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#1 ·
After reading of the improved Panasonic color processing, I wanted to months ago purchase the BD-35 Blu-ray/DVD player. But because they were impossible to find I purchased the BD-60 the first day they were availible.

As I've owned a Sony PS3 for several years it was only natural that I compare it to the BD-60.


Pixel Processing Gets Better

--------------------------

Why not state the findings first?

The Panasonic DMP-BD60 Blu-ray/dvd player's image quality is superior to the Sony PS3. It mates especially well with my Samsung 950's larger color gamut by (re)generating a tangy, lustrous wider spectrum colors with added clarity and detail. Standard Dvd playback at 24p is enhanced too. Simply set the player to output 24p and picture to "fine".


It is well known that the color portion of an image is sampled much less than the luminance. Original studies dating back in the 1950's gave justification for lowering this sample rate. Can we see the ill effects of using this lower color sampling rate, especially with the new wider LED color gamut displays? Easily. So what can be done to restore the original pixel-level integrity?


A solution is provided in Panasonic HD/DVD players:

The Panasonic Hollywood Laboratories PHL Reference Chroma Processor studies and improves restoration, color correction, compression and digital conversion, then up-samples (4:2:0 to 4:2:2) the color information in decoded video signals. The unique PHL Reference Chroma Processor Plus expresses the fine details and nuances of movie scenes by reproducing clearer color boundaries, providing all the qualities that a Blu-ray (and DVD) disc has to offer.


P⁴HD (Pixel Precision Progressive Processing for HD) Technology

To get the best high definition images from a Blu-ray (and DVD) disc, you need a player that renders high-quality progressive images, expresses motion smoothly, and draws sharp diagonal lines. The Panasonic-unique P4HD technology processes more than 15 billion pixels per second, generating each pixel correctly according to information obtained from up to 60 surrounding pixels, and applies the optimum processing to every pixel in the video data on the disc. The result is images with exceptional resolution. (Note: for optimal PQ set players output to 24p).


Compare all this technology which does make a noticeable improvement in picture quality to reviewers who still rate a player based upon its largely obsolete de-interlacing capability.


In just a day of ownership I find no downsides to the BD-60. Any bugs were fixed in the BD-35. It is a pleasure to use!

It uses less power, is quieter but is not a full fledged media server. (PS3 owners should download the "PS3 Media Server" application. Its awesome!).

It has an Ethernet port finally allowing for convenient updates.


Lastly I don't see how the Oppo 83 can compete with the unique image processing provided by these Panasonic. Pricewise the tables are turned with the Oppo having a 40% higher MSRP. We won't even mention technical and human interface bugs.

Without a doubt the BD-60 is the player to beat. I do not recommend paying extra for the analog outputs of the BD-80, as virtually all receivers and A/V controllers are equipped with HDMI inputs.


Update 8-7-2009

Consumer Reports Rates the Panasonic 80 even with the Oppo 83

--------------------------------------------------------------

Oppo BDP-83 Score: 83 Price: $500

"It's a "universal" player that can play all types of discs, including high-resolution (mostly obsolete) SACDs and DVD-Audio titles."


Panasonic DMP-BD80 Score: 83 Price $350

CR's Take

"This Panasonic Blu-ray player offers excellent overall performance. It includes Panasonic's VieraCast online service, for access to videos from YouTube, digital photos from Picasa, and soon, Amazon Video on Demand. It has internal decoding of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD lossless audio, and 7.1-channel analog outputs. It includes an SD card slot and can play back AVCHD video files.


Highs

Excellent HD picture quality with Blu-ray discs, and excellent picture quality from standard DVDs. It's a BD-Live-ready model with an Ethernet port, and can access extra Web-based content from movie studio servers, or download firmware updates. A USB port provides access to photos, videos, and music stored on a USB flash drive.


Lows

Requires an optional 1GB SD card for BD-Live feature. It was unable to load a badly damaged Blu-ray disc that other players could handle."

---

Note: Members with HDMI receivers should instead consider the Panasonic DMP-BD60 which omits the legacy analog outputs. The Panasonic DMP-BD60 and its clones have a current street price of $200. This would have made the product an obvious "best buy" had CR tested it rather than the 80.

Panasonic DMP-BD60 MyScore: 83 Price $200*


*An AVS Best Buy
 
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#27 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut1015 /forum/post/16104366


First, this a quick response and was a quick comparison. I threw in Bolt yesterday and found the BD60 to be quite impressive. My surrounds were non stop and so were my subs. PQ was extremely sharp and smooth. Load times were seemingly slow, although acceptable, but I am a PS3 owner so I am spoiled. Then I watched the same scenes on my PS3 and decided the bd60 was abetter player, but there was no need to upgrade...Yet. All I wanted to know if I could justify the price tag, and sadly I cannot. As much as I wanted to. Do not get me wrong, the bd60 is a better blu ray player. I have been debating a standalone for some time now, and I will be still waiting. If I did not have a PS3, there was no question this is a remarkable player. Or, if you have some high end equipment and can see and hear subtle differences power to you. If you are like me and have a PS3, and are satisifed with it, just keep using it. If you want an outstanding blu ray experience with a standalone, this bd60 will do just fine. I want to make it clear to everyone I am not a fanboy of any type, I am just trying to help those who bought a PS3 for blu ray long ago and wondering if that is still a valid justification. I hope this helps!

**I did not compare SD upscaling, not something I need to consider

My setup is a Samsung 52a550 and Yamaha 663 receiver. Bose Acoustimass 15, 250 watt Infinity Sub.

Actually that is very helpful. I have been debating on spending 300 on this player or 400 on a PS3 to use for blu-ray movies. I'm not really much of a gamer, so methinks I'd be better off saving the extra $100 and going with the BD-60.
 
#28 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94 /forum/post/16105935


Actually that is very helpful. I have been debating on spending 300 on this player or 400 on a PS3 to use for blu-ray movies. I'm not really much of a gamer, so methinks I'd be better off saving the extra $100 and going with the BD-60.

Another note, most of you know the PS3 is a media server as well. It works very well, in fact. If you do not care about that, the bd60 is the way to go. Watch prices, one user stated it was purchased for around 50-60 less tjan msrp.
 
#29 ·
Yeah I'd like to know how that happened, they mentioned it was at BB, but my local BB has it for MSRP currently.
 
#31 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut1015 /forum/post/16104366


First, this a quick response and was a quick comparison. I threw in Bolt yesterday and found the BD60 to be quite impressive. My surrounds were non stop and so were my subs. PQ was extremely sharp and smooth. Load times were seemingly slow, although acceptable, but I am a PS3 owner so I am spoiled. Then I watched the same scenes on my PS3 and decided the bd60 was abetter player, but there was no need to upgrade...Yet. All I wanted to know if I could justify the price tag, and sadly I cannot. As much as I wanted to. Do not get me wrong, the bd60 is a better blu ray player. I have been debating a standalone for some time now, and I will be still waiting. If I did not have a PS3, there was no question this is a remarkable player. Or, if you have some high end equipment and can see and hear subtle differences power to you. If you are like me and have a PS3, and are satisifed with it, just keep using it. If you want an outstanding blu ray experience with a standalone, this bd60 will do just fine. I want to make it clear to everyone I am not a fanboy of any type, I am just trying to help those who bought a PS3 for blu ray long ago and wondering if that is still a valid justification. I hope this helps!

**I did not compare SD upscaling, not something I need to consider

My setup is a Samsung 52a550 and Yamaha 663 receiver. Bose Acoustimass 15, 250 watt Infinity Sub.

I also have a PS3 and my recent purchase of a Kuro 5020FD got me thinking if this player would have better PQ. Now I'm starting to think its not worth paying $300 to have a quieter player.
 
#32 ·
#33 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut1015 /forum/post/16106194


Another note, most of you know the PS3 is a media server as well. It works very well, in fact. If you do not care about that, the bd60 is the way to go. Watch prices, one user stated it was purchased for around 50-60 less tjan msrp.


I've been considering the PS3vsBD60 for awhile.. I like the idea of using the PS3 as a media server and internet browser but it's more expensive and there are some games I'd like to have. I already have a 360 so can't really afford to be buying even more games.


Also, I think the BD60 uses A LOT less power.. but you say load times are slower? Is the BD60 at least more quiet than the PS3? I've been using my 360 to play DVDs for the last month and it's driving me nuts!
 
#35 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTalon /forum/post/16106971


I've been considering the PS3vsBD60 for awhile.. I like the idea of using the PS3 as a media server and internet browser but it's more expensive and there are some games I'd like to have. I already have a 360 so can't really afford to be buying even more games.


Also, I think the BD60 uses A LOT less power.. but you say load times are slower? Is the BD60 at least more quiet than the PS3? I've been using my 360 to play DVDs for the last month and it's driving me nuts!

Yes, the bd60 is quiet, much quieter than the PS3 or 360. As far as power is concerned, I am not sure on the wattage the bd60 draws, more so if left in quickstart mode. Somewhere Panasonic stated that the bd60 is more efficient than the 35, but I do not know the numbers. I am sure any of these newer players are less power hungry than the PS3. As far as the speed, the load up time was just tolerable. I accidentally pushed the menu button during playback of Bolt and it seemed to take forever to return. Remember, the PS3 is more like a computer, I do not think any BRD player will be as fast as them. I retested some scenes and again found the bd60 to be superior in both PQ and sound, but not another $300 better. We all see and hear different when we test these things, I leave it up to you to decide to try it all for yourself. As I stated, if you have higher end equipment you may be able to justify this if you already own a PS3. There are pros and cons to each, I guess we all have to decide which to live with and without!
 
#36 ·
So far I like the BD60. The picture is a bit more punchier and sharper then my LG BH200. For some reason the audio (I'm letting the player decode and send it lpcm) is louder then the LG BH200- it sounds much better and the seperation is better.


The only issue with the BD60 was the Imax intro on Dark Knight. On my LG200 and old Philips BDP9000 (Samsung p-bd1000 clone) the "moire" pattern on the buildings were not there. The Panasonic exhibits the "moire" patterns on the buildings.
 
#38 ·
Thanks or the reviews on this BR Player. I'm really interested in it, since I'm having issues with my HTPC and BR playback.



I'm sure it's been mentioned, but I can't find it.....


Does the BD60 output 5.1 over the optical out?

Does the BD60 output 720P/1080i over Component?


The reason I ask, my Sony receiver does not have HDMI input/output, and my Dell 42" plasma only has 1 HDMI input (I'm sure it's not HDMI1.3 capable as it's 4 years old). At some point later this year or early next I'm going to get a new TV and receiver, but don't want to have to go back to SD DVD's in the meantime.


Thanks guys (and gals)....
 
#39 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgroves /forum/post/16112473


Thanks or the reviews on this BR Player. I'm really interested in it, since I'm having issues with my HTPC and BR playback.



I'm sure it's been mentioned, but I can't find it.....


Does the BD60 output 5.1 over the optical out?

Does the BD60 output 720P/1080i over Component?


The reason I ask, my Sony receiver does not have HDMI input/output, and my Dell 42" plasma only has 1 HDMI input (I'm sure it's not HDMI1.3 capable as it's 4 years old). At some point later this year or early next I'm going to get a new TV and receiver, but don't want to have to go back to SD DVD's in the meantime.


Thanks guys (and gals)....

All BD players will output 5.1 DD or DTS via optical. if they don't, there is something wrong with the player's design. DTS-HD MA and True HD will not go out over optical - you will get a regular DTS or DD downmix, I expect.


Similarly, 720p/1080i over component for BD is standard operation. Note that it will not output 720p/1080i for SD DVDs (unless non-copy-protected disks) - that's an industry standard rule.


AFAIK,


shinksma
 
#40 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma /forum/post/16112904


All BD players will output 5.1 DD or DTS via optical. if they don't, there is something wrong with the player's design. DTS-HD MA and True HD will not go out over optical - you will get a regular DTS or DD downmix, I expect.


Similarly, 720p/1080i over component for BD is standard operation. Note that it will not output 720p/1080i for SD DVDs (unless non-copy-protected disks) - that's an industry standard rule.


AFAIK,


shinksma

Just keep in mind that the Dolby Digital and DTS core on blu-ray is typically a higher bitrate then standard dvd. You should still get great sound if you don't upgrade your receiver. However, I'm sure your receiver is new enough that is has at least 5.1 analog ins. You could get a Panasonic BD80 that will decode the new audio and send it over analogs to your receiver.
 
#41 ·
Anyone else see that Amazon says this player is being released April 13th?? I may have to go back to a B&M.... I was hoping the deal (hope I'm not in trouble) at Amazon that ends up with me getting free movies would be back on. I don't have any BD movies and that'd only add to my cost of jumping in the game. I guess I'll have to wait longer (4months and counting) till I get this player..
 
#42 ·
I just picked this up at BB last night. They didn't have it on display, so I had one of their salespeople check the back room. Sure enough they had a stack of them nobody knew about.



I currently have a PS3 that I've been using for about a year now, and after reading how the PQ should outshine the PS3, I thought I'd give it a go. Well I hooked it up last night, and to make a long story short, its really hard to distinguish a difference, since they're both excellent. What I do like about the unit is the advanced picture controls. For instance my Kuro display's brightness setting is really corse, as I learned when trying to adjust it with a pluge pattern from the DVE disk. I was able to fine tune it using the picture controls on the BD60 since they're much more granular.


After reading about how LPCM and bitstreaming audio should theoretically be the same, I was surprised to hear more detail when bitstreaming HD codecs to my Onkyo 805. This could entirely be due to the fact its not anywhere as loud as the PS3.


I'm not sure I'm going to keep it yet however. I'll use it for a few more weeks and make a decision.
 
#43 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma /forum/post/16112904


All BD players will output 5.1 DD or DTS via optical. if they don't, there is something wrong with the player's design. DTS-HD MA and True HD will not go out over optical - you will get a regular DTS or DD downmix, I expect.


Similarly, 720p/1080i over component for BD is standard operation. Note that it will not output 720p/1080i for SD DVDs (unless non-copy-protected disks) - that's an industry standard rule.


AFAIK,


shinksma

Thanks for the confirmation on the details. It looks like this might be the player I go with if I can't fix the problems on my HTPC. *sigh*.... There goes more money on my "HOBBY", the wife is NOT going to happy when I tell her that I need a BR player.... LOL.




Now if only BestBuy would come out with a 10% or higher discount coupon that works with BluRay players....
 
#45 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank W /forum/post/16114128


I may have missed it but I didn't see any comments about stopping and re-starting the BD60. Will it re-start at the beginning or where you left off if you stop in the middle of a move?


Frank

I have always read that is a function of the blu-ray disc not the player. The blu-ray disc has to be authored to allow that.
 
#46 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree /forum/post/16113420


I just picked this up at BB last night. They didn't have it on display, so I had one of their salespeople check the back room. Sure enough they had a stack of them nobody knew about.



I currently have a PS3 that I've been using for about a year now, and after reading how the PQ should outshine the PS3, I thought I'd give it a go. Well I hooked it up last night, and to make a long story short, its really hard to distinguish a difference, since they're both excellent. What I do like about the unit is the advanced picture controls. For instance my Kuro display's brightness setting is really corse, as I learned when trying to adjust it with a pluge pattern from the DVE disk. I was able to fine tune it using the picture controls on the BD60 since they're much more granular.


After reading about how LPCM and bitstreaming audio should theoretically be the same, I was surprised to hear more detail when bitstreaming HD codecs to my Onkyo 805. This could entirely be due to the fact its not anywhere as loud as the PS3.


I'm not sure I'm going to keep it yet however. I'll use it for a few more weeks and make a decision.

It’s a bit surprising the Kuro didn't let you see the extra clarity and detail over the PS3. It is there somewhere...

But you did notice the improved sound quality. The Toshiba XD-E500 was my favorite player for sound quality. Now the crown goes to Panasonic. It’s a welcome contest to see which player can generate the widest, deepest, seamless, most immersive atmosphere. All with the least grain, most relaxing explosive dynamics and highest amount of believability. The PS3 has been accused of bring bright. It can be as it’s a computer with six processors generating noise.

It’s humorous as most students just know that all HDMI sound quality should be the same, and sound the same. Bits are bits I’ve written about the reasons this is not necessarily true (emissions and coupling), but there is always one stick-in-the-mud who will disagree forever.


In any event it’s great to read of several owners simply noting the improved sound quality. I had owned the first DVD player to incorporate sending audio and video over HDMI, the Panasonic 97. It sounded terrible. For the first time, with the BD60 I can sit down and watch movies for hours on end as both the picture and sound quality are so high. Remarkable for a $300 player.

I did try the remaster which increases and generates more bass at each successive setting. My $3K JL Audio woofer easily bottoms out as bass levels are too hot. Otherwise switching the upsampling to 96KHz was seamless, but it did not obviously improve the sound quality. Maybe I should read the owner’s manual to find out exactly what the remaster does!


One hint for the best sound quality: always delay the audio in the HDMI receiver, as this reclocks the audio data to reduce timing jitter and distortion
 
#47 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun /forum/post/16114356


It's a bit surprising the Kuro didn't let you see the extra clarity and detail over the PS3. It is there somewhere...

But you did notice the improved sound quality. The Toshiba XD-E500 was my favorite player for sound quality. Now the crown goes to Panasonic. It's a welcome contest to see which player can generate the widest, deepest, seamless, most immersive atmosphere. All with the least grain, most relaxing explosive dynamics and highest amount of believability. The PS3 has been accused of bring bright. It can be as it's a computer with six processors generating noise.

It's humorous as most students just know that all HDMI sound quality should be the same, and sound the same. Bits are bits I've written about the reasons this is not necessarily true (emissions and coupling), but there is always one stick-in-the-mud who will disagree forever.


In any event it's great to read of several owners simply noting the improved sound quality. I had owned the first DVD player to incorporate sending audio and video over HDMI, the Panasonic 97. It sounded terrible. For the first time, with the BD60 I can sit down and watch movies for hours on end as both the picture and sound quality are so high. Remarkable for a $300 player.

I did try the remaster which increases and generates more bass at each successive setting. My $3K JL Audio woofer easily bottoms out as bass levels are too hot. Otherwise switching the upsampling to 96KHz was seamless, but it did not obviously improve the sound quality. Maybe I should read the owner's manual to find out exactly what the remaster does!


One hint for the best sound quality: always delay the audio in the HDMI receiver, as this reclocks the audio data to reduce timing jitter and distortion

I plan on doing some critical watching tonight to compare. I only wish I had 2 copies of the same movie, so I can switch back and forth between HDMI inputs. My visual memory is starting to show its age.
 
#49 ·
I was so surprised to call best buy and they said they had it in,it was a little out of my way but i got it 75 mile round trip,my question is did anyone run into problems playing any bd discs yet?i took back a sony 550 for this,had a panny 35 but it got stolen and i really loved that player,owned a sammy1600 for 1 day but it wouldnt play most of my disc,is this panny playing disc ok without a problem?...
 
#50 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNT3 /forum/post/16114796


Not that i would expect it to be better,but is there anyone who can compare the sd upconversion to that of th XA2?

I own two of them, one is the home theater and the other is in the garage system. (Anyone with three or more players has, by definition a garage system). We all owe a debt of gratitude Toshiba for introducing 24p SD-DVD playback in these players. That being said the Panasonic image processing brings out an improved clarity and definition that the XA2 cannot touch. There is so much more to restore/recreate the image than legacy deinterlacing. Technology marches forward with the DB-60 now being half the price of the Xa2. One sweet deal.



Here is the improvement I see. DVD is improved substantially, but Blu-ray has finally widened its lead. Kung-Fu Panda had a lot of remarkable memorable scenes. The higher the fidelity, the more you remember.
 
#51 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun /forum/post/16115394


I own two of them, one is the home theater and the other is in the garage system. (Anyone with three or more players has, by definition a garage system). We all owe a debt of gratitude Toshiba for introducing 24p SD-DVD playback in these players. That being said the Panasonic image processing brings out an improved clarity and definition that the XA2 cannot touch. There is so much more to restore/recreate the image than legacy deinterlacing. Technology marches forward with the DB-60 now being half the price of the Xa2. One sweet deal.



Here is the improvement I see. DVD is improved substantially, but Blu-ray has finally widened its lead. Kung-Fu Panda had a lot of remarkable memorable scenes. The higher the fidelity, the more you remember.

So,you are saying the sd dvd looks better on the 60?Sorry if i did not understand your response,but you mentioned blu-ray in the same breath so did not know if the images were a comparison of sd and bd
 
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