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EasyFlex Family of DIY Painted Screen Solutions

35K views 234 replies 31 participants last post by  benven 
#1 ·
NOTICE: This thread will no longer be supported! Any proven useful information has been transfered to the sticky Beginner's Guide To Simple DIY Painted Screens .



The tints that were developed as a part of this thread were shown to be way off neutral gray.


The Pearl Clear Coats were also determined to shift the color too much. In addition most people are not able to apply the pearl clear coats without getting streaks.
 
#202 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/12616858


Hi footfault,


For your dedicated theater and properly directed ambient light I would suggest you really look t the Designer White laminate.

Hi Tiddler,


I appreciate your response, thanks for taking the time...


I'll definitely take a look at designer white.


However, recommending a white screen seems a little curious since so many reviews of the Mit 4900 projector recommend a gray screen to increase blacks that are reportedly a little week. Sorry if not putting my projector info in my post above miss lead you. It may turn out the blacks are just fine for me and so is a white screen (w contrast boost) - blacks the Mit 4900 are reportedly better than my old projector and they seemed fine to us on a (106) smaller gray screen. I imagine after I read the Designer White thread I will find a formula that will add a little contrast/blacks. So it sounds like the answer to finding an ideal screen is to start with this Designer White screen. Later, if we like, we can make up some sample screen sheets (gray, silver..) and see if we like them better. We tried this with our old projector, different white and gray samples, and couldn't see much of a difference. Am I on the right track?


One last thing, do you know why children dislike it when Santa is no longer around? Because they prefer his presents? (my nephew's)



Thanks...


Happy holidays
 
#203 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpmaker /forum/post/12619579


I can only comment on the Silver Fire mix. My recommendation is to not go with this advanced formula if this is your first screen and you don't intend on making painting projection screens a hobby.


While I think creating a gray screen paint by mixing red, green and blue tints (which Silver Fire does) is a good theory, I'm not sure the benefits are worth it over a gray paint based on lamp black.


I think the 3 component mixes of Silver Fire are meant to make adjusting the formula easier if the need arises. The first two component mixes are simple to make, the Color Component mix isn't. These paints, especially the green, are thick and stick to whatever you are using to measure them, and due to the small amount of paint used, this can make a noticeable difference in the color of the final mix.


Of the 3 different samples of Silver Fire to be tested with a spectrophotometer, they all showed significant color differences.


I'm not saying Silver Fire is bad, just that it is an advanced, perhaps even somewhat experimental, mix and, IMO, isn't for someone who just wants to make a single screen and be done with it.


I made a Silver Fire screen, but due to a back injury I haven't gotten it up yet.

I am definitely not an expert and the Silver Fire sounds not only too complicated but more challenge than I want to take on.


Thanks for your advise...
 
#204 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by footfault /forum/post/12619880


I am definitely not an expert and the Silver Fire sounds not only too complicated but more challenge than I want to take on.


Thanks for your advise...

No problem. that's what we're all here for, to help and be helped.



If you think you might end up painting the laminate Tiddler recommended (to get a gray), I think I, personally, would go with paint to start with and use a much cheaper substrate to paint. Using laminate as a paintable substrate is the expensive way to go.



You could get something like hardboard (1/8 inch or 1/4 inch depending on how you want to mount it) and paint it with one of the recommended white paints and give that a shot. If you need some contrast improvement then go with a gray paint, if still more contrast is needed try adding a poly top coat. If still more contrast is needed then use a darker gray for the next coat. You get the drift. This same procedure could be followed if you are painting a wall instead of a piece of hardboard or other substrate.
 
#205 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by footfault /forum/post/12619779


Hi Tiddler,


I appreciate your response, thanks for taking the time...


I'll definitely take a look at designer white.


However, recommending a white screen seems a little curious since so many reviews of the Mit 4900 projector recommend a gray screen to increase blacks that are reportedly a little week. Sorry if not putting my projector info in my post above miss lead you. It may turn out the blacks are just fine for me and so is a white screen (w contrast boost) - blacks the Mit 4900 are reportedly better than my old projector and they seemed fine to us on a (106) smaller gray screen. I imagine after I read the Designer White thread I will find a formula that will add a little contrast/blacks. So it sounds like the answer to finding an ideal screen is to start with this Designer White screen. Later, if we like, we can make up some sample screen sheets (gray, silver..) and see if we like them better. We tried this with our old projector, different white and gray samples, and couldn't see much of a difference. Am I on the right track?


One last thing, do you know why children dislike it when Santa is no longer around? Because they prefer his presents? (my nephew's)



Thanks...


Happy holidays

I'm not familiar with the Mit 4900. If people are suggesting a gray screen then that is probably what you want.
 
#206 ·
I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.
 
#207 ·
I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.
 
#208 ·
I no longer recommend using pearl clear coats.
 
#209 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/12660942

Tiddler's Thoughts On Pearl Clear Coats


I have done a lot of tinkering with the pearl paints available from local stores like Michaels and Wal-Mart. I do believe I determined the best choice of pearl products to use for our purposes. If I could have located an easy source of metallic micro spheres or something of that nature I would have tried using it instead.


The pearl clear coat options presented in this thread do work and have served many people well. They have been especially effective for people with older or DIY projectors with low lumen output. For those users, the added effort seems well worth the effort.


For many beginners with current projectors like the Mitsubishi and Panasonic crop of high output projectors, I think a good quality matte finish paint is all that they should be using to implement a DIY Painted Screen.


The Pearl Clear Coats can be a bit tricky to apply without getting streaks and do tend to lighten the overall shade of gray. They do boost gain and in turn reduce viewing cone some. The benefit of them over a similar shade of good quality matte paint is marginal. With higher lumen projectors I also suspect you run the risk of hot spotting.


I have an Optoma HD72 projector that puts out 395 video optimized lumens. My current screen is probably a bit darker than ideal. I used the Behr Exterior ULTRA UPW Flat paint with a near neutral gray tint based on the Xrite N7 tint passed on to me by wbassett. I have a second retractable that I will also paint but a bit lighter shade.


I believe it was bub16415 who said that his goal was a screen that seemed to disappear when in use. I now know what he means by that. With this simple one can solution (near neutral gray with the right finish) I find I don't even think about the screen when watching a movie anymore. I've never really been sure what people meant by pop in the image. I have noticed a kind of shimmering effect in some paint samples. Those with high amounts of mica tend to do this with very bright parts of the image. If this is what people mean by "pop" or "plasma like" then they have been striving for something unnatural in the image.


So while I have presented several options in this thread, with an effort not to show any preference, I feel I should point out that in my opinion, the best paint solution for those of us with projectors capable of 400 lumens or more is simply a good quality matte paint. If you want to have a gray screen then use a neutral or near neutral gray tint.


I'm just pointing out that most of us really don't need a pearl clear coat and should consider very carefully if we want the extra effort and added risk of not producing a uniform screen surface.


As far as durability goes, the scrubable matte paints may actually be a better choice than a poly top coat. If you scratch a poly top coat it is impossible to touch it up. Scratch a matte paint and you can touch it up by dabbing on some paint with a foam brush. If you screw up a pearl or poly top coat you have to start over with a gray base. In the end I m not sure the effort and risk is worth the benefit if you have a newer projector.


There do seem to be some promising developments in the DIY Screen community with regards to an enhancing additive for the basic matte wall paint. Preliminary reports suggest it is a screen that looks like an N7 gray but produces whites like an N9 gray. As soon as that is made public I will be the first one to refer you folks to it. In the meantime unless you really need a higher gain screen I strongly suggest you start off with a good quality matte finish paint. IMHO that is the best DIY painted screen solution for most people with a fairly current HT or presentation projector.


For those that do need to squeeze as much gain as possible out of their screen I stand behind the pearl clear coat solutions presented in this thread. They are my best offering based on products available from local retailers in most parts of North America. While I do acknowledge that the pearl clear coats or simple polyurethane top coat may have some effect on the color or shade of the screen, I have not seen or been able to demonstrate any shift significant enough as to make these solutions unacceptable.

Nice post Todd.


And just to put the above in terms of Foot lamberts. Assuming most of the world wants a screen in the 16:9 AR and of a size between 90 and 110 inches. Has a room that is fairly good with light control. So take the larger screen size 110 or 54x96 that's 36 sq ft of screen needing illumination. 400 lumens / 36 sq ft = 11 FL on the brighter end of the newer units I'm sure 500 lumens is very obtainable 500 lumens / 36 = 13.8 FL right in the middle of the widely thought perfect range for a movie like experience. So a 1.0 gain screen is not so far off the mark for most people.


With the fairly light neutral grays N8 , N9 etc the light loss from the gray can be offset with a little controlled sheen from a poly topcoat or from a poly blend into the gray paint as I did. And bring us back up to the 1.0 area in gain.


I had an AVS member bring his new 1080p projector over to my place a few weeks ago to test it against my screen. My first thoughts were my screen being selected around a 2000 lumen presentation projector might not fair well with this new high tech projector. But just the opposite happened, even in econo mode his projector did a great job on my less than 1.0 gray.


I don't know if all the new offering have this kind of horsepower but this one did so they are out there. My feeling was based around my eyes and having viewed my setup for a year and a half and watched bulb dimming etc. that this new projector was easily in the 500 plus lumen area with movie content playing and would as you posted above need nothing more than the most basic of screens. He brought with him a full size piece of BOC we also tested and with the excellent CR numbers on his projector the image was every bit as good on BOC as with my neutral gray screen. That was when all my light control measures were in place. As we added in ambient lighting the gray as expected took a slight leg up but it wasn't huge. If I had to guess by eye maybe 2 or 3% improvement in PQ. And it's hard to guess percentages up on the excellent end of the PQ range.


The BOC did provide a very screen-less look to the image and based around simplicity I told him if it were me in his light control room I would frame the BOC and enjoy it for a while and maybe paint it down the road if he wanted that slight improvement.
 
#210 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/12660942

Tiddler's Thoughts On Pearl Clear Coats

For many beginners with current projectors like the Mitsubishi and Panasonic crop of high output projectors, I think a good quality matte finish paint is all that they should be using to implement a DIY Painted Screen.


The Pearl Clear Coats can be a bit tricky to apply without getting streaks and do tend to lighten the overall shade of gray. They do boost gain and in turn reduce viewing cone some. The benefit of them over a similar shade of good quality matte paint is marginal. With higher lumen projectors I also suspect you run the risk of hot spotting.

Thanks so much for your help in putting together this guide! I am a beginner and found it extremely helpful. I struggled with whether or not to try the Pearl coat. I like to watch shows during the day with some outside light coming in and at night with lights on. I have a Panny AE900 so lumens are not a problem. I decided to try two coats of N8 formula plus 2 coats of Poly with Pearl. I finished this past weekend after reading this thread multiple times. The grey color was a huge improvement over my old white. The Pearl coat did make it brighter. I probably did not need that though with my projector and I am not sure it made ambient light issues any better which was my intent.


I watched the videos on downrolling and tried my best but roller painting is obviously not my thing. After two coats, I have streaks. They are not terrible but noticeable to a novice like me when the screen is a bright consistent color (all snow in Ice Age for example). After reading this post, I think I should have not used the Pearl but that is how we learn. Would putting a third coat of Poly and/or Poly with Pearl help or hurt to get rid of the streaks? Otherwise, can I just put one coat of the basic grey matte back on top of the Pearl to go back to screen without Pearl coat?


Thanks again so much for your work on this forum. On a separate topic, I made some modifications to my recessed lighting based on your 'bad, better, best' tips in beginner guide. The tips seemed obvious once I read them but it triggered me to make some immediate and significant improvements to my room by adjusting my recessed lights and changing out baffles per the tips. Thanks!
 
#211 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by skskarda /forum/post/12670224


Thanks so much for your help in putting together this guide! I am a beginner and found it extremely helpful. I struggled with whether or not to try the Pearl coat. I like to watch shows during the day with some outside light coming in and at night with lights on. I have a Panny AE900 so lumens are not a problem. I decided to try two coats of N8 formula plus 2 coats of Poly with Pearl. I finished this past weekend after reading this thread multiple times. The grey color was a huge improvement over my old white. The Pearl coat did make it brighter. I probably did not need that though with my projector and I am not sure it made ambient light issues any better which was my intent.


I watched the videos on downrolling and tried my best but roller painting is obviously not my thing. After two coats, I have streaks. They are not terrible but noticeable to a novice like me when the screen is a bright consistent color (all snow in Ice Age for example). After reading this post, I think I should have not used the Pearl but that is how we learn. Would putting a third coat of Poly and/or Poly with Pearl help or hurt to get rid of the streaks? Otherwise, can I just put one coat of the basic grey matte back on top of the Pearl to go back to screen without Pearl coat?


Thanks again so much for your work on this forum. On a separate topic, I made some modifications to my recessed lighting based on your 'bad, better, best' tips in beginner guide. The tips seemed obvious once I read them but it triggered me to make some immediate and significant improvements to my room by adjusting my recessed lights and changing out baffles per the tips. Thanks!

Yes you should be able to simply paint over the pearl clear coat. I would recommend two coats if you have the paint.
 
#212 ·
The EasyFlex solution is basically dead now but I ran across something this morning that may at least represent a tiny bit of vindication for me.


From the Neutral Gray thread, Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White screen material has an RGB of 203 205 200.


From the Behr Color Laboratory testing of the original EF06 (2:1) tint, prof55 measured 203 205 201, rfisher measured 205 206 201, and finally the Behr Color Lab measured 205 206 200. Nat bad for someone limited to using my eyes to try to match the color of the Da-Lite HCMW. From what I have seen of comparisons of proprietary tint variances, I am well within the error band.


The two coats of Behr Matte Polyurethane had the following effect:

prof55 - rfisher- Behr

203 205 201 - 205 206 201 - 205 206 200 == EF06

200 202 197 - 203 204 197 - 205 206 199 == EF06 + 2 Coats Behr Polyurethane #780

-3 -3 -4 . . . . -2 -2 -4 . . . . 0 0 -1 . . . . == shift
There is quite a variation between the readings. Behr seems to be the odd man out with the least change due to the polyurethane top coat. Unfortunately I did not send them any pearl clear coat samples. At the time I did not feel it would be appropriate to ask the Behr Color Lab to do this type of testing on products from another manufacturer.


So while the color balance of the EasyFlex tints may have been way off neutral gray they were actually what I had been aiming for and that was the Da-Lite HCMW. In fact when I compared the EF tint with a pearl clear coat to my buddies Da-Lite HCMW it was hard to tell them apart other than a slight difference in shade.


This is not meant as any kind of argument in favor of using the original EF tints or pearl clear coats. Simply an explanation of how I was lead astray by using the Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White screen material as a guideline of what to strive for. If the white coats at Da-Lite can be this wrong then I guess I should not feel too bad, Eh!?
 
#213 ·
tiddler (or anyone that might help),


I have a new pulldown Elite white screen (rated 1.1) and I really hate the sparkly hotspotting it creates
. It gets in the way of the picture to me. The slight sheen on top of the texture most likely is the culprit.


Would painting over it with one of the Behr white paints get rid of the sparkles? I really don't want to mess with the clear solutions as it might bring uniformity problems. Being a pulldown, will the paint chip off over time? What do you think could be the fix?
 
#214 ·
After a chat with HDholic that mech was able to join in on we concluded that since his screen is white and he wants it to remain white but just wants to kill the sheen, he should consider the Behr or Valspar clear polyurethanes. The Behr being matte and the Valspar being flat.


HDholic is goint to try applying the polyurethane to something vinyl and see how well it adheres. This is new ground! Hope it works out and HDholic can fix his sheen problem.
 
#215 ·
I would say to stay away from the Behr poly. It does go on yellow and gets yellower over time. On a white screen, you will notice it. The Valspar product is not a polyurethane. It is called a clear protector. I am assuming that it is an acrylic emulsion much like some of the artists clear mediums. It goes on very clear, and flat, and stays clear. I am experimenting with this product right now. It is a bit thick; paint like viscosity. But workable. A little water may help you.


Why don't you just repaint it with Behr 4850? It's the nicest white paint that I have used. It is the base for my latest screen , CGIV. It is a nicer white than UPW or Kilz and will probably be in the same gain range if not better. And it comes in a flat or satin sheen. The flat is nice and flat, so no hotspotting.


Good luck!
 
#217 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by benven /forum/post/12840201


I would say to stay away from the Behr poly. It does go on yellow and gets yellower over time. On a white screen, you will notice it. The Valspar product is not a polyurethane. It is called a clear protector. I am assuming that it is an acrylic emulsion much like some of the artists clear mediums. It goes on very clear, and flat, and stays clear. I am experimenting with this product right now. It is a bit thick; paint like viscosity. But workable. A little water may help you.


Why don't you just repaint it with Behr 4850? It's the nicest white paint that I have used. It is the base for my latest screen , CGIV. It is a nicer white than UPW or Kilz and will probably be in the same gain range if not better. And it comes in a flat or satin sheen. The flat is nice and flat, so no hotspotting.


Good luck!

Ben, have you tried the satin?

I would expect it to hot spot. Is it less sheen than eggshell?
 
#218 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic /forum/post/12840372


What are you applying Valspar on? I keep going a bit back and forth about using the clear products or the white Behr paint. Have you painted a manufactured screen b4?

Benven uses Valspar as a clear medium for his metallic powder clear coat. I'm not sure what he paints for his own screen, but he has sent me a sample painted on some white vinyl.


I have painted two retractable screens. Since I wanted to go gray I used paint. I have also tried paint with a polyurethane top coat.


In your case, HDholic, you have a white screen with too much sheen, and you don't want to go gray so it was suggested to try the Behr 780 on some white hardboard to see what you think. The Valspar flat clear protector sounds like it is clearer (less yellow) than the Behr 780. The behr 780 will definitely make a bright white screen look more yellow or like a warm white.


So basically you have two choices, apply a clear flat coating to kill the sheen, or apply a matte white paint to cover the screen surface completely.


From what benven has said the Valspar is thicker than a polyurethane. I have not used it so I have no idea how well it spreads or levels. If it is anything like the Behr 780 then it will be very easy to apply and get a very nice uniform finish. Much easier than paint usually is. Unfortunately there are no Lowes in my area so I cannot give it a try. The other concern I have with the polyurethane or clear protector is how well it will adhere to the vinyl screen material.


The Behr Ext. ULTRA UPW Flat 4850 that Benven mentioned, is what I am using to paint retractable screens. I find it spreads and levels very well, leaving a nice smooth matte finish. It is self-priming so that eliminates a layer of primer. Over a white screen you may even get away with one coat. Even if you do apply two coats the paint layer is surprisingly thin. Assuming you have read/watched the Basic Roller Painting Instructions and are able to apply the paint well then you will end up with a very nice matte white screen. No unwanted sheen or texture. I am also very confident that it will adhere to the screen as long as you clean it well with Windex with ammonia.


Regardless of whether you use paint or a clear flat coating, watching and implementing the screen painting instruction will determine your outcome. It is not difficult but I think most people apply too much pressure when roller painting and that leads to tracks. The secret is to just apply enough pressure to make the roller roll.


I have been logging my most recent retractable screen painting work in the thread Retractable Screen Painting - The Final Development and that is where you will see photos of how I do it. This weekend I will be painting the screen area and that is what will be of most interest to you. There will be more photos and comments.


For a breif summary of painting retractable screens, take a look at the Painting Retractable Screens chapter-post in the Beginner's Guide.


The biggest difference between painting a fixed rigid substrate screen and a retractable screen is the hold of the bottom bar.


Click image to enlarge.



Then it is just like painting a wall screen.




The fact that you cannot put a lot of pressure on the roller, actually will prevent you from creating roller tracks.


I guess the bottom line is that the Behr 4850 paint is the known and proven solution, in the short term. I have only had painted retractable screens for a year. I have no idea what these screen will be like in 5 years. Applying the Valspar Clear Protector is a complete unknown, unless you opt to do some experimenting and convince yourself to try it on your screen.
 
#220 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic /forum/post/12845750


tiddler, what screen is that you painted, Dalite? I'm thinking about trying the Valspar as well. Anyone know the SKU or part # for this item from Lowes?

That is an EluneVision screen from EastPorters. They are made in China and there is speculation they may be made in the same factory as the Elite screens.


The Valspar product is call Flat Clear Protector For Faux Finishes. I can't find it on the Lowes website. The website has the American Traditions Clear Protector though.
 
#221 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDholic /forum/post/12840372


What are you applying Valspar on? I keep going a bit back and forth about using the clear products or the white Behr paint. Have you painted a manufactured screen b4?

Hi HDholic,


I am applying the Valspar on test panels made of foamboard or MDF. Previously painted panels. I have never tried it on a manufacturer screen. If yuo are going down that road I would recommend getting some vinyl fabric and doing some test swatches.


tiddler, I have tried the satin. It does hotspot. But not alot. A 50/50 mix of the flat and the satin would be just the trick
 
#223 ·
Hi HD, I live in Canada so the number may be different. I am using Valspar 64675 Clear Protector. I beleive it is the same as the American Traditions that mission313 and 1Time have used in the past.


AS for how it works, please see the attached jpeg of my measurements in HCFR. The dotted line is the reference file, ie no topcoat CGIV. AS you can see the topcoated CGIV panel is a little better in the gray scale. A little better in luminance. You won't see the luminance number in the screen shot. Don't worry about the topend becuase my previous screen had a red push and I had to reduce red gain. I can no longer get into the service menu so I can't make that adjustment at the top end. The only adjustments I made to get my gray scale like that were user menu related. BenQ PB6200 is the projector.
 
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