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#1 ·

This thread is for all discussion related to burn in, IR, and break in questions/concerns/info on flat panel TVs. Please post all discussions on this topic in this thread.


With today's new technologies (2007 and beyond) burn in is nearly non-existence if users use common sense. While still possible, it is highly unlikely if common care is used. A lot of newer TV's (i.e. Pioneer's 8th gen sets) have new technologies that help to also prevent IR. Combined with break in and common care/use, IR can be dramatically reduced if not even eliminated completely.


This thread is for the Plasma and LCD Flat Panel Displays Forum: there is a SEPARATE thread for RPTV


Download Break In DVD (SVCD)

 

New information added on 12/6/12:

 

This was from 2007.

 

"THE REALIZATION of high-quality plasma display panels (PDPs) requires an urgent solution to the image sticking or image retention problems induced in PDP cells after strong sus-tain discharges have been repeatedly produced during a sustain period [1]–[9]. Image retention means temporal image sticking that is easily recoverable through minor treatment, whereas image sticking is permanent and not recoverable even with severe treatment."


As you see, they talk about Image Retention (as we know it) and that is "temporal image sticking" whereas "image sticking" (without a qualifier) is what we here term Burn-in. Now if you read the fix was 100 hours of full white but at a level much higher than we can generate with our TVs. However, what they threw at the tv to get the alleged permanent image sticking (and in the abstract they generated what they believed was permanent image sticking) was 500 hours continuously at an insanely high level (far higher levels than any current plasma can reach even with the smallest of windows). So while a full white screen can get nowhere near the levels what they used for the "fix" by the same token what they used to generate the alleged permanent image sticking is also at a far higher level attainable with our TVs (and this was essentially 3 weeks continuous of the same image (abuse which we could not remotely duplicate in terms of brightness level).

 

http://pde.knu.ac.kr/publication/recovery%20of%20boundary%20image%20sticking%20using%20aging%20discharge%20in%20AC%20plasma%20display%20panel.pdf

 
 
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#352 ·
I've had the Panny pz85U for about 2 weeks now, turned settings down, have avoided black bars and gamed only slightly.


I only started noticing IR about 3 days ago. The Playstation 3 Xbar will ghost after only a few seconds on the screen, but that fades within minutes. Menus also ghost quickly but fade out in 5 minutes or less.


However I watched some of the NBA playoffs last night on TNT and their giant scoreboard in the bottom left corner is visible on my screen now, with one caveat: it cannot be seen unless you're a few inches away from an all black screen. It doesn't show if there is any content on the screen, only on an all black screen and only at really short distances. This makes me feel less compelled to abandon ship and take it back but it did freak me out. It still isn't gone after using the white bar and a few hours worth of full screen video content.


I only watched 45 minutes tops of the game, so the fact that it happened worries me. During football season I'm known to watch 9 or more hours of football on saturdays. If a TNT scoreboard for 45 minutes causes this kind of IR now, my football watching plans are going to have to change with regards to this set.


I just hope it fades completely. On the one hand, I can't see it under most normal viewing situations so I sort of wonder if it's a huge deal at all, on the other hand I know it is there and it can happen quickly, so does that mean it could be worse in the future?


I'm not sure. I will say that all other aspects of this TV have been great though.
 
#353 ·
I've had my px80 for about two weeks, and I've noticed IR to be disappearing more and more quickly as time goes on. I'm at the 100 hour mark, but I'm going to be careful with it for the next hundred or so just to be safe.


One question I have that I haven't seen addressed in these threads (unless I missed it) has to do with phosphor aging. I loooove movies. I will watch probably 4-6 movies per week. Most movies have the black bars...so, over time will my TV age improperly in certain spots? I mean like 5 years from now, will the place where the black bars are be even brighter than the middle? Will the middle of my screen 'age' faster, thus giving me an uneven picture a few years down the road?


So far I've only noticed some slight ghosting, and it always goes away within a few minutes. I'm probably being anal about this, but this is my first expensive TV and I want to be as careful as possible and I want to get as much life out of this bad boy as I possibly can.


I got the DVD break-in disc and I'm going to run it 4-5 hours per day for the next few weeks to further the break-in process.


Any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks!
 
#354 ·
Guys,


getting one of the new "3D Ready" 50" plasmas by Samsung burn-in worries me a lot.

Especially since i am hardcore gamer - and i am NOT talking about 4-5hrs/day. I am talking about mega-sessions playing WoW.


I got the "burn-in" DVD and plan to break-in the plasma keeping PC gaming at a minimum first. I just got a tweak how to set the UI in "World of Warcraft" to transparent....so i can set this to any desired opacity/transparency.


If i set the HUD/UI so they're barely visible...i am basically playing full screen without any significant static elements...from that point of view if i were to play hours and hours of WoW without the HUD elements...wouldnt it be the same as breaking it in?


The plasma i am getting also has pixel shift/horizontal and vertical which i will use...so wish me luck i wont get any big IR.


G.
 
#355 ·
The DVD/VCD is a good idea - but i am wondering if there is a screen-saver or program doing the same as the DVD.

This would be way better - especially the screen saver if it would "swipe" the TV (connected to the PC) as soon as you're idle for a few minutes.


maybe i can make one myself.


The other question is...how do you know that the patterns and transitions used on the DVD are the optimum once for breaking-in a plasma?


Is the DVD also useable for removing IR....or is it merely a "breaking in" DVD?
 
#356 ·
for Kuros, i'm wondering if anyone who advocates the 200 hour burn in peroid has ever actually had problems with IR on them, or if they are just being paranoid through word of mouth?


because I've had my set about a week with no break in and average viewing time - i watched a 2 hour 2.35 aspect movie and when it was over i checked 2 inches away from the screen and i could see no evidence of IR at all.
 
#358 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRUN68 /forum/post/13856796


I've had the Panny pz85U for about 2 weeks now, turned settings down, have avoided black bars and gamed only slightly.


I only started noticing IR about 3 days ago. The Playstation 3 Xbar will ghost after only a few seconds on the screen, but that fades within minutes. Menus also ghost quickly but fade out in 5 minutes or less.


However I watched some of the NBA playoffs last night on TNT and their giant scoreboard in the bottom left corner is visible on my screen now, with one caveat: it cannot be seen unless you're a few inches away from an all black screen. It doesn't show if there is any content on the screen, only on an all black screen and only at really short distances. This makes me feel less compelled to abandon ship and take it back but it did freak me out. It still isn't gone after using the white bar and a few hours worth of full screen video content.


I only watched 45 minutes tops of the game, so the fact that it happened worries me. During football season I'm known to watch 9 or more hours of football on saturdays. If a TNT scoreboard for 45 minutes causes this kind of IR now, my football watching plans are going to have to change with regards to this set.


I just hope it fades completely. On the one hand, I can't see it under most normal viewing situations so I sort of wonder if it's a huge deal at all, on the other hand I know it is there and it can happen quickly, so does that mean it could be worse in the future?


I'm not sure. I will say that all other aspects of this TV have been great though.

I have the Samsung PNA550 and also have the same concerns. I've had my set for two weeks and have broken it by watching full screen HD Movies/TV shows with settings at about 50%. I have also gamed slightly, and any IR visible IR on an all black screen has disappeared in seconds/minutes.


However, since I know I am around 130 viewing hours or so I decided to adjust the contrast closer to my gaming tastes. Two nights ago with the new settings I play Call of Duty 4 for three 45 minute (roughly) sessions which resulted in the COD hud visible on an all black screen. It took several hours of full screen content to rid the IR, so naturally I am worried about gaming or watching anything with static images in the future and possible burn in.


Since the hud was faintly visible on an all black when EXTREMELY close to the screen I wanted to ask long time plasma owners: does this even matter? At what point should visible IR be a concern for the possibility of burn in? Does this faint image indicate I have to be careful with burn in (since it lasted so long) and should I worry about completely washing away the faint image before playing the game again?


I appreciate anyone's help
 
#359 ·
I've ordered a Panny 50PZ800....Wasn't really concerned about IR/Burn-in since my understanding was that this problem had bee nfixed in the newer plasmas.


However, reading this thread has led me to re-think. I totally like plasma PQ alot better than LCD's....but I don't know if I could deal with this burn-in/IR issue....


Been deabting about getting the break-in DVD...would have to buy it since I don't have a DVD burner.....doesn't seem like doing this should be necessary but I'm willing to if it will help the TV out....


I'm not a heavy gamer, but do have a PS3 and plan to use it occaisonally....and I realyl don't want to be "afraid" everytime I use it.


So do people really think running the break-in DVD makes that much of a difference?


Also, do you have to just run the break-in DVD only when you first get the TV? Or could you just watch TV normally (stretched, of course) and then play the break-in DVD when not actually watching TV like during the day or overnight?
 
#360 ·
You don't have to have the DVD; just avoid static images for a long time the first 100-200 hours, and even that may be overkill, its just to be on the safe side.


Watch TV in full-screen mode with no black bars, it will "break in" on it's own without the DVD, it just speeds up the process.


Once you do that you really have to abuse a current plasma to get true burn-in. You can get IR, but that will go away. Don't be scared away from Plasma, they just are too good to let that happen.
 
#361 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by briansemerick /forum/post/13864664


for Kuros, i'm wondering if anyone who advocates the 200 hour burn in peroid has ever actually had problems with IR on them, or if they are just being paranoid through word of mouth?


because I've had my set about a week with no break in and average viewing time - i watched a 2 hour 2.35 aspect movie and when it was over i checked 2 inches away from the screen and i could see no evidence of IR at all.

Follow your owners manual.
 
#362 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tts42572 /forum/post/13865938


I've ordered a Panny 50PZ800....Wasn't really concerned about IR/Burn-in since my understanding was that this problem had bee nfixed in the newer plasmas.


However, reading this thread has led me to re-think. I totally like plasma PQ alot better than LCD's....but I don't know if I could deal with this burn-in/IR issue....


Been deabting about getting the break-in DVD...would have to buy it since I don't have a DVD burner.....doesn't seem like doing this should be necessary but I'm willing to if it will help the TV out....


I'm not a heavy gamer, but do have a PS3 and plan to use it occaisonally....and I realyl don't want to be "afraid" everytime I use it.


So do people really think running the break-in DVD makes that much of a difference?


Also, do you have to just run the break-in DVD only when you first get the TV? Or could you just watch TV normally (stretched, of course) and then play the break-in DVD when not actually watching TV like during the day or overnight?

Disregard what is said on this forum regarding break-in and just follow your owners manual. The manufacturer designed and manufactured your set, they know what is best. You follow your owners manual for your vehicle don't you?
 
#363 ·
Thanks for the reminder.


I think part of the problem is that I just bought a PS3...bought it mainly for blu-ray, but I'll also game a little bit (probably 4-5 hours per week max).


Being that I haven't actually received my 50PZ800U yet, I think I'm just second guessing myself.....sorta like your wedding day when you wonder if you made the right decision



Basically for me, the only attractive property of LCD's is the the fact you don't need to worry about IR/burn-in...and can watch non-full screen content with black bars all day and not have to worry.


However, I give the edge to plasma in EVERY other category. I like every aspect of a plasma picture better...and glare is no issue for me. So it comes down to a better picture all the time....and having to exercise a little care....or a picture I don't like as much...but would be able to use freely without worry.


I'll probably stick with my first choice.....but I'll probably worry about IR/burn-in for awhile. However, when scanning the burn-in/IR threads, 90% of the posts are "worrying" about burn-in/IR and not actual cases of it. Seems like there are a few instances here and there of some permanent IR....but seems to be the exception.


Still up in the air about buying the break-in DVD. Doesn't really seem necessary but probably wouldn't hurt to run it a bit during the first 100 hours. Don't see myself running it exclusivley though....I'll probably mix it in when I'm not watching TV.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBoomer /forum/post/13867404


You don't have to have the DVD; just avoid static images for a long time the first 100-200 hours, and even that may be overkill, its just to be on the safe side.


Watch TV in full-screen mode with no black bars, it will "break in" on it's own without the DVD, it just speeds up the process.


Once you do that you really have to abuse a current plasma to get true burn-in. You can get IR, but that will go away. Don't be scared away from Plasma, they just are too good to let that happen.
 
#364 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tts42572 /forum/post/13865938


I'm not a heavy gamer, but do have a PS3 and plan to use it occaisonally....and I realyl don't want to be "afraid" everytime I use it.

I just got a new plasma, and though I've never "broken-in" my other two (and have never had IR or burn-in), I figured it wouldn't hurt this time around because this set will be seeing a bit of gaming. Since you have a PS3, simply download the break-in .jpg's, transfer them to your PS3 and then run a slideshow. It does the same thing as the DVD. I run mine whenever the set is not being used for TV, movies or gaming, shutting it off for a couple hours every day to cool down.
 
#365 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicRat75 /forum/post/13869814


I just got a new plasma, and though I've never "broken-in" my other two (and have never had IR or burn-in), I figured it wouldn't hurt this time around because this set will be seeing a bit of gaming. Since you have a PS3, simply download the break-in .jpg's, transfer them to your PS3 and then run a slideshow. It does the same thing as the DVD. I run mine whenever the set is not being used for TV, movies or gaming, shutting it off for a couple hours every day to cool down.

Please, please...if you make a reference to downloadable tools/jpegs....give us a link also.


Thanks
 
#366 ·
Image retention is an issue with a solution, it does not require a technician or any special fixes. It goes away by watching other stuff for a few minutes. When I play game for a long time if I get worried about image retention I can flip channels to a regular tv show for a few minutes. The issues with LCD's: clouding, flashlights, motion blur, haze, etc. are all problems that the consumer cannot fix.
 
#369 ·
Like he said, when people say "IR" they usually mean a temporary image retention on the screen, that can be removed by watching full-screen material, or running the TV's IR removal routine.


"Burn in" is more severe, and cannot be removed. The phosphors have unevenly aged to a degree where you see a permanent change. Obviously this is much worse, and is not covered by warranty.
 
#370 ·
I've been researching flat panel TVs for a couple of months. I'm not crazy about some of the issues that LCDs have, but I am very concerned with burn-in. I've got a 6-year old CRT-based RPTV that has burn-in from watching 4:3 material (and, no, I did not have the set in "torch" mode). I know a lot of people say that burn-in is not really a concern with plasma anymore, but I refuse to stretch old movies (I'm sorry, but Sydney Greenstreet is already fat enough in Casablanca). Furthermore, it's apparent as I read through the various threads in the Plasma forum, burn-in is a very popular (unpopular?) topic.


I can't say what percentage of 4:3 material I'll be watching, but let's guess and say it's 33%. Should I be considering a plasma set? it seems to me that burn-in is the #1 concern of plasma owners and potential buyers.


By the way, games are not an issue (at least for now).
 
#372 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchalebk /forum/post/13901089


I've been researching flat panel TVs for a couple of months. I'm not crazy about some of the issues that LCDs have, but I am very concerned with burn-in. I've got a 6-year old CRT-based RPTV that has burn-in from watching 4:3 material (and, no, I did not have the set in "torch" mode). I know a lot of people say that burn-in is not really a concern with plasma anymore, but I refuse to stretch old movies (I'm sorry, but Sydney Greenstreet is already fat enough in Casablanca). Furthermore, it's apparent as I read through the various threads in the Plasma forum, burn-in is a very popular (unpopular?) topic.


I can't say what percentage of 4:3 material I'll be watching, but let's guess and say it's 33%. Should I be considering a plasma set? it seems to me that burn-in is the #1 concern of plasma owners and potential buyers.


By the way, games are not an issue (at least for now).

That is a lot of content (%) that will be 4:3. You will not get IR or burn in but you WILL get uneven phosphor wear, regardless of which plasma set you use. At that high of a %, you will eventually start seeing in shows/movies that are full screen a difference in light colors on the sides, especially white. If 33% of your viewing is going to be 4:3 content you are talking a third of everything you watch. That is pretty high and kind of defeats the purpose of a widescreen TV (if you refuse to stretch what you are watching).
 
#373 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR /forum/post/13901473


That is a lot of content (%) that will be 4:3. You will not get IR or burn in but you WILL get uneven phosphor wear, regardless of which plasma set you use. At that high of a %, you will eventually start seeing in shows/movies that are full screen a difference in light colors on the sides, especially white. If 33% of your viewing is going to be 4:3 content you are talking a third of everything you watch. That is pretty high and kind of defeats the purpose of a widescreen TV (if you refuse to stretch what you are watching).

Two things:


1. Isn't "burn-in" and "uneven phosphor wear" the same thing?


2. As for defeating the purpose of getting a widescreen TV, watching 33% 4:3 material means watching 67% widescreen material. No TV fits all aspect ratio material; the world is moving more and more widescreen; what other kind of TV should we buy?


My wife and I mainly watch DVDs. Some are widescreen, some are not. We watch virtually all material in OAR. We will undoubtedly transition to Blu-ray at some time, but haven't yet. We'd like to go flat panel (as in "hang on the wall"). If 33% of what we watch is too much to prevent burn-in, why are people stating that burn-in isn't really a problem any more with plasma sets?
 
#374 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchalebk /forum/post/13901685


Two things:

1. Isn't "burn-in" and "uneven phosphor wear" the same thing?

He just means that the areas with the bars are going to age(wear) differently the the area that is displaying the image due to watching 4:3 content with bars on the side. And no I don't think "burn-in" and "uneven phosphor wear" are the same. If you work certain areas harder than other's, those areas are going to get worn out. Burn-in is permanent "image retention".
 
#375 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbloodsflow /forum/post/13902363


He just means that the areas with the bars are going to age(wear) differently the the area that is displaying the image due to watching 4:3 content with bars on the side. And no I don't think "burn-in" and "uneven phosphor wear" are the same. If you work certain areas harder than other's, those areas are going to get worn out. Burn-in is permanent "image retention".

This seems like a semantic argument. Isn't the type of burn-in that is caused by a station logo a simple case of extreme uneven phosphor wear? The people at PlasmaSaver.com agree with my definition (the following is from: http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html):

Quote:
The most common type of burn-in is the result of watching 4:3 video with black bars on both sides on a 16:9 screen.

Regardless, even if the terms aren't completely equivalent, isn't that splitting hairs? Is there a percentage of viewing 4:3 material that is safe for a modern plasma TV? Less than 5%? Less than 10%? Less than 20%?
 
#376 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchalebk /forum/post/13902628


This seems like a semantic argument. Isn't the type of burn-in that is caused by a station logo a simple case of extreme uneven phosphor wear? The people at PlasmaSaver.com agree with my definition (the following is from: http://www.plasmasaver.com/burnin.html):




Regardless, even if the terms aren't completely equivalent, isn't that splitting hairs? Is there a percentage of viewing 4:3 material that is safe for a modern plasma TV? Less than 5%? Less than 10%? Less than 20%?

I haven't owned a plasma long enough to know truly what's safe and what's not for X amount of time. Obviously it's kind of a given that phosphor wear= burn in in the most general sense, since phosphor wear is what causes burn-in. But it's not the type of burn-in that most people are afraid of. There's no point in arguing about terminology b/c it's not going to change the nature of the technology. Obviously different terminology means different things to different people. If I may use your words, burn-in=phosphor wear(which is true in general), then you have burn-in the very second you first fire up your television. It's obviously not as literal it may sound. I think it's better phrased as, burn-in is a result of phosphor wear but some phosphor wear doesn't mean you have anything literally burnt in.


If a large part of your viewing is 4:3 content, then maybe a plasma television isn't for you. LCD and Plasma both have their pro's and con's, but for me plasma televisions have way more pro's than con's in comparison to LCD's. How many people do you see posting that they have burn-in on their plasma anymore? It's b/c it's not a problem unless you completely abuse your T.V., but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be careful.


I guess if I was unwilling to compromise on 4:3 content 100% of the time, during 33% of my viewing time, I'd start looking elsewhere. Maybe, myself and other plasma owners, are a little bit too paranoid? I don't know but that is my recommendation.
 
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