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NEW MFW-15 amps (May 2010) *pics*

301K views 3K replies 300 participants last post by  1stHD 
#1 ·
Well gents, I got a replacement amp and I'm not really sure what to think. They weigh about half of what the others did and now don't support the seperate phase/gain/xover panel. Check it out...if some one can post them, I have no idea how...

http://img72.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img1453l.jpg
 
#52 ·
"Ok, let me see if I can cover all of the points here. The new amplifier is indeed different from our original and modified MFW-15 amps. This new amp is completely produced here in the USA. The manufacturer is actually located about two blocks from the main office. The power rating on this amp is actually slightly higher than the old version. The old transformer had a rating of 350VA and the new one has a rating of 500VA. I am not sure what is going on with the poster's unit over on AVS I really wish he would either call or email us. As for the missing high level inputs we removed those as they were rarely being used so we decided to can the inputs. With the control panel we decided to move it onboard to alleviate potential issues with the control panel wires coming off during shipping. This has happened numerous times in the past.

To answer the questions about the input colors we were actually thinking about integrating a VCR to the units but held off as we are starting our search for some beta units as VHS won't out last Beta
In all seriousness this was the triple RCA part that was the most readily available to our vendor." (AV123 Sales).


I actually like the minimalist design of the new amp. Compare the transformer to one of emotiva's amp sections and they look pretty darn similar. A heat sink would have been nice, but so would a cupholder, and cruise control.



How about quiet? None of the old version amps seem to be dead quiet, and gain might have been one of the tradeoffs to getting the noise floor where its needed.


Those with new amps:
  1. are you able to get the same output by turning the gain up on the controller?
  2. How are you measuring output, spl meter?
  3. Hows the noise floor?
  4. When turned up that high on the gain knob on the amp, are you getting any clipping during demanding moments?
 
#53 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi /forum/post/18661228


"Ok, let me see if I can cover all of the points here. The new amplifier is indeed different from our original and modified MFW-15 amps. This new amp is completely produced here in the USA. The manufacturer is actually located about two blocks from the main office. The power rating on this amp is actually slightly higher than the old version. The old transformer had a rating of 350VA and the new one has a rating of 500VA. I am not sure what is going on with the poster's unit over on AVS I really wish he would either call or email us. As for the missing high level inputs we removed those as they were rarely being used so we decided to can the inputs. With the control panel we decided to move it onboard to alleviate potential issues with the control panel wires coming off during shipping. This has happened numerous times in the past.

To answer the questions about the input colors we were actually thinking about integrating a VCR to the units but held off as we are starting our search for some beta units as VHS won't out last Beta. In all seriousness this was the triple RCA part that was the most readily available to our vendor." (AV123 Sales).


I actually like the minimalist design of the new amp. Compare the transformer to one of emotiva's amp sections and they look pretty darn similar. A heat sink would have been nice, but so would a cupholder, and cruise control.

Personally I don't care how it looks, what has me wondering is they are shipping brand new A stock MFW's with this new amp, which is fine if it has the performance of the old amp. However people are getting a control module up top that does nothing and per jehanzeb he was confused why when he changed the settings on the control module nothing happened. Which makes sense if AV123 doesn't tell him when they sold it to him that the top module does nothing.


They should have had block off plates made so the sub actually looks like a subwoofer made by a professional company. Instead it makes AV123 look like they 1. either don't care what people think anymore, 2. are too cheap to make the plates because they are ridding themselves of what's left or 3. no idea, I could not build something like this and then ship it the way they did so my guess is it's a combo of all three, they have not said or done anything to prove otherwise.

Quote:
How about quiet? None of the old version amps seem to be dead quiet, and gain might have been one of the tradeoffs to getting the noise floor where its needed.


Those with new amps:
  1. are you able to get the same output by turning the gain up on the controller?
  2. How are you measuring output, spl meter?
  3. Hows the noise floor?
  4. When turned up that high on the gain knob on the amp, are you getting any clipping during demanding moments?

Right now I think I'm one of two people getting this new amp that has another one to directly compare to. Mine should arrive tomorrow and I will take SPL measurments and try to answer your questions.
 
#54 ·
I believe that new transformer is toroidal(correct me if I'm wrong). I think the old ones are laminated. If this is true, that would be an improvement in many of the areas the old amp was deficient.
  • Toroidal Transformers(TTs) are 10-15% more efficient. Hence no auto-off.
  • TTs produce less stray fields. This is also a claimed culprit of the hummm most of us have experienced.
  • They much quieter when operating.
  • They run cooler, which is good because my old amps run REALLY HOt. This might also contribute to the failure rates of the amps.
  • TTs are supposed to perform better under load

TTs are generally more expensive, so, if it is a TT then I like that part.
 
#55 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi /forum/post/18669386


I believe that new transformer is toroidal(correct me if I'm wrong). I think the old ones are laminated. If this is true, that would be an improvement in many of the areas the old amp was deficient.
  • Toroidal Transformers(TTs) are 10-15% more efficient. Hence no auto-off.
  • TTs produce less stray fields. This is also a claimed culprit of the hummm most of us have experienced.
  • They much quieter when operating.
  • They run cooler, which is good because my old amps run REALLY HOt. This might also contribute to the failure rates of the amps.
  • TTs are supposed to perform better under load

TTs are generally more expensive, so, if it is a TT then I like that part.

Thanks! I like it, however no auto shut off, 10 to 15% more efficient doesn't mean they shouldn't be powered off when not being used. Thankfully the broken auto shut off from the old ones taught me to power them off myself anyway. My new amp says out for delivery on the UPS website so I'll have some feedback on it very soon.
 
#58 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by wje /forum/post/18669525


Are these even approved amplifiers. Where's the UL and CE markings? I guess they never meant much before since they are just silk-screened markings ... but still.

The UL listing would basically have to do with things like human safety while the CE mostly has to do with stuff outside of the US. It (FCC that is) may or may not be required but with the amp being made domestically from a reputable place (QSC in Colorado), I doubt they would place either marking on the amp because they would not want to be liable if the stuff wasn't tested and someone were to inform the appropriate agencies.
 
#61 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Im2sexy /forum/post/18669996


I always thought that the UL was a voluntary program where you submitted products to a nongovernmental company (UL) and had them tested for safety. Is it a law in the US that any electronics needs to be UL approved?

I'm not sure if it's for all electronics but it's something that can be looked into. Maybe next week. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it's a very prudent thing to have for devices that plug into the wall.
 
#62 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai /forum/post/18670274


I'm not sure if it's for all electronics but it's something that can be looked into. Maybe next week. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it's a very prudent thing to have for devices that plug into the wall.

I went to UL's site and searched "subwoofer amplifier" and there are not many company's that are UL listed. I also think its a prudent thing to do but I think its done more for PR than out of concern for the publics safety
 
#63 ·
I'm not sure what terms you'd search under. However, you can look at other suppliers of subs and/or separate amps and see if they're UL listed. I think you'll find that in general they do have a UL sticker somewhere which if legit, provides the consumer with some measure of safety if something were to go awry. Like anything else, proper testing costs money and I would say somewhere in the vicinity of $5K is a reasonable point. Now for that amount of money, MLS can buy and sell a lot of amps.
 
#64 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by crOwcaine /forum/post/18670229


For the record, when my v3 amp was installed, it hummed the same as the old ones. Maybe even more. MFW's hum, all of them. I'm not going to kid myself and neither should anyone else.

Call me lucky, none of mine have any hum.
I just received the new amp, first impression is the center bolt needs a lock washer. The transformer spins freely so I had to tighten it up fresh out of the box.


The perception of the amp being cheap, well, they didn't silk screen anything but the PCB's behind the black plate. I don't think anybody cares about the PCB's being labled except for the owner of AV123. In my view, no matter how good the amplifier may be, it LOOKS cheap and first impressions are hard to get over. If I were AV123 I would at minimum put the company logo on it as in previous versions of the amp. Anything would be better than the stark look of this new amp. How about AV123 "Proudly made in the USA", if you could print proudly made in China, how hard can it be to say the same thing about having it made in your own country.


Next up, the on/off switch is a 3 position switch however the middle position turns it on just like going to position 3.


Setting up the gain is different than setting it up on the MFW with v1 and v2 amplifiers. If I get a new v2 amp I know if I set the gain the same as my other MFW it will dial in exactly and they typically do, I have had 6 amplifiers worth of setting them up to get to know this.


Amp v3 is a different animal and I can't set it up in the HT with the other MFW because the wife is in one of those rare moods (not so rare since menapause has set in), any married guy who's wife is going through this knows, if she is in a mood (young guys, the moods your wife goes through now, pale, trust me!) you head to the man cave or any where she isn't. Generally I just watch TV with her and wait till she becomes human again...


Ok, TMI meters running high so time to digress, so back to the amp. I have it in the man cave running my Franken MFW and it does take more gain, about a 1/4 or more of a turn of the knob to get the same output as amp v2, does this mean it has less power? No, I don't believe so but I can't crank it up to see how it compares either.


Initially, sound quality is good, it seems to push the driver even at low volumes as well as the previous amp. When the wife heads to Best Buy I'll do some louder testing but for now it does work.


Amplifier quality compared to v2, looking at the components this amplifier looks like it's using better components. The PCB's look to be the same thickness but the soldering is cleaner and parts are closer to the board. I would say this board is as much better as v2 was to v1. V1 was a mess, the components looked like a 10 year old was givin a short lesson on installation and then set loose to build an amp. At least the v1's I had were that way.


One complaint, the port for the power plug, I have to jam it in to get a connection. At first I thought I got a dud amp but a second shove got it in far enough.


More later, waiting for the wife to head to the store...
 
#66 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Im2sexy /forum/post/18670788


KH you are a whimp!!!!!!

Dude, you come over and if after 10 minutes you get further than me I'll buy you a 12 pack. After she has removed your balls and served them to you, you owe me a 12 pack. Deal?



I'm just a realist, a woman going through menopause is a dangerous creature, if you don't know this you haven't met one.




EDIT: I'm mostly joking about this of course.
 
#67 ·
Ok, I've been putting this off because my wife came home with my new Samsung C8000 55" TV. See, sometimes you win when poeople think you're a wimp.



I have been putting the new amp through it's paces, I've tried it every which way and my findings are this. This new v3 amplifier may be a fine amp, I cannot say it isn't electronically but I can say without a doubt that it has nowhere near the output capability of the previous v2 amplifier (speaking for the one I received of course).


I know Kyle would want me to wait until Monday to discuss this with them and I will but my findings need to be known for those that are going to be getting this new amplifier.


I won't go through the 2 hours worth of swapping and testing I'll just say this. Even with the gain set to 100% and the AVR running the amp 10db hot (over the stock v2 amp) the old amp with the gain at 11am position slaughters the new amp by 10db.


Using my rat shack meter with the AVR volume at -2, the stock v2 MFW gain at 11am and playing "Who wants to play" by Bassic which hits very hard the v2 MFW hit 110db and setting the v3 amp this exact way netted a paltry 90db, down by nearly 20db's.


So, I turned up the gain knob on the v3 amp to 100% and got 94db and then ran the AVR to +4 db, which is 10db hotter than I run the v2 MFW at and got it to hit 99db. Driver excursion for the v3 amp wasn't near what the v2 is capable of. The sheer output difference is night and day so I think I can guarantee that AV123 will not have to worry about bottoming out calls with subs sold with this amplifer in it.


One positive note, the new amp runs cold, no matter how hard you drive it. This was not the most scientific test by any means but it should have been easy to dial in the new amp if it had the same output as the old amp. The biggest deal would have been figuring out where to set the gain on the sub amp. I could find no way of getting the intense output I easily get with my old MFW amps.


Trying to set this new amp to work WITH a v2 powered MFW was impossible. You simply can't even tell the new one is in the system, I played WOTW pod emerging scene and sure the bass was good but that was because I had one solid MFW already in the system, it did not have the impact I'm used to. So, I cranked up BassMekanik and lets just say my meter didn't have to be set above 120 as before.


I removed my 1st MFW and used the one powered by the new amp and WOTW made a joke out of it. I honestly can not imagine leaving this amp installed in this MFW and I doubt I'll be sent a V2 since I have been through 6 of them so this could get interesting. Needless to say, even my wife who could care less could tell the difference, and if anything this made her happy as the room doesn't shake as much.


I may have some very upset people at AV123 for not waiting until Monday but there are a few guys that now have these amps and they deserve to know what I found out tonight.
 
#69 ·
Thanks KH for the comparison. Sounds like power was cut in the v3 which would naturally solve heat issues and make it last longer. So if the goal was dependability they might have hit something. Most people who purchase new wouldn't have a clue as to past performance and the ones who've had the v1 or v2 well, who knows what they will come up with to justify the performance differences, if anything.


I've also got a pair with v2 amps and no humm, we must have the only 4. Even the auto function works although it's implementation is useless saving a watt. The only issues I've had with mine weren't really issues but good ole AV123 QC and should have been taken care of before they got to me. I purchased in August when the first v2 amps were shipping and they forgot to include the sticker on the amps that denotes the v2 amp. I pulled them for peace of mind to verify and they were indeed v2. Not long after that screw and driver not being sealed all the way around issues came up. So again I go to work and pulled the drivers, screws were fine but guess what, both foam strips were about 3 inches to short to go around for a complete seal. It's like they intentionally meant to do it, both were the same (now that's penny pinching). A quick trip to Home Depot solved that.


Other than the 2 stupid QC items listed above they've been great. I didn't expect them to last this long when I bought them so they've exceeded my expectations by far, if they do go thump in the night I won't be dealing with AV123 for any kind of solution. Your comparison is a prime example of AV123s just get something out there, just so it works for now business practice.


I wouldn't worry about upsetting people at AV123 by not waiting till Monday. You gave your objective findings on a product you own, nothing wrong with that and besides they've upset quite a few people in the past themselves.
 
#71 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV123 Sales /forum/post/0


The power rating on this amp is actually slightly higher than the old version. The old transformer had a rating of 350VA and the new one has a rating of 500VA. I am not sure what is going on with the poster's unit over on AVS I really wish he would either call or email us.

That would mean AV123 Sales is lying to us?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 /forum/post/18671370


I may have some very upset people at AV123

Geez... those poor guys. After all, they are only the ones providing us with their cheap, sub par amps for 5 years and now telling us these obviously less powerful new amps are more powerful as if we are going to just fall for the Jedi Mind Trick. They shoot it straight don't they? Another lesson in morality from the fellows in Longmont.
 
#72 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 /forum/post/18671370


I know Kyle would want me to wait until Monday to discuss this with them and I will but my findings need to be known for those that are going to be getting this new amplifier.

If you posted this over there it would have been deleted anyway, so by posting over here at least people can read the continuing decline of what was once hailed (incorrectly?) as a giant-killer at low prices.


This will be very valuable to new people who aren't aware of the company's legal and quality trouble.
 
#73 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed M /forum/post/18673087


That would mean AV123 Sales is lying to us?

No, the amp may actually have more power but it's pre amp section might not be up to par. So I'm unsure where the issue is but no matter where the issue is my v2 amp lays the smack down on the new one in output/impact.

Quote:
Geez... those poor guys. After all, they are only the ones providing us with their cheap, sub par amps for 5 years and now telling us these obviously less powerful new amps are more powerful as if we are going to just fall for the Jedi Mind Trick. They shoot it straight don't they? Another lesson in morality from the fellows in Longmont.

I hope to have some answers on Monday after I call them.
 
#74 ·
I just ran Avatar through the ringer with the new and old subwoofer using my wife as the person to decide which version sounded better.


Now keep in mind she could care less, she picked v2 over v3 and said it was no contest. Half the tme she couldn't tell if the sub was on when using v3 and I never told her which one was in play.


V3 goes back into the box.
 
#75 ·
Wow, what a good sport she is... my wife would've never played along with me, she wants to watch a movie just once, in its entirety and sounding right the first time or else she'll leave the room. I'd say you got a keeper there...
 
#76 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer /forum/post/18675196


Wow, what a good sport she is... my wife would've never played along with me, she wants to watch a movie just once, in its entirety and sounding right the first time or else she'll leave the room. I'd say you got a keeper there...

She has her moments.
Using Avatar helps, she loves this movie.
 
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