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Plasma Vs. LCD

24K views 251 replies 64 participants last post by  Woodrow 
#1 ·
Hello all, So I've JUST begun my look into a new TV, I'm still running on my old legendary rear-projection Sony 52" BOX-tv lol. I'm sorta a newbie when it comes to this sort of stuff, so I would really appreciate any help I can get from you guys on this stuff!


I'm looking for a LCD or Plasma, that's 1080P, and I've also heard something about 120Hz, with the LCD's so I'm not sure what that's about so if someone could gimme clarification on that as well, that would be cool...


Size at this point isn't super important, anything bigger than 35" and up to about 60". I'm looking to spend about $1500-$2000 on the TV, and I'm wondering what do I need to know, what are good tv's to get Plasma or LCD, that would be the best quality in my price range. And any info that would help me out along the way, I really do appreciate any help you guys can give!!


Oh and also I have an X-Box 360, so I will be playing a ton of NHL 09/Halo 3 on this TV, so if that factors in as well, if you could help me out with suggestions taking that into account as well. Thanks a bunch!
 
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#2 ·
I'm going to say go with the Samsung 52" 550 or Samsung 40" 750,they're LCD. Make sure you get the right size for your viewing distance.
 
#5 ·
As a previous unhappy owner of a Panny Plasma and returned last week from vacation being forcefed a Viera POS for ten days this is what I detest about Panny Plasma as one that owned and would never own another even if offered up for free! I won't follow the herd of the Plasma Fanboys to a turd again. Yes they are CHEAP but so are the results IMO and experience!


The Panny Plasma has it's STRONG deficiencies IMO:
  • Dirty Yellow Gray WHITES - in fact no true white! Illusionary blacks - notice the smoked glass guys that diminish the whites.
  • Daytime Washout - Glare! If you have daytime SUN forget any dark video games or movies.
  • Reflective panel 24/7 to shave in and inventory the contents of your room.
  • Dull and Dim compared to a quality LCD.
  • No Shadow Details in those BLACKS.
  • Cartoonish Greens and periodic green tint and fringe around objects and trails.
  • Blurry inferior SD
  • Mine had ZERO WoW factor even at 50" vs. the SXRD I had previous to it and my current 57" Sharp.
 
#6 ·
With a budget up to $2000 check out the Sasmung LNXXA630 or LNXXA650. Just place 46 or 52 in the XX for screen size. The 650 has more of a glossy screen and one more HDMI input, both are great choices and imo the best value.


If you prefer Sony you'll have to stick with 46" as they are priced a little higher but check out the KDL46W4100 or KDL46Z4100.
 
#7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 /forum/post/15094690


As a previous unhappy owner of a Panny Plasma and returned last week from vacation being forcefed a Viera POS for ten days this is what I detest about Panny Plasma as one that owned and would never own another even if offered up for free! I won't follow the herd of the Plasma Fanboys to a turd again. Yes they are CHEAP but so are the results IMO and experience!


The Panny Plasma has it's STRONG deficiencies IMO:
  • Dirty Yellow Gray WHITES - in fact no true white! Illusionary blacks - notice the smoked glass guys that diminish the whites.
  • Daytime Washout - Glare! If you have daytime SUN forget any dark video games or movies.
  • Reflective panel 24/7 to shave in and inventory the contents of your room.
  • Dull and Dim compared to a quality LCD.
  • No Shadow Details in those BLACKS.
  • Cartoonish Greens and periodic green tint and fringe around objects and trails.
  • Blurry inferior SD
  • Mine had ZERO WoW factor even at 50" vs. the SXRD I had previous to it and my current 57" Sharp.

How many years ago did you have this bad experience with the Panny Plasma? Two? Three? What was the model number? Was it the PX60U series by any chance? And it wasn't even 1080p like the current models right? It seems like you've been ranting about it for at least a few years now in dozens of threads but it's no longer pertinent to the current models. The current Panasonics are better than the ones they made 2-4 years ago and don't have many of the problems that you had with your older model way back when. The glass is less reflective, they're brighter and have more pop now, they have better shadow details, greens are better (they were bad before), and they display SD better than any top-of-the-line LCD i've ever seen at varioius friends' and associates' and family members' homes.
 
#8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 /forum/post/15094690


As a previous unhappy owner of a Panny Plasma and returned last week from vacation being forcefed a Viera POS for ten days this is what I detest about Panny Plasma as one that owned and would never own another even if offered up for free! I won't follow the herd of the Plasma Fanboys to a turd again. Yes they are CHEAP but so are the results IMO and experience!


The Panny Plasma has it's STRONG deficiencies IMO:
  • Dirty Yellow Gray WHITES - in fact no true white! Illusionary blacks - notice the smoked glass guys that diminish the whites.
  • Daytime Washout - Glare! If you have daytime SUN forget any dark video games or movies.
  • Reflective panel 24/7 to shave in and inventory the contents of your room.
  • Dull and Dim compared to a quality LCD.
  • No Shadow Details in those BLACKS.
  • Cartoonish Greens and periodic green tint and fringe around objects and trails.
  • Blurry inferior SD
  • Mine had ZERO WoW factor even at 50" vs. the SXRD I had previous to it and my current 57" Sharp.

I have to go with Randy on this one and I hope you at least answer his questions and hopefully mine for the bonus round.



I wonder how you would have felt with a Pioneer Kuro instead, especially the new ones from this year?


Which Panasonic plasma did you own? I thought you were always hardcore LCD without ever missing a beat so you ever owning a plasma at all surprises me right off the bat.


The newer Panny plasmas (800u and 850u) never fail to turn my head in a store or pretty much everyone else's for that matter.


They're some of the most colorful and brightest TV's in the store even amongst most of the LCD's set in torch mode, which is really saying something.


Believe me, I've been about as wary of plasma as anyone could possibly be, but I'll be damned if I'm not seriously considering either a Pioneer Kuro or a Panasonic 800u/850u.



I'm no plasma defender by any means, but your list of complaints here honestly has me wondering if


1.) You had a defective set

2.) Needed calibration

3.) Did you buy a lower end Panny or last year's model or what? How old was this set? What model was it?


We need a LOT more details!




I've seen Sharp LCD's...they're hit and miss at best. I've been kind of surprised at the worshipful glow you've given Sharp and the Sharp you bought which is pretty decent but IMO I think you could have done better, friend.


I think Sharp is a fairly medicore brand myself.


Personally, I wouldn't touch Sharp with a ten foot pole.



I'm really not trying to grill you hard, but fence sitters like me are watching all of this with avid interest.
 
#9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 /forum/post/15094690


As a previous unhappy owner of a Panny Plasma and returned last week from vacation being forcefed a Viera POS for ten days this is what I detest about Panny Plasma as one that owned and would never own another even if offered up for free! I won't follow the herd of the Plasma Fanboys to a turd again. Yes they are CHEAP but so are the results IMO and experience!


The Panny Plasma has it's STRONG deficiencies IMO:
  • Dirty Yellow Gray WHITES - in fact no true white! Illusionary blacks - notice the smoked glass guys that diminish the whites.
  • Daytime Washout - Glare! If you have daytime SUN forget any dark video games or movies.
  • Reflective panel 24/7 to shave in and inventory the contents of your room.
  • Dull and Dim compared to a quality LCD.
  • No Shadow Details in those BLACKS.
  • Cartoonish Greens and periodic green tint and fringe around objects and trails.
  • Blurry inferior SD
  • Mine had ZERO WoW factor even at 50" vs. the SXRD I had previous to it and my current 57" Sharp.


What an informative, up to date post.
 
#10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 /forum/post/15094690


As a previous unhappy owner of a Panny Plasma and returned last week from vacation being forcefed a Viera POS for ten days this is what I detest about Panny Plasma as one that owned and would never own another even if offered up for free! I won't follow the herd of the Plasma Fanboys to a turd again. Yes they are CHEAP but so are the results IMO and experience!


The Panny Plasma has it's STRONG deficiencies IMO:
  • Dirty Yellow Gray WHITES - in fact no true white! Illusionary blacks - notice the smoked glass guys that diminish the whites.
  • Daytime Washout - Glare! If you have daytime SUN forget any dark video games or movies.
  • Reflective panel 24/7 to shave in and inventory the contents of your room.
  • Dull and Dim compared to a quality LCD.
  • No Shadow Details in those BLACKS.
  • Cartoonish Greens and periodic green tint and fringe around objects and trails.
  • Blurry inferior SD
  • Mine had ZERO WoW factor even at 50" vs. the SXRD I had previous to it and my current 57" Sharp.

Considering how freaking outdated your 57" Sharp D90 is and all current panasonics are reviewed to be better than even the newest Sharp (non LED) you must have been looking at a 5 year old panasonic so your whole argument is totaly FUD and should be ignored as such.
 
#12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rykerabel /forum/post/15098641


Considering how freaking outdated your 57" Sharp D90 is and all current panasonics are reviewed to be better than even the newest Sharp (non LED) you must have been looking at a 5 year old panasonic so your whole argument is totaly FUD and should be ignored as such.

I wonder if he'll ever come back and respond to Randy's or my questions.
 
#13 ·
I am also considering either LCD or plasma to replace my Panasonic LCD RPTV.

So far I am leaning towards LCD, Sony 52" W4100. Main usage will be regular TV, movies, HD and gaming: Wii, PS2, PS3. After reading through the various threads, reading about input lag, reflection etc. W4100 is what I am considering. I really liked XBR6, but it is a bit too expensive.

Before making final decision, what can be said about plasma for my type of usage ? Is there a plsma model that I am overlooking ? I checked in the stores and I am really confused - all the TVs look almost same, most of them don't have HD feed or are badly configured.


Thanks !
 
#14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters /forum/post/15095485


How many years ago did you have this bad experience with the Panny Plasma? Two? Three? What was the model number? Was it the PX60U series by any chance? And it wasn't even 1080p like the current models right? It seems like you've been ranting about it for at least a few years now in dozens of threads but it's no longer pertinent to the current models. The current Panasonics are better than the ones they made 2-4 years ago and don't have many of the problems that you had with your older model way back when. The glass is less reflective, they're brighter and have more pop now, they have better shadow details, greens are better (they were bad before), and they display SD better than any top-of-the-line LCD i've ever seen at varioius friends' and associates' and family members' homes.

I have had the TH-50PZ80U in my living room for about a month I agree with 75% of what westa6969 has said. In particular, these statements:

Quote:
# Dirty Yellow Gray WHITES - in fact no true white! Illusionary blacks - notice the smoked glass guys that diminish the whites.

# Daytime Washout - Glare! If you have daytime SUN forget any dark video games or movies.

# Reflective panel 24/7 to shave in and inventory the contents of your room.

# Dull and Dim compared to a quality LCD (in daylight)

# ....fringe around objects and trails.

And before anyone asks, the settings used were taken from the calibration thread for this particular model. I notice fringing in fast-moving white objects (Rock Band is a very good example of this when the notes turn white for combos), the blacks do not look black if there is any outside light source (which is a problem for me, limited space in my apartment), and it's reflective as hell. It's almost like a mirror most of the time.


I am currently trying to decide if I should just keep it since everyone 'claims' it's better, or go for a Sony W4100 and chance it with possible backlight bleed\\flash light issues.
 
#15 ·

Quote:
Oh and also I have an X-Box 360, so I will be playing a ton of NHL 09/Halo 3 on this TV, so if that factors in as well, if you could help me out with suggestions taking that into account as well. Thanks a bunch!

Oh and also I have an X-Box 360, so I will be playing a ton of NHL 09/Halo 3 on this TV, so if that factors in as well, if you could help me out with suggestions taking that into account as well. Thanks a bunch!
Quote:
I am also considering either LCD or plasma to replace my Panasonic LCD RPTV.

So far I am leaning towards LCD, Sony 52" W4100. Main usage will be regular TV, movies, HD and gaming: Wii, PS2, PS3. After reading through the various threads, reading about input lag, reflection etc. W4100 is what I am considering. I really liked XBR6, but it is a bit too expensive.

Before making final decision, what can be said about plasma for my type of usage ? Is there a plsma model that I am overlooking ? I checked in the stores and I am really confused - all the TVs look almost same, most of them don't have HD feed or are badly configured.


Thanks !

Hey guys, I'm new like you. I've done a ton of research on input lag, and I've gotten lots of feedback from several members here as well as other places.


If you're a serious gamer, your best bet for LCD is the w4100 or z4100. However, I've chosen plasma simply because there is little lag. If you go to Best Buy or some place, and you stare at a plasma while using your peripheral vision to look at other HDTVs, you'll notice that the other televisions are a hair behind the one you are staring at.


Also, from what I have researched, you want to look for blacks. Blacks are what matter most because they give you more realism - most colors are equal in terms of all TVs. However, plasmas have a more saturated color. LCDs are brighter in that sense.


Other features you may want to factor:

PC connection

Viewing angle

Glare avoidance

Swivel stand

Matte / glossy


All I can say is do your homework from all over the place. Here, CNet, Amazon.com, BestBuy.com, CircuitCity.com, Buy.com, etc. Read all the reviews on the televisions that are you in price range, and decide on a couple of models, and then go to the store and look at it from your viewing distance to see if that will be okay for you.


Hope this helps.
 
#16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism /forum/post/15096118


What an informative, up to date post.

I have to agree with several points that Westa made. First the brightness of plasma is still not up to where it should be. This makes it difficult for me to justify using it in any area where I will be getting reflections and have high light level.


When I walk into a electronics store and look at the TV section from across the store, I can tell from the front door which is a plasma and which is a LCD. Westa is correct, whites should look white.


Reflections off the screen also annoy me. He is correct when he says that given enough ambient light you can shave with one.


The shadow detail issue is a thing of the past I think with respect to the two technologies. They seem fairly even now in that respect (LCD lagged on that one for a long time).


Color on plasma is great, problem is we go back to the brightness and the color looses it's pop in my eyes without some brightness behind it.


I am looking forward to seeing the Neo PDP panels in action.
 
#17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooey /forum/post/15100030


If you're a serious gamer, your best bet for LCD is the w4100 or z4100. However, I've chosen plasma simply because there is little lag. If you go to Best Buy or some place, and you stare at a plasma while using your peripheral vision to look at other HDTVs, you'll notice that the other televisions are a hair behind the one you are staring at.


Also, from what I have researched, you want to look for blacks. Blacks are what matter most because they give you more realism - most colors are equal in terms of all TVs. However, plasmas have a more saturated color. LCDs are brighter in that sense.


Other features you may want to factor:

PC connection

Viewing angle

Glare avoidance

Swivel stand

Matte / glossy

Sony is a good choice for a set without gaming lag. Sharp is also good in this respect. Samsung I have heard some issues with gaming lag and may be good sets overall but are not good for lag.


For a long time I would say that for a gamer one of the most important issues was shadow detail, plasma still had an edge. I think that with the last gen of LCD this gap is almost gone, plasma still might be better here.


Most new sets are going to have some kind of PC connection. Viewing angle is overrated, IMO. Matte screens are good, they cut the reflection and glare which is helped by a brighter image.
 
#18 ·
I reluctantly bought an LCD, and it does make me more at ease that I won't damage it during a long gaming session. However, I'm also really frustrated by how the backlight washes out dark scenes, and if I was to pick again on the merits of PQ, I'd get a Pioneer Kuro. LCD black levels and uniformity just aren't up to snuff IMO.
 
#20 ·
I've read in other topics here the Samsung 650 has input lag problems and as it'll be mainly used for gaming that's a big problem. Unless those other topics were wrong?
 
#21 ·
In defense of Westa I have to say that many of his comments certainly apply if you have a bright room. All plasmas are beautiful in a darkened room, and the new Pannie and Kuro do indeed turn heads. But if you are in a brightly lit room then those same plasmas wash out and the color loses its vibrancy and beauty. Further, even with the improvements in reflectivity, any light source will produce irritating reflections unless you are very careful in your lighting placement and keep to an dim viewing environment.


Plasmas do have their place, but they can be oversold and do not fit every environment. LCD's are much more flexible in their placement and a good one will certainly outperform plasma in a daylight atmosphere.


So Westa is still right on with much of what he says, and we all need to keep a little perspective.
 
#22 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegaz /forum/post/15101555


I've read in other topics here the Samsung 650 has input lag problems and as it'll be mainly used for gaming that's a big problem. Unless those other topics were wrong?

I guess I'm not quite sure what lag is in terms of gaming. We've(my 7 yr old) has been playing Motorstorm and NHL 09 on the PS3 as well as a bunch of Wii games and I haven't noticed anything out of sorts so far. We have the Sammy 650 plasma.
 
#23 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooey /forum/post/15100030


Oh and also I have an X-Box 360, so I will be playing a ton of NHL 09/Halo 3 on this TV, so if that factors in as well, if you could help me out with suggestions taking that into account as well. Thanks a bunch!


Hey guys, I'm new like you. I've done a ton of research on input lag, and I've gotten lots of feedback from several members here as well as other places.


If you're a serious gamer, your best bet for LCD is the w4100 or z4100. However, I've chosen plasma simply because there is little lag. If you go to Best Buy or some place, and you stare at a plasma while using your peripheral vision to look at other HDTVs, you'll notice that the other televisions are a hair behind the one you are staring at.


Also, from what I have researched, you want to look for blacks. Blacks are what matter most because they give you more realism - most colors are equal in terms of all TVs. However, plasmas have a more saturated color. LCDs are brighter in that sense.


Other features you may want to factor:

PC connection

Viewing angle

Glare avoidance

Swivel stand

Matte / glossy


All I can say is do your homework from all over the place. Here, CNet, Amazon.com, BestBuy.com, CircuitCity.com, Buy.com, etc. Read all the reviews on the televisions that are you in price range, and decide on a couple of models, and then go to the store and look at it from your viewing distance to see if that will be okay for you.


Hope this helps.

That's good advice..."Do your homework from all over the place". Take for instance an email newsletter I received yesterday (11/17/08) from an electronic display industry news service Display Daily titled "Off-Axis Color Performance Suprisingly Poor in Top LCD Displays". A very detailed article, and a real eye opener if you don't mind the pun!
. I'm not going to do your homework for you, so if interested please take the time to read it.
 
#24 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q of BanditZ /forum/post/15095663


I have to go with Randy on this one and I hope you at least answer his questions and hopefully mine for the bonus round.



I wonder how you would have felt with a Pioneer Kuro instead, especially the new ones from this year?


Which Panasonic plasma did you own? I thought you were always hardcore LCD without ever missing a beat so you ever owning a plasma at all surprises me right off the bat.


The newer Panny plasmas (800u and 850u) never fail to turn my head in a store or pretty much everyone else's for that matter.


They're some of the most colorful and brightest TV's in the store even amongst most of the LCD's set in torch mode, which is really saying something.


Believe me, I've been about as wary of plasma as anyone could possibly be, but I'll be damned if I'm not seriously considering either a Pioneer Kuro or a Panasonic 800u/850u.



I'm no plasma defender by any means, but your list of complaints here honestly has me wondering if


1.) You had a defective set

2.) Needed calibration

3.) Did you buy a lower end Panny or last year's model or what? How old was this set? What model was it?


We need a LOT more details!




I've seen Sharp LCD's...they're hit and miss at best. I've been kind of surprised at the worshipful glow you've given Sharp and the Sharp you bought which is pretty decent but IMO I think you could have done better, friend.


I think Sharp is a fairly medicore brand myself.


Personally, I wouldn't touch Sharp with a ten foot pole.



I'm really not trying to grill you hard, but fence sitters like me are watching all of this with avid interest.

No sense in even responding to Westas comments.

Or especially ask him how he feels about the Kuro's.

Just do a search thru the LCD/Plasma/Flatpanel Forums for posts from him with the word "Kuro" as your keyword.

You will see right away how many times he has bashed Kuro.

Regardless to the fact that he has never owned one (or anything other than a dinosaur panny plasma that he probably didn't know how to calibrate correctly)

He goes on and on about how awful plasma is and bases all of his misinformation on his brief encounter with an old (probably non-1080p) panasonic. Yet the closest he has probably been to a Kuro is a 2 minute walkby in Bestbuy with his mind completely closed before he even looked at it.


The fact that he bashes what is regarded by most calibrators, magazines, and videophiles as the best television availible, yet considers his mediocre Sharp to be so great, just goes to show how much he really knows about flat panels.

Having a closed mind is sad in my opinion, because you miss out on so much.
 
#25 ·
You can't make generalizations anymore.


My plasma is much less reflective than most Samsung LCDs.


Reviews have said the Kuros are just as good or better than some high-end LCDs in bright environments.


New plasmas easily meet calibration standards for white. Which means if you have your TV calibrated an LCD won't be any more "white" than a plasma. I don't want to start an argument about preferences vs standards, just making the point.
 
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