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Displays that support 1080p/24 signal at multiplies of the original frame rate

145K views 350 replies 111 participants last post by  HDTV1080P24 
#1 ·
#177 ·
What about the 47PFL9732 and/or the 47PFL7403/7603?
 
#178 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ausmusj /forum/post/13806386


What about the 47PFL9732 and/or the 47PFL7403/7603?
This list only includes US models. The models you provided are European or international models. I searched for information on the Philips models you listed but could not find any reviews on how the 1080P/24 feature works. I do not know if the 120HZ Philips flat panels are true 5:5 pulldown. They may or may not bypass the 3:2 pulldown process.
 
#179 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JadedRaverLA /forum/post/13803748


These two displays do not offer "motion enhancer," despite some confusing wording on the product pages. Sony tech support (and some Amazon product pages) claim that these smaller XBR6s can correctly handle 24p material and are 120hz sets, though they don't have "motion enhancer" and aren't advertised as 120hz sets.


There's a debate still going on in the owners thread as to what exactly these sets do, but you might want to qualify these as unconfirmed for the time being.
Did Sony change their specs on the XBR6 models before final release? According to this link they were suppose to be 120HZ with the option to turn off motionflow. Thanks for the info.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6535289.html?desc=topstory
 
#181 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 /forum/post/13806958

Did Sony change their specs on the XBR6 models before final release? According to this link they were suppose to be 120HZ with the option to turn off motionflow. Thanks for the info.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6535289.html?desc=topstory

The 40" and above XBR6s are completely different from the 32" and 37" models. The 40" and above XBR6s, XBR7s, XBR8s, W series, and Z series all are 120Hz with motionflow. All S series, V series, and the 32" and 37" XBR6s, are listed as offering "True 24p input" but they don't have motionflow and aren't generally advertised as being 120Hz, so there is still a fair amount of debate as to how they are handling 24p input.


I read the Twice article... it seems to be cofused. The leaked Sony 2008 Bravia spec sheets only mentioned 120Hz and motionflow on the XBR6s that were 40"+. Also, the 32" and 37" XBR6 models ship with the same manual as the V-series... and no mention is made of 120Hz or motionflow.
 
#182 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 /forum/post/13806785

This list only includes US models. The models you provided are European or international models. I searched for information on the Philips models you listed but could not find any reviews on how the 1080P/24 feature works. I do not know if the 120HZ Philips flat panels are true 5:5 pulldown. They may or may not bypass the 3:2 pulldown process.

Actually, they are US models - the 9732 isn't as readily available in the US anymore (it was an 07 model, moved out for the 08 models), but is still purchasable in the US. The 7403/7603 series are the new 08 models - the 42PFL7403 (42" version, but should be the same specs as the 47") is available now, with the 47" 7403 and the 7603 (same models, but with the Ambilight feature) coming Real Soon Now.


So, for two (current) researchable models, it should be the 47PFL9732, and the 42PFL7403.
 
#183 ·
ts.enigma -- According to Art Feierman ( http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq...agequality.php - last paragraph) the BenQ W5000 does support 1080p/24, but no frequency mulitple is mentioned:
Quote:
Fortunately, the W5000 like most new 1080p projectors supports 1080p/24fps, which eliminates the need for 3:2 pull-down, and thus, eliminates the judder.

The PJC review says the same. However, the W5000 only has HDMI 1.2 inputs, not HDMI 1.3, FWIW.
 
#184 ·
The new Pioneers should be added to the list.


Pioneer PDP-5020FD (72HZ)

Pioneer PDP-6020FD (72HZ)

Pioneer PRO-111FD (72HZ)

Pioneer PRO-151FD (72HZ)

Pioneer PRO-101FD (72HZ)

Pioneer PRO-141FD (72HZ)


They're certain to have the same 72hz mode the 2007 Pioneers use.
 
#185 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ausmusj /forum/post/13808368


Actually, they are US models - the 9732 isn't as readily available in the US anymore (it was an 07 model, moved out for the 08 models), but is still purchasable in the US. The 7403/7603 series are the new 08 models - the 42PFL7403 (42" version, but should be the same specs as the 47") is available now, with the 47" 7403 and the 7603 (same models, but with the Ambilight feature) coming Real Soon Now.


So, for two (current) researchable models, it should be the 47PFL9732, and the 42PFL7403.

Thanks for the information. The world is changing fast. I see now that Philips no longer sales TV's in North America. I was wondering why I could not find any Philips TV's at the local retail stores anymore. Now I know why. A couple of years ago Philips HDTV's could be found at Walmart.

http://gizmodo.com/377355/philips-wo...merica-anymore


So now one looking for a Philips TV might want to purchase the lower cost Funai brand. Electronics keep getting cheaper I just hope quality does not suffer too much.
 
#186 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDPeeT /forum/post/13818806


The new Pioneers should be added to the list.


Pioneer PDP-5020FD (72HZ)

Pioneer PDP-6020FD (72HZ)

Pioneer PRO-111FD (72HZ)

Pioneer PRO-151FD (72HZ)

Pioneer PRO-101FD (72HZ)

Pioneer PRO-141FD (72HZ)


They're certain to have the same 72hz mode the 2007 Pioneers use.
Thanks for the information. The list will be updated soon with the info. Good to see some new Pioneers that offer 5X deeper blacks compared to the 2007 line. I also see that Pioneer has a LCOS rear projector with deeper blacks which is based on the high-end JVC projectors.

http://gizmodo.com/387881/pioneers-2008-kuro-line-thinner-blacker-plasmas-and-an-lcos-projector-but-no-lcds
 
#187 ·
What about the Sharp AQUOS LC46SE94U?
 
#189 ·
** Important update to the main list **




The main purpose of this list is to provide an easy to use reference tool for those considering to purchasing a new 1080P display that offers true film quality 1080P/24 refresh rates. In order to make the list more useful and accurate I have created 3 separate lists.

List number 1: Will only list the current in production or coming soon true 1080P/24 displays that have a documented manufactories spec sheet, instruction manual, or professional review that mentions the multiplies of the 24fps feature. Now people searching for a new display can view just the current in production or coming soon models.

List number 2: Below the first list is the second list which contains all the discontinued true 1080P/24 displays. On this list one can search the Internet or retail stores for new or used bargain prices on clearance displays that offer true 24fps refresh rates.

List number 3: This list which is below list number 2 contains 1080P displays that are pending to be added to list number 1 or 2. The manufactories spec sheet or professional review is not available yet that documents the true 1080P/24 feature.

Remember these 3 lists are not 100% accurate and items can be removed or added as more information is learned about a display. The most accurate displays on the list will be the ones that have professional reviews written when the link is clicked on.
 
#194 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitry /forum/post/13838017


I can't see any mention of the Samsung HLxxA650 & HL61A750 rear projector models, whether positive or negative. My understanding is that these are 120Hz sets, so there's a chance for the proper 24p display. Any word?
I do not know for sure how those rear projectors from Samsung handle 1080P/24.
So far all the reviews on all Samsung rear projectors and Mitsubishi rear projectors have either not mentioned how 1080P/24 is handled or the reviews mentioned that they use a 3:2 pulldown process which has no benefit to 1080P/24. To my knowledge Samsung and Mitsubishi are the only companies left making rear projectors. I prefer rear projectors over LCD flat screens since in general they have a better picture quality. Samsung and Mitsubishi need to start offering the multiplies of the original frame method for rear projectors or some BLU-RAY owners will choose LCD screens. As the price of LCD flat screens keeps falling one day the LCD flat screen price might be cheaper or the same price as a rear projector. When and if that happens perhaps rear projectors all together will no longer be made anymore. I would not be surprised to see rear projectors discontinued in 2-3 years due to low consumer demand. I hope that does not happen since I prefer the picture quality of rear projectors over most LCD screens.
 
#195 ·
Mitsubishi HC6000 LCD front projector




In the June 2008 Sound and Vision magazine on page 62 and 63 there is a detailed review on this front projector. On page 62 it mentions the following quote:
The HC6000 will also accept a 24p input from a Blu-ray Disc player, automatically frame-doubling the signal to a 48P display
 
#196 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 /forum/post/13859064

I do not know for sure how those rear projectors from Samsung handle 1080P/24.
So far all the reviews on all Samsung rear projectors and Mitsubishi rear projectors have either not mentioned how 1080P/24 is handled or the reviews mentioned that they use a 3:2 pulldown process which has no benefit to 1080P/24. To my knowledge Samsung and Mitsubishi are the only companies left making rear projectors. I prefer rear projectors over LCD flat screens since in general they have a better picture quality. Samsung and Mitsubishi need to start offering the multiplies of the original frame method for rear projectors or some BLU-RAY owners will choose LCD screens. As the price of LCD flat screens keeps falling one day the LCD flat screen price might be cheaper or the same price as a rear projector. When and if that happens perhaps rear projectors all together will no longer be made anymore. I would not be surprised to see rear projectors discontinued in 2-3 years due to low consumer demand. I hope that does not happen since I prefer the picture quality of rear projectors over most LCD screens.

Thanks for reply. Yes, I too prefer the rear projectors and was really hoping that since Samsung LCD screens with the same series (A650) handle it correctly that maybe their DLP do it as well. Is there any way to test it or are we at the mercy of the reviewers?
 
#197 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmitry /forum/post/13861266


Thanks for reply. Yes, I too prefer the rear projectors and was really hoping that since Samsung LCD screens with the same series (A650) handle it correctly that maybe their DLP do it as well. Is there any way to test it or are we at the mercy of the reviewers?

There should be a way to test this with proper hardware and software and test patterns.
 
#198 ·
JVC DLA-RS1 and DLA-RS2 LCOS Front Projectors have been added to the list




The JVC Front projectors are some of the best Front Projectors on the market with excellent black levels and contrast ratio's. All of JVC's LCOS Front projectors refresh 1080P/24 sources at 96HZ and 60HZ signals are refreshed at 120HZ.

The DLA-HD1 and DLA-RS1 is almost exactly the same projector.
Quote
According to the company, they differ in only two ways. The RS1 is sold through JVC's professional channels, and the HD1 is sold through consumer outlets. In addition, the HD1 is black and silver (see photo) and the RD1 is all black. But with respect to features, performance, and price, the projectors are identical.

http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/207jvchd1/index.html


The DLA-HD100 and DLA-RS2 is almost exactly the same projector.
Quote
Priced at $8000, the next-gen DLA-HD100 has an identical twin in the DLA-RS2, which differs only in that it is distributed through professional rather than consumer channels. The match between these models is even closer than between the DLA-HD1 and RS1 (the pro version of the HD1). I will refer only to the HD100 in the remainder of this review since that's the model I looked at. But all comments should apply equally to the RS2.

http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/508jvcpro/
 
#199 ·
Review on Samsung LN52A650 (5:5 120HZ LCD display)



The Samsung 650 series web link on the main list has been updated to include the CNET review. The Samsung LCD display will refresh 1080P/24 material at 120HZ using true 5:5 pulldown when Auto Motion Plus is turned off. When AMP is off each 24fps frame is repeated 5X times until 120HZ is reached.
Just because this set and other LCD screens on the list do true 5:5 pulldown it does not mean they perform the pulldown perfectly. In the CNET review the reviewer could not tell the difference between 1080P/24 and 1080P/60 with the source material they were using on both Sony and Samsung 120HZ LCD displays. If one watches a lot of BLU-RAY movies on a high-end JVC or Sony LCOS Front Projector or a Pioneer Plasma screen one can see the difference in fast moving scenes and camera panning shots. The judder is greatly reduced on some displays and the image has a more film like quality compared to smooth 60HZ video.
Displays that do true 48HZ, 72HZ, 96HZ, and 120HZ refresh rates are not all created equal. The specs on paper might look good but in reality some displays do to response time limitations or other reasons do not perform good in real world performance. A good 48HZ LCD Front Projector, 48HZ DLP Front projector, and 96HZ LCOS Front projector many times reduces the judder better then a 120HZ LCD flat panel screen.
To some this 1080P/24 and 1080P/60 feature is a minor feature since most of us all have been watching 60HZ 3:2 pulldown for most of our lives. I have seen the film like quality that good 1080P/24 displays have and I prefer it too displays that do not offer that feature. This feature is so important that the BLU-RAY format places 24fps on all film based BLU-RAY discs. Many professional videotape sources are also 1080P/24. When one is in the market to purchase a new 1080P display it makes since to get a display that handles 1080P/24 correctly.

Quote from CNET review

"We also turned AMP off, along with the Sony's de-judder processing, and switched our PS3 to 1080p/24 mode. We really couldn't tell the difference between 1080p/24 and 1080p/60 on either of the sets, so we suspect they don't perform the perfect 5x conversion from 24 frames to 120. Samsung's engineers (along with Sony's) claim the 52LN650 can perform this conversion, but if so, it doesn't make much difference.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-ln52a650/4505-6482_7-32887597.html?tag=prod.txt.1
 
#200 ·
The following Sony LCD screens have been moved from list number 1 to list number 3 for further verification


In a prior news release it was mentioned that the Sony KDL-XBR6 series had Motion Enhancer technology with 120HZ. It appears that the specs have changed before the product was released. According to Sony’s instruction manual’s motion Enhancer and 120HZ is not even an option offered on the new Sony’s. The following displays might still have 120HZ but it is not mentioned in the instruction manual. It does mention Cinemotion feature which perhaps might refresh 1080P/24 at 48HZ or 120HZ. The tread in electronics seems to be moving toward the Walmart society where the goal is to eliminate expensive nice features in order to offer a product that is lower cost to purchase. Hopefully Sony did not drop 120HZ from the following new models in order to offer a cheaper price product. 120HZ is needed to reduce motion blur on LCD. Some companies were planning on coming out with 240HZ LCD’s that even greatly improve on LCD motion blur. If 240HZ LCD’s make it to market it will be interesting to see if they can start to out perform Plasma screens in some areas.

Now located on list number 3 pending a review or official spec sheet

Sony KDL-37XBR6 (1080P/24 might be refreshed correctly with Cinemotion)
Sony KDL-32XBR6 (1080P/24 might be refreshed correctly with Cinemotion)
 
#201 ·


However the z series is their supposed top of the range, above the x and xf series, and the specs for the z series explicitly state 24fps, 5:5 pulldown, as you can see here

http://www.home-entertainment.toshib...d?opendocument
 
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