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2008 Samsung HL61A750 LED DLP owners thread and FAQ

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#1 ·
Samsung 61" HL61A750 and 67" HL67A750 LED DLP Owners thread/FAQ

This FAQ was last updated on: 3/3/09

Note: I stole the idea and layout for this thread from the excellent Onkyo 705 thread maintained by woots.

** See post 2 below for calibration and service menu tweak information! **


[For full change log, refer to the bottom of post #1]



Click below to view the Samsung details on samsung.com
Samsung Specs


Click below to download a PDF version of the Manual, or the latest firmware
Samsung downloads

Note: If you have firmware version lower than 1005.3 you should update your firmware to fix the power cycle issue and Component black out

Go to MENU, SETUP, SW Upgrade, Then press the INFO button to display firmware version.

This FAQ/owners thread is a work in progress!


The previous 2008 Samsung DLP discussion thread located here covered the 650 bulb based sets, as well as the 750 LED sets, and was started long before the sets came out. Many owners were requesting a separate owners thread to discuss this particular set. A 650 owners thread/FAQ has been started here, based on much of the same information in the FAQ.


There is lots of information in the old thread, but I will attempt to centralize the knowledge contributed from everyone in the old thread here. Feel free to post or PM additions, and I will add them to this section.



Whether your a potential "Buyer" or an "Owner" be sure to read through ALL sections of this FAQ as some questions people ask are located in various areas. I just wanted to separate out these sections to make locating important information a little easier for people doing research on the TV.


Frequently Asked Questions

- Does this FAQ also apply to the 650 bulb based sets? What about the 67" 750

Some of the items may very well apply to the 650 set. However, some menu items and settings may be different. The two sets use two different light engines, so expect some settings to be different. The information here does apply to the 67".

- What's the cheapest price I can find this TV?


The price constantly changes up and down since the day this TV came out at a MSRP of $2399. The current MSRP is $2099. Many users have found the TV on sale and in stores for around $250 below MSRP, (may require use of coupons), or from online retailers around $400 below MSRP.

- Why should I get a 750 LED series over the 650 bulb series?
  • The 750 comes in bigger sizes, 61" and 67".
  • The 750 has an LED light source that should last the life of the set. No bulbs to replace.
  • The 750 uses the CinemaPure Color Engine that creates brilliant, realistic images and displays color that's 40% brighter than traditional HDTVs. (Note that most sources don't take advantage of this extra color space. Some Camcorders do support it.)
  • Nearly instant startup times, with instant brightness no need for the bulb or ballast to warm up.
  • No spinning color wheel, so quieter TV (color wheels spin fast and can sometimes have a high pitch whine), and less moving parts
  • Much, much less chance of seeing rainbows as the LED's cycle much faster than the color wheel.
  • "Green" TV. The LED set uses much less power than bulb based sets and has one of the lowest energy consumption of TV's. Note that actual energy usage is less than the max rated watts listed on the TV.

- Why should I get the 650 series over the 750?
  • Cheaper.
  • Want a smaller size, 56" or below.

- Why should I get the 750 series over a competitor, like the Mitsubishi
  • The 750 has an LED light source that should last the life of the set. No bulbs to replace.
  • Nearly instant startup times, with instant brightness no need for the bulb or ballast to warm up.
  • No spinning color wheel, so quieter TV (color wheels spin fast and can sometimes have a high pitch whine), and less moving parts
  • Much, much less chance of seeing rainbows as the LED's cycle much faster than the color wheel.
  • "Green" TV. The LED set uses much less power than bulb based sets and has one of the lowest energy consumption of TV's. Note that actual energy usage is less than the max rated watts listed on the TV.
  • The Samsung has 120Hz video processing for smooth, judder free playback of 24 fps film based material, such as Blu-Ray movies
  • Extensive user menu settings for picture adjustments
  • The Phlatlight LED engine is made in the USA.

- Does this set use the new TI DarkChip4?

No. From looking at the service manual, it appears that the chip is the same as last years set, which would be DarkChip3.

See this post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post13922332
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenZ /forum/post/13922332


The service manual says the DLP chip in the HLT6189S, HL61A750, & HL67A750 is the same: xHD5 (search AVS for more info on it).


However, the "image enhancer" IC is new in the new models. Maybe better scaling/deinterlacing? Maybe lower cost? Maybe they stopped making the previous IC? The new IC is referred to as "BAYHILL+".
- Can you give me some more information on the Phlatlight LED's used?

From here: http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...f_illumination

Quote:
"..Currently, Samsung is the only television manufacturer to offer a line of PhlatLight-enabled DLP HDTVs. The Samsung HL-T61A750 (61-in.) or 67A750 (67-in.), for example, is illuminated using a single PhlatLight PT120 chipset, which was specifically designed and optimized for use with the Texas Instruments xHD5 1080p DLP chipset. The PhlatLight PT120 is a three-color system that includes a red, green and blue LED. Each LED is a single, large area monolithic chip that can sustain extremely high power and fast pulsing. The PT120's red, green and blue LEDs combine to produce pure, accurate sequential colored light and cycle at 2.9 KHz, 48 times faster than traditional television frame rates, creating a smooth, stable color and superior motion quality. The red, green and blue LEDs in the PT120 chipset combine to produce more than 3,000 white lumens under normal operating conditions (2,000 white lumens under pulsed operation), which is enough brightness to illuminate rear projection TVs up to 67 inches with a single RGB chipset. This new Samsung model also offers a contrast ratio of 10,000:1..."
- How do I access the service menu?

Be careful in the service menu, if you don't know what you are doing, you can screw up your set!

With the TV off, press Mute, 1, 8, 2, Power on the remote. Caution, this will cause all of your user picture menu items to reset to their defaults. So, you will have to redo your contrast, brightness, etc. settings whenever you go to the service menu. Write them down before hand!! To back out of a service menu item, hit the menu button

- What are all of these service menu items?

See the list here thanks to ztkp01.


Need to start working on a description of service menu items, if anyone would like to contribute...

- How can I bring up some test patterns from the service menu? (Might be useful in a store to check geometry)

From the service menu, you can get to the test patterns by going to the DDP3021 menu, and choosing Test Pattern (DDP). You can then right arrow through various test patterns. There is one for adjusting the picture position that may be useful for checking geometry.

You can also use this image, (just copy it to a USB thumb drive and connect it to the TV
http://psleng.dyndns.org/files/tv_test/grid.jpg


- What are the dimensions of the TV, the box, the base of the TV?

61":

Set size(WxHxD) 54.8" x 37.8" x 14.4"

Package size(WxHxD) 60.0" x 42.6" x 20.2"

Just under 40" wide for the bottom base.


Dimensional drawing courtesy of tomytyler:



67":

Set size(WxHxD) 60.8" x 41.5" x 15.5"

Package size(WxHxD) 65.9" x 46.2" x 20.7"


- Does this TV have 120Hz processing? Is it like the LCD's I see in the store? Why does it say 60Hz when I press the info button?

Yes, this TV is ALWAYS doing 120Hz video processing. It cannot be turned on or off. This is not the same effect that you may see on some LCD's in a store. Those LCD's have a feature called something like Motion Enhancement that is software to enhance the motion of the image. This often has the effect of making film look like video, and can also cause what is known as TBE or triple ball effect, where you might see three balls on a fast moving baseball due to software frame interpolation. Since DLP's have a hugely faster update rate, this is not needed. The 120Hz on this TV is used to provide judder free display of 24fps sources, such as blue ray movies. When you press the info button on the remote, it shows the frame rate of the SOURCE material. For regular TV, this will usually be 60Hz. For Blu rays, it will be 24Hz. But the TV always does 120Hz video processing. 120Hz is also used for the 3d features of the TV, or to provide two full screen independent images at 60Hz to users. These features require special glasses and must be supported by the source material

- Does this TV do 1080p/24fps?

Yes, see above.

- Should I buy an extended warranty? What is the cheapest place?

It is up to you. I find most retail stores warranties are too expensive. One popular alternative on this board is the Mack extended warranty offered with special AVS discount pricing here.

Mack Warranty info with special price from Texas Tapeworks.


Since these TV's have no bulb, you should be OK with the TV only warranty. AVS discount pricing was $125 last I checked.

- What is the Service Manual part number? Where can I order one?

The part number is SM-HL61A750A1F. You can order one from samsungparts.com for $28. Online retailers have electronic copies for SERVICE MANUAL 1 $28.00 $28.00


Other places have electronic versions available cheaper. Manualuniverse.com had it for $18.99. To find it you need to search for the complete model number, which is HL61A750A1FXZA

- What is SSE?

Stands for Silk Screen Effect. It is the "sparkly" or "shimmery" look on bright backgrounds, like sky shots. It is caused by the type of high gain screen used. It's effects (if it really bothers you) can be reduced with proper brightness and contrast adjustments

- Will the optical out pass DD5.1?

Only for over the air signals. From the manual:

When the receiver (home theater) is set to On, you can hear sound output from

the TV's Optical jack. When the TV is displaying a DTV(air) signal, the TV will send

out 5.1 channel sound to the Home theater receiver. When the source is a digital

component such as a DVD and is connected to the TV via HDMI, only 2 channel

sound will be heard from the Home Theater receiver.

If you want to hear 5.1 channel audio, connect the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT

(OPTICAL) jack on the DVD player or Cable/Satellite Box directly to an Amplifier or

Home Theater, not the TV.

- How much power does this actually set use?

According to measurements done by jayquinty , On: 119 Watts. Crutchfield measured off usage at only .6 Watts. It is one of the greenest TV's you can buy, especially for it's size.


User chuckolson made these measurements with his Kill A Watt P4400 Tester to show how power usage depends on LED control setting:

Auto 170 - 190 W.

Max 170 W.

High 140 W.

Medium 119 W.

Low 99 W.

Min 84 W.

- Does this set support discrete power on/off via IR?

Yes.
- What about IR codes to go directly to their inputs?

Yes.

- Can I directly select picture mode (Movie, Standard, or (ugh) Dynamic), using my Harmony remote?

Yes, but you need to email Logitech to have them add the commands to your account. I've asked them to update the database for our sets, but last I checked they had not.


Simply do the following[/size]:
  1. Go to the logitech website, and click the email support link here
  2. Fill in your information, and ask them to convert the Pronto hex codes below into remote codes. Include your harmony remote user name in the information.
  3. They should reply to your email and add them to your account. I have asked them to add these to the general database for our TV's, we'll see if they do.

I'm fairly sure these codes would also work for the 650 series of sets.


These codes are in standard Pronto hex format:


Picture mode - Dynamic

0000 006C 0022 0000 00AD 00AD 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0728



Picture mode - Movie

0000 006C 0022 0000 00AD 00AD 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0728



Picture mode - Standard

0000 006C 0022 0000 00AD 00AD 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0041 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0728
- Does this tv work properly with the voice sync feature of HDMI 1.3a?

The TV is HMDI 1.3a compliant, but that doesn't mean it supports every feature that 1.3a can have. I haven't seen any reference to it supporting this, but will try and test it with my receiver, (Onkyo 805) which does support it, and will get back to you on this.


Known bugs, issues, warnings, setup advice
- Power cycle issue

Initial firmware release had issues where the set would randomly turn off. Fixed by firmware update 1000.4

- Black Adjust and/or Dynamic gets set to high (even though it says off) when switch to/from movie mode

When you go from Standard to Movie mode, or back to Standard, sometimes (not always on my set, haven't figured out quite the pattern), you may notice that blacks are suddenly very dark and being crushed. This is because Black Adjust in the Detailed picture setting is actually on high, even though it says off. To fix, just move the setting, and move it back to Off. I believe this also happened to me once with Dynamic Contrast.

- Black "flecks" on the inside of the screen

Most likely dust or something on the inside of the screen from shipping. Easily removed by opening up the circular access ports on the sides of the rear of the TV, and reaching in with a soft micorfiber or lens cloth and removing them

- Convergence, tilt, geometry issues

Several have reported various geometry or tilt issues, many have reported none. Tilt may be adjusted by moving the DMD light engine

- Calibration option in service menu

This is a warning, if you do this option you may need to turn the color management system back on using the CCA service menu item.

- 1080p over Component issue.

Some people have issues connecting the Xbox to the set and getting 1080p. In this case, the best connection option for Xbox is VGA cable, (or HMDI if you have that). NOTE that firmware 1000.5 should fix this issue.

- Buzzing in Dynamic mode, on very bright scenes

Some users, (including me), have reported a buzzing noise from the back of the TV if it is in Dynamic mode showing a bright scene. This is hard to hear unless the sound is muted. It may be a power supply, or the LED's , or what. I do not hear this in any of the other viewing modes. only dynamic on bright scenesLooking for more feedback from users to check how widespread this issue is


Link to similar problem with 2007 LED set, caused by LED driver board. Fix seems to be to replace the entire LED light engine.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...g#post12588890
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post12430724


If the buzz is constant, not dependant on what is shown, it could be some other power supply.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...z#post12974128


- Verizon FIOS HDTV DVR picture dropouts

Kainan has reported a problem with the Verizon FIOS HDTV DVR and our TV. It loses picture randomly (every few days) and the only current fix is to unplug the power for a few seconds and plug it back in. Before I found this out I was spending tons of time on the phone with Verizon as they would reset the box and I would get the picture back. One person at Verizon said this is completely Samsung's fault while I did manage to talk to one person there who said that Verizon hadn't been able to keep up with the newer technology that is in the new Samsung 750 sets. Of course Samsung has said that this is a fault of Verizon. Neither side has budged yet and I still have to unplug the power every few days. This is ONLY on the HDTV boxes.


- Top bar reflections

Many users have reported that when watching a moview with black bars at the top and botoom, if a very bright obejct is at the top of the image, some light will bleed into the black bar.


TV Recommended Display Settings:
General Notes: Dynamic mode is pretty much regarded as useless, and intended for store demo purposes only. Standard is probably more preferable. Movie mode reportedly has the best D6500 color temp tracking.

You should adjust the contrast, brightness, color, gamma, etc. control for what looks correct for your set suing a calibration disk like the AVCHD disk, or Digital Video Essentials (DVE). So, some of the specific settings below are what worked for me, but may not work for you. However, as a general rule, recommended settings everyone should consider using are:

Edge Enhancement: off

Size: Just Scan

Color Gamut: sRGB


My settings:
Picture mode: Standard
Usage:What I like for normal Cable/HD viewing. Provides extra "pop", and 3D-ish look but clearly over saturated.

Contrast 97

Brightness 48

Sharp 0

Color 49

Tint 46/54Detailed Settings

Black Adj off

Dyn Contrast Low (Adds the "pop" many people are looking for)

LED Control Auto (Sometimes turn down to medium at night)

Gamma 0

White Bal -4

Flesh Tone -3

Edge Ehancement off

xvYCC off

Picture Options

Color Tone Normal

Size Just Scan

Digital NR Auto

DNIe Off

HDMI Black Lvl Normal * See notes below

Film Mode Auto

Blue Only Mode off

Color Gamut sRGB
Picture mode Movie
Usage: Movies, Blu Ray playback. Generally, the most accurate mode

Contrast 100

Brightness 47

Sharp 0

Color 49

Tint 50/50Detailed Settings

Black Adj off

Dyn Contrast off

LED Control Medium

Gamma -3

White Bal 0

Flesh Tone 0

Edge Ehancement off

xvYCC off

Picture Options

Color Tone Warm 2

Size Just Scan


Digital NR Auto

DNIe off

HDMI Black Lvl Normal * See notes below

Film Mode Auto

Blue Only Mode off

Color Gamut sRGB
Check out the Google Docs spreadsheet of other users settings Add your own to the spreadsheet, but please do not delete or change the format of the sheet, or I will have to lock it down.

HDMI black level may be grayed out and set to Auto for cable viewing. It is also grayed out for Blu Ray playback, (providing your machine is outputting a YPb signal). This setting only affects, and is only changeable with RGB signals, such as at the PS3 XMB dashboard, or a PC.


HDMI black level = normal tells the TV to expect "normal" PC RGB 0-255 levels. HDMI black level = Low tells the TV to expect it's input to have video RGB 16-235 levels, and the TV will expand these by lowering 16 to 0 and raising 235 to 255. When viewing an RGB encoded source, if your picture is too light and blacks are not very black, or if blacks are too dark and you loose a lot of shadow detail, try switching to the other setting.

PS3 Recommended Settings:
From PS3 Settings->Display settings menu: (Note you can also adjust these while watching a movie by using the triangle button and going to the AV Display settings icon)
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White: On (Allows blacker than black and whiter than whites to be passed)
RGB Full Range: Full (** This is to optimize it for PC RGB levels, such as games **)

PS3 Settings->BD/DVD Settings
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HMDI): Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr [Automatic is also OK. Note that on Auto, for Blu Ray's, it will send video as Y Pb, and for games and the XMB dashboard it will be RGB.]

TV Settings:
Detailed Settings:
--- xvYCC: Off (On seems to make no difference to me. Only devices that use this anyways are some camcorders. Turn it on if you have such a device.)
Picture Options:
--- HDMI Black Level: Normal

With the RGB Full Range set to Full, then the HDMI Black Level in the TV's Picture Options menu should be set to Normal. With the RGB Full Range set to Limited, then the HDMI Black Level in the TV's Picture Options menu should be set to Low.

Either way is "OK", as long as you keep them consistent. You should see virtually no difference between RGB Full/HDMI Normal and RGB Limited/HDMI Low. You should not have to adjust your contrast or brightness when switching between settings. The only difference that may be apparent, is some slight color banding in one mode or the other. Note that most people on this site will tell you that RGB limited is the correct setting. This *may* be true for *their* sets, but is really a recommendation to optimize it for video level encoded sources. However, since you can set these up to use YPb output, and our sets can support the full PC RGB range, therefor I feel it is better to recommend setting it up to optimize PC level material, such as games.


Check out this post by sperron which explains it very well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperron /forum/post/12581788


After a correct calibration full should look exactly like limited does after calibration (though either can introduce banding, see below). When you calibrate, you set 0 (full) or 16 (limited) to match black on your TV. You then set 235 (limited) or 255 (full) to match peak white on your TV. After you have done that, 0 (full) and 16 (limited) should look just as black, and 235 (limited) and 255 (full) should be the same exact white. With digital TVs, you are limited by the black level and peak white level that your set is capable of. Setting contrast and brightness maps the black of the source to black on your TV and the peak white of your source to the peak white of your TV. Unless your TV has some odd quirk, after calibration full and limited should be identical (again except for possible banding, see below).


If you use full for video sources, you can introduce banding because 16-235 is stretched and remapped to 0-255.


If you use limited for RGB sources, you can introduce banding because 0-255 is compressed and remapped to 16-235.


What this means is:

1) Calibration is important whichever one you select.

2) if you are primarily into Blu-Rays, playing DVDs or streaming media then you want to use limited for optimal quality

3) if you primarily are concerned about video games, full may be a better choice, especially if you are seeing banding using limited when playing games.

4)If you aren't going to calibrate, neither full or limited are going to provide a perfect experience, though one may look "better" to you.


Unless you have a HDTV that can display better then 8 bits, your set is most likely going to cause banding no matter what you do because everything is remapped to your display screen's capabilities. Even if you use full, after calibration your HDTV probably does not have 255 steps for each color anyway. Even with PC monitors, you really have to go out of your way to get an LCD that can display a full 8 bit signal, and HDTVs are even less concerned about displaying a full 0-255 PC signal. You may actually be trying to map a full 0-255 to your HDTV that may not have enough digital steps for each color to even display the entire 16-235 limited signal. Someday when all HDTVs are 10bit or better displays, this will be a bigger deal.


Thanks to user Nullman who found some test material that demonstrates this color banding issue when set to RGB Limited/HDMI black Level low. You can see for yourself with the WipeOut HD game trailer or the WallE movie trailer as he describes below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nullman /forum/post/13985616


I see color banding with the settings you posted that I've not seen before. One piece of source that I saw this in is the Wipeout HD trailer from the Playstation Store. There are gray boxes that rotate by with bullet points about the game in between game footage. With your settings I can clearly see color banding in the gray boxes, under the text. I see maybe a dozen distinct colors of grays and I can clearly see each step to the next color. If I leave all of your settings the same and only change HDMI Black Level to Normal on the TV and set the PS3 to Full Range RGB, the gray colors blend more smoothly from one to the next. I thought maybe it was just that trailer, so I brought up the WALL-E trailer 2. I see some color banding there too. Not as bad as with the Wipeout HD trailer though. I see it in the top 1/3rd or so of the animated Pixar logo (with the hopping light) in the powder blue background. If you have access to these two sources I'd be curious to know if you or any one else see similar results.
If you do see color banding in your picture, then try the other combination

Xbox 360 Recommended Settings:
* This section still in progress *

If your Xbox does not have HDMI as an option, you can use component or VGA. Many posters seem to prefer the VGA connection, (there were issues early on with 1080p over component, that have since been fixed with a firmware update). From testing by Turls, he suggests setting the VGA reference level to Expanded as the best setting for Xbox.

Some calibration results:
rahull
StevenZ
StevenZ settings


A general comment (allegedly) from Eliab, a well known calibrator here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post13868219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sennat /forum/post/13868219


Saw this on the (private) avical forum, from Eliab:


The HL61A750 that I worked on this past Saturday may be the most impressive Samsung DLP that I've worked on thus far - and I've worked on hundreds. It's a bit quirky from a calibration standpoint, but it responded terrificly and rendered an extremely satisfying image. I can't imagine getting a better picture at this size for under 2k (presently). Samsung definitely took a step in the right direction with this one.
Other resources:

Here are a collection of resources that may be useful.

Check out the Cnet review of this set. Did very well!



2007 model HL-Txx87/89 Tech Links

Some very good information in here, although not everything applies to our sets.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post12663312



Change log

5-16-2008. Fixed link t[o specs on Samsung.com. Re-ordered FAQ. Added sections about light engine. Clarified what this FAQ applies to. Added full model number to link for service manual at manualuniverse. Added Darkchip4 question. Edited bug about doing calibrate option in service menu. Clarified 1080p/24fps support. Added xbox 1080p component issue. Added buzzing in Dynamic mode

5-17-2008: Black bar image note. Added tech links and other resources section

5-20-2008: Added section about why buy the 750 vs. Mitsubishi

5-21-2008 Added section on PS3 setup. Also new firmware is out.

5-22-2008 Added Darkchip4 = NO.

5-26-2008 Added power usage, discrete IR commands, and HDMI voice sync, Xbox 360 section

6-3-2008 Updated PS3 settings, recommended settings, phlatlight info

6-9-2008 Added package dimensions for 67", and link to 650 owners FAQ

7-22-2008 Added Cnet review link

8-23-2008 Added updated power usage info and Verizon FIOS HD DVR issue.

9-28-2008 Added info on Harmony remote direct picture mode selection

10-17-2008 Added dimensional drawing

3-3--2009 Added information in post #2 for calibration/service menu tweaks
 
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#41 ·
Here are some of the settings I've been using for my PS3 and Xbox 360, each are connected to the TV directly. I use the PS3 for games, BD and DVD movie playback. The Xbox 360 is mainly for games. I came to these settings using AVCHD 700 (RC1), Avia, DVE (both DVD and Blu-ray versions), as well as some test pattern images loaded on to both my PS3 and 360. This page ( http://nicolaspeople.com/ch3rokeesblog/?p=13 ) described who should be using full range RGB. Their test image shows the 61A750 supports full range RGB. In this mode I had to set my TV's HDMI Black Level to Normal instead of Low, which would be used for limited RGB. These settings affect my PS3's XMB stuff and games. I am using Y Pb/Cb Pe/Cr for Blu-ray and DVD output on the PS3 along with Y Pb/Cb Pe/Cr Super White On. A couple of test images that you can use to adjust Brightness and Contrast for the PS3 XMB and games can be found here: http://sr-388.net/images/patterns/

PS3 connected via HDMI:


Mode: Movie

Contrast: 95

Brightness: 45

Sharpness: 0

Color: 49

Tint (G/R): G50/R50


Detailed Settings:

Black Adjust: Off

Dynamic Contrast: Off

LED Control: Auto (I have lowered it at night when watching movies if it is too bright)

Gamma: -3

White Balance: 0

Flesh Tone: 0

Edge Enhancement: Off

xvYCC: Off


Picture Options:

Color Tone: Warm1

Size: Just Scan

Digital NR: Off

DNIe (grayed out): Off

HDMI Black Level: Normal

Film Mode (grayed out): Off

Color Gamut :sRGB


My PS3 display settings:

Video Output Settings: 1080p

Cross Color Reduction Filter: Off

RGB Full Range (HDMI): Full

Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super White (HDMI): On


My PS3 Blu-ray settings:

Cinema Conversion: Automatic

DVD Wide Display: Letterbox

DVD Upscaler: Normal

BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): Y Pb/Cb Pe/Cr

BD 1080p 24 Hz Output (HDMI): On


Xbox360 connected via component (no HDMI on my 360):


Mode: Movie

Contrast: 95

Brightness: 45

Sharpness: 0

Color: 51

Tint (G/R): G49/R51


Detailed Settings:

Black Adjust: Off

Dynamic Contrast: Off

LED Control: Auto

Gamma: -3

White Balance: 0

Flesh Tone: 0

Edge Enhancement: Off

xvYCC (grayed out): Off


Picture Options:

Color Tone: Warm1

Size: Just Scan

Digital NR: Off

DNIe (grayed out): Off

HDMI Black Level (grayed out): Normal

Film Mode: Off

Color Gamut: sRGB


Xbox 360 Display Settings: 1080p. Black Level (only affects 480p output and DVD playback, which I don't use the 360 for) is currently set to Extended, only because it is correct with the brightness level of 45. The other two modes, while able to display blacker than black, required me to set the brightness to 30 for Standard and 38 for Intermediate, which was then too dark for the dashboard and games.


My Xbox360 output is set to 1080i. At 1080p using component output I had the TV lose sync/black out and come back on intermittently. Not a problem at 1080i though - Update: Firmware update 1005.3 has fixed this problem for me, my 360 works fine now at 1080p over component.


*5/25 - Updated some settings and added the note about firmware fixing Xbox360 1080p component interoperability.

*5/27 - Update details about why I seleted Full RGB for the PS3's XBM and games.
 
#42 ·
Well....with some reservations, I bought a 61A750 from the local BB. The price was good so I couldn't pass.


A bit of backstory: I had an HLS-5679...the original LED DLP. It was awesome (it was also 4 grand
). It had the power cycle problem and after a couple months of run-arounds, Samsung replaced it with an HLT5689. I saw red and green rainbows. A couple more months run-around and they bought it back. I went 3 months without a TV.



Now....I just hooked it up to my Yamaha rcver that has a Toshiba DVD player and two PS3s hooked to it. The picture is awesome right out of the box. I have a sliding glass door just to the left of the TV. Bright day......shades and door open and the TV still looks great. Now that the sun is down, its even more awesome. I wish I wasn't so tired so I could go back and watch all the Stargate SG-1 episodes all over again.
Best of all......I don't see any rainbow action!!!!!!!!! Samsung just might have won me back with this one.




I'll now be taking a look at the suggested settings and trying them out tomorrow.



I feel very............content.
 
#43 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nullman /forum/post/13903361

Xbox360 connected via component (no HDMI on my 360):

I'll have to connect mine the same way when it arrives (Amazon shipped today, sked. delivery 5/29 - ugh!).


Since this will be my first HDTV (it's replacing an 8 y.o. Sony KP-61S70), just wondering how much improvement I can expect via component? The settings and the tip about 1080i are much appreciated too.
 
#44 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilrwolf /forum/post/13904813


just wondering how much improvement I can expect via component? The settings and the tip about 1080i are much appreciated too.

Oh my, it's going to be night and day. How exciting! My TV replaced a five year old HDTV, a Sony Grand Wega XBR LCD/RP, that cost nearly 4k and I notice a big difference in picture quality. One more thing, there is a swtich on the Xbox360 compnent cable, be sure it's set to HDTV. Now the long wait until the 29th..
 
#45 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilrwolf /forum/post/13904813


I'll have to connect mine the same way when it arrives (Amazon shipped today, sked. delivery 5/29 - ugh!).

Amazon shipped mine on Thursday, (returned my original set to Best Buy), with a delivery estimate of May 28th. Don't put too much stock in those delivery estimates, because mine is being delivered tomorrow between 9-1pm. :)
 
#46 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_pro /forum/post/13904929


Amazon shipped mine on Thursday, (returned my original set to Best Buy), with a delivery estimate of May 28th. Don't put too much stock in those delivery estimates, because mine is being delivered tomorrow between 9-1pm. :)

Cool, I am in the same boat as some other posters here with a scheduled date of 5-29. I was hoping to get this by this weekend.
 
#47 ·
For those who ordered it on big river: Do they deliver on weekends or after 5pm? Or is it dependant on the area? I'm too new at work to ask for time off, especially for a TV delivery



I've got a delivery window that ends on June 3rd, mine hasn't even shipped yet. **sigh**
 
#48 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPOnion /forum/post/13905226


For those who ordered it on big river: Do they deliver on weekends or after 5pm? Or is it dependant on the area? I'm too new at work to ask for time off, especially for a TV delivery



I've got a delivery window that ends on June 3rd, mine hasn't even shipped yet. **sigh**

It depends on the local carrier. I ordered five days ago with a 12 day delivery time frame. Tracked it to my home town last night and got the call today confirming the best delivery time for me. Sometime between 9 and 11. Five days from order to door, and that counts the weekend. Not bad for free shipping.


My TV came from Big River's warehouse in PA and I live in Kansas City if that matters.
 
#49 ·
Waiting is killing me, how long does it usually take to ship a TV?


It was in Dallas (3 hrs away) all day yesterday, apparently it got here (Oklahoma) this morning at 6 o'clock. I hope the delivery people get it today so I can set up a delivery time for later today or tonight.


I am going to be pissed if it does not come until Thursday (the scheduled day) my home theater comes in tomorow, if I get that first I am going to stab someone.
 
#50 ·
I want to add a section to the FAQ on proper video settings for the PS3. Below is what I found to be the best settings. Seeking comments on it and other suggestions before I add it. Does anybody disagree with these settings, and why?

** Edited for corrections, now I believe RGB mode should be Limited and HDMI level low. Need to do more reading and testing tonight, hopefully other will confirm these settings. **

PS3 Recommended Display Settings:
From PS3 Settings->Display settings menu: (Note you can also adjust these while watching a movie by using the triangle button and going to the AV Display settings icon)
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White: On (Allows blacker than black and whiter than whites to be passed)
RGB Full Range: Limited (May be grayed out if using automatic above.) [Full is other choice]

PS3 Settings->BD/DVD Settings(Note you can also adjust this while watching a movie by using the triangle button and going to the AV Display settings icon)
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HMDI): Automatic [RGB, Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr are other settings] Note that on Auto, for Blu Ray's, it will send video as Y Pb, and for games and the XMB dashboard it will be RGB.

TV Settings:
Detailed Settings:
--- xvYCC: Off (On seems to make no difference to me. Only devices that use this anyways are some camcorders)
Picture Options:
--- HDMI Black Level: Low

With the RGB Full Range set to Limited, then the HDMI Black Level in the TV's Picture Options menu should be set to Low. Note that it may be grayed out during Blu Ray play if you have Video output set to Automatic, as it seems to default to using the Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr. To enable this menu item, you can set the PS3 video output format to RGB, and then you will be able to adjust this. Note that if everything is setup correctly, then there should be no difference between setting the PS3 output from RGB to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr. If there is, (i.e. the picture gets noticeably lighter or darker), then either the TV or the PS3 has an incorrect RGB range or HDMI black level setting. If you have the PS3 RGB range set to full, then the TV's HDMI Black Level should be set to Normal. However, this is only useful if you are connecting a PC source, and for connecting the PS3 to a TV, the correct setting is RGB limited.
 
#51 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPOnion /forum/post/13905226


For those who ordered it on big river: Do they deliver on weekends or after 5pm? Or is it dependant on the area? I'm too new at work to ask for time off, especially for a TV delivery



I've got a delivery window that ends on June 3rd, mine hasn't even shipped yet. **sigh**

Mine arrived today. They put it exactly where I wanted it after unboxing. They offered to take the box away, but I chose to keep it. Just in case. I tracked it to my city on Monday, they called twice to confirm delivery time (9-11AM window), and showed up at 9:15AM this morning. Use the tracking tool on Big River and when it arrives locally expect a phone call and plan to have someone at home the next day.
 
#53 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBeatnik /forum/post/13882404


Didn't know about the 360. Thanks for the info.


Component has been out way longer than 1080p and is probably not in the specifications. It will probably remain hit or miss as far as working. Since you can't upconvert regular DVDs over component (in most cases), and with everything moving to HDMI, I would not expect companies to try to upgrade an old technology.


Just my opinion though.

Lots of tvs and pc monitors accept 1080p over component. There is nothing magical about 1080p, its just another analog signal. PC monitors have been supporting higher resolutions than 1080p via component and vga years before the first 1080p HDTV sets started to appear. Most Samsung tvs that support 1080p input (including the 2007 LED sets) will accept 1080p over component with no issues. These 2008 sets also accept 1080p over component, but they tear and blank on occasion. That is what most people would say was a bug with this model, not some inherent issue with component. BTW, the PS3 is capable of outputting 1080p over component for games. In fact, the 20gb PS3 originally was going to ship without an HDMI port. When Sony was questioned about it by the press, they proudly proclaimed that component supported 1080p just fine.
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=55089

It was only after they changed the 20gb model to have an HDMI port did they try to suggest that only HDMI could support 1080p. It was just simpler to say "If you want 1080p, you need HDMI" than to try to explain "1080p for games, 1080i for Blu-ray, 480p for DVDs when using component because Hollywood studios are a bunch of paranoid idiots".
 
#54 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_pro /forum/post/13908772

RGB Full Range: Full (May be grayed out if using automatic above.) [Limited is other choice]

Full - Uses PC levels (0-255)

Limited - Uses Video levels (16-235)
 
#55 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R /forum/post/13910477


Full - Uses PC levels (0-255)

Limited - Uses Video levels (16-235)

Yeah, I know this. But, I figured that our displays are capable of 0-255, that that is what it should be set to. With this set, I then used the AVC HD disc (found here ) to adjust so that 16 and below is black and 235 and above is white. I think as long as you do that, then the setting is correct. Would you suggest otherwise? (In fact in Y Cb/Cr mode, I may change it to be Super white off, as I've found it a tad difficult to get contrast high enough so that whites above 235 are all the same)


What I'm not sure of, is if the brightness and contrast adjusted using the method described above is then appropriate for other sources, like cable or DVD. I need to test that, as I currently only use one input on the TV, and everything goes through the Onkyo 805 receiver. I may redo that so I use multiple inputs on the TV and can adjust the settings per input, which I think is really more ideal anyways.
 
#56 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_pro /forum/post/13910551


Yeah, I know this. But, I figured that our displays are capable of 0-255, that that is what it should be set to. With this set, I then used the AVC HD disc (found here ) to adjust so that 16 and below is black and 235 and above is white. I think as long as you do that, then the setting is correct. Would you suggest otherwise? (In fact in Y Cb/Cr mode, I may change it to be Super white off, as I've found it a tad difficult to get contrast high enough so that whites above 235 are all the same)

If you are displaying video encoded material Limited is the correct setting other wise you will be altering the image. There are many posts on the forums which explains the gory details.


Super White On allows the PS3 to display Blacker than Blacker and Whiter than White. Some content contains both which to keep things accurate they should be displayed accordingly.


Of course one is free to decide what one prefers versus maintaining an accurate image. I think the secret is setting both the PS3 and the set to how the source material is encoded. If all three aren't in sync the image will not be maintained.
 
#57 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBeatnik /forum/post/13881152


I don't think that no 1080p over component is a bug. I'm not aware of any consumer TVs that will accept 1080p over component. Or any consumer source that will output 1080p over component. I don't know whether that is a digital issue or bandwidth issue or what.

so you didnt even google 1080p over component before you posted that or what
 
#58 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tallen94 /forum/post/13910237


Lots of tvs and pc monitors accept 1080p over component. There is nothing magical about 1080p, its just another analog signal. PC monitors have been supporting higher resolutions than 1080p via component and vga years before the first 1080p HDTV sets started to appear. Most Samsung tvs that support 1080p input (including the 2007 LED sets) will accept 1080p over component with no issues. These 2008 sets also accept 1080p over component, but they tear and blank on occasion. That is what most people would say was a bug with this model, not some inherent issue with component. BTW, the PS3 is capable of outputting 1080p over component for games. In fact, the 20gb PS3 originally was going to ship without an HDMI port. When Sony was questioned about it by the press, they proudly proclaimed that component supported 1080p just fine.
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=55089

It was only after they changed the 20gb model to have an HDMI port did they try to suggest that only HDMI could support 1080p. It was just simpler to say "If you want 1080p, you need HDMI" than to try to explain "1080p for games, 1080i for Blu-ray, 480p for DVDs when using component because Hollywood studios are a bunch of paranoid idiots".

not trying to sound mean but (also not talking about you either the guy you quoted - BillyBeatnik)


exactly the guy who said he never herd of it and it isnt in the specs or something like that must not know what he is talking about, I wish people wouldnt just respond to something like that that not even doing a simple search to see if maybe TV's do accept 1080p over component, and things output it over component - less experienced readers might come across this and start spreading rumors to friends like sometimes I here about the massive problem with burn-in and how people I know wont get a Plasma because they herd this from someone that it is a big problem, but not so much anymore if you first take care of the TV in the first couple of weeks of having it - and some TV's have a refresh thingie to help "wash" this away


its simple all you got to do is google something first like say "1080p over component" before you respond saying "I don't think that no 1080p over component is a bug. I'm not aware of any consumer TVs that will accept 1080p over component. Or any consumer source that will output 1080p over component. I don't know whether that is a digital issue or bandwidth issue or what." - yea you just dont know what you are talking about period.
 
#59 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftkidney /forum/post/13913634


so you didnt even google 1080p over component before you posted that or what

Apparently not good enough. I should certainly have researched what components output 1080p over component. And I should have checked what TVs can accept 1080p over component.


My point, though, was that 1080p is not currently in the component standards, although I believe changes have been submitted to add it to the standard. In the absence of 1080p in the component standard, I'm not sure it can be considered a bug if it does not work correctly all the time.
 
#60 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R /forum/post/13912840


If you are displaying video encoded material Limited is the correct setting other wise you will be altering the image. There are many posts on the forums which explains the gory details.


Super White On allows the PS3 to display Blacker than Blacker and Whiter than White. Some content contains both which to keep things accurate they should be displayed accordingly.


Of course one is free to decide what one prefers versus maintaining an accurate image. I think the secret is setting both the PS3 and the set to how the source material is encoded. If all three aren't in sync the image will not be maintained.

So, you use/recommend RGB limited. What do you have for your TV's HDMI black level, Normal or Low? Seems like you would have to have it at Low to be correct.


After more reading, it seems RGB limited is what should be used, (even though on Automatic setting, it is moot as it will use Y Pb). Do you use Auto, Y Pb, or RGB?


It seems like what i did was use the combination of RGB Full, and black level limited, and used the AVCHD disk to adjust settings for white/black levels. I think I may have ended up with the same results, but with needless 0-255, 16-235 remapping. Not what i want for an accurate image.

I need to redo these settings and calibrations with RGB Limited, HMDI Black Level Low, and Superwhite on. I'll adjust my settings with AVCHD and check them out with some Blu Rays and games. (Aren't games typically RGB encoded? Not sure if this will make a difference, but maybe it will be handled by leaving it in Auto, and calibrating it for video space, which is my biggest concern).


Here's a great post explaining some of the settings.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post13048267
 
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