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The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic

378K views 4K replies 290 participants last post by  dturturro 
#1 ·
 
#77 ·
At $900 turnkey how does it compare to the Sony DHG-HDD for just OTA use?


The obvious is clear; 2 tuners instead of 1, double the storage space. Requires an Internet Hook Up which is very problematic here (construction-ugh), but it could be done at a cost of $70 per month for service– but still unreliable and high cost.


But my real questions center on the DVR itself:


1. Can it commercial skip like the Sony, instantly (a few short seconds), and start on the right place (or within a couple of seconds), or must you use those cumbersome 30 second jumps, or the other methods that all the other DVR’s use? I have used the TWC and Comcast Moto boxes(their latest), older TiVos, the latest AT&T U-Verse and I consider them all horrible.


2. Are “your” keyword search lists “stored”, so all “your” shows are located instantly? In reading the material it appears to be something they may be working on?


3. I am confused by the term used on the TiVo schedule your recordings – like it is something you have to do “well” ahead of time? (which you can do on the Sony of course); but does that mean you can also place “red dots” wherever your want to mark shows “instantly” right “now”, even if it is one you are currently watching (along with all your other red dots)?


4. When you schedule your recordings, I assume it does “instant” and “full” conflict resolution and “tells you” which shows are in conflict to allow “you” can make the adjustments “now” or “later” down to the “minute” level?



After reading and trying to understand the TiVo material I get the impression the “scheduling” of the recordings is something that is done over the internet and not done right “now” inside the box. So I honestly do not understand how that is to work?
 
#78 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18291576


1. Can it commercial skip

No DVR currently in production for sale in the United States supports commercial skip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18291576


2. Are your keyword search lists stored, so all your shows are located instantly?

If I understand you question, the answer is 'yes'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18291576


3. I am confused by the term used on the TiVo schedule your recordings - like it is something you have to do well ahead of time? (which you can do on the Sony of course); but does that mean you can also place red dots wherever your want to mark shows instantly right now, even if it is one you are currently watching (along with all your other red dots)?

It doesn't use a red dot, of course, but the principle is the same. If there is an issue, it is a rather minor tuner switch and then tuner switch back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18291576


4. When you schedule your recordings, I assume it does instant and full conflict resolution and tells you which shows are in conflict to allow you can make the adjustments now or later down to the minute level?

You're using too many loaded words. Ask your questions more discretely for better answers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18291576


After reading and trying to understand the TiVo material I get the impression the scheduling of the recordings is something that is done over the internet and not done right now inside the box. So I honestly do not understand how that is to work?

Scheduling via the Internet is actually relatively new. The basic way of setting up recordings is within the device.
 
#80 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 /forum/post/18294165


No DVR currently in production for sale in the United States supports commercial skip.


If I understand you question, the answer is 'yes'.


It doesn't use a red dot, of course, but the principle is the same. If there is an issue, it is a rather minor tuner switch and then tuner switch back.


You're using too many loaded words. Ask your questions more discretely for better answers.


Scheduling via the Internet is actually relatively new. The basic way of setting up recordings is within the device.

Thanks for the fast reply. It does not sound encouraging. Out of 4 items I am looking for; one is maybe and the other three are no.


Trying to clarify the one question what will it do and what options do you have for handling recording conflicts: Let’s set you already have NBC set up for 7PM to 10PM on one tuner (no conflicts). But on the other tuner you also have “24” set up on Fox and it is automatically set up to recorded from 8PM to 9:01PM, and then “CSI” comes on from 9PM to 10PM. What happens to that one minute conflict? When are you "notified" of that conflict? How is that handled? What controls do “you” have to instantly change as you see fit? Most of the DVR's I have seen so far are at best very cumbersome for this.
 
#82 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18294608


Thanks for the fast reply. It does not sound encouraging. Out of 4 items I am looking for; one is maybe and the other three are no.

Is that the way you read it? My answers were substantially positive -- two yes, one maybe, and one no -- and indeed the answer to your questions for TiVo are more positive than they would be with regard to most any other alternative.


Either that or perhaps I don't understand the context of your inquiries... Are you perhaps just looking for a reason to eliminate the TiVo from consideration, rather than looking for a reason to consider the TiVo? Or perhaps you're simply looking for something that just doesn't exist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18294608


Trying to clarify the one question what will it do and what options do you have for handling recording conflicts: Let’s set you already have NBC set up for 7PM to 10PM on one tuner (no conflicts). But on the other tuner you also have “24” set up on Fox and it is automatically set up to recorded from 8PM to 9:01PM, and then “CSI” comes on from 9PM to 10PM. What happens to that one minute conflict?

The lower priority recording gets clipped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18294608


When are you "notified" of that conflict?

It is handled for you based on your earlier indications of relative priority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18294608


What controls do “you” have to instantly change as you see fit?

You can go into the lower priority recording and eliminate the clipping. That will convert the recording to a manual scheduled recording, implicitly giving it higher priority, so the now-newly-lower priority recording will be clipped.
 
#83 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18294608


Trying to clarify the one question what will it do and what options do you have for handling recording conflicts: Let’s set you already have NBC set up for 7PM to 10PM on one tuner (no conflicts). But on the other tuner you also have “24” set up on Fox and it is automatically set up to recorded from 8PM to 9:01PM, and then “CSI” comes on from 9PM to 10PM. What happens to that one minute conflict? When are you "notified" of that conflict? How is that handled?

You don't have to worry about 1-5 minute conflicts causing missed recordings with TiVo. From the AVS FAQ:

Quote:
How does the TiVo handle situations where multiple programs conflict by just a few minutes?


The TiVo has a feature called "overlap protection" to address situations where three or more programs overlap by five minutes or less. When enabled (the default), this feature will automatically cut up to five minutes from the lowest priority recording if doing so will allow another scheduled series to record.


For example, suppose you had series recordings prioritized as follows in Season Pass Manager:

  1. 24 (normally Monday @ 9-10pm on FOX)
  2. Heroes (normally Monday @ 9-10pm on NBC)
  3. CSI Miami (normally Monday @ 10-11pm on CBS)
  4. True Beauty (normally Monday @ 10-11pm on ABC)


If an episode of Heroes runs from 9:00 to 10:02, then True Beauty is clipped by two minutes because it is the lowest priority series.


Programs that will be clipped have their time flagged with a * on the To Do List (record schedule).
 
#84 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 /forum/post/18294658



Either that or perhaps I don't understand the context of your inquiries... Are you perhaps just looking for a reason to eliminate the TiVo from consideration, rather than looking for a reason to consider the TiVo? Or perhaps you're simply looking for something that just doesn't exist.


Those 4 items I listed are just really important to me, and really hate to give them up - so spoiled I guess. To me, those items are some of the major reasons to even have a DVR.


Of course the current system I am using is TVGOS both good and bad. The TiVo would use the high cost internet both good and bad. There are always trade offs.



bfdtv, have you had experience using the Sony DVR? If so, how does it compare from an operational standpoint?
 
#87 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by skylab /forum/post/18296107


Does this support archiving content on blu-ray via a firewire or other conection?

You can use several software applications including TiVo Desktop to effect bidirectional transfers of TiVo recorded content to or from your PC. Then with an editing/authoring package like Video ReDo you can burn the HD content to BD or to DVD as AVCHD.


This of course works as long as your cable provider does not set the copy once flag on the programs of interest. It works for all programs recorded OTA.
 
#88 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18295561


Those 4 items I listed are just really important to me, and really hate to give them up - so spoiled I guess. To me, those items are some of the major reasons to even have a DVR.

I think you misinterpreted bicker's responses. TiVo offers three of those four features, although the implementation may differ somewhat from you are accustomed with the Sony DHD. With TiVo, you can save searches. You can click record on a live program to save the buffered portion together with the remainder. You can record immediately upcoming programs by selecting them in the EPG.


TiVo does not offer offer automatic commercial skip, but neither does the Sony or any other non-ReplayTV DVR. As far as I know, the only advantage Sony offers with regard to skipping commercials is the ability to customize the behavior of the ADVANCE button to jump multiple intervals of 30 seconds. TiVo's ADVANCE button is locked to 30 seconds, but you can can use macros on a universal remote to send multiple commands in sequence. On TiVo, this function doesn't lag as it does on most cable and satellite DVRs; you press ADVANCE four times without pause or delay and you've jumped two minutes within 0.3s.


The TiVo Premiere adjusts the default behavior of the ADVANCE button somewhat. Every time you press the ADVANCE button, the TiVo fast forwards through a 30 second interval at high speed. Pressing the ADVANCE multiple times in a row queues added time. Press the button six times by hand (or macro) and the DVR fast forwards through 180 seconds at high speed. You can interrupt this at any time by pressing PLAY. The traditional 30 second "instant" skip is still available for those that want it.


More on the behavior of the Premiere's ADVANCE button:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv /forum/post/18246613



Pressing and holding the ADVANCE button jumps to the end of the recording. If watching live TV on a delay, it jumps to the end of the live buffer (i.e. real-time).


Pressing and holding the REPLAY button jumps to the beginning of the recording. If watching live TV, it jumps to the beginning of the live buffer.


The TiVo places "tick" or chapter marks on the time bar at equal intervals. These tick marks are spaced every 15 minutes on live TV and recordings up to 3.0 hours, every 30 minutes on recordings 3.5 to 6.0 hours, and every hour on recordings 6.5 hours and longer. Each press of the ADVANCE button while fast forwarding will skip to the next "tick" on the time bar. Each press of the ADVANCE button while rewinding will skip to the previous "tick" on the time bar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18295561


Of course the current system I am using is TVGOS both good and bad. The TiVo would use the high cost internet both good and bad. There are always trade offs.

TiVo will offer a USB phone line adapter for those without broadband. However, the new HD UI may require broadband. Phone line users may be forced to use the older SD "Classic" UI. That is not yet clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18295561


bfdtv, have you had experience using the Sony DVR? If so, how does it compare from an operational standpoint?

Record and search are superior on the TiVo.


The primary advantage of the Sony is ClearQAM mapping. In addition to the the customizable ADVANCE duration, another Sony advantage is the ability to bookmark multiple spots in a recording; the TiVo remembers your last position, but you can't bookmark multiple spots. Compared to the classic TiVo UI, some also prefer the way Sony displays information directly for each program on the recorded list, without having to click SELECT on the program; the new HD UI on the TiVo Premiere incorporates that "feature."


Rammitinski found that SD upconversion was better on the Sony DHD than the TivoHD. The new chip in the Premiere claims improved video deinterlace, scaling capability, and font rendering, but until the product is released and compared, we won't know what effect that has on picture quality.


Since you mentioned search, I'll address that specifically. On the Premiere, there are two forms of search. The standard function searches every word in every program title and actor name, with results for actors, movies, and shows displayed in order by popularity. As an example, enter "G" and the first results listed are Grey's Anatomy, Glee, Gossip Girl, The Good Wife, and Ghost Whisperer. Enter "M" and the first results listed are Mad Men, Mythbusters, Masterpiece Classic, The Mentalist, Medium, and Mercy. The TiVo does not save these searches.


The second form of search on a TiVo is a wishlist. This is a saved search. From the TivoHD FAQ:

Quote:
A Wishlist is a saved search that combines one or more keywords, title keywords, actors, and/or directors with a category (such as sports event) of your choice. Each word or phrase you enter as a keyword or title keyword requires an exact match unless a wildcard is used. Creating a wishlist with separate keywords will require both matches by default. If you want to make a title keyword, keyword, actor, or director optional or excluded, you can do that with boolean operators. Highlight the entry, select it by pressing OK, and then use the "Thumbs up" button to toggle between required (AND), optional (OR), and excluded (NOT), as shown in this screenshot .


You can choose to display the results of this search, or you can set the TiVo to automatically record all future matches on the channels you receive, regardless of the date, time, and channel. If autorecord is set, the wishlist continuously searches the guide data for matches to record in the background, without any intervention from the user. Programs recorded by each wishlist are organized into a single folder with a customizable name. As with any other season pass, you prioritize autorecord wishlists in Season Pass Manager so they do not interfere with your favorite programs. You can choose whether to record new (first-run) programs only, or new and repeat episodes; you can also set the number of programs to keep and whether to keep until space is needed or until you manually delete.


With the option to auto-record, these saved searches allow you create custom season passes to record specific events (or groups of events) whenever and wherever they are broadcast. It allows you to define the record parameters, rather than letting the guide do it for you based only on program title. This eliminates the need to keep up with TV schedules for pro and college sports teams; it also eliminates the need to keep up with the TV schedules for award shows, golf tournaments, tennis tournaments, racing events, etc.

You can find a number of wishlist examples with screenshots for existing TiVos here . TiVo has not said (or shown) what changes the Premiere will make to this functionality.
 
#89 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv /forum/post/18258428


I don't think the SoC in the TiVo Premiere has DTS audio support. It should play 1080p MKVs with other audio formats at some point, although probably not at release.

Even if it supported DLNA/UPnP playback with a set list of supported codecs, that would be a massive win for me.. As long as the codecs were known, they could be plugged into, say, ps3mediaserver as a configuration plugin and have my i7 server do all the transcoding (via mplayer/tsmuxer)..


btw, is it confirmed that the traditional 30sec skip is supported on the Premiere with the traditional key sequence? Because the one thing Tivo could do that would have me ditch them immediately would be to irreparably f--k with 30s skip.
 
#90 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Widlflower /forum/post/18298998


Even if it supported DLNA/UPnP playback with a set list of supported codecs, that would be a massive win for me.. As long as the codecs were known, they could be plugged into, say, ps3mediaserver as a configuration plugin and have my i7 server do all the transcoding (via mplayer/tsmuxer)..


btw, is it confirmed that the traditional 30sec skip is supported on the Premiere with the traditional key sequence? Because the one thing Tivo could do that would have me ditch them immediately would be to irreparably f--k with 30s skip.

really? I never use the 30 second skip, it's not exact enough. I'm really good with the fast forward / play.
 
#91 ·
Thanks bfdtv you have been very helpful in answering my questions.


Based on what as been said; it appears the TiVo wishlist will perform about the same as the Sony Keyword or at least close enough. On all the other DVR's I have used you have to type in the keyword all-the-time which for me defeats the purpose.


Ok, on the TiVo you said:


>>>The TiVo Premiere adjusts the default behavior of the ADVANCE button somewhat. Every time you press the ADVANCE button, the TiVo fast forwards through a 30 second interval at high speed. Pressing the ADVANCE multiple times in a row queues added time. Press the button six times by hand (or macro) and the DVR fast forwards through 180 seconds at high speed. You can interrupt this at any time by pressing PLAY. The traditional 30 second "instant" skip is still available for those that want it.


I had forgotten the Sony has this feature-Advance, since I never use it. It basically matches what I have seen on all DVR's. The part that struck me as the most interesting in your statement was adjusts the default behavior. So let me try my question another way. This is how I use commercial skip. It does not matter if there is 15 seconds of commercials or 10 minutes (or more). For example, on American Idol kick-em-off show I think some of the commercials are often 10 minutes or more?.


So while watching a recorded show and a commercial comes on, I select fast forward at 30X speed (some shows are so bad I will select 90X), then when I see the show I hit Play, and the program will start where I want it to. The way I have the user controls set up, this means (for me-user definable), I may see from 0 to at most 15 seconds of commercials - I would say it is from 0 to 5 seconds of commercials 95% of the time. This has nothing to do with how long the commercial break was, etc. The screen shots below are in set up.


Pic 8154: All of these items are adjustable, but I will focus on just the Smart Cue Adjust


Pic 8155: For my 30X speed I have selected an automatic 30 second rewind, and for my 90X speed I have selected a 60 second rewind.


Pic 8156: Sony's explanation etc


Pic 8157: One of their helps on Advance Time Adjust, but I do not use that feature.


There are other adjustments on what I call transport controls Pic 8154; but to me the Smart Cue Adjust is one of the most important.


So does the new TiVo have something like that for commercial skip?



 
#92 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott /forum/post/18299031


really? I never use the 30 second skip, it's not exact enough. I'm really good with the fast forward / play.

Yep, 30s skip and then the 10s backtrack, been doin that for a long long time and it's probably the primary reason I haven't looked at cableco-provided DVRs.


I actually had an old VCR that attempted to do commercial skipping (presumably via sound levels or some overscan bugs or somesuch) but it never was reliable, and I find the 30s skip works just fine for me.
 
#93 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18299386


This is how I use commercial skip. It does not matter if there is 15 seconds of commercials or 10 minutes (or more). For example, on American Idol kick-em-off show I think some of the commercials are often 10 minutes or more?.


So while watching a recorded show and a commercial comes on, I select fast forward at 30X speed (some shows are so bad I will select 90X), then when I see the show I hit Play, and the program will start where I want it to. The way I have the user controls set up, this means (for me-user definable), I may see from 0 to at most 15 seconds of commercials - I would say it is from 0 to 5 seconds of commercials 95% of the time.

With traditional tivo 30s skip it's much easier than that.. Commercials start, skip-skip-skip-skip-skip-backtrack-backtrack and you are exposed to at most 5-10s of the last commercial. The newer 'Premiere' default skip is more like the 'advance' you mention, where advertisements just whizz by. The traditional tivo skip does not expose a moment of ads, except at the end if you overskip.


Frankly, with a lot of stations, the lead-in ad is usually some station-dependent thing and that doesn't really bother me a whole lot compared to actual ads. For example, on Military Channel the lead-in ad off a break is usually promoting another show on the network, and I can live with the last 10s of that. But another goddamn JG wentworth or reverse-mortgage ad? I would dump Tivo if I couldn't avoid that crap.
 
#94 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Widlflower /forum/post/18300013


Yep, 30s skip and then the 10s backtrack, been doin that for a long long time and it's probably the primary reason I haven't looked at cableco-provided DVRs.


I actually had an old VCR that attempted to do commercial skipping (presumably via sound levels or some overscan bugs or somesuch) but it never was reliable, and I find the 30s skip works just fine for me.

I just hit the ff button three times, hit play when I see the program and it usually jumps back automatically just enough to hit the beginning of the return from commercial. If not, I just hit skip back once and I'm good. Usually takes 5 seconds
 
#95 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Widlflower /forum/post/18298998


btw, is it confirmed that the traditional 30sec skip is supported on the Premiere with the traditional key sequence? Because the one thing Tivo could do that would have me ditch them immediately would be to irreparably f--k with 30s skip.

That's what I was told. If you want to be 100% certain this option remains in the release software, wait for the reviews.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18299386


So does the new TiVo have something like that for commercial skip?

Yes, the TiVo has autocorrection for both 20x and 60x FF and RW speeds.


You hit the FF button three times for 60x speed, and then you hit the FF button a fourth time (or PLAY) when you see the program. The TiVo autocorrects and skips backward, so you catch the last 1-5 seconds of the commercials without missing any of the program.


TiVo once allowed the user to adjust the skipback using remote codes, but they no longer allow that. They've settled on a liberal skipback tailored for those with average to below average reflexes. You should be fine with the default unless you have FPS-type reflexes and can't adapt.
 
#96 ·
Not sure what "FPS" means but I have to dumb down my reflexes a tad. If I push PLAY as soon as I see the program start back up, inevitably I end up watching the last 10 seconds of commercials. If I let the FF'ing continue a microsecond past when I'd normally push PLAY it lands just perfectly at the continuation of the program.

Using the delayed PLAY method works 95% of the time for me which is just fine. As b_scott said, about 5 seconds tops to skip the ads.
 
#97 ·
I like the 30 sec skip. Since I have a Harmony remote I have buttons programmed with skip macros for 2 min and 3 min skips. During football season I add 90 sec skip macros which covers 90% of football commercials.
 
#98 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott /forum/post/18299031


really? I never use the 30 second skip, it's not exact enough. I'm really good with the fast forward / play.


The 30 second skip in conjuction with the 7 second skip back works perfectly for me. Much faster than using fast forward.


Will The Premiere still have the 7 second Skip back since it does have a 30 second slip forward.
 
#99 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson /forum/post/18299386


Thanks bfdtv you have been very helpful in answering my questions.


Based on what as been said; it appears the TiVo wishlist will perform about the same as the Sony Keyword or at least close enough. On all the other DVR's I have used you have to type in the keyword all-the-time which for me defeats the purpose.


Ok, on the TiVo you said:


>>>The TiVo Premiere adjusts the default behavior of the ADVANCE button somewhat. Every time you press the ADVANCE button, the TiVo fast forwards through a 30 second interval at high speed. Pressing the ADVANCE multiple times in a row queues added time. Press the button six times by hand (or macro) and the DVR fast forwards through 180 seconds at high speed. You can interrupt this at any time by pressing PLAY. The traditional 30 second "instant" skip is still available for those that want it.


I had forgotten the Sony has this feature-Advance, since I never use it. It basically matches what I have seen on all DVR's. The part that struck me as the most interesting in your statement was adjusts the default behavior. So let me try my question another way. This is how I use commercial skip. It does not matter if there is 15 seconds of commercials or 10 minutes (or more). For example, on American Idol kick-em-off show I think some of the commercials are often 10 minutes or more?.


So while watching a recorded show and a commercial comes on, I select fast forward at 30X speed (some shows are so bad I will select 90X), then when I see the show I hit Play, and the program will start where I want it to. The way I have the user controls set up, this means (for me-user definable), I may see from 0 to at most 15 seconds of commercials - I would say it is from 0 to 5 seconds of commercials 95% of the time. This has nothing to do with how long the commercial break was, etc. The screen shots below are in set up.


Pic 8154: All of these items are adjustable, but I will focus on just the Smart Cue Adjust


Pic 8155: For my 30X speed I have selected an automatic 30 second rewind, and for my 90X speed I have selected a 60 second rewind.


Pic 8156: Sony's explanation etc


Pic 8157: One of their helps on Advance Time Adjust, but I do not use that feature.


There are other adjustments on what I call transport controls Pic 8154; but to me the Smart Cue Adjust is one of the most important.


So does the new TiVo have something like that for commercial skip?


I'm glad the TiVo doesn't have a bucnh of adjustments like that. It would be a PITA having to adjust everything on my nine TiVos. then I would have to mess around with it constantly since I would know the settings are there. Sometimes having less adjustments is better.
 
#100 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv /forum/post/18301679



You hit the FF button three times for 60x speed, and then you hit the FF button a fourth time (or PLAY) when you see the program. The TiVo autocorrects and skips backward, so you catch the last 1-5 seconds of the commercials without missing any of the program.


TiVo once allowed the user to adjust the skipback using remote codes, but they no longer allow that. They've settled on a liberal skipback tailored for those with average to below average reflexes. You should be fine with the default unless you have FPS-type reflexes and can't adapt.


That sounds like it should work. I can macro the 60x, and if the "rewind" is liberal for a slow response person like me; I would only have to hit two buttons like I do now, and not hit advance skip 10 to 30 times and pray; it is for that very reason I did not like all that advance skip stuff - way too many button hits.
 
#101 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt /forum/post/18302524


I'm glad the TiVo doesn't have a bucnh of adjustments like that. It would be a PITA having to adjust everything on my nine TiVos. then I would have to mess around with it constantly since I would know the settings are there. Sometimes having less adjustments is better.

I made the "one" adjustment about 5 years ago - so I can still handle that just fine.
 
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