AVS Forum banner

San Francisco, CA - OTA

2M views 20K replies 1K participants last post by  jamesm113 
#1 ·
I'm thinking of upgrading to an HDTV and have some questions for those getting OTA HD in the Bay Area.


I live in Berkeley and it looks like while I get most of my networks from SF, I need to also point toward San Jose, 57 miles away, to get NBC. I've been looking at the Channel Master antennaes, but I can't tell if you have one station in the blue range and the rest in the green or yellow ranges, whether you can just point your directional antennae at the blue and pick everything else up off the rest of the antennae, or whether you'd need two directionals or one that can point in two directions.


Also, on antennaeweb, it has a column that's supposed to read "live now" for digital channels that are being broadcast, yet none of the bay area channels say "live now." Most are blank. I take it for granted that the digital broadcasts are available right? You can't get HDTV from an analog broadcast, can you, and I know that's available OTA. Also, I assume that all the digital channels are UHF, so I need to buy the antennae that can reach 60 miles on UHF to get NBC, don't I?


If I go the HD route, I'll be using Directv plus OTA, so I will need to get all the networks in HD to really make the investment worthwhile (as directv will give me either none, or only CBS HD). I'd appreciate if anyone in Berkeley, Oakland, Albany, etc. can sound off on their OTA experiences.


Thanks for the input.

UPDATE: I was asked to add the info below to my post. I now live in a hilly area in Oakland and can't get OTA reception any more. Too bad for me.


Viewers in the San Francisco Bay Area will find the following sites very useful for finding local digital stations:


Bay Area DTV - HDTV Channel List - http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html


FCC DTV Reception Maps - http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


Locate TV stations available at your address and compute expected signal strength and directions -
http://www.tvfool.com/
 
See less See more
#4,561 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xn0r /forum/post/16637957


@kev4321: Interesting. In the other thread, the DTVPal got pretty low ratings. Hrm.

Maybe it is because earlier models had problems? The non-Plus model became available in June of last year. I got a DTVPal Plus in February. So I don't have first hand experience with its earlier problems.


The Plus has a more sensitive tuner than the non-Plus. I've read some say it does better than the Zenith. I've not tried to compare the two side by side hooked up to the same antenna. But it does get a few more channels than the Zenith in our house.


My biggest complaint is that when you switch channels the channel information box blocks the top 20 to 30 percent of the picture for 5 seconds. So I have to constantly press the [Cancel] button right after switching channels to clear that away. (if it is a channel I care to see people's faces on). (sure faces aren't the only thing that might be blocked, but it is the most common). The Zenith just says the channel number (and call sign) in the top right corner.


Both will let you display that chan info at the push of a button too, of course.


(sorry for saying so much on something that probably is better talked about elsewhere)

update1(

That [Cancel] button is within easy reach. So it isn't a big deal to press.


The Zenith does have a nice [Signal] button that keeps the signal strength of the current channel dislayed. You can do that using the [Browse] button on the DTVPal. But what sets the Zenith apart is that it makes an audible beep that gets quicker as the signal gets stronger or slower as it gets weaker. This is great for the TV in the kitchen, because its antenna is in the closet that's adjacent to it. And you can't see the picture as you move the antenna.
)
 
#4,562 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 /forum/post/16638159


Hi,


Former FCC Chair Reed Hundt said on the "The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer", Friday:


98% of Viewers are on Cable, Sat or the Internet. So no problem!


Other things he said also bothered me. I will be looking at the transcript which will be posted online Tuesday.


SHF

I saw it on KQED analog at 3 pm today... I agree, he came across as if he had an

axe to grind... I thought about email'ing the newshour about their statement that screens will go blue for folks that are not DTV ready. They'll actually show "snow", which is what analog does when there's no signal...
 
#4,563 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEPFRINGEGUY /forum/post/16639448


I saw it on KQED analog at 3 pm today... I agree, he came across as if he had an

axe to grind... I thought about email'ing the newshour about their statement that screens will go blue for folks that are not DTV ready. They'll actually show "snow", which is what analog does when there's no signal...

The blue screen thing is something newer TVs have. My Panasonic DMR-EH75V (DVD/HDD/VHS) which I believe was made in 2006 has an option to turn off the blue screen feature. And once it is off I can once again see snow.


I wonder what year it was that the blue screen stuff first started showing up.


I think that PBS show blue it saying what they did. I'd imagine percentage-wise more people have TVs that will show snow. (of the people that need converter boxes, of course)
 
#4,564 ·
Just did a channel scan. KMTP was picked up. 32.1 32.2 32.3 32.4 32.5 were added.


The following is displayed over and over again:

---------------

Last Friday at 11:59 p.m.

KMTP Said

'Good bye' to

The Analog Age and...

---------------

'Hello'

Digital Television


But, Oops!

We're Working on

Technical Problems


This May Take A Day or So...

---------------

KMTP digital 33

33.1 General Programs

33.2 World Channel

33.3 Pan African

33.4 Weddings

33.5 New Tang Dynasty TV


415-777-3232

---------------


With the parts between --- each on a separate screen.
 
#4,565 ·
It sure didn't take KGO long to switch. The analog 7 and digital 24 transmitters were off at 12:00 midnight and at 12:00:30 KGO digital was up on channel 7.


I did a scan and got five analog stations... I expected four: 11, 22, 28 and 40 - KNTV and three low power stations. Who was the illegal station? KFSF channel 66 is still there, but very snowy. I'm only 3/4 of a mile from Sutro Tower and I bet they turned off the plates of the transmitter and have left the exciter on, and we're close enough to see the exciter.


How is everyone's reception of the stations that changed channels?


Larry

SF
 
#4,566 ·
It's 12:20AM. Is anyone getting 2.1 (RF44)?
 
#4,567 ·
I haven't done a rescan yet, but I watched the channel 5 news, and at least tonight the digital transition, lasting all of 3 minutes, was the opening story, including both the essential things people needed to know, plus bits of a retrospective on analog television's beginning (in the 1920's) and end (at least for high-power stations) tonight...at midnight the 5 analog broadcast simply went to snow (as did the TVGOS data it carried)...


Letterman also mentioned it in his opening spiel, and it was the subject of his top ten list!


Will rescan tomorrow...



[I'm especially curious what my 2 TVGOS units (below) will be doing...]
 
#4,568 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney /forum/post/16640540


It sure didn't take KGO long to switch. The analog 7 and digital 24 transmitters were off at 12:00 midnight and at 12:00:30 KGO digital was up on channel 7.


I did a scan and got five analog stations... I expected four: 11, 22, 28 and 40 - KNTV and three low power stations. Who was the illegal station? KFSF channel 66 is still there, but very snowy. I'm only 3/4 of a mile from Sutro Tower and I bet they turned off the plates of the transmitter and have left the exciter on, and we're close enough to see the exciter.


How is everyone's reception of the stations that changed channels?


Larry

SF

KGO7 is very strong in Santa Rosa. I was watching it on DirecTV on an analog TV and using the Sansonic FT-300A and an analog TV to view the digital signal. At 12:00:30 the digital signal came in at 100% strength and 100% quality. KRON4 is too weak to view and KTVU2 has no signal at present.
 
#4,570 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wm_tell1 /forum/post/16640577


KGO7 is very strong in Santa Rosa. I was watching it on DirecTV on an analog TV and using the Sansonic FT-300A and an analog TV to view the digital signal. At 12:00:30 the digital signal came in at 100% strength and 100% quality. KRON4 is too weak to view and KTVU2 has no signal at present.

Heh, thanks for confirming KTVU. Just for laughs I just called them and they said it could "take a couple of hours" before they come on.
 
#4,571 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney /forum/post/16640540


I did a scan and got five analog stations... I expected four: 11, 22, 28 and 40 - KNTV and three low power stations.

I went from 19 analog channels earlier in the day down to just KNTV 11 now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney /forum/post/16640540


How is everyone's reception of the stations that changed channels?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney /forum/post/16636918


In other news... you'll also have to rescan to get all of the other stations that will be changing channels:

2 - KTVU - from 56 to 44

6 - KVIE - from 53 to 9

7 - KGO - from 24 to 7

8 - KSBW - from 10 to 8

10 - KXTV - from 61 to 10

40 - KTXL - from 55 to 40

42 - KTNC - from 63 to 14

64 - KTFK - from 62 to 26

I don't get KTVU 2. I of course got it before.

One of my TVs gets KGO 7 the other doesn't.

The rest of those I never got before.


The Zenith DTT901 is handling 7.* weirdly. It has:


7.1 normal

7.1 no signal

7.2 normal

7.2 no signal

7.3 normal

7.3 no signal


(doing a rescan doesn't change this)


To clarify that: pressing the channel up or down button causes it to tune to each of those channels twice.


When you just press 7 and then quickly (before it times out and goes to 7.1) use the up and down arrow it shows all of them at once (doubled) in a little menu that appears immediately after pressing 7. That menu stays displayed if you keep using the up and down arrows.

update1(

I got KGO 7 on the other TV too now. The rescan has to be done while you have the antenna in a position so that you can receive the channel. Seems obvious. Before you do that the tuner still is locked onto 7.1-7.3's old location at digital 24 (UHF). Where it is now at digital 7 (VHF).


My 15-1892 Radioshack antenna makes it awkward to adjust the VHF portion of the antenna. UHF is convenient to adjust (just press some buttons and its motor rotates the thing). I have the whole thing sideways relative to the TV it is sitting on top of now. So its buttons and display aren't facing forward. Oh well.


If I had it to do over again I'd have gotten an antenna with less gee-whiz features and the flexibility to adjust both VHF and UHF however you want. Now the next thing I'll do is put an antenna on the roof.
)
 
#4,573 ·
I just rescanned. I'm in 95054 and have an Olevia 242FHD hooked to a Terk HDTVa. Here's what I got so far:


2-1 KTVU-DT

2-2 KTVU-SD

4-1 KRON-SD

4-2 KRON-HD

5-1 KPIX-DT

9-1 KQED-HD

9-2 KTEH-DT

9-3 WORLD (KQED)

11 KNTV Analog (Nightlight)

11-1 KNTV-HD

11-2 KNTV-WEATHER

11-3 NBC/KNTV-US (Sports)

14-1 KDTV-DT

20-1 KOFY-HD

20-4 Azteca

26-1 KTSF-D1

26-2 KTSF-D2 (Asian)

28 HSN Analog (still broadcasting)

32-1 KMTP-DT (broadcasting "technical problems" loop)

32-2 KMTP World Channel (same as above)

32-4 KMTP WTV (same as above)

32-5 KMTP NTD (same as above)

36-1 KICU-DT (720p)

32-6 KICU-SD

38-1 KCNS

38-2 KCNS-2 (Asian)

40 KMMC (Analog, MTVTr3s)

48-1 KSTS-SD (Spanish)

48-2 KSTS-HD (1080i, Spanish)

54-1 KTEH

54-2 KQED

54-3 KTEH LIFE

64-4 KTEH KIDS

54-5 V-Me (Spanish)

60-1 KCSM

60-2 KCSM MHz

60-3 KCMM JazzTV

65-1 KKPX ION

65-2 KKPX qubo

65-3 KKPX ION Life

65-4 KKPX Worship

66-1 KFSF-DT

66-2 KDTV-DT


We'll see how things progress over the next few days. Hopefully I'll get KTVU and KGO back. I'm not sure what's going on w/ the ones that were scanned, probably too weak, or antenna position. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get any of the VHF stations like KGO anymore, all I can try is to twiddle the antennas a bit.



Update: Manually added KPIX. Apparently TV takes the real channel when you add. I didn't get any sub channels, and as far as I can see, there's no way to tell it to add a sub chan. I'm not sure if KPIX has sub channels though, since 5-1 (29) is 1080i. So all I'm really missing now is KGO and KTVU. I expect to get KTVU back, but not sure about KGO since it's VHF.


Update2: I'm suddenly getting KOFY-HD, KFSF-DT, and KDTV-HD (on both 14-1 and 66-2). It was either from moving the antenna, or they were off the air earlier.


I'm wondering if the reason I'm not getting KGO is because of the 'weirdness' seen by kev4321 with the sub chans. My TV sits there and thinks about adding it for a while, then comes back and says "channel not found". Maybe it's not liking what it sees. I'm getting the other VHF chan, KNTV, which I guess is a bit closer to me (San Bruno Mountain), so I'd think I'd be able to pick up KGO, which isn't that much farther, and not much weaker according to tvfool. :shrug:


Update3: I got KTVU back. Still no joy for KGO. But now that's the only channel I have missing which I should be receiving. KFTL 28 is still broadcasting on analog, but I get no 28.1 digital.


Poor KMTP is till running the 'technical difficulties' loop video on all sub channels. Maybe one of the broadcast gurus in this thread should go give 'em a hand. :p


KMMC 40 is still broadcasting analog. I get it with a LOT of snow. I'm not getting the digital 40.1 version. No surprising since the ERP of the digital station is only 3.2kW, where the analog is 44kW.
 
#4,575 ·
I did a rescan this morning and I am very happy with the result. My CM4228 in

Rohnert Park is picking up channel 7, the new KGO digital channel extremely well

at about 75 on my Dish VIP722. The best news is that, for the first time in 8

years, I am receiving channel 2, KTVU, also at 75. So, I am now able to watch

all the major networks on my antenna and I am very pleased. Thank God we

finally got there. Analog is gone and digital is king now!
 
#4,576 ·
Heard and saw a couple of inaccurate news items on last night's news. NBC News Brian Williams said that if you don't get a converter box for your older analog television the TV will be "worthless". I guess he never watches DVD's or tapes on his television.


KPIX's Mike Sugarman said that digital television consists of the broadcast of "1's and 2's". And then he buries in the ground and covers with dirt what looked like a small Sony Trinitron, so sad to see him do that. Earlier KPIX had the birth of analog televsion starting with Philo Farnsworth "transmitting from his workshop in 1927" somewhere in North Beach, there's just a plaque there now. I'm not sure Farnsworth transmitted anything, if he did it certainly wasn't NTSC.
 
#4,577 ·
I am getting all the digital channels except for KGO. I have only an UHF antennae. I thought because I was getting channel 7 in analog ( not the best picture ), I will be able to get it when they go digital.



Update:

Still not getting KGO on my Sony W3000 TV and Dish Vip722.

But I am able to get KGO on my Channel Master CM-7000 converter box ( signal is in the 10-24% range)
 
Top