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Dune HD Base 3.0 and Prime 3.0 on Sigma 8642 in Q4 2009

728K views 6K replies 429 participants last post by  SilverBlade 
#1 ·
I think these two new 3.0 models by HDI deserve a separate thread for discussion.

HDI finally officially announced these models only today.


Dune HD Base 3.0 (Sigma Designs 8642, with SATA HDD 3.5" compartment):
http://dune-hd.com/hd_players/110-dune-hd-base-3.0.html


Dune BD Prime 3.0 (Sigma Designs 8642, Blu-ray drive and 2.5" internal HDD option):
http://dune-hd.com/hd_players/111-du...prime-3.0.html


Note that the prices currently are specified only for the EU market. US ones are not clear yet.

Though it's possible to predict that it will be on the level of PCH C-200 or smaller

(as the specified intervals for EU are a bit smaller that the current announced prices

for C-200 in EU).


Note also that they are going to show the both models during the few coming days

at IFA 2009 (September 4-9, Berlin, Germany. Hall 7.2a, booth 108),

and CEDIA Expo 2009 (September 10-13, Atlanta, USA. Hall B, booth 5751).

There is even a kind of invitation to these exhibitions posted today at MPC Club:
http://www.mpcclub.com/temp/dune_ifa.jpg

--


As both players are rather similar, here is the combined citated description from Dune HD site, to save your time:


Main features:

● SATA HDD compartment for fast and easy HDD exchange (for HD Base 3.0)

● Playback of retail Blu-ray and DVD discs (for Dune BD Prime 3.0)

● Playback of full Blu-ray structures from HDD and network (with Bluray

menu, BD-J, BonusView, BD-Live)

● Playback of video, music, photos from any media source (HDD, PC,

NAS, etc)

● Optical disc formats (when using an external optical drive): data discs (CD/

DVD/BD) (MP3, JPEG, etc), Audio CD (PCM/DTS), DVD-Video (retail and

user-authored discs), Blu-ray (user-authored discs)

● Support for modern video file formats (MKV, H.264, VC1, etc) with very

high bitrate (up to 50+ Mbit/s)

● Dimensions: 420 mm (width) x 262 mm (depth) x 50 mm (height)


connectors: three USB 2.0 ports (one front, two back), eSATA port, Ethernet 1Gbit/s,

HDMI 1.3, S/PDIF (optical and coaxial), 7.1 analog audio,

2.0 analog audio, component video, composite video.


Common specification:

● Processor: Sigma Designs 8642

● Memory: RAM 512 MB, system Flash: 1 GB+, BD-Live: 1 GB+

● Media sources: internal HDD (SATA 3.5”), external HDD (eSATA, USB), external

optical drive (eSATA, USB), USB devices (USB flash drive, USB card

reader, etc), PC and NAS in local network (SMB, NFS, UPnP, HTTP)

● Video codecs: MPEG2, MPEG4, DivX, XVID, WMV9, VC1, H.264

● Video file formats: MKV, MPEG-TS, MPEG-PS, M2TS, VOB, AVI, MOV, MP4, QT,

ASF, WMV, Blu-Ray-ISO, BDMV, DVD-ISO, VIDEO_TS

● Video output modes: wide range of supported modes and resolutions,

including 23.976p, 24p, PAL, NTSC

● Audio codecs: AC3 (Dolby Digital), DTS, MPEG, AAC, LPCM, WMA,

WMAPro, EAC3 (Dolby Digital Plus), Dolby True HD, DTS HD High Resolution

Audio, DTS HD Master Audio, FLAC, multichannel FLAC

● Audio file formats: MP3, MPA, M4A, WMA, FLAC, WAV, DTS-WAV, DTS, AC3,

AAC

● Pass-through and decoding of HD audio formats, including Dolby TrueHD

and DTS HD Master Audio

● Picture file formats: JPEG, PNG, BMP, GIF

● Subtitle formats: SRT, SUB, text/SSA/ASS (MKV), VobSub (MP4), PGS (full

Blu-ray mode)

● Playlist file formats: M3U, PLS

● Filesystems: FAT16/FAT32 (read-write), EXT2/EXT3 (read-write), NTFS (readonly)


Other features:

● Upscaling: high-quality upscaling and deinterlacing of DVD and other SD

content to HD resolution (up to 1080p)

● Access to network: browser of network shares (SMB, UPnP), user-defined

shortcuts to network shares (SMB, NFS), links to HTTP media streams

● NAS function: SMB and FTP access from network to the player’s attached

storage devices

● IPTV: direct playback and recording of multicast IPTV streams (raw-UDP

and RTP-over-UDP, SD and HD)

● Internet radio: HTTP/MP3

● Powerful fi le manager (copy, move, delete, rename, etc), built-in FTP and

SMB file server (NAS function)

● Photo viewer: slide-show function, picture transition effects, picture rotation

● Playlists: music/photos/video, user-defined and automatically generated

playlists, repeat and shuffle

● FullHD-quality, fast, convenient, customizable interface (with covert-art

and icon browsing support)

● Future (free f/w upgrade): Flash Lite 3 support

● Future (free f/w upgrade): Netflix support (for the USA market)


Options:

● Wi-Fi 802.11n

● Internal 2.5” SATA HDD

● Future option (Autumn 2009): RF remote, based on Z-Wave technology, a

heart of an aff ordable Smart Home system
 
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#52 ·
Fine fine, however I still do not catch this one


"My question: even if C-200 can remove Macrovision and put analog video in HD resolutions through the component output, doesn't it break any laws/licenses?

If so, even if they do it in the first f/w version, will they be forced to remove this possibility by authorities in the next f/w versions?"


Macrovision is a copy-protection for analog outputs as component.

Even when not removing Macrovision I still would be able to display via Component on my TV/Beamer.


You mean things change when the signal is getting upscaled within SIGMA-chip? - Upscaling would fail. Upscaling in TV/Beamer also would fail because of Macrovision and what would be left is a SD-signal via component.

Also HD-material over component getting downscaled to SD because of Macrovision?


Is that the message?
 
#53 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticc /forum/post/17134837


Macrovision is a copy-protection for analog outputs as component.

Even when not removing Macrovision I still would be able to display via Component on my TV/Beamer.


You mean things change when the signal is getting upscaled within SIGMA-chip? - Upscaling would fail. Upscaling in TV/Beamer also would fail because of Macrovision and what would be left is a SD-signal via component.

Also HD-material over component getting downscaled to SD because of Macrovision?


Is that the message?

I mean that 8643 chip doesn't work with Macrovision. So for any copy-protected staff (like DVD or Blu-ray) this chip can't output analog video:

1. w/o protection as it is illegal to remove it (for any signal, upscaled or not)

2. or with protection as this protection is Macrovision and Macrovision is not supported by the chip 8643 (again, for any signal, upscaled or not)


so I don't understand how legally it's possible to have _any_ kind of output from composite or component for legal DVDs or Blu-rays...


And if anything is done illegally, than it's just a matter of time when Macrovision will make problems to any such manufacturer like PCH. And then they will need to remove any analog video output at all for DVDs and Blu-ray in all the future versions of the firmware...


If see any problem with this logic, just tell me where exactly...
 
#54 ·
Okay, now I got it.

Thanks for your patience.


No macrovision supported by device --> no output on component of protected stuff (DVD as well as BR)


Right now macrovision-tweaking assumed in C-200, so component working for protected stuff.


In the future Tweak maybe has to be removed --> no protected material via Component.


Interesting.

And now someone please to confirm or to disprove. :)


Still using Component for my beamer, this will stay as is for quite a while.
 
#58 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostya /forum/post/17135446


what would be the point to protect only composite video if the component one is unprotected in any way?

Because (AFAIK) there is no recording devices with component input. Yes, except Hauppage... Macrovision protection was introduced more then 20 years ago, in VHS age...



And back on track. Kostya, would you be kind and answer on my question from post #20? I didn't find the answer in manual (for 1.0)... TIA!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...1&postcount=20
 
#59 ·
Does anybody have any information on the quality of the video processing (VP) produced by this 8642 chip?


I'm looking at the new Oppo BD-83 for a BR player, partly because it includes the Anchor Bay VRS chip for VP.


Consequently I'm thinking more along the lines of the Dune HD Base 3.0 model ... unless I it turns out that the VP in this box will be comparable.


BIG difference in overall cost. BIG difference in quality?


Thoughts?
 
#60 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison /forum/post/17135784


Does anybody have any information on the quality of the video processing (VP) produced by this 8642 chip?


I'm looking at the new Oppo BD-83 for a BR player, partly because it includes the Anchor Bay VRS chip for VP.


Consequently I'm thinking more along the lines of the Dune HD Base 3.0 model ... unless I it turns out that the VP in this box will be comparable.


BIG difference in overall cost. BIG difference in quality?


Thoughts?

I've played with the Oppo. If network media playback (or file playback) is not a big draw for you then the Oppo wins hands down. The Oppo is just a beautiful piece of machine. The Dunes are great for file playback and for network playback but they will not compare to the look of the Oppo.
 
#62 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy /forum/post/17135816


I've played with the Oppo. If network media playback (or file playback) is not a big draw for you then the Oppo wins hands down. The Oppo is just a beautiful piece of machine. The Dunes are great for file playback and for network playback but they will not compare to the look of the Oppo.

Thanks. Yeah, the Oppo looks great, but actually both network media playback AND BR play are both important to me. My issue is whether to get:


Separates: [Dune HD Base 3.0 + Oppo BD 83]


or


All-in-One: [Dune HD Prime 3.0]



The key factor is how much better as a player the Oppo would be Vs. the Prime. Would it be enough better to pay an additional ~$400, basically?


I'm thinking that with BR alone, there might not be any difference. It would only be with all the old DVDs lying around that the Oppo's VP would shine (unless, that is, the Prime has at least decent VP capability.)
 
#63 ·
oppo with anchor bay video processing (same as in their dvdo products) will crush the processing in 864x chips for those who are fussy about video quality.


only you can decide if it matters to you or not


i know some people who claim that the existing 863x processing of video is perfectly fine for them.................it sure isn't for me.
 
#65 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zyren /forum/post/17135547


I dont know what all this fuss is about. Macrovision is only for composite and s-video outputs. It does not affect component at all. Component is analog, but it doesnt use the same standards that composite and s-video does. Its completely different.

he-he. is it told this way by PCH?

INCORRECT!


Check this:
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html


Citation:

"Macrovision was not present on analog component video output of early players, but is now required on component output"


Any more questions?


Obviously, sooner or later PCH will have a conflict with Macrovision and will need to stop output of DVD/Blu-ray video to _all_ the analog output: composite/S-video and(!) component... as simple as that!
 
#66 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmp6 /forum/post/17137762


Can logitech Harmony one remote be used to control dune players? (besides the learning option)

I haven't come across any dune devices that can be controlled by logitech harmony.

according to the specs, Dune 3.0 (both Prime and Base) will support Z-Wave till the end of this year (the corresp. option will be available). It means, that yes, it should be possible to use some Logitech Harmony models (the ones which support Z-Wave, like 890, 895, 1000, 1100) to control Dune 3.0 players not only via IR, but also with RF signal (i.e. Z-Wave).
 
#67 ·
Interesting again :)

Looks like Kostya got a point.


However, when reading the complete description on

http://books.google.de/books?id=ikxu...ponent&f=false


page 5-15


this is valid and requested only for DVD-players.


I may be wrong, but the C-200 is not sold as a DVD-player but as network-device, and so does not need to provide macrovision on component-output.


----------------------

"You have the wrong code above it is deemed a network device and therefore 0%, another reason NOT to include a BD ROMWink


Dear Customer,


We do declare all the PCH products in International Trade Customs tariff

number : 8517620090 "Other apparatus for the transmission or reception of

voice, images or other data, including apparatus for communication in a

wired or wireless network (such as a local or wide area network)" "
 
#68 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticc /forum/post/17138966


Interesting again :)

Looks like Kostya got a point.


However, when reading the complete description on

...


page 5-15


this is valid and requested only for DVD-players.


I may be wrong, but the C-200 is not sold as a DVD-player but as network-device, and so does not need to provide macrovision on component-output.

...

yea, Chinese manufacturers always think they are very clever and can bypass any regulations in some clever way.

I may be wrong, but I think that for the Macrovision guys it will be enough if this player is sold by _any_ reseller with a DVD or Blu-ray drive inside (i.e. this reseller does an upgrade) and that it will really output unprotected analog video from any protected DVD or Blu-ray disc...

Such a case could be enough for both the reseller and the manufacturer, I believe (as obviously the software supporting such cracking is not done by a reseller
)
 
#69 ·
So I think this question won`t be answered here by us.


Whether it is tricking with "where and when Macrovision has to be or not" or tweaking (can`t see any cracking here) seems not to be answered as easily as I thought.


Kostya, you are very sure in`words, however I dont think there is reason for, but guessing why.


Let`s see whether some official statement on this will pop up.

Only then we will know


Surely I do not trust HDIs announcement, it is clearly "against competitor"-driven and no reliable souce.
 
#70 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticc /forum/post/17139101


So I think this question won`t be answered here by us.


Whether it is tricking with "where and when Macrovision has to be or not" or tweaking (can`t see any cracking here) seems not to be answered as easily as I thought.


Kostya, you are very sure in`words, however I dont think there is reason for, but guessing why.


Let`s see whether some official statement on this will pop up.

Only then we will know


Surely I do not trust HDIs announcement, it is clearly "against competitor"-driven and no reliable souce.

interest of HDI is obvious of course. What I'm telling here is just a logic based on facts everybody can find in Internet.

As I'm a mathematician, the conclusions are obvious for me,. But if anybody can see any problem in this logic, please tell me where I'm wrong...


I think anyway everybody already tired from this topic. Let's return back to Dune products here...
 
#72 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison /forum/post/17137102


Thanks. Yeah, the Oppo looks great, but actually both network media playback AND BR play are both important to me. My issue is whether to get:


Separates: [Dune HD Base 3.0 + Oppo BD 83]


or


All-in-One: [Dune HD Prime 3.0]



The key factor is how much better as a player the Oppo would be Vs. the Prime. Would it be enough better to pay an additional ~$400, basically?


I'm thinking that with BR alone, there might not be any difference. It would only be with all the old DVDs lying around that the Oppo's VP would shine (unless, that is, the Prime has at least decent VP capability.)

For me, if the picture quality of the BDs are equal (and they pretty much should be) and it does the things it advertises, then I’m going to relegate my Oppo BDP-83 to the bedroom. I don’t feel like adding another switch to my setup, so I can have 2 devices using the 5.1 Analogs on my receiver. I thought I’d like to have the SACD/DVD-A options, but it pales against the media player/Network options. I need a media player that can play my “backed up” BDs. I also have to dump my WD media player because it doesn’t work well with the BDs and it didn’t have component out. I was thinking of a Egreat EG-M34A, but now they said NetFlix streaming soon, I'll just stick with the Dune.


I just hope it load as fast as the BDP-83. That was a major plus.
 
#73 ·
My thoughts. 90% of PCH users use HDMI.


there is no logic buy 300USD device and use it for SD SIGNALS..



99% of PCH users just buy it for HD videos.. nothing else.



for SD users don't need to spend such huge amount of money. just buy DVD plays with USB DIVx etc. support for 60USD




Br.
 
#76 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostya /forum/post/17138908


he-he. is it told this way by PCH?

INCORRECT!

PCH just announed their response on the NMT forums.


"Component uses CGMS copy protection."

http://www.networkedmediatank.com/sh...1496#pid241496


However, werners post, the one before that one, stated:


"i wont go into details now because this would help HDI Wink, our solution is carefully checked with legal department and for sure there wont be any issue with macrovision and so not with component as i said!"


which kind of worries me about how legitimate it is.
 
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