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The Official Panasonic HDC-TM900 Owners Thread

180K views 1K replies 157 participants last post by  philtill@Lcom.net 
#1 ·
Tips and tricks on the tm900.
 
#77 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu /forum/post/20162985


So about how long a clip would it take to show up the problem?

I can try and take a vid that is really busy and see if that helps. My upload speeds are awful so to upload a 1GB file would probably take all night.

The vid with the basketball players didn't cause a crash/freeze for me. I'll have to try something once I get the camera on Friday.

Steve, it's not really about my Slim PS3, but more about your Fat PS3. Any busy footage that makes the bitrate jump to a 33 to 36Mbps rate causes my slim to hiccup. It could be any length really, but it has to have alot of action in the footage to make the cam's bitrate go that high.


Let me explain exactly what I am seeing when the bitrate gets too high for my ps3 to handle. I do not see any stuttering, crashing , or freezing when it happens.


The video looks like it's slowed down (think slow-mo), and has less detail and sharpness. The slowing down is very subtle. I can see some people not being able to detect it. Also, the sound is fine while all this is going on. You can really tell by keeping the PS3's information screen up at all times, that way you can monitor the bitrate on the fly. When the problem occurs the bitrate will go to single digits..8 to 9 Mbps.


I appreciate you offering to upload a large file as I would like to see more native files from the 900 anyway, but it's really not necessary. I'd rather you concentrate on watching your footage carefully to see if your PS3 has the same problem as mine, and reporting a definitive yes or no.


I have tried every setting that I can think of to eliminate this problem, including turning all enhancements off. Thanks alot...
 
#78 ·
That is what mine is doing but it also shakes like it's lagging like I wasn't holding the camera steady but played through camera it's perfect. it's a new ps3 that I played through a card reader. Tonight I'll see if it's the same if I save it to the ps3 hd. This was for both panny 700 and 900 clips

Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham /forum/post/20166342


Steve, it's not really about my Slim PS3, but more about your Fat PS3. Any busy footage that makes the bitrate jump to a 33 to 36Mbps rate causes my slim to hiccup. It could be any length really, but it has to have alot of action in the footage to make the cam's bitrate go that high.


Let me explain exactly what I am seeing when the bitrate gets too high for my ps3 to handle. I do not see any stuttering, crashing , or freezing when it happens.


The video looks like it's slowed down (think slow-mo), and has less detail and sharpness. The slowing down is very subtle. I can see some people not being able to detect it. Also, the sound is fine while all this is going on. You can really tell by keeping the PS3's information screen up at all times, that way you can monitor the bitrate on the fly. When the problem occurs the bitrate will go to single digits..8 to 9 Mbps.


I appreciate you offering to upload a large file as I would like to see more native files from the 900 anyway, but it's really not necessary. I'd rather you concentrate on watching your footage carefully to see if your PS3 has the same problem as mine, and reporting a definitive yes or no.


I have tried every setting that I can think of to eliminate this problem, including turning all enhancements off. Thanks alot...
 
#79 ·
I have seen no shakiness in the raw videos that I have viewed. I can't think of any reason why you would see this.


You can down convert your footage to a lower bitrate in-camera using the cams menu system. I have heard that it looks almost the same. Why don't you give that a try and see what you think gso.
 
#80 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham /forum/post/20166342


Steve, it's not really about my Slim PS3, but more about your Fat PS3. Any busy footage that makes the bitrate jump to a 33 to 36Mbps rate causes my slim to hiccup. It could be any length really, but it has to have alot of action in the footage to make the cam's bitrate go that high.


Let me explain exactly what I am seeing when the bitrate gets too high for my ps3 to handle. I do not see any stuttering, crashing , or freezing when it happens.


The video looks like it's slowed down (think slow-mo), and has less detail and sharpness. The slowing down is very subtle. I can see some people not being able to detect it. Also, the sound is fine while all this is going on. You can really tell by keeping the PS3's information screen up at all times, that way you can monitor the bitrate on the fly. When the problem occurs the bitrate will go to single digits..8 to 9 Mbps.


I appreciate you offering to upload a large file as I would like to see more native files from the 900 anyway, but it's really not necessary. I'd rather you concentrate on watching your footage carefully to see if your PS3 has the same problem as mine, and reporting a definitive yes or no.


I have tried every setting that I can think of to eliminate this problem, including turning all enhancements off. Thanks alot...


I will try and get a busy shot from somewhere. Where I live it's not exactly busy. But maybe I can find something that has a lot of movement in it.

If I see the problem i will try and correct it and post what my results are. UPS usually drops off around 5-6pm so it will be late before i find out anything.
 
#82 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham /forum/post/20162944



In markr041's 10 minute 900 clips, I might experience the problem 5 or so times. But once it starts it will not recover unless I pause it on the PS3.

Keep in mind that Mark's 900 clips behave much better on my PS3 than clips I played directly from my own 900 on the same PS3. I'm still scratching my head on that one. My clips begin stuttering almost immediately and Mark's not for about 15 seconds.


Go figure.
 
#83 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham /forum/post/20166954


Thanks Steve..there is no rush here, the PS3 playability issue can wait until you get a chance. Enjoy your cam. Any road intersection in your travels with lots of cars going by should suffice. Zooming in and out a little would most likely help also.


I can do that at rush hour.
I will try and get it done soon.
 
#84 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErichGS /forum/post/20165343


An FYI, I have the same low level beep in my recording that Ken does. So it is not isolated to 1 defective unit.

Bingo, why am I not surprised? I'll tell you right now, this will be a major issue with the 900 since IMO it is unquestionably worse than the fan noise. I'll see if my replacement does it too. If it does, that may be the end of the 900 for me. That beeping is not a tolerable situation IMO. I was never bothered by the fan noise since it was only slightly audible in the quietest of environments, but not so with that beep. Very discouraging.
 
#85 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham /forum/post/20166342


Steve, it's not really about my Slim PS3, but more about your Fat PS3. Any busy footage that makes the bitrate jump to a 33 to 36Mbps rate causes my slim to hiccup. It could be any length really, but it has to have alot of action in the footage to make the cam's bitrate go that high.


Let me explain exactly what I am seeing when the bitrate gets too high for my ps3 to handle. I do not see any stuttering, crashing , or freezing when it happens.


The video looks like it's slowed down (think slow-mo), and has less detail and sharpness. The slowing down is very subtle. I can see some people not being able to detect it. Also, the sound is fine while all this is going on. You can really tell by keeping the PS3's information screen up at all times, that way you can monitor the bitrate on the fly. When the problem occurs the bitrate will go to single digits..8 to 9 Mbps.


I appreciate you offering to upload a large file as I would like to see more native files from the 900 anyway, but it's really not necessary. I'd rather you concentrate on watching your footage carefully to see if your PS3 has the same problem as mine, and reporting a definitive yes or no.


I have tried every setting that I can think of to eliminate this problem, including turning all enhancements off. Thanks alot...

My bitrates climbed to the mid to high 30s by a slow simple pan. Not much action in that. It seems to me the bitrates are higher on the 900 than I recall on my 700.


My stuttering begins almost immediately, but when it does, I've never seen the bitrate drop like you've seen. But I've pretty much given up on using the PS3 for playback with Panny's 1080p footage and am using the Panny BD player instead. It's a far better performer with zero issues and a much nicer menu.


Interestingly, the Sony's 1080p footage exhibited zero issues on the PS3 regardless of length. And then there's Mark's 900 footage that played significantly better than my 900, but not perfect. We do pay a price for 1080p.
 
#86 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham /forum/post/20166795


I have seen no shakiness in the raw videos that I have viewed. I can't think of any reason why you would see this.


You can down convert your footage to a lower bitrate in-camera using the cams menu system. I have heard that it looks almost the same. Why don't you give that a try and see what you think gso.

You see once we begin to do this, it really makes me hope we get a great performing 1080i cam. To me the whole idea of these cams IS their high bitrate and 1080p. Once we begin to compromise and this aspect or that aspect and go through additional steps so that we can obtain compatibility with existing equipment, why even bother? This should be fun, not a chore.


I for one would much rather buy a cheap BD player with an SD slot or USB input and not go through an extra in-camera step that compromises PQ in whatever way (small or otherwise). You'll get perfect playback and a much better menu system to boot.
 
#87 ·
So will one of the new Sony blu ray players like the bdp-s780 play the raw 1080p files from the 900? Can any of the Sony BDP , besides the ps3 which seems like it doesn't handle the files that well, decode the panny's codec? I would love to be able to connect my external hard drive to the player and not have to degrade the quality of the video.
 
#89 ·
Put my clips on my ps3 and they still lag a bit but play my 900 via USB through the ps3 and perfect. I wish I keep the Panasonic br player thinking im going back to best buy and get it again was hoping the ps3 would do it but it's failing. I havnt watched a br movie or played a game yet in the ps3, to justify it now.


I took some video while driving around at work and it took some amazing sharp video over a frozen lake at full zoom and another full zoom of the american flag blowing in the wind. I was very happy with it in the bright sun light the LCD worked great.
 
#90 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross /forum/post/20167148


My stuttering begins almost immediately, but when it does, I've never seen the bitrate drop like you've seen. But I've pretty much given up on using the PS3 for playback with Panny's 1080p footage and am using the Panny BD player instead. It's a far better performer with zero issues and a much nicer menu.


Interestingly, the Sony's 1080p footage exhibited zero issues on the PS3 regardless of length. And then there's Mark's 900 footage that played significantly better than my 900, but not perfect. We do pay a price for 1080p.

So you are seeing actual stuttering then? Maybe your cam is shooting at a higher bitrate than Marks was.
All kidding aside, I'll most likely give up using the PS3 for viewing these high bitrate files. As you say, there are other relatively inexpensive options these days for viewing them. It would be nice if there was some setting I may have missed that would correct it, but I'm not keeping my hopes up. I would just like to be able to use the PS3 for all my multi-media viewing somehow.


The down converting of the files in-cam is just another option for people that have older BD players or media machines that play these files, (but can't play the high bitrate ones) and do not wish to spend money on a new player. They can decide for themselves if the process works for them or not.
 
#91 ·
So after playing around with both the CX700 and the 900 for quite a while today, I was overall more satisfied with the overall image on the CX700 and decided to keep that and send the 900 back. For me the CX700 was easier to get a good image out of, performed much better indoors, wasn't far off the 900 outdoors, felt better in my hand and has a much higher quality fit and finish to it.


As a lot of this is my perception, and somebody with more video experience could probably get more out of the 900 I am sure this will differ from the general opinion here. But for me, the CX700 camera was the better camera of the two. Throw on top of that the beeping (and who knows how many cameras I would have to go through to get one that didn't do it) and it became a no brainer.


On the beeping, my wife couldn't hear it until I cued her on when each beep was starting. Even then, she couldn't hear it everywhere I could. So some might be more sensitive to it then others.
 
#92 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johntomk /forum/post/20167239


So will one of the new Sony blu ray players like the bdp-s780 play the raw 1080p files from the 900? Can any of the Sony BDP , besides the ps3 which seems like it doesn't handle the files that well, decode the panny's codec? I would love to be able to connect my external hard drive to the player and not have to degrade the quality of the video.

The only trouble with using a BD player as a playback device, is archiving. You'd need to keep the footage (edited or not) that you want to watch on an SD card or USB stick. With the PS3, you can keep all your footage on an auxiliary hard drive since the PS3 has no trouble with such drives. That's the biggest issue with using the PS3 as a playback device and a BD player.


Of course you can always transfer whatever you want to watch back to a memory stick for later playback on your HDTV, but that becomes a bit less convenient.


Depending on how much footage you have, it's an issue that you may need to think about.
 
#93 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErichGS /forum/post/20167382


So after playing around with both the CX700 and the 900 for quite a while today, I was overall more satisfied with the overall image on the CX700 and decided to keep that and send the 900 back. For me the CX700 was easier to get a good image out of, performed much better indoors, wasn't far off the 900 outdoors, felt better in my hand and has a much higher quality fit and finish to it.

To be honest, I really wish the 900 had the low light performance of the CX. There was no question that indoors the Sony was significantly better. But I still prefer the outdoor quality of the 900.
 
#94 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross /forum/post/20167466


The only trouble with using a BD player as a playback device, is archiving. You'd need to keep the footage (edited or not) that you want to watch on an SD card or USB stick. With the PS3, you can keep all your footage on an auxiliary hard drive since the PS3 has no trouble with such drives. That's the biggest issue with using the PS3 as a playback device and a BD player.

Why? Burn to a BD-R or even a DVD-recordable and watch.* Archiving on BD is a perfect solution.


*On select players.
 
#95 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham /forum/post/20167315


So you are seeing actual stuttering then? Maybe your cam is shooting at a higher bitrate than Marks was.
All kidding aside, I'll most likely give up using the PS3 for viewing these high bitrate files. As you say, there are other relatively inexpensive options these days for viewing them. It would be nice if there was some setting I may have missed that would correct it, but I'm not keeping my hopes up. I would just like to be able to use the PS3 for all my multi-media viewing somehow.


The down converting of the files in-cam is just another option for people that have older BD players or media machines that play these files, (but can't play the high bitrate ones) and do not wish to spend money on a new player. They can decide for themselves if the process works for them or not.


Ok but what happen if you play a high bitrate file like a 50Mbps file out of say a Canon XF105? That should cause it to completely choke as it's a very fast 1080i file.

The PS3 might have a bit rate limitation. maybe it's the HDD, if it's a 5200 rpm drive that might explain it. The only way to know is to put a 7200 rpm drive and run it through the USB port on the PS3 and see if it chokes. If not it's probably the HDD in the PS3 slowing it down.
 
#96 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann /forum/post/0


Why? Burn to a BD-R or even a DVD-recordable and watch.* Archiving on BD is a perfect solution.


*On select players.

You can do that, but I still think it's easier to simply keep it on an auxiliary drive. Not everyone has a BD burner and using a regular DVD results in a limited capacity issue.
 
#97 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErichGS /forum/post/20167382


So after playing around with both the CX700 and the 900 for quite a while today, I was overall more satisfied with the overall image on the CX700 and decided to keep that and send the 900 back. For me the CX700 was easier to get a good image out of, performed much better indoors, wasn't far off the 900 outdoors, felt better in my hand and has a much higher quality fit and finish to it.


As a lot of this is my perception, and somebody with more video experience could probably get more out of the 900 I am sure this will differ from the general opinion here. But for me, the CX700 camera was the better camera of the two. Throw on top of that the beeping (and who knows how many cameras I would have to go through to get one that didn't do it) and it became a no brainer.


On the beeping, my wife couldn't hear it until I cued her on when each beep was starting. Even then, she couldn't hear it everywhere I could. So some might be more sensitive to it then others.

quote cx700 is the best
 
#98 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross /forum/post/0



The only trouble with using a BD player as a playback device, is archiving. You'd need to keep the footage (edited or not) that you want to watch on an SD card or USB stick. With the PS3, you can keep all your footage on an auxiliary hard drive since the PS3 has no trouble with such drives. That's the biggest issue with using the PS3 as a playback device and a BD player.


Of course you can always transfer whatever you want to watch back to a memory stick for later playback on your HDTV, but that becomes a bit less convenient.


Depending on how much footage you have, it's an issue that you may need to think about.

Are the blu ray players not compatible with a hard drive via USB. Is this because of formatting? Also, would the BDP be able to keep up with the high bit rates if I put a raw mts file from my panny on a USB flash drive? I'm just trying to find the most convenient playback of the original files. I do not want to have to convert the original files. I keep them on an external hard drive and want to play them on my samsung plasma. Unfortunately samsungs mediaplay feature doesn't support the panasonic codec.
 
#100 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johntomk /forum/post/0



Are the blu ray players not compatible with a hard drive via USB. Is this because of formatting? Also, would the BDP be able to keep up with the high bit rates if I put a raw mts file from my panny on a USB flash drive? I'm just trying to find the most convenient playback of the original files. I do not want to have to convert the original files. I keep them on an external hard drive and want to play them on my samsung plasma. Unfortunately samsungs mediaplay feature doesn't support the panasonic codec.

The problem is these BD players don't recognize an external device as a 'drive' the way a PS3 or computer does. But yes, they have no issues with high btrates the way the PS3 does (at least some, if not most PS3 models).
 
#101 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johntomk /forum/post/20167691


Are the blu ray players not compatible with a hard drive via USB. Is this because of formatting? Also, would the BDP be able to keep up with the high bit rates if I put a raw mts file from my panny on a USB flash drive? I'm just trying to find the most convenient playback of the original files. I do not want to have to convert the original files. I keep them on an external hard drive and want to play them on my samsung plasma. Unfortunately samsungs mediaplay feature doesn't support the panasonic codec.


I am hopefully getting the TM900 today and will be able to test out the problem even if I have to attach it to an airplane propeller (Timex joke) to get the bit rate up. If it stutters in the PS3 because the bit rate exceeds a certain amount then it could very well be a PS3 limitation. I sure as heck don't want to hear any beeping in my videos.

Having an external 500GB HDD using a USB 2.0 port seems like the best solution. Since you can't format a HDD dive to FAT32 over 500GB, although partitioning in might work.
 
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