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San Francisco, CA - OTA

2M views 20K replies 1K participants last post by  jamesm113 
#1 ·
I'm thinking of upgrading to an HDTV and have some questions for those getting OTA HD in the Bay Area.


I live in Berkeley and it looks like while I get most of my networks from SF, I need to also point toward San Jose, 57 miles away, to get NBC. I've been looking at the Channel Master antennaes, but I can't tell if you have one station in the blue range and the rest in the green or yellow ranges, whether you can just point your directional antennae at the blue and pick everything else up off the rest of the antennae, or whether you'd need two directionals or one that can point in two directions.


Also, on antennaeweb, it has a column that's supposed to read "live now" for digital channels that are being broadcast, yet none of the bay area channels say "live now." Most are blank. I take it for granted that the digital broadcasts are available right? You can't get HDTV from an analog broadcast, can you, and I know that's available OTA. Also, I assume that all the digital channels are UHF, so I need to buy the antennae that can reach 60 miles on UHF to get NBC, don't I?


If I go the HD route, I'll be using Directv plus OTA, so I will need to get all the networks in HD to really make the investment worthwhile (as directv will give me either none, or only CBS HD). I'd appreciate if anyone in Berkeley, Oakland, Albany, etc. can sound off on their OTA experiences.


Thanks for the input.

UPDATE: I was asked to add the info below to my post. I now live in a hilly area in Oakland and can't get OTA reception any more. Too bad for me.


Viewers in the San Francisco Bay Area will find the following sites very useful for finding local digital stations:


Bay Area DTV - HDTV Channel List - http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html


FCC DTV Reception Maps - http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/


Locate TV stations available at your address and compute expected signal strength and directions -
http://www.tvfool.com/
 
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#4,581 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by malmgren /forum/post/16642661


I did a scan early this AM around 2, and both KTVU-2 and KRON-4 were offline. I checked this morning and KTVU-2 is back, but KRON-4 is still gone. That's a shame - the girl with the nice ta-tas in the morning weather is what I'll miss most until they come back on the air.

I did a re-scan this morning and have confirmed that KTVU2 is viewable in the north bay at 80% signal strength and 20% signal quality; KRON4 is still too weak to view.
 
#4,582 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by malmgren /forum/post/16642661


... I checked this morning and KTVU-2 is back, but KRON-4 is still gone. ...

Hi,


I could not get KRON yesterday and Larry said they were on 1/2 power for a few days.


Today, using my weakest tuner KRON is there! KTVU is fine here in the south bay.


I really wonder what antennas are being used.


Repeating the Question:



Question:


When there are NO workers on Sutro tower can some stations be on one set of antennas and others on the other set?


And are they actually doing this?.


Larry, any chance of getting pictures of how they switch antenna sets, or at least a description of the method.


SHF
 
#4,583 ·
i just looked thru the OTA channels on my HR10-250 expecting to find nothing on a few of the digital channels, but everything was still there.


is KGO transmitting simultaneously on physical 7 and physical 24? from the look of the talk here they have begun broadcasting digital on physical 7, but i would have expected them to shut down 24...
 
#4,584 ·
Did a rescan after 10:00 this morning with my weakest ATSC tuner (MyHD MDP-120) on the CM 4228 antenna and found all the DTV stations that were there last week (but some are on new frequencies, of course). Also found ATV 11, 20(!), 22, 28, and 40. A20 is in the list and reported as "KOFY-TV" evidently because it's still in KOFY's PSIP on D19.
There's nothing but snow on the channel itself.


D07 is coming in very well. KRON-DT on D38 is clearly weaker than it was on D57.
 
#4,588 ·
I just recanned (again) and got KRCB at 22.x as it should be.


Interesting that KAXT wants to use 22.x as well. You'd think there would be enough PSIPs to go around without duplication in a local market.
 
#4,590 ·
It's interesting to read all of your reports.


I've got two digital TVs, two computer receivers, and two converter boxes, so I've been doing a lot of scanning and searching since last night. Conditions over the past couple of days have been pretty poor for the more distance stations, based on overall reception of the South Bay and Walnut Grove stations now vs the average, so we're seeing things at their worst, I think.


I'm only 3/4 of a mile from Sutro Tower, so I can't judge those stations very well. They're all 100%, except KGO. For the first time I can see the difference between the CM4228 and Antennas Direct SR15 UHF antennas. KGO 7 was 100% on both antennas before when they were on 24. Now with the station on channel 7, their signal is 96% on the 4228 but only 71 on the SR15! I also have a Antenna Craft Y-10-7-13, a High VHF antenna, and, of course, KGO is 100% with that.


It's interesting to see the reports on KGO 7 from others using the 4228. It's not working as well as expected for channel 7, but it's better than other UHF antennas.


I see a major change on KTNC 42 from Mt. Diablo. When on channel 63 they came in at about 70-73. Now on channel 14 they're at 92... a big improvement for them.


I can see a signal from KVIE 6 - now on 9, KXTV 10 on 10 and KTFK 64 - now on 26 from Walnut Grove, all stations that changed channels, but all are in the 13 to 14 dB SNR range, not quite good enough to produce a picture. (I need 15 dB or better.) I'm rather disappointed with that. I expected a better signal from 9 and 10 with my 10 element VHF 7-13 antenna. I'll probably get them intermittently, like KOVR, KCRA and KQCA, when conditions are good, but not well enough to rely on. The only station from up there that's in here 100% of the time is KMAX 31. It's always 21 dB or better.


A new addition for me from Walnut Grove is KSPX 29 on channel 48. I couldn't get it before because KSTS analog was stronger, but with the analog gone, it's coming in like 3, 6, 10, 13, and 58.


I can no longer get KTXL 40. I got them fairly regularly when they were on 55, but now that they moved to channel 40 they're being covered by KMMC analog from Mt. San Bruno.


I haven't been able to get a signal from KFTY yet on channel 32 from Mt. St. Helena, nor KSBW 8 or KBCA 13, but as I mentioned conditions are pretty poor today. I'm not getting KSTS or KTEH from the South Bay very well today either, but KRCB 22 and KTLN 68 from up north are coming in well. I think today is a good test, because we're seeing stations under poor conditions. The signals can get much better when conditions are right.


Of course, for many of you, signals will be improving for the stations from Sutro Tower when they get the new antennas installed atop the tower. They're still saying they should be ready by October. That will be our next time to review reception.


Remember, if you want to check for stations, you'll find a complete list on my web site:

List by (PSIP) virtual channel: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html

List by transmitter channel: http://www.choisser.com/sfonair2.html


Happy hunting!


Larry

SF
 
#4,591 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 /forum/post/16642940


Repeating the Question:


When there are NO workers on Sutro tower can some stations be on one set of antennas and others on the other set?


And are they actually doing this?.


Larry, any chance of getting pictures of how they switch antenna sets, or at least a description of the method.


SHF

I have no idea how they have the main digital and alternate antennas wired in up at Sutro... you'll need to get the answer from someone who has been working up there recently.


BUT... I did see a report this morning on the SF HDTV Yahoo Group that there was an antenna glitch that knocked KCNS and KCSM off the air last night and right now KCNS 38, KBCW 44 and KCSM 60 are all transmitting on the new auxiliary antenna, and will be at least until Sunday. All of the other UHF stations are running on the (old) main DTV antenna. KGO is transmitting with their former analog antenna at the top. So, yes, they can have some stations on one antenna and the others on the other antenna.


This is a good time to check to see how the signals from the new auxiliary antenna come in for you. How well are you getting KCNS 38, KBCW 44 and KCSM 60 today? That's the signal you'll see from all the stations when the crew is working on the tower this Summer.


KGO 7 will, of course, have to use their auxiliary antenna for quite a while, when the crew takes down the Southwest tower leg that they're on. They get a new antenna back at the top, but there will be a time that they won't have a main antenna and will have to transmit from their auxiliary antenna full time.


As for pictures, I no longer have access to the site. My ID card was taken away when I retired. So the only pictures I can get are of the tower itself, and I will be posting pictures of the antenna work as it progresses over the Summer.


Larry

SF
 
#4,592 ·
First post, although I've been lurking for a while. Lots of interesting information, thanks to all!


I've been hoping that KVIE on channel 9, from Walnut Grove, would be usable here in Redwood City. This would give me PBS in HD ... Sutro is no go from my location, which is right behind a steep rise.


I put up a dipole on the roof, cut to 189 MHz, and can get KXTV on channel 10, a solid signal with no dropouts. But KVIE doesn't lock, although I do see the signal on my spectrum analyzer, about 10 dB weaker than KXTV.


Is KVIE is running on low power, or maybe a temporary antenna?


I suppose the answer is to get a 'proper' antenna, rather than the dipole, but I'm curious about the apparent difference in received signal power.


Peter
 
#4,593 ·
Just another update. I scanned again on two of my TVs, and the only channel I'm not getting is KGO-7. It was working fine before the switch, but now it's not even coming in any longer.


Just FYI for those interested, I have a ClearStream4 (got it on sale, not the list price - seems prices have gone up since 3 mos ago) and am located in Santa Clara (near Keily and Homestead). Here's a pic of the beast.
 
#4,594 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by malmgren /forum/post/16644510


the only channel I'm not getting is KGO-7. It was working fine before the switch, but now it's not even coming in any longer. ..am located in Santa Clara (near Keily and Homestead)

I think it's your antenna. TVFool shows you should get good reception of channel 7. As an experiment try hooking up some rabbit ears to the coax on the roof and then scan for 7 on your TV.
 
#4,597 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by malmgren /forum/post/16644510


Just another update. I scanned again on two of my TVs, and the only channel I'm not getting is KGO-7. It was working fine before the switch, but now it's not even coming in any longer.


Just FYI for those interested, I have a ClearStream4 (got it on sale, not the list price - seems prices have gone up since 3 mos ago) and am located in Santa Clara (near Keily and Homestead). Here's a pic of the beast.

The link you provided to information about the antenna says this: "Advanced design software allows these 20 x 28 antennas to be smaller and powerful across the core UHF DTV spectrum offering consistent high gain." KGO is now on VHF.


As "WhiteWhiskers" says, try tossing some rabbit ears on your roof and see what happens. At least if you get something, you'll know that you can improve the reception with a better VHF antenna.



Patty
 
#4,598 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Kenney /forum/post/16640540


It sure didn't take KGO long to switch. The analog 7 and digital 24 transmitters were off at 12:00 midnight and at 12:00:30 KGO digital was up on channel 7.


I did a scan and got five analog stations... I expected four: 11, 22, 28 and 40 - KNTV and three low power stations. Who was the illegal station? KFSF channel 66 is still there, but very snowy. I'm only 3/4 of a mile from Sutro Tower and I bet they turned off the plates of the transmitter and have left the exciter on, and we're close enough to see the exciter.


How is everyone's reception of the stations that changed channels?


Larry

SF

I'm getting KGO 7 reasonably well here, now that they're broadcasting from the top of Sutro. None of the others on Sutro, which is what I expected... I should be able to tell exactly when (KGO) they start their antenna work - I expect to loose KGO again, when that happens.
 
#4,599 ·
KGO is looking pretty bad in Sunnyvale with an indoor antenna. Anyone know of a good VHF indoor antenna? I have a Terk TV4 that doesn't get it reliably (I get NBC without problems). I am able to get everything else with my silver sensor with little difficulty (which also was able to get KGO on their old channel).
 
#4,600 ·
Hi,


When I installed the new FusionHDTV7 Dual software version 3.80 I saw problems.


I rolled back to 3.68.04 and the scan seems to be saying that KMTP, physical channel 33, virtual channel 32.x is actually saying that they are virtual 9.x.


If you can, please check physical 33's PSID for me.


KMTP is reporting on screen that they are having problems.


Thanks.


SHF
 
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