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Sony VPL-HW10 Owners AND Calibration Thread

182K views 785 replies 161 participants last post by  Russell White 
#1 ·






Congratulations to all the new HW10 owners. Welcome to the VPL-HW10 Calibration & Projector Functions thread.


As you begin to contribute your posts to this thread, may I offer some suggestions...


- Please limit posts to the asking/answering of calibration and projector function questions. This thread is likely to grow larger, so anything we do to keep posts on topic, will help this thread better serve HW10 owners looking for info.


- Please consider posting your final setting values on the any user or service menu controls you change, and if available, also post pics of your grayscale and color tracking pre/post calibration.


- Feel free to post or PM HW10 info links to me and I will add them to the link list below.


- "HW10" Screen shots are also welcome.




HW10 Information Links:

Sony VPL-HW10 Just Arrived Thread For HW10 discussion not related to projector functions & calibration.

Sony VPL-HW10 Review! NEW CORRECTED CONTRAST! by Jason

Sony VPL-HW10 Review 12/01/08 - Art Feierman

Sony VPL-HW10 Review AVForums Video Review

Sony VPL-HW10 Projector Central review Bill Livolsi, November 7, 2008

1080p Projector Shootout: Panasonic PT-AE3000 vs. Sony VPL-HW10 Bill Livolsi, November 12, 2008

Projector Central List of Highly Rated & Editor's Choice Projectors

AVForums - Sony VPL-HW10 SXRD Projector Review

Sony VPL-HW10 Owners Manual Page at eSony

CNET Review

Trusted Reviews

Digital Trends Review

Projector Central HW10 Specs

Gadget Speak Review

What HI-FI Review

More Expert Reviews - Links

Sony VPL-HW10 Just Arrived!

HW10 Thread

HW10 - NEW SXRD Projector

New Sony projector VPL-HW10

What would you chose for same Price - Panny AE3000 and Sony VPL-HW10?

Sony VPL-HW10 vs VW60

Sony VPL-HW10 vs Panasonic AE3000

Sony VPL-HW10 vs Panasonic AE3000 2

VW100 vs VW10 vs Epson 7500

HW10 or W60 Thread

Sony VPL-HW10 vs JVC RS10

HW10 vs. Mits HC5500 and HC5600

Sony VPL-HW10 Projector Comparison XLS file

Sony VPL-HW10 Press Release pdf

Sony VPL-HW10 Press Center Info

Sony VPL-HW10 Sony Style Product Info

Sony VPL-VW60 Tweakers Thread

Sony VPL-VW40 Tweakers Thread

AVS Contrast Thread - Now with Dynamic Contrast Results! by Mark Petersen A great technical calibration read.

How to properly calibrate using color bars



My review of the HW10

Let me begin with a few cons...


- No Gamma Curve adjustments via Sony's Image Director. Not something most folks would miss, but still a valuable tool for calibrating a perfect white balance and gamma 2.2 track. Sony should have offered some basic low/mid/high gamma adjustments on the HW10 if ID software was not going to be supported.


- Limited 2D CMS color correction with the Sony RCP tools. However, very few projectors offer true 3D CMS calibration, so it's a common color correction challenge. Sony should also make RCP settings part of the USER Picture profiles, so different RCP tweaks could be automatically selected for the main PICTURE settings, HIGH, MID, LOW, USER 1, USER 2 & USER 3.


- Price is a little high when compared to competition, although many will appreciate where the extra $$$ has gone as far as image quality. I anticipate prices will begin to decline in the new year, not especially welcome news for early adopters, but should be good for potential buyers in the new year.

Now the Pros...


- This HW10 is quiet, even in HIGH lamp mode, which I now prefer. In Low Lamp Mode, you might not know the HW10 is even on unless you move close to listen.


- The screen position controls are in the perfect spot for easy access, and while I think they could be beefier, they do the jobs just fine.


- Native, ANSI & ON/OFF contrast are excellent. We are reaching a point where most people would be happy with the contrast performance of the HW10. Certainly as manufactures continue to expand the panels' native contrast, the benefits will be appreciated. However, I could live with the HW10 performance without regret. I assume it will only be the viewing of more dynamic projectors in the future that will cause me to upgrade. But coming from my Sony HS51A, Infocus 7200 and NEC HT1000 experiences, the HW10 is simply awesome.


- Black levels are excellent in both the Auto Iris, Manual Iris and Iris OFF modes. Obviously many folks will go for the maximum ON/OFF contrast of the auto iris modes, but I recommend folks also explore when running Manual Iris and Iris OFF will be appropriate. For instance, put up a 100% gray pattern, and dial back the Manual Iris for good screen illumination, and let it ride. The native contrast of the SXRD panels is pretty impressive.


- Auto Iris, while not flawless, is very good. Auto 1 and Auto 2 provide different ranges of Iris function, and the FAST, SLOW & RECOMMEND settings expand user control over Auto Iris operation. I believe there are benefits to some service mode tweaks of the auto iris tracking, but only for very marginal benefit.


- Panel shading uniformity is excellent. I have now had close observation of two projectors, and while the HW10 I now have has perfect uniformity, the Best Buy bought HW10 was excellent. Most folks would never be able to see the difference, and those picky about uniformity would have happily accepted the Best Buy HW10 shading calibration. If all HW10s have the range of uniformity I have observed on these 2 HW10s, Sony is doing a great job at the factory.


- Convergence is another big area of concern as we can run larger screen sizes for our seating distances. Sony's sub-pixel convergence capability is awesome. My 2 HW10s required different degrees of convergence correction, with my AVS bought HW10 requiring more. But the correction was fast and easy and provides perfect edge to edge convergence. IMHO, all projectors at or above the HW10 price point should have onboard convergence controls to correct for RGB panel alignment errors.


- The HW10 has just enough panel sharpness for my eye, without being prone to SDE as I see on some LCDs. Some projectors try to mask the pixel structure to reduce SDE, but at the cost of relative sharpness. The HW10 seems to strike a very nice balance. I assume the quality of the HW10 lens is both a benefit to the level of perceived clarity, as well as a hinderance to any additional clarity available from the SXRD panels. However, I think it's a good balance of extreme possibilities in performance and extra cost for a better lens.


- Chromatic Aberration on the HW10 is excellent. This is a testament to the quality of the lens and an extension of the sharpness/clarity observation mentioned above.


- Uniformity of focus across the screen is excellent. Again a benefit of a good lens, that even while the image is being sent thru the very edge of the lens, the edge to edge focus is still excellent.


- White Balance tracking from the factory, while not perfect was very good. I found the Custom 1, 2 & 3 color temps required very modest tweaks for very flat 9500/8000/6500K WB tracks. Some improvements could be made if the Image Director software was available for GAMMA tracking adjustments, and while I am sad more perfect tracking can't be achieved, the current capability is acceptable. However, Sony would show great wisdom if the provided a HW10 software/firmware update to enable use of the ID 3 software.


- Dynamic Iris and video processing is nearly transparent on the HW10. I would note I needed just a slight WB track adjustment when switching from Iris OFF (initially used for calibration) to any of the other Iris modes, but the adjustment was a click at the top and the bottom . Very impressive considering my experience with the HS51A and what it's DI/video processing did to the WB track from top to bottom. As I note below, dropping the contrast to enabled a flat WB right up to 100%.


- Contrast/Brightness/Color/Hue are spot on out of the box for a 16-236 video luminance range. Dropping Contrast from the factory default to is required to help flatten WB at 100%, but otherwise Sony should get high marks for the factory calibration of the HW10. Many folks will not see a need for custom calibration.


- Color reproduction is excellent. While CMS calibration is hindered, the HW10 is very good right out of the box. The WIDE color mode was pretty evenly spaced outside a HD Rec709 triangle, so dialing back the master COLOR to reduce saturation works very well with WIDE color mode. The Normal color mode was not as accurate, but acceptable. A happy balance can be achieved using the limited 2D CMS capability of the RCP controls. I was able to get a good HD Rec709 CIE track for all but RED, with the HW10 in the WIDE color mode. I dialed in RCP settings for 6500k and 9500K.


The HW10 is an excellent projector, especially for the price. While there are things Sony could do better, such is the case with any projector. However, Sony has paid attention to the basics which affect the raw performance of the projector, especially performance out of the box. For those owners who are inclined to tinker, Sony should consider a software/firmware update to enable Image Director 3 software. RCP should be linked to the main (6) PICTURE banks and the limited 2D CMS controls should be upgraded to a true 3D calibration control.


I am glad I upgraded and look forward to many happy hours of HT viewing on the HW10.



Calibration Suggestions



Here are my calibrations as of 11/26/08: Get Gray SD-DVD via Panasonic 55K HDMI, CalMAN & i1 Pro for calibration.


Contrast 89

Brightness 50

Color 50

Hue 50

Sharpness 0

Gamma 3

Auto Iris 1 = Recommend

Black Level OFF

Lamp HIGH

NORMAL color mode


.......Custom 3.....Custom 2.....Custom1

........6500K..........8000K.........9500K...


RG......(1).............(0)..............(-2)

GG.....(-1)............(-4).............(-2)

BG.....( 5).............(5)..............(8)

RB......(1).............(-2)............(-2)

GB.....(5)..............(4)..............(3)

BB....(-11)...........(-11)............(8)




Calibration numbers for tweaking Custom 4 color temp:


contrast = 90

brightness = 50


RG 6

GG -8

BG 4

RB -8

GB -4

BB -18


Here are some pics of color gamut and white balance tracks for the adjustments above. Again, Get Gray 75% RGBCMY on a HD REC709 triangle.




.....

VPL-HW10 2-1

Section 2

Electrical Adjustments


. Note that when the items (W/B, Device Adjust) that can

be adjusted in the Service mode are adjusted and stored

in memory, they are saved in NVM and the factory

default data will be lost.

Be sure to perform Save to memory after entering and

exiting the Gamma adjustment mode. If the values are

changed in the Gamma adjustment mode and you want

to reset to the original value, turn off the power of the

unit and turn it on again. The UF data does not change

even if the mode for Advanced Iris in Cinema Black Pro

in Picture Adjust is changed without performing Save

to memory. When Save to memory is performed at

that time, the UF data of each Iris mode will be overwritten

and lost.
2-1-3. Model Name Display (Shop

Demonstration) Mode Setting


1. If the menu is being displayed, press the [MENU]

button to close the menu.

2. Press the buttons within 5 seconds in the following

order:

Enter, Up, Down, Enter.

Even if the message Not applicable! is displayed,

ignore it. If the key operations failed, wait for at least 6

seconds since the last key is pressed, and perform the

key operations again.

3. Do you wish to display the model name? Yes No is

displayed.

4. Select Yes.

n

To exit the Model Name Display mode, perform step 2.

Do you wish to display the model name? Yes No is

displayed. Select No.
2-1. Preparations

2-1-1. Required Equipment


. Oscilloscope

Tektronix 2465 or equivalent

(bandwidth: 350 MHz or more)

. NTSC, PAL, SECAM component signal generator

Tektronix TG2000 +AVG1 (optional module) +AWVG1

(optional module) or equivalent

. VG (Programmable video signal generator)

VG849C or equivalent

. Digital voltmeter

Advantest TR6845 or equivalent

. Luminance meter

. Chrominance difference gauge

n

Perform the following adjustments at least 15 minutes after

turning on the power.
2-1-2. Service Mode Setting

1. Set the Status to On in the Setup MENU.

2. Close the menu by pressing Menu if its displayed.

3. Press the buttons in the following order in 5 seconds:

Enter, Enter, Left, Enter.

4. The message Do you wish to enter into the

SERVICE MODE? Yes No will be displayed.

5. Select Yes.

n

When leaving the SERVICE MODE, perform item 3.

Do you wish to return to the USER MODE? Yes No

will be displayed. Select Yes.


VPL-HW10 2-5
2-3. White Balance Adjustment on

Servicing

Preparation


Set Picture Mode to Cinema and make the following

settings.

Contrast: 90

Bright: 50

Color: 50

Hue: 50

Sharpness: 5

NR: OFF

MPEG NR: OFF

Black Level Adjust: OFF

Gamma Correction: Gamma 1

Advanced Iris: OFF

Lamp Control: High

Color space: Normal

Set each GAIN and each BIAS for RGB to 128.

Bring the ZOOM position of the lens to the center.
Adjustment

High


Set Color Temp to High.

Input 1080/60i 20 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the

HDMI1 terminal and adjust BIAS of white balance for R

and B until the chromaticity (x20, y20) satisfies the

specification.

(x20, y20) = (0.284 }0.002, 0.298 }0.002)

Input 1080/60i 80 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the

HDMI1 terminal and adjust GAIN of white balance for B

and G until the chromaticity (x80, y80) satisfies the

specification.

(x80, y80) = (0.284 }0.002, 0.298 }0.002)

Repeat the adjustments at 80 IRE and 20 IRE until the

specification is satisfied.

Save the adjusted values.
Middle

Set Color Temp to Middle.

Input 1080/60i 20 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the

HDMI1 terminal and adjust BIAS of white balance for R

and B until the chromaticity (x20, y20) satisfies the

specification.

(x20, y20) = (0.294 }0.002, 0.314 }0.002)

Input 1080/60i 80 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the

HDMI1 terminal and adjust GAIN of white balance for B

and G until the chromaticity (x80, y80) satisfies the

specification.

(x80, y80) = (0.294 }0.002, 0.314 }0.002)

Repeat the adjustments at 80 IRE and 20 IRE until the

specification is satisfied.

Save the adjusted values.
Low

Set Color Temp to Low.

Input 1080/60i 20 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the

HDMI1 terminal and adjust BIAS of white balance for R

and B until the chromaticity (x20, y20) satisfies the

specification.

(x20, y20) = (0.313 }0.002, 0.329 }0.002)

Input 1080/60i 80 IRE flat field (RGB 3 color) into the

HDMI1 terminal and adjust GAIN of white balance for B

and G until the chromaticity (x80, y80) satisfies the

specification.

(x80, y80) = (0.313 }0.002, 0.329 }0.002)

Repeat the adjustments at 80 IRE and 20 IRE until the

specification is satisfied.

Save the adjusted values.


2-6 VPL-HW10
Custom

Set Gain and Bias for CUSTOM 1 to 4 to the following

values.

CUSTOM 1: Copy the Gain and Bias values for High.

CUSTOM 2: Copy the Gain and Bias values for Middle.

CUSTOM 3: Copy the Gain and Bias values for Low.

CUSTOM 4: Set the Gain and Bias values for R/G/B to

128.

Save the set values.
Iris: Auto1/Manual Adjustment

Switch the Iris mode to Auto1. Manual. Copy all of the

white balance adjustment values (High, Middle, Low, and

all of the Gain Bias values of CUSTOM1 through CUSTOM4)

at Iris OFF, to the corresponding Iris mode values

respectively.

Save the set value.
2-4. IRIS Adjustment

(1) Bring the ZOOM position of the lens to the center.

(2) Input the XGA 60Hz all white 100IRE signal in

INPUT-A.

(3) Set Other: 01 Iris/Adj of Device Menu to 1.

(4) Set the value of Other: 02 Iris/Open Reg to 1023,

and check the value of Other: 04 Iris/Open Hall.

(5) While decreasing the value of Other: 02 Iris/Open

Reg, check the value of Other: 04 Iris/Open Hall.

(6) When the value of Other: 04 Iris/Open Hall reaches

the value of [step (4) value _25], check the value of

Other: 02 Iris/Open Reg.

(7) Save the value of Other: 02 Iris/Open Reg of step (6)

in a memory.

(8) Measure the luminance level at this time. [OFF

Luminance]

(9) Set the value of Other: 03 Iris/Close Regequal to

that of Other: 02 Iris/Open Reg of step (6).

(10)While decreasing the value of Other: 03 Iris/Close

Reg, check the luminance level. Check the value of

Other: 03 Iris/Close Reg when the luminance level

reaches 32% of [OFF Luminance].

(11)Save the values of Other: 03 Iris/Close Reg of step

(10) in a memory.

(12)Return the value of Other: 01 Iris/Adj to 0, and

perform Save to Memory.

2-5. Panel Driver Gain B Adjustment

(1) Input the XGA 60Hz Blue Only 100 IRE signal in the

INPUT-A terminal.

(2) Set the Panel Driver: 03 P. Drv/Gain B value to 85.

(3) While measuring luminance at the center of the screen,

decrease the 03 P. Drv/Gain B value. Take note of the

03 P. Drv/Gain B value when luminance reaches

maximum.

(4) Save the 03 P. Drv/Gain B value of step (3) in a

memory.

(5) Perform Save to Memory.
 
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7
#253 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan /forum/post/15160794


If the pj is expecting PC and you give it Video levels then you would need to lower brightness and increase contrast to compensate. The lowered black level expands the input 16 to display 0, the raised white level expands the input 235 to display 255. I understand that, my Sharp 12KII has that bug.


How does raising the black level and lowering the white level compensate for getting a narrower range than the display device is expecting? If the display is expecting 16 for black and it gets 0 how does a raised black level compensate? If it expects 235 and it gets 255 how does a lowered white level compensate?

The display is compensating for getting a wider range (0-255) ... It is calibrated out of the box for 16-235 levels. ...


So If the display sees 16 as black on the factory levels (0 is blacker than 16) then you will need to raise the brightness to compensate


By the way ... arent we talking about the projector getting a wider range than its expecting?
 
#256 ·
Hello All,


Wow, I spent some time playing with the Eye 2 and HCFR- Colorimeter.


So How do you convert the ColorHCFR file to a j-peg? So I can post some pic's.


I have the before and after files.


There some things which I don't quite understand.


1. My Gamma is below 2.2. How do you boost it??


2. The second part I had trouble with the Delta E part. I didn't quite understand how to adjust the colours.


But I found my overall picture very close to Byte's last posting.


Thanks,


Gezza.
 
#257 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GezzaZ3 /forum/post/15162479


I spent some time playing with the Eye 2 and HCFR- Colorimeter. Gezza.

Hi Gezza


Please visit the AVS calibration forum at the link below. There is a HCRF specific thread that might help resolve all of your questions regarding that software.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=139


You can adjust the gamma curve track by using GAMMA 1 & 2 to take it higher, and GAMMA 3 to take it lower. While my examination of the gamma tracks was brief, Gamma 3 provided the proper track in CalMAN. The OFF, Gamma 1 & 2 all had the track run higher than 2.2. Your observations could be based on the Eye 2 probe, and the calibration forum would help you get a better understanding of what to expect from the Eye 2 probe.


Other Sony SXRD projectors offer the Image Director software which allows for custom gamma curve editing. I have put in a formal request for a software or projector update to allow the HW10 to use the ID 3 software. I have not yet gotten a yes/no answer, so I have hopes an update could be forth coming.


Delta E. The RGB Gain affects the higher luminance range more, while the RGB Bias affects the lower range more. So depending on where RGB values are elevated or dip along the 30-100% grayscale range, you either work toward balance from the bottom or the top. There is also an interaction with the top/bottom balancing of the other colors. It takes some time and experimentation for you to gain some insight into what adjustments to make to get the flattest WB track, or the lowest Delta across the grayscale. What you will eventually see, is there is usually more than one way to get a good WB track, but only one way to get a great WB track. Because we can't cheat and use the ID3 software, perfection is a little tougher to achieve, but it can be achieved.


My 6500K WB track is a good example of settings that need just a little more work. However, the i1Pro I am using to calibrate is not the best at lower luminance levels of 20% and below, and that's where I need to focus my final tweaks. Once I have the Chroma 5 properly profiled to the i1Pro, I can tweak away at the lower end of the grayscale with assurance I'm getting accurate feedback from the probe.


It's also important to understand there are compromises with various calibration setups. The Eye 2 is less expensive and is less accurate. However, there is also a level of accuracy well above my gear, so my measurements could be better. Like all things in life, you need to strike a balance between cost and performance. The Eye 2 & HCRF is a terrific value, but understanding it's limitations will help you focus on the probes strengths, and again this is where seeking advice in the calibration forum would be very helpful.
 
#258 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnust /forum/post/15159114


From what I can see, the hw10 does not switch to compensate for video and pc levels. When I use my PS3 connected through hdmi and switch it's hdmi out setting between video- and pc-levels there is an obvious difference in black level. If the hw10 compensated automatically I guess there would be very little difference.

does the ps3 re-handshake when you switch between pc and video levels??


i don't know otherwise how the display would know the levels had changed.
 
#260 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan /forum/post/15164196


What does a display set to Video Level (16-235) do when it receives a 0, 1, 2...15?


How does manually increasing the black level ( from 50 to 69 ) compensate?

When it recieves 0-15 it would clip (at brightness 50) ... so by raising the brightness to 69 (66 in my case) the 0-15 levels can now be displayed.


So if brightness 50 means level 16 is perfectly black... then level 15 will be blacker than black and wont display...But raise the brightness to 51 and now 16 is not perfect black so it will accept a level lower and display it...
 
#261 ·
I had more time today to spend in front of my hw10 and I compared my pre and post calibration settings again with some different movies and I must say that I prefer my post calibration settings now. The pre-calibration settings have a greenish cast to them when comparing (as is visible in the RGB-graphs I posted earlier) I also think that the hit in CR the calibration made is so small that I now prefer my D65 setting. I will calibrate for higher color temps as well as that could be handy from time to time.


As to contrast and brightness levels. I came to the values I reproted by calibrating against the black-bar and white-bar testpattern on the AVS HD 709 disc. I set my values so that level 16 is just visible and level 235 is just visible, below and above that my signal is clipped. I'm not sure if I should adjust contrast/brightness with the auto-iris on or off. With it on I get Contrast 72 and Brightness 69, with auto-iris off I get contrast 73 and Brightness 67. The image has a little more pop to it with the second set of settings but it's not a big difference of course. Do you guys set contrast/brightness with auto iris on or off?


Someone pointed out that my test with ouputting video and pc levels from my ps3 might have been flawed by not allowing the ps3-hw10 to handshake between the switches in level. I retested this tonight and made sure that I cycled input on the hw10 after changing the setting on the ps3. I also tried turning the ps3 off then on after changing the range setting. It made no difference. Either the hw10 does not automatically adjust for video and pc-levels or the PS3 is not playing by the book. In fact, I have not been able to get my ps3 to output btb nor wtw using the AVS HD 709 disc (which could of course explain why the hw10 does not autoswitch). I have tried with the black bar and white bar pattern on AVS HD 709 disc and there is no data outside the 16-235 range. Does anyone know whats up with this? I have a fairly recent firmware version in my ps3 (2.1?) which I assume should be able to output btb and wtw.


EDIT: cleaned up last paragraph.
 
#262 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbickle /forum/post/15165217


When it recieves 0-15 it would clip (at brightness 50) ... so by raising the brightness to 69 (66 in my case) the 0-15 levels can now be displayed.


So if brightness 50 means level 16 is perfectly black... then level 15 will be blacker than black and wont display...But raise the brightness to 51 and now 16 is not perfect black so it will accept a level lower and display it...

The brightness settings do not map directly to video levels, the scales are different. Brightness and contrast controls go from 0-100, video levels are 16-235 (or 0-255). So even if the notion that "0-15 levels can now be displayed" is true, you've actually increased the black levels by a much large amount than just "0-15". Did you set these using a test pattern, i.e. a gradient ramp showing black/white levels?


I have a VW40 and would guess that it's pretty similar to the HW10. I've found that the difference between using 16-235 and 0-255 from my HTPC is noticeable, but slight. The defaults of brightness = 50 and contrast = 90 have been very close to perfect for just about all cases for me. Maybe a few points up or down, but nothing significant. YMMV.

Quote:
Do you guys set contrast/brightness with auto iris on or off?

You should do your calibrations with the iris off.
 
#264 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDLIVE /forum/post/15168083


The brightness settings do not map directly to video levels, the scales are different. Brightness and contrast controls go from 0-100, video levels are 16-235 (or 0-255). So even if the notion that "0-15 levels can now be displayed" is true, you've actually increased the black levels by a much large amount than just "0-15". Did you set these using a test pattern, i.e. a gradient ramp showing black/white levels?


I have a VW40 and would guess that it's pretty similar to the HW10. I've found that the difference between using 16-235 and 0-255 from my HTPC is noticeable, but slight. The defaults of brightness = 50 and contrast = 90 have been very close to perfect for just about all cases for me. Maybe a few points up or down, but nothing significant. YMMV.




You should do your calibrations with the iris off.

I know the scales are different.. I was just trying to make a point that one had to Raise the brightness to compensate for lower black levels... Yes this is done with a Gradient ramp. The first post in the this thread has an excel sheet from a French Review site which has their calibration settings (Brightness and Contrast) for 0-255 levels which concur with our settings..
 
#265 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbickle /forum/post/15165217


When it recieves 0-15 it would clip (at brightness 50) ... so by raising the brightness to 69 (66 in my case) the 0-15 levels can now be displayed.


So if brightness 50 means level 16 is perfectly black... then level 15 will be blacker than black and wont display...But raise the brightness to 51 and now 16 is not perfect black so it will accept a level lower and display it...

A display set to Video Levels is supposed to clip values below video 15, it never attempts to display them. Changing the black level via the brightness control will not cause the display to output clipped values.


If your display is expecting Video levels(16-235), do not feed it PC levels, the mismatch cannot be compensated with the brightness and contrast controls.


If your display is expecting PC levels(0-255), and it gets Video levels, it can be crudely compensated for by lowering brightness and raising contrast.


The Sony automatically handles PC and Video levels over HDMI so there should not be any issue except for user error.
 
#266 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven /forum/post/14961783


Initial report on my HW10 viewing tonight.


- My Screens: My HT front area is all black with medium dark taupe for sides walls and ceiling, almost a bat cave. I have a pulldown Da-Lite HP 92" 16x9 diagonal. Behind the pull down screen, I have a slightly smaller ultra white painted screen. I tend to use the HP for personal viewing and the painted wall screen when I have a full house, because illumination is better at extreme angles with the painted wall. There is a very slight color shift between the two, but I usually calibrate for the HP.


Some comparisons to my Sony HS51A 720p projector: Right off the bat I noticed a couple of things.


- Resolution of HW10 1080p is awesome. I view the 51A on the 92" 16x9 screen from about 12', and screen door is visible starting at around 11'. The HW10 pixel structure is not visible until within 6', leaving me alot of room to start moving my seat closer during private viewing. I might also note I was checking out a RS1 and 1080UB at a local theater shop today. The appearance of screen door was just a little more pronounced on the Espon, and the pixel structure was hard to make out on the RS1. I thought the RS1 looked like it might employee a little pixel hiding trickery and tended to make for a slightly soft image compared to the 1080UB. The HW10 pixel structure seems a happy balance.


- Contrast: The HW10 is obviously darker in dark scenes and brighter in bright scenes than my HS51A. The HW10 is way darker when the iris is dialed closed in manual mode from (50) to (0). This suggests some tweaking of the service menu AUTO Iris controls might expand performance during dark scenes. The controls are there under the OTHER menu of the service menu. In addition, the HW10 intra-scene ANSI contrast is better than the HS51A, and the AE3000 is likely to be even better. IMHO, this the remaining area SXRD could use some improvement, and the reason I thought I should check out the AE3000 and maybe even the RS10. Could I live with the HW10 contrast performance? Absolutely. Especially if some AUTO IRIS tweaks might further darken up the low APL scenes. I should check out those OPEN/CLOSE REG & OPEN/CLOSE HALL controls right now.


- Grayscale/White Balance out of the box: While I have not taken any measurements yet, but to my eye the grayscale tracking of the SD-DVD AVIA Pro 5 IRE cross horizontal step pattern was excellent for all the color temps and IRIS settings. Quite a dramatic improvement from my pretty well calibrated HS51A, especially when the HS51A is in AUTO IRIS mode. I think I could leave the HW10 factory grayscale settings "as is". Also, I saw no evidence of video processing induced white balance errors with the HW10 under AUTO IRIS. WHEW! Some of the early IronMan cave scenes are a good test for such white balance errors. Sin City is another good test.


- Grayscale/Gamma Shading Uniformity: I put up the HW10 service menu GAMMA screens and all but the brightest (11) looked perfectly balanced to my eye. The brightest (11) screen had a very, very slight shift to blue on the right 1/3 of the screen while the left 2/3s of the screen were balanced. But again it was very slight and something you might not even notice unless you were looking for it, which I was. . I could live with it, but I thought it worth mentioning.


4) Gamma: Like the RS1 I saw today, the HW10 needs just a little custom GAMMA work to maintain best black levels without suppressing shadow detail. I have yet to extensively play with GAMMA. However, the HW10 PICTURE/GAMMA controls might be my 1st area of complaint. I'm not keen on the way Sony arranged the controls for GAMMA 1, 2, 3 & OFF as well as how gamma is adjusted by each step. I like it better when the GAMMA increases in steps from the OFF position. The GAMMA settings are not logical as they seem to be 1=(+1) 2=(+2) 3=(-1) OFF=(0). The way the control settings progress, you don't get to see the gradual application of gamma curve changes. Me no likey. 3, OFF, 1 & 2 would have been a better set up.


- Motion Blur Testing for 24p/60p: I was testing 1080p24 & 1080p60 tonight on the HW10 using the IronMan scene where the camera pulls back from the Stark's cliff house. It's the scene soon after the reporter/sleep over wakes up. In this case, 1080p60 was smoothest and cleanest. The 1080p24 showed just a bit of vertical judder on horizontal lines as the camera pulled back. I need a better test sample to really figure it out 24p for the HW10, 55k and DVDO Edge. Please recommend a good sample for testing motion blur.


- Screen Positioning Controls: This is an area where I don't know what Sony was thinking. I use a high shelf for placing the projector in an up right orientation. Unfortunately, the HW10 screen movement range is compromised when the projector is right side up and high on a shelf. While there was room to raise/lower the screen, room to move the screen side to side was compromised. The projector is designed to be inverted to get full range of the positioning controls. I ended up needing to skew the projector direction to properly adjust for side to side screen position. A fix would be to rig a way to mount the HW10 inverted on my rear shelf area. I might note my HS51A does not have this problem, but it also doesn't a big chunk of glass hanging on the front.


- Sound: The HW10 in high lamp mode is quieter than the HS51A in low lamp mode. Thank you Sony!


- Bright Corners: As Jason has said, if you look for them, you can barely see them, so not a problem.


- Is there a Sub-Service /Service Menu? I say this because it seemed like there were some things missing from the service menu controls. For instance when you look into the service menu W/B color temp settings for HIGH/MEDIUM/LOW, they all read 128 across the board for RGB bias/gain. Hello? While I expected the USER color temp controls to all read (0), the service menu color temp controls usually have a range a values reflecting the differences in color temp. Is this the same for other Sony SXRD projectors?


- Side Mount Connections: I share Stainless-Steels's sentiments in that I'd rather have the connection in the rear. It's workable, and I'm sure many other folks like the side mount connections.


- Hmmm, what else...I guess that's it for now. I'm gonna go watch Troy on BG. I'll post anything else that jumps out at me, and I will follow up on how the AE3000 compares late next week.


Feel free to ask me for things to check out on the HW10.


Cheers


RJ

Hi, Guys!


I am back on this PJ fun game.


My Sony 12HT is OK, low hours (250) on the lamp but it lacks of HDMI (actually hooked up to a Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray player through component cables 1080i) and I really see the difference on picture between my recent purchased Bravia 52" LCD TV KDL XBR 6.


The HW10 could be the replacement PJ in my set up and since I have been out of this game for years I will like have you opinion based on my current system.


1. 92" 16 x 9 Drapper 1.3 gain fix screen (white)


2. Short throw distance 11.5 ft.


3. Total dark room


4. Ceiling mounted installation



Questions:


1. Can I still use the actual Sony PSS-10 ceiling mount for the HW10


2. Is my 1.3 gain white screen suitable for the HW10


3. Is current location - short throw distance OK for the HW10


4. Is there any other considerations I should know to upgrade from my Sony VW12HT


Thanks!
 
#267 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk /forum/post/15152716


It's actually a short to mid...definitely not long. Long throws typically cost more I think is the main reason (at least for a good one). That is why with many companies it is an additional cost to get long throw.

Hi, Guys!


I am back on this PJ fun game.


My Sony 12HT is OK, low hours (250) on the lamp but it lacks of HDMI (actually hooked up to a Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray player through component cables 1080i) and I really see the difference on picture between my recent purchased Bravia 52" LCD TV KDL XBR 6.


The HW10 could be the replacement PJ in my set up and since I have been out of this game for years I will like have you opinion based on my current system.


1. 92" 16 x 9 Drapper 1.3 gain fix screen (white)


2. Short throw distance 11.5 ft.


3. Total dark room


4. Ceiling mounted installation



Questions:


1. Can I still use the actual Sony PSS-10 ceiling mount for the HW10


2. Is my 1.3 gain white screen suitable for the HW10


3. Is current location - short throw distance OK for the HW10


4. Is there any other considerations I should know to upgrade from my Sony VW12HT


Thanks!
 
#269 ·
Icecubed,


I read your prior comments about improvements with the 10HW over the 10HT. I have a 10HT too and I'm considering the 10HW as well as the Panny 3000 for it's replacement. Did you consider the Panny 3000 as well, if so why did you pick the HW10?


Any additional commments on what you're seeing with the 10HW versus the 10HT?


I have a 120" 16:9 Grayhawk screen in a light controlled room and it is plenty bright enough for me in high mode until the bulb gets 800-900 hours on it. Projector is mounted about 14' from screen. Nice to hear that the 10HW is brighter so maybe I can use the low mode with it?


Thank you.
 
#270 ·
that's a big screen to drive w/ a 10HT.

i started off w/ a 92" greyhawk, then replaced the

material w/ (then new) original 1.3 gain first gen firehawk

because the greyhawk just seemed too dark even at cinema black turned off.


the things i noticed:


1) much better black levels and contrast over the 10ht

(i had done all the tweaks w/ cc40 filters, color probes, and

adjust drive voltages, etc and got to a lofty contrast of 280 or so on the 10ht).

the hw10 is a huge improvement.


2) going from a greyhawk to the 1st gen firehawk let me run

the 10ht in cinema black mode. my new hw10 is much quieter than the 10ht

(even in cinema black mode).


i can't hear the hw10 in cinema pro mode (low bulb/low fan)


the greyhawk was overkill for the 10ht and even more so for the hw10.


that said, i'm noticing sparklies due to the screen material and

increased projector resolution. i'm told this problem

goes away w/ the new generation of firehawk materials

if my projector has a longer throw (currently at 1.5)


i'm looking at a series of upgrades in the next calendar year.

the first will be to replace the white ceiling tiles w/ black

and the second will be to go to a larger screen probably

w/ the studiotek 3g material


lastly:


got rid of the annoying overscan inherent in the 10HT.


(1.85 actually shows as 1.85 instead of 1.78)


and the hdmi accepts input from my laptop w/o dropping into a 4:3 aspect ratio.
 
#271 ·
Icecubed,


Thanks for the info!


My theater room is a bat cave with the screen wall and side walls going back 13' covered in black indoor/outdooor carpet with a flat black painted ceiling also going back 13' separated by an overhead ceiling beam in a 30'X17' room. Sounds odd I know but it actually looks very professional and works well with the projector and 7.1 sound.


I have a Stewart Studiotek screen (1.35 gain I think?) that I can use with a new projector too, don't know yet what kind of match it would be for the 10HW?


The 10HW sounds great and I'm looking at the Panny 3000 too.


Thanks.
 
#272 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lcubed /forum/post/15174446


guelin,


the hw10 should be fine in your situation.

very nearly plug and play (other than requiring a new hdmi cable).

i went from a 10ht to the hw10 on a 92" firehawk w/ the projector

mounted at 11'.


i thinking about a larger screen.


Icecubed,


Thanks for your comments!


What ceiling mount you have? Were you able to install the new HW10 where you had the 10HT?

 
#273 ·
i'm using a chief mfg rpa020 mounted w/ a lense to screen throw distance of 131" for a 92" screen.


(it's exactly the same location used for the 10HT. i'm using just a bit of horizontal offset since the 10HT lense is off-centre. for the curious, the HW10 (in an inverted position), can vertically shift both above and below the horizontal plane of the lense, so the projector does not need to line up w/ the top of the screen.



the material is first generation firehawk and i'm noticing some shimmering on large solid fields

which i hadn't noticed using the 10ht. looks like the increased resolution interacting w/ the first gen material.


the firehawk sst material apparently was developed to counteract this at short throw distances.

i'm thinking of doing a bat cave type treatment on that end of the room and using the

studiotek g3 material. can't currently does this now due to reflections off the white ceiling tile.

(the firehawk material doesn't seem to be affected by the ceiling reflection)
 
#275 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silviu /forum/post/15084742


Just a quick update, for those considering using the serial interface to control the HW10.


It works great. The document I posted earlier has the codes for pretty much everything you would want to manage on the projector. The translation made things a bit difficult at times, but once you figure out the protocol, it's easy.


I use an HTPC and Girder, but any HT integration solution should work fine.


The HW10 replaced an older Sanyo PLV-60HT and the difference is huge. I'm glad I made the move...

This is awesome news, indeed. Are you using an MSC-400 to control the HW10? (this type of controlling is new to me, so please bear with me). If so, I have a feeling it's going to be a huge ramp up trying to figure out how to use presets and such to program into what I want...
 
#276 ·
what is the iris?
 
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