AVS Forum banner

Official LNxxA750 Calibration/Settings Thread

376K views 1K replies 302 participants last post by  Stevekw3134 
#1 ·
#102 ·
Hello all.


I have spent a few hours on this and here are some first thoughts.
  1. This is close to a full featured CMS, with the ability to move primaries and secondaries (within limits) as well as the ability to adjust luminance settings of each primary and secondary individually.
  2. Using blue filters, the 750's "Blue screen" feature, and my DTP-94 colorimeter results in quite different color settings. For example, using the Rec709 disc and the TV's "Blue Screen" feature, the color setting that looks right is 52. Using the blue filter that came with DVE, the setting is 47. And using my DTP-94, it is 45. However, because of the changes that can be made with the individual colors, the main color setting is only relative.
  3. Also doing basic calibration I get a significantly different brightness setting with the visual "basic calibration" on the Rec709 disc and the DTP-94 probe. The brightness settings using the disc alone are ~38, but I tested this with Near Black in ColorHCFR and black was crushed (and in using these settings while watching TV black looked crushed, too). The setting using the probe is 43-44 consistently.
  4. The results I obtained match with ColorHCFR and CalMAN.
  5. I'm getting CR values in the 1800-2000 range.


For those that just want settings to play with:


Firmware 1004


DTP-94 colorimiter probe


Pattern is Rec709 (Blu-ray), PS3.

PS3 settings

RGB LIMITED

YpBCr ON

YpBCR Superwhite ON

I show the PS3 setup to illustrate how the calibration was done. This is the only pattern generator I have. I take the settings and input them into my STB HDMI input. There are no "game" settings that will be coming from me.


Mode - Standard

Backlight - your choice (calibrations were done with 8, but that is just to get tighter readings at the low light levels. BL does not change calibration, so if you want a brighter or darker picture use BL, not Contrast and Brightness)

Contrast - 89

Brightness - 44

Sharpness - 50

Color - 45

Tint - 50/50


Detailed Settings

Black Adjust OFF

Dynamic Contrast OFF

Gamma - 0


Color Space - CUSTOM

R R45

G R43 G49

B G6 B57

Y R50 G48

C R61 G55 B50

M R46 G9 B61


Flesh Tone 0

Edge Enhancement OFF


White Balance

R- 26

G- 26

B- 23

R- 39

G- 27

B- 13


Picture Options

Color tone - NORMAL

Size JUST SCAN

Digital NR AUTO

Hdmi black level NORMAL


Auto Motion Plus YOUR CHOICE


Energy Saving OFF

For those that have ColorHCFR the file is attached




For those that don't have ColorHCFR here are some screens from the ColorHCFR run


Overall, the dE values are pretty good. The grayscale can be better, and even though it will be, I doubt it will be a difference that is visible.


I didn't capture a "before" of the CIE, but for those that have seen the 71's CIE, they are the same.


If anybody has CalMAN and wants that file, let me know.

 

750 RUN 4.zip 2.85546875k . file



 

Attachments

#104 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison /forum/post/14087878


Hello all.


I have spent a few hours on this and here are some first thoughts.
  1. This is close to a full featured CMS, with the ability to move primaries and secondaries (within limits) as well as the ability to adjust luminance settings of each primary and secondary individually.
  2. Using blue filters, the 750's "Blue screen" feature, and my DTP-94 colorimeter results in quite different color settings. For example, using the Rec709 disc and the TV's "Blue Screen" feature, the color setting that looks right is 52. Using the blue filter that came with DVE, the setting is 47. And using my DTP-94, it is 45. However, because of the changes that can be made with the individual colors, the main color setting is only relative.
  3. Also doing basic calibration I get a significantly different brightness setting with the visual "basic calibration" on the Rec709 disc and the DTP-94 probe. The brightness settings using the disc alone are ~38, but I tested this with Near Black in ColorHCFR and black was crushed (and in using these settings while watching TV black looked crushed, too). The setting using the probe is 43-44 consistently.
  4. The results I obtained match with ColorHCFR and CalMAN.
  5. I'm getting CR values in the 1800-2000 range.


For those that just want settings to play with:


Firmware 1004


DTP-94 colorimiter probe


Pattern is Rec709 (Blu-ray), PS3.

PS3 settings

RGB LIMITED

YpBCr ON

YpBCR Superwhite ON

I show the PS3 setup to illustrate how the calibration was done. This is the only pattern generator I have. I take the settings and input them into my STB HDMI input. There are no "game" settings that will be coming from me.


Mode - Standard

Backlight - your choice (calibrations were done with 8, but that is just to get tighter readings at the low light levels. BL does not change calibration, so if you want a brighter or darker picture use BL, not Contrast and Brightness)

Contrast - 89

Brightness - 44

Sharpness - 50

Color - 45

Tint - 50/50


Detailed Settings

Black Adjust OFF

Dynamic Contrast OFF

Gamma - 0


Color Space - CUSTOM

R R45

G R43 G49

B B6 B57

Y R50 G48

C R61 G55 B50

M R46 G9 B61


Flesh Tone 0

Edge Enhancement OFF


White Balance

R- 26

G- 26

B- 23

R- 39

G- 27

B- 13


Picture Options

Color tone - NORMAL

Size JUST SCAN

Digital NR AUTO

Hdmi black level NORMAL


Auto Motion Plus YOUR CHOICE


Energy Saving OFF

For those that have ColorHCFR the file is attached




For those that don't have ColorHCFR here are some screens from the ColorHCFR run


Overall, the dE values are pretty good. The grayscale can be better, and even though it will be, I doubt it will be a difference that is visible.


I didn't capture a "before" of the CIE, but for those that have seen the 71's CIE, they are the same.


If anybody has CalMAN and wants that file, let me know.

Hey Bud, so you finally got your 750??? One questions before I give these settings a try. Why is Sharpness at 50? I know it does not do much with an HD signal, but with most sets it is down in the 0-20 range. Anything different with this set?
 
#105 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad /forum/post/14088170


Hey Bud, so you finally got your 750??? One questions before I give these settings a try. Why is Sharpness at 50? I know it does not do much with an HD signal, but with most sets it is down in the 0-20 range. Anything different with this set?

I've found with noise reduction on a setting of low, that sharpness at 50 helps restore a little detail the noise reduction takes away, IMO the noise reduction on this set is quite awesome and really helps with eliminating excessive film grain when viewing BR or HD broadcasts that have a bit noise in them.
 
#106 ·
Again in my experience, using a setting of AUTO for noise reduction really modifies the image quite a bit, and generally applies a lot of NR robbing the image of detail. Unfortunately I've found that one needs to adjust the NR based on the content they're are viewing, maybe most people don't notice, but just a thing for me. The NR is one of the features that really sold me on this set.
 
#107 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ra004e /forum/post/14088354


I've found with noise reduction on a setting of low, that sharpness at 50 helps restore a little detail the noise reduction takes away, IMO the noise reduction on this set is quite awesome and really helps with eliminating excessive film grain when viewing BR or HD broadcasts that have a bit noise in them.

I will give it a try. Let me ask you, since you have turned on noise reduction, do you notice any increase in blur?
 
#109 ·
By any chance does anyone know what "FAN: ERR" means in the service menu? This line is in the "stats" box off to the side of the service menu. I would think it would mean "ERROR" but I'd like to get a more knowledgeable opinion before I get worried.


Also, what do other people's 750s say after "FAN: ???" in this stats box. I'm curious..


Another thing, why does the TV always lose the "Settings" when I go into the service menu and then turn my set off? What I mean is.. after I spend an hour adjusting everything in the Video menu.. all the picture settings, detailed settings, etc.. when I go into the service menu and don't even change a thing when I turn my TV off and then back on all the previous adjustments I made in the Video menu (i.e. all the "Movie" adjustments on all the inputs) are complete lost and I need to re-adjust everything all over again! This is VERY annoying. I mean I didn't even change anything in the service menu! What gives? Is there a proper way to exit the service menu aside from just turning my set off or something? Can someone please give me a lesson in service menu usage.


Thank you.
 
#110 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmike /forum/post/14090402


By any chance does anyone know what "FAN: ERR" means in the service menu? This line is in the "stats" box off to the side of the service menu. I would think it would mean "ERROR" but I'd like to get a more knowledgeable opinion before I get worried.


Also, what do other people's 750s say after "FAN: ???" in this stats box. I'm curious..


Another thing, why does the TV always lose the "Settings" when I go into the service menu and then turn my set off? What I mean is.. after I spend an hour adjusting everything in the Video menu.. all the picture settings, detailed settings, etc.. when I go into the service menu and don't even change a thing when I turn my TV off and then back on all the previous adjustments I made in the Video menu (i.e. all the "Movie" adjustments on all the inputs) are complete lost and I need to re-adjust everything all over again! This is VERY annoying. I mean I didn't even change anything in the service menu! What gives? Is there a proper way to exit the service menu aside from just turning my set off or something? Can someone please give me a lesson in service menu usage.


Thank you.

on any Sammy I've gone into service menu including my older HD CRT, it has always reset my user settings, just my experience. I've seen that FAN ERR on a 650 I was in it's service menu.
 
#112 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmike /forum/post/14090675


ra004e,


Does your 750 not have the "FAN: ERR" line when you go into it's service menu?

Sorry I can't remember, I want to say yes but not sure, have just set the calibration settings up from zerog6 and been loving that over the weekend. If you don't get an answer over next couple of days, I'm heading out of town and will go in service menu and let you know before I go. I don't think it's much of an issues as the 650 had that error and never had an issue, I suspect Sammy might have added fan control in firmware, but never ended up needing to add one, on BL setting of 4/5 I really can't believe how little heat this set produces. Again I'm just speculating on the fan thing as I have no way of confirming this. That being said there is a 650 service manual floating around the 650, you thread might want to grab that and see if anything come up there. I'll keep an eye on this thread over next few days, If you don't have an answer by then I'll check out my service menu and let you know.
 
#113 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 /forum/post/14085107


Yeah that's one thing I really can't make out. The Gamma curves just don't make sense. I don't know if it's the Spyder2, or if it was my inexperience. But after more and more time doing it, I figured it could be the spyder2 that doesn't measure gamma very well. Using the Spyder2 In order for me to get a 2.2 gamma curve, I have to turn gamma all the way down to -3 and lower the brightness even further. Doing that of course completely crushed the blacks, I couldn't even see the 4% black bars in the test patterns. So now i've settled on just eye-balling the brightness and gamma, which isn't that big a deal, it's probably the only thing they say is pretty accurate just by sight. If I measure it, my average gamma is 2.1.


I wanted to test the Contrast Ratio, but neither the DVE nor the AVS discs have a checkerboard pattern that you need to get the measurements


Later on when I get some free cash i'll re-sell the spyder2 and get myself an i1

interesting because when I used a spyder2 on my 5271 I also ended up getting the same crushed blacks, just like you. For brightness, at least on the 71 series, the first click where you can't tell a black screen is getting in any darker is one too many, that matches up with what eyeballing IRE bars tells. As for gamma, that's a bit hard to eyeball, but do what you can, or KJ or perhaps even myself may get some gamma settings posted (however, the sets, tentatively do appear to vary a little set to set).



interesting to see how my X94 probe does, so far I've only gotten to try it on a 244T, it certainly did the gamma differently than the spyder2 did, this monitor is very different than the 71 or 7 series though.
 
#114 ·
hmm why is the CIE chart so off?

red looks farther off than on the 71 and green, is closer, but now it looks undersaturated? Does the CMS not really work all that well? Wouldn't call it worse, but is it really much better than the 71 at all??


OTOH, you seemed to get 1300-1500 CR with your 71 and now you get 1800-2000 so I guess the CR really is 40% better?! (unless your 71 was poor copy). Do you think the CR increase is real? 40% is a pretty nice sounding improvement.


What do you think of the display, forgetting hard data? How does it compare to your 71 series?
 
#115 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ra004e /forum/post/14088354


I've found with noise reduction on a setting of low, that sharpness at 50 helps restore a little detail the noise reduction takes away, IMO the noise reduction on this set is quite awesome and really helps with eliminating excessive film grain when viewing BR or HD broadcasts that have a bit noise in them.

but that film grain is supposed to be there and by using DNR and then adding sharpness you are making stuff a little plasticky and then adding sharpening artifacts.


anyway to each their own but I 100% always have both settings to 0.

If you view a computer desktop, you can see what damage they do too if not zero.
 
#116 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 /forum/post/14091140


hmm why is the CIE chart so off?

red looks farther off than on the 71 and green, is closer, but now it looks undersaturated? Does the CMS not really work all that well? Wouldn't call it worse, but is it really much better than the 71 at all??


OTOH, you seemed to get 1300-1500 CR with your 71 and now you get 1800-2000 so I guess the CR really is 40% better?! (unless your 71 was poor copy). Do you think the CR increase is real? 40% is a pretty nice sounding improvement.


What do you think of the display, forgetting hard data? How does it compare to your 71 series?

I'm pretty sure he just hasn't finished setting it up. Here's one of mine: I've tried and tried, but I can't get enough green

 
#118 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 /forum/post/14091146


but that film grain is supposed to be there and by using DNR and then adding sharpness you are making stuff a little plasticky and then adding sharpening artifacts.


anyway to each their own but I 100% always have both settings to 0.

If you view a computer desktop, you can see what damage they do too if not zero.

I agree and usually leave the sharpness at 0, There are times when excessive film grain or noise can distract from viewing experience. I have not found the the plasticky look or sharpening artifacts when using low setting of DNR an turning sharpness up a little, I mentioned this because at times the DNR can be quite useful, but I think people think there are just set it and forget it on these sets even down to color calibration, and we can't forget how varied the sources are, even on Bluray or how bad compressed HD broadcast can be. I understand that we want to start with a proper reference, I've seen plenty of movie transfers where the the colorist got it completely wrong or they did not use right film stock ( and it wasn't for effect ) or what ever. After reading these threads there is a consensus to just turn DNR off, but I think it can be quite useful. Like you said to each their own and just wanted to add my experience that it might be useful for users at certain times.
 
#120 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Barteaux /forum/post/14087986


You have two settings for Blue in custom color space. What does this mean?

EDIT: It is a typo. I corrected it. Sorry.


I have two in the green space as well. It means that dialing in a little green moved the blue primary closer to spec. In the case of green dialing in a LOT of red moved the green primary closer to Rec709 CIE spec.


Mind you, this is only preliminary work. Maybe it is better to just leave the primaries as far "off" as they start out at. The chart is closer to spec, but it might not really look better.


This is one of the reasons I put these out there. So people can critique and those that have probes can measure. These sets are at least a little different though, so who knows whether my settings would a)look good to you and b)measure the same on your set as they do on mine.
 
#121 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad /forum/post/14088170


Hey Bud, so you finally got your 750??? One questions before I give these settings a try. Why is Sharpness at 50? I know it does not do much with an HD signal, but with most sets it is down in the 0-20 range. Anything different with this set?

It is at 50 because that is where Samsung had it. I didn't change it because I don't see that any setting of sharpness changes anything (at least not with HD). But my wife watches some SD, and maybe there it would be useful.
 
#122 ·
Has anyone utilized the Film mode function? This makes things look 3D I think based on the source. HD movies from DTV look AWESOME!! My settings are these:


Mode - MOVIE

Backlight - 7

Contrast - 87

Brightness - 40

Sharpness - 27

Color - 40

Tint - 50/50


Detailed Settings

Black Adjust medium

Dynamic Contrast OFF

Gamma - -2


Color Space - AUTO


Flesh Tone -1

Edge Enhancement - ON


White Balance

R- 25

G- 25

B- 25

R- 25

G- 25

B- 25


Picture Options

Color tone - NORMAL

Size 16:9

Digital NR medium

Hdmi black level NORMAL

Film Mode - AUTO

Auto Motion Plus - medium


Energy Saving OFF
 
#123 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 /forum/post/14091140


hmm why is the CIE chart so off?

red looks farther off than on the 71 and green, is closer, but now it looks undersaturated? Does the CMS not really work all that well? Wouldn't call it worse, but is it really much better than the 71 at all??


OTOH, you seemed to get 1300-1500 CR with your 71 and now you get 1800-2000 so I guess the CR really is 40% better?! (unless your 71 was poor copy). Do you think the CR increase is real? 40% is a pretty nice sounding improvement.


What do you think of the display, forgetting hard data? How does it compare to your 71 series?

I think the CR improvement is real.


With regards to the improvement in green, I don't know if it is better to move it to where it is or not. I know it is a smaller dE, so presumably it is "better".


When I said the colors could be adjusted with some limitations, I was talking about this issue with green mostly. The setting that moved green is increasing red in the part of the custom color menu involving green. Each of the 6 colors has adjustments that can be made in RGB, and these adjustments seem only to effect the one particular color. In other words by increasing the amount of red in green, the green primary moved closer, but the behavior of red on the other colors was not effected.


Overall I think the color flexibility of the 750 is much superior to the 71. The fact that the color adjustments in the 71 (My Color Control) had no effect is what got me a new 750 in fact. Not TBE or stutter. It is superior and much more complex. So there are probably a lot of "in between" settings that can be tried.


Blacks are better on the 750, as indicated by the better CR.


Clouding is a little more prominent on the 750, but only a little. I am waiting to get a feel for whether my set is average, worse, or better in this regard before I see about exchanging.


I think viewing angle on the 750 is not as good as the 71. My wife and I sit on a 3 person couch, and I notice more of a dropoff from the center position than I noticed with my 71. This is about 15 degrees, if memory serves.


Bottom line: Better blacks, better CR, better color management

More clouding, worse viewing angle

Motion blur about the same, but no TBE (although I havent done the acid test, namely the eagle chase in Planet Earth yet) I didn't get stutter with my 71 except maybe on ABC, TNT, and TBS. I have an episode of Lost on my DVR, and the place that stuttered with the 71 still stutters with the 750, and turning AMP off stops it. The same place doesn't stutter on my Sony HDTV CRT.
 
#125 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer /forum/post/14092026


Any reason you choose Color tone - Normal instead of Warm2?


I though Warm2 was the closest to 6500k right off the bat?

Well, I havent tested warm2 or even warm1 for that matter. My experience with my 71 is that these are just starting points, and when you adjust the grayscale you end up in the same place. Warm1 or 2 just means you need lower red offset and red gain; and higher blue offset/gain settings. (EDIT: assuming you want an overall color temp of 6500. Maybe there are other temps to calibrate to. I only know what little I know from Tom Huffman's postings. However, his calibration guidance is for sets with full CMS that can be made on spec)


Besides you are limited to Movie if you use any of the warms.


Still, I do plan to test them to see if there is some advantage.


None of the settings calibrate to anything even close to a good grayscale right off the bat. In my experience.

EDIT: I'll run a set of measurements for each temp setting at factory default settings and post the results here when I get a chance.
 
#126 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison /forum/post/14093743


That is great looking. What settings did you use for this?

This is the custom color space i'm using right now: WARM-2

Color Red

Red: 49

Green: 0

Blue: 2

Color Green

Red: 32

Green: 55

Blue: 0

Color Blue

Red: 0

Green: 6

Blue: 74

Color Yellow

Red: 50

Green: 47

Blue: 0

Color Cyan

Red: 25

Green: 50

Blue: 50

Color Magenta

Red: 43

Green: 0

Blue: 67
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top