I created a this thread in an effort to create a FAQ/Information section to post in the Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread and hopefully add to the first informational post in that thread.
Please feel free to add any additional or missing information you think might be helpful.
Please keep in mind that this is meant to be a mostly factual and informational discussion and keep the discussion limited to this scope.
I think this will help reduce some of the repetitive questions/discussion with regards to input lag and gaming while still allowing us to keep the information and questions within Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread.
I want to make it clear that my hope and intention is NOT to create a separate and ongoing thread/discussion from the owners thread but rather collaborate in providing a single point (within the Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread) to answer a great majority of the questions with regards to the A650 and input lag / gaming.
Perhaps this will strike a happy medium for all looking for information regarding the LNXXA650.
Here is what I have so far.
=======================================================
Gaming
The A650 can be great for gaming but you should understand a few of it's features in order to configure the A650 for the best performance or picture quality based on your preferences.
If you are playing games that are not affected by input lag or if you have no concern for it, you will likely want to use either standard or movie mode as this will give you the greatest control over the picture quality. If this is the case, you can feel comfortable using any input (or input type) to help you obtain the picture quality that best meets you viewing preference.
If you are playing games that are affected by input lag or if you do have concern for it, you will want to read the section below regarding input lag and use one of the methods described to reduce/eliminate it. Those options will allow you to bring the A650 into the same realm of performance offered by your typical computer monitor. Please note that using any of those methods eliminates some of the settings available to you and may require a sacrifice in picture quality. This is the result of reducing signal processing in order to achieve faster response times.
Below are a few specific notes for the major consoles.
Xbox 360 - The Xbox 360 is capable of outputting 480P, 720P or 1080P. The Xbox 360 (unlike the PS3) will upscale the source (game/dvd) to the resolution set in the display settings section on the Xbox system console. As described below, you may want to set your Xbox to output 1080P, if you would like to take advantage of the HDMI2/PC feature. If you are using the HDMI2/PC feature and you have the Xbox set to output 480P or 720P, the A650 will disable the PC mode feature and return to normal operation (and therefore increase the signal processing time). If you are using your Xbox 360 and HDMI2/PC, you may want to set Reference Levels (under Display on your Xbox console to "Expanded".
The other options (Game mode or VGA) to reduce input lag are discussed below. A VGA connection is available for the Xbox but requires you to purchase an additional adapter.
This adapter can be found here .
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/
It typically costs $30-$40.
Please note that it appears the Xbox 360 must be in 1080P for the 650 to accept the signal. If the Xbox 360 is set to 480P or 720P the 650 will return a message stating "mode not supported".
Playstation 3 - The PS3 operates different from the Xbox 360. The PS3 will output the source format. This means that, if you are playing a 480P or 720P title (game/dvd), and trying to utilize the HDMI2/PC feature it will not work and will not reduce the signal processing (input lag).
Wii - I don't have one. Anyone have any input?
Input Lag
There are a few important things to understand about the A650 with regards to input lag.
Normal, Standard and Dynamic (to a lesser degree) modes offer significant control over the picture settings and therefore increase signal processing. Therefore these settings increase the time the A650 takes to process a signal and display it. This delay (or signal processing time) are what "input lag" refers to. Under normal modes (Normal, Standard and Dynamic) this delay can range from 40ms to 120+ms depending on your settings. This is typically only relevant (noticeable) in games with a significant dependence on accurate timing of controller actions. Examples of these types of games are first person shooters (Call of Duty, Halo, etc), music games (Rockband, Guitar Hero, etc.) and some sports or fighting games (MLB, Madden, Street Fighter, etc.).
This signal processing time (Input Lag) can be reduced through various features of the A650 or by using specific connection setups. Each of those options are discussed below.
VGA Connection - This option eliminates nearly all signal processing because it assumes you are using a personal computer and that processing is taking place by the computer hardware (graphics card). Since it eliminates nearly all signal processing, it also disables many picture settings (due to eliminating that portion of the processing) and limits the control the A650 has over the overall picture quality. Based on testing, this offers the best results in eliminating input lag.
VGA mode typically reduces input lag to 0-8ms.
Please note, 480P (720x480 or 702x480) and 720P (1280x720) do not work with VGA and return the message "mode not supported".
Also, many 16:9 and 16:10 resolutions would not display properly on the 650 and returned a "mode not supported" message.
The following resolutions did work.
640x480
800x600
1024x768
1280x1024
1360x768 (wasn't expecting that to work; very close to a 16:9 resolution)
1776x1000 (detected as 1920x1080)
HDMI2/PC - This is accomplished by connecting your gaming console to the HDMI2 input and then going into the menu and under the the Input section selecting Edit Name. Once in the Edit Name menu, you select HDMI2 and change the name to PC. This enables a special mode only available to the HDMI2 input that is similar (but not identical) to the VGA connection described above. It eliminates some signal processing (and therefore control of some picture settings) just like the VGA connection.
HDMI2/PC mode typically reduces input lag ranging from 6-60ms. You must pay special attention to your configuration when trying to optimize HDMI2/PC.
There is one important feature to note for the HDMI2/PC mode. When using this "feature" it will not work for any source the A650 senses as providing a 480P or 720P signal. This applies to the Wii, the PS3 (for non 1080P titles and Blu-Ray 24Hz), the Xbox 360 (if not set to display 1080P) or any computer providing a 480P or 720P resolution. Under these circumstances, the A650 will disable the PC mode feature and return to normal processing making all settings for Standard, Movie, Dynamic and the 3 E.Modes available. HDMI2/PC will work for all other resolutions tested (including 1080P). We can only assume this is done to prevent your average consumer from naming their source to PC and inadvertently disabling certain features and possibly degrading picture quality for standard DVD players and home theater products. You can easily check if PC mode is active by pressing the E.Mode button. If you get the response box stating "not available" this means that the PC mode feature is active. If you are able to change the E.Mode, PC mode is not active and the A650 is operating under normal processing.
In HDMI2/PC mode you still have Standard, Movie and Dynamic modes available but you lose the ability to control the following settings:
Sharpness, Color, Tint (G/R), Black Adjust, Color Space, Flesh Tone, Edge Enhancement, xvYCC, Digital NR, DNIe, HDMI Black Level, Film Mode, Blue Only Mode and Auto Motion Plus. Many of these settings are disabled because they are irrelevant for PC inputs.
Game Mode - Game mode is similar to the previous two options but does not require a specific connection type. Game mode is enabled by pressing the E.Mode button until you see the Game mode is active. Again, this eliminates signal processing (input lag) and limits the control over many picture settings.
Game mode typically reduces input lag to 15-25ms.
In game mode you lose the ability to control the following settings:
Backlight, Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, Color, Tint (G/R), All Detailed Settings, Color Tone, DNIe, Blue Only Mode and Auto Motion Plus.
One method for controlling the Backlight while in Game mode is to adjust the Energy Saving setting under the Setup menu.
=======================================================
Summary of Test Results
Here is a quick summary of the testing that was done. Thank you Cynn for helping compile and organize it.
First a couple of notes:
-PC testing is the best form of lag tests. Console specific tests can be flawed. This also provides better consistency by using the same source for all resolutions and connection types.
-For reference, here are the specs for the PC. Q6600 (@3.2 OC), 4GB G.Skill RAM (@1066), ATI 4850 (@defaults).
-These tests are done comparing the LN46A650 (FW 2004.0) to a Dell SP2208WFP 2ms Response time monitor. During 1080P testing, the monitor was operating in it's native resolution.
-16.6ms of lag = 1 frame or refresh cycle at 60hz. We'll round down to 16ms for these test results so they will be slightly better than posted but not enough different to notice.
PERSPECTIVE: So that people better understand the speeds we are talking about when discussing milliseconds, here are some common speeds to consider.
-The average speed of a human eye blink is 300-400ms
-It takes 50ms for an image you see to be relayed from the eye to the brain.
_________________________________________________
VGA mode / 1080p.
Average lag: 0-8ms
0.0-0.5 frame delay.
Average FD: 0.3 Frame (~a third of a frame)
59.7 cycles per second (of 60)
Zero/Undetectable lag to humans.
(approved for pro level gaming)
VGA mode / any PC resolution accepted by the 650. 480P and 720P will not work in VGA.
Average lag: 0-8ms
0.0-0.5 frame delay.
Average FD: 0.3 Frame (~a third of a frame)
59.7 cycles per second (of 60)
Zero/Undetectable lag to humans.
(approved for pro level gaming)
HDMI2 PC mode / 1080p.
Average lag: 6-15ms
0.3-1 frame delay.
Average FD: 0.6 Frame (~half a frame)
59.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Zero/Undetectable lag to humans.
(approved for pro level gaming)
HDMI GAME mode / 1080p.
Average lag: 15-25ms
1-2 Frame delay.
Average FD: 1.5 Frame
58.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag only for remarkably sensitive people.
(approved for pro level gaming)
HDMI Movie Mode / 1080p / No image enhancers activated.
Average lag: 50-60ms
3-4 frame delay
Average FD: 3.5 Frame
56.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag for most serious game players especially in the fighting/first person game types.
(NOT approved for pro level gaming)
HDMI Standard Mode / 1080p / No image enhancers activated.
Average Lag: 50-60ms
3-4 frame delay
Average FD: 3.5 Frame
56.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag for most serious game players especially in the fighting/first person game types.
(NOT approved for pro level gaming)
Component Standard Mode / 1080p / No image enhancers activated.
Average Lag: 80-100ms
5-6 frame delay
Average FD: 5.5 Frame
54.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag for most game players especially in the fighting/first person game types.
(NOT approved for pro level gaming)
Component GAME mode / 480p.
Average lag: 15-25ms
1-2 Frame delay.
Average FD: 1.5 Frame
58.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag only for remarkably sensitive people.
(approved for pro level gaming)
Please feel free to add any additional or missing information you think might be helpful.
Please keep in mind that this is meant to be a mostly factual and informational discussion and keep the discussion limited to this scope.
I think this will help reduce some of the repetitive questions/discussion with regards to input lag and gaming while still allowing us to keep the information and questions within Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread.
I want to make it clear that my hope and intention is NOT to create a separate and ongoing thread/discussion from the owners thread but rather collaborate in providing a single point (within the Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread) to answer a great majority of the questions with regards to the A650 and input lag / gaming.
Perhaps this will strike a happy medium for all looking for information regarding the LNXXA650.
Here is what I have so far.
=======================================================
Gaming
The A650 can be great for gaming but you should understand a few of it's features in order to configure the A650 for the best performance or picture quality based on your preferences.
If you are playing games that are not affected by input lag or if you have no concern for it, you will likely want to use either standard or movie mode as this will give you the greatest control over the picture quality. If this is the case, you can feel comfortable using any input (or input type) to help you obtain the picture quality that best meets you viewing preference.
If you are playing games that are affected by input lag or if you do have concern for it, you will want to read the section below regarding input lag and use one of the methods described to reduce/eliminate it. Those options will allow you to bring the A650 into the same realm of performance offered by your typical computer monitor. Please note that using any of those methods eliminates some of the settings available to you and may require a sacrifice in picture quality. This is the result of reducing signal processing in order to achieve faster response times.
Below are a few specific notes for the major consoles.
Xbox 360 - The Xbox 360 is capable of outputting 480P, 720P or 1080P. The Xbox 360 (unlike the PS3) will upscale the source (game/dvd) to the resolution set in the display settings section on the Xbox system console. As described below, you may want to set your Xbox to output 1080P, if you would like to take advantage of the HDMI2/PC feature. If you are using the HDMI2/PC feature and you have the Xbox set to output 480P or 720P, the A650 will disable the PC mode feature and return to normal operation (and therefore increase the signal processing time). If you are using your Xbox 360 and HDMI2/PC, you may want to set Reference Levels (under Display on your Xbox console to "Expanded".
The other options (Game mode or VGA) to reduce input lag are discussed below. A VGA connection is available for the Xbox but requires you to purchase an additional adapter.
This adapter can be found here .
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/
It typically costs $30-$40.
Please note that it appears the Xbox 360 must be in 1080P for the 650 to accept the signal. If the Xbox 360 is set to 480P or 720P the 650 will return a message stating "mode not supported".
Playstation 3 - The PS3 operates different from the Xbox 360. The PS3 will output the source format. This means that, if you are playing a 480P or 720P title (game/dvd), and trying to utilize the HDMI2/PC feature it will not work and will not reduce the signal processing (input lag).
Wii - I don't have one. Anyone have any input?
Input Lag
There are a few important things to understand about the A650 with regards to input lag.
Normal, Standard and Dynamic (to a lesser degree) modes offer significant control over the picture settings and therefore increase signal processing. Therefore these settings increase the time the A650 takes to process a signal and display it. This delay (or signal processing time) are what "input lag" refers to. Under normal modes (Normal, Standard and Dynamic) this delay can range from 40ms to 120+ms depending on your settings. This is typically only relevant (noticeable) in games with a significant dependence on accurate timing of controller actions. Examples of these types of games are first person shooters (Call of Duty, Halo, etc), music games (Rockband, Guitar Hero, etc.) and some sports or fighting games (MLB, Madden, Street Fighter, etc.).
This signal processing time (Input Lag) can be reduced through various features of the A650 or by using specific connection setups. Each of those options are discussed below.
VGA Connection - This option eliminates nearly all signal processing because it assumes you are using a personal computer and that processing is taking place by the computer hardware (graphics card). Since it eliminates nearly all signal processing, it also disables many picture settings (due to eliminating that portion of the processing) and limits the control the A650 has over the overall picture quality. Based on testing, this offers the best results in eliminating input lag.
VGA mode typically reduces input lag to 0-8ms.
Please note, 480P (720x480 or 702x480) and 720P (1280x720) do not work with VGA and return the message "mode not supported".
Also, many 16:9 and 16:10 resolutions would not display properly on the 650 and returned a "mode not supported" message.
The following resolutions did work.
640x480
800x600
1024x768
1280x1024
1360x768 (wasn't expecting that to work; very close to a 16:9 resolution)
1776x1000 (detected as 1920x1080)
HDMI2/PC - This is accomplished by connecting your gaming console to the HDMI2 input and then going into the menu and under the the Input section selecting Edit Name. Once in the Edit Name menu, you select HDMI2 and change the name to PC. This enables a special mode only available to the HDMI2 input that is similar (but not identical) to the VGA connection described above. It eliminates some signal processing (and therefore control of some picture settings) just like the VGA connection.
HDMI2/PC mode typically reduces input lag ranging from 6-60ms. You must pay special attention to your configuration when trying to optimize HDMI2/PC.
There is one important feature to note for the HDMI2/PC mode. When using this "feature" it will not work for any source the A650 senses as providing a 480P or 720P signal. This applies to the Wii, the PS3 (for non 1080P titles and Blu-Ray 24Hz), the Xbox 360 (if not set to display 1080P) or any computer providing a 480P or 720P resolution. Under these circumstances, the A650 will disable the PC mode feature and return to normal processing making all settings for Standard, Movie, Dynamic and the 3 E.Modes available. HDMI2/PC will work for all other resolutions tested (including 1080P). We can only assume this is done to prevent your average consumer from naming their source to PC and inadvertently disabling certain features and possibly degrading picture quality for standard DVD players and home theater products. You can easily check if PC mode is active by pressing the E.Mode button. If you get the response box stating "not available" this means that the PC mode feature is active. If you are able to change the E.Mode, PC mode is not active and the A650 is operating under normal processing.
In HDMI2/PC mode you still have Standard, Movie and Dynamic modes available but you lose the ability to control the following settings:
Sharpness, Color, Tint (G/R), Black Adjust, Color Space, Flesh Tone, Edge Enhancement, xvYCC, Digital NR, DNIe, HDMI Black Level, Film Mode, Blue Only Mode and Auto Motion Plus. Many of these settings are disabled because they are irrelevant for PC inputs.
Game Mode - Game mode is similar to the previous two options but does not require a specific connection type. Game mode is enabled by pressing the E.Mode button until you see the Game mode is active. Again, this eliminates signal processing (input lag) and limits the control over many picture settings.
Game mode typically reduces input lag to 15-25ms.
In game mode you lose the ability to control the following settings:
Backlight, Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, Color, Tint (G/R), All Detailed Settings, Color Tone, DNIe, Blue Only Mode and Auto Motion Plus.
One method for controlling the Backlight while in Game mode is to adjust the Energy Saving setting under the Setup menu.
=======================================================
Summary of Test Results
Here is a quick summary of the testing that was done. Thank you Cynn for helping compile and organize it.
First a couple of notes:
-PC testing is the best form of lag tests. Console specific tests can be flawed. This also provides better consistency by using the same source for all resolutions and connection types.
-For reference, here are the specs for the PC. Q6600 (@3.2 OC), 4GB G.Skill RAM (@1066), ATI 4850 (@defaults).
-These tests are done comparing the LN46A650 (FW 2004.0) to a Dell SP2208WFP 2ms Response time monitor. During 1080P testing, the monitor was operating in it's native resolution.
-16.6ms of lag = 1 frame or refresh cycle at 60hz. We'll round down to 16ms for these test results so they will be slightly better than posted but not enough different to notice.
PERSPECTIVE: So that people better understand the speeds we are talking about when discussing milliseconds, here are some common speeds to consider.
-The average speed of a human eye blink is 300-400ms
-It takes 50ms for an image you see to be relayed from the eye to the brain.
_________________________________________________
VGA mode / 1080p.
Average lag: 0-8ms
0.0-0.5 frame delay.
Average FD: 0.3 Frame (~a third of a frame)
59.7 cycles per second (of 60)
Zero/Undetectable lag to humans.
(approved for pro level gaming)
VGA mode / any PC resolution accepted by the 650. 480P and 720P will not work in VGA.
Average lag: 0-8ms
0.0-0.5 frame delay.
Average FD: 0.3 Frame (~a third of a frame)
59.7 cycles per second (of 60)
Zero/Undetectable lag to humans.
(approved for pro level gaming)
HDMI2 PC mode / 1080p.
Average lag: 6-15ms
0.3-1 frame delay.
Average FD: 0.6 Frame (~half a frame)
59.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Zero/Undetectable lag to humans.
(approved for pro level gaming)
HDMI GAME mode / 1080p.
Average lag: 15-25ms
1-2 Frame delay.
Average FD: 1.5 Frame
58.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag only for remarkably sensitive people.
(approved for pro level gaming)
HDMI Movie Mode / 1080p / No image enhancers activated.
Average lag: 50-60ms
3-4 frame delay
Average FD: 3.5 Frame
56.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag for most serious game players especially in the fighting/first person game types.
(NOT approved for pro level gaming)
HDMI Standard Mode / 1080p / No image enhancers activated.
Average Lag: 50-60ms
3-4 frame delay
Average FD: 3.5 Frame
56.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag for most serious game players especially in the fighting/first person game types.
(NOT approved for pro level gaming)
Component Standard Mode / 1080p / No image enhancers activated.
Average Lag: 80-100ms
5-6 frame delay
Average FD: 5.5 Frame
54.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag for most game players especially in the fighting/first person game types.
(NOT approved for pro level gaming)
Component GAME mode / 480p.
Average lag: 15-25ms
1-2 Frame delay.
Average FD: 1.5 Frame
58.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag only for remarkably sensitive people.
(approved for pro level gaming)