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Can an RS-20 equal the RS-35?

8K views 103 replies 26 participants last post by  Tolstoi 
#1 ·
 Jeff Meier (umr) at AccuCal is an ISF magician. He has taken my video to the next level - one of the most breathtakingly glorious pictures I have ever seen. It beats my calibrated Pioneer Elite. It beats the Sim2 Lumis I demoed. It is absolutely stunning and transfixing. This is due in no small part to Jeff's exhaustive work last night, tweaking the grayscale and color to perfection.


It is also due to the fact that my RS-20 is apparently a "Royal Flush" of a projector (thanks Alan!) - possibly the sharpest 3-chipper Jeff's seen (DLP included), outstanding uniformity, and nearly 50,000:1 on/off contrast with the iris fully open, the highest he's measured. I have seen a number of RS-20's over the past year and none have blown my socks off. This time it was different. My jaw was on the floor with my blown-off socks. If this is what the RS-35 is capable of, then we are in for a real treat. Jeff is now considering an RS-35 for himself after seeing my unit.


I've had calibrations done on numerous displays in the past, but Jeff's work is singular. Alongside his extensive experience and knowledge, he packs a $25,000 spectroradiometer. He is extreme. He is thorough. No wonder major Hollywood studios and post-production houses go to him. If you want to tap into the full potential of your projector and experience all its glory, you owe it to yourself to let Jeff at it.
 
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#78 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness /forum/post/17348232


The 2nd and 3rd grid shots, since the 3rd one is a 100% crop of the 2nd one. What would really help is a macro lens, Canon's new macro should do the trick!

Must be my bad english causing misinterpretation, as I dont understand how this could come from 1 pixel wide pattern



By the way, I took this with my EF 70-200 F4, which happens to beat my 100F2.8 macro in many cases.
 
#83 ·
Oops, I guess the DVE bluray grid pattern is 2px. It's the same exact pattern Cam Man used on his RS-35 here . Unfortunately, I don't have a 1px pattern. Anyone know where to get one? The Spears & Munsil bluray doesn't have one either, just the black-on-white sharpness pattern with progressively thicker lines.


Cam Man's RS-35



RS-20 with a properly focused camera on tripod with remote using live view:








Don't I have better things to do than shoot crosshatches? Haha.
 
#84 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness /forum/post/17348799


Can you explain the differences you see between your RS20 before calibration, vs with umr's calibration?

In addition to perfect D65 grayscale and beautifully accurate color (particularly noticeable in foliage and skin tones), previously unseen color detail and fine shading in shadows were pulled out of the ether.
 
#85 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness /forum/post/17348799


fugueness,


Can you explain the differences you see between your RS20 before calibration, vs with umr's calibration?


Thanks,

While I don't pretend to understand it, when UMR did mine not only did the color improve greatly, the contrast ratio went from about 5000/1 to 25,000/1. I get considerable light scatter from my white, pitched ceiling. If I wasn't so lazy I'd do something about it and perhaps improve it even more.


Years ago I had an Elite 510 and was always fooling with the convergence. On my RS20 the white grid is nearly perfect, even with my face very close to the screen I see very little blue or red fringing. UMR told me there is variation from one sample to the next, I just happened to get one with very little error.


The only reason I'd have to upgrade, to the RS35 for instance, would be to obtain a better ANSI contrast ratio. If I could have everything the RS20 does AND have inky black bars when watching a Panavision movie, without having to mask, now that would be something.
 
#86 ·
On off CR is not dependent on room surfaces. It is independent. ANSI CR is dependent on room surfaces. Black bars will not be inky on any present generation digital machine. Use masking if you want black inky bars. Bumping upon\\off by 20,000 or in creasing ANSIby say even 100 will not do it.
 
#88 ·
I wonder if what is needed is a mechanical shutter insread of the stupid automatic lens cover that would allow the user to shutter over the projected black bars at the same position the auto lens cap is with say an adjustable shutter mechanism coated with a substance to reduce reflections? Expecting future JVC models to dramatically make projected black bars truly black is not realistic. Even doublimg on\\off would not help much. But blocking the projected bars might just be like absorbing them by a screen masking system.
 
#90 ·
Just following up on my conversation several days ago.


The convergence grid that I use is about 10 pixels wide, which is about what I thought. The newer photo seems to show that the JVC grid is about two pixels wide, which makes the convergence error about 1/2 pixel, which is probably average, maybe better than average.


Since owning digital projectors, given my visual accuity and my viewing distance of 15 feet from a 92" screen, any error less than one pixel is generally invisible to me.


Your mileage of course will vary...
 
#91 ·
...I have an RS20 in a dedicated theater room, and the matter of having inky black bars or not becomes more of a safety decision. The visibility of the bars, as in viewing 16:9 image with sidebars on my scope screen, is directly proportional to the degree to which the step lights and/or tray ceiling lights are dimmed. If the sidebars dissappear then egress becomes a hazard, as it becomes difficult for those unfamiliar to manuever in such dark surroundings. Alas, life is a compromise.
 
#92 ·
Black levels should always trump the safety of those seated in your room. Just remember that their presence there is temporary whereas your black levels are an issue every time you watch something.


Never compromise for the sake of others, just make sure they sign disclaimers and you'll be fine!!
 
#93 ·
Besides, they shouldn't be moving around the room during a movie anyways. If they want to do that tell them to hit the local cineplex where that type of thing is "tolerated".


If your room is so dark they can't move, you don't have to worry about them getting up and annoying you in the middle of the movie!!
 
#94 ·
.....I dunno, Kris, maybe if I wasn't already charging my guests $18 plus extra for drinks and snacks.
 
#96 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi /forum/post/17355638


.....I dunno, Kris, maybe if I wasn't already charging my guests $18 plus extra for drinks and snacks.

Charge an extra $5 for move-around privilege.


This is why I am getting IR / Z-wave switches. I will have the pause activity that raises the light a bit in the room but there will also be the bathroom activity that will turn the three lights required to get to the bathroom
 
#97 ·
Maybe motion sensors would help. That way if someone gets up, the lights come on just slightly. Or you could have a blaring alarm that says SIT DOWN, SHUT UP AND WATCH THE DAMN MOVIE!!!!!
 
#100 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering /forum/post/17355698


Maybe motion sensors would help. That way if someone gets up, the lights come on just slightly. Or you could have a blaring alarm that says SIT DOWN, SHUT UP AND WATCH THE DAMN MOVIE!!!!!

I would go with "feel free to move around at the local movie theater down the road......."
 
#101 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich /forum/post/17354144


I wonder what is needed is a mechanical shutter insread of the stupid automatic lens cover that would allow the user to shutter over the projected black bars at the same position the auto lens cap is with say an adjustable shutter mechanism coated with a substance to reduce reflections? Expecting future JVC modelto dramatically make projected black bars truly black is not realistic.Even doublimg on\\off would not help much. But blocking the projected bars would justlike absorbing them by a screen masking system.

That has been looked into. The masking needs to be deep inside the light path in order to have a sharp edge. That throws up a whole heap of issues.


Also, its not like a screen masking system, as that can absorb reflected light within the room. Black bars that were fully black in the PJ could still be grey in the room...same reason as ANSI is trashed by the room.
 
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