AVS Forum banner

Problems with Pioneer Pro 510HD, 610HD, 710HD, SD532HD, 582HD, 642HD

15K views 91 replies 16 participants last post by  Mr Bob 
#1 ·
If you have had intermittent, infuriatingly hard to pin down problems with these units, please see this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post18948575


All units listed use the same power supply board - PS board for short - and have the same issues. Please disregard the opening pages of this thread, except for the problem descriptions. Avoid the fixes, they will only get you into trouble, more about that later.


At that time we were all shooting in the dark as to what the causes were. Now it has come to light that the entire PS board on these units - and many in the following year's models as well - was badly soldered by Pioneer, causing cold solder joints that would crop up years later, after countless cycles of heat and cold due to power up/down commands and countless regular viewing periods.


If you are noticing any intermittencies - blue flashes, fluctuating brightness, lack of picture even tho the unit's green indicator LED is still up and showing ops without any shutdowns - you're up and your board has finally failed. It will not get any better on its own, any more than needed dental work would.


If so, STOP USING YOUR SET. You must not allow it up to normal operating temp again, not even once, until this situation has been completely resolved.


Resoldering the board PROPERLY is the only way around these problems. Newbies opt out NOW. If you're a repair, design or assembly professional who does soldering every day and you are highly experienced, have at it, you can fix it yourself. If not, PLEASE don't make this your initial entry into the world of soldering! Far too much is riding on it, it has to be done right the first time, every time, before firing the unit up again. Nothing can be left to chance, and this is an impossibility if you are inexperienced and new to this sort of thing.


If any solder bridges are allowed past the inspection process, or any of the critical solder joints are left unresoldered - and 99% of them on that board need to be resoldered for permanent repair - I can't promise you exactly what would happen, only that it would not be good. Doing a partial job of the resoldering process - resoldering only those joints that are presently bad - only exacerbates the situation. Your set will work again, seemingly properly, but will go out again after awhile. Doing only a partial job - like most local service techs will do, spending only a modicum of time on it, the smallest amount of time they feel is absolutely required - makes your set all that more vulnerable to damage later as new solder joints go thru more continued heat/cold cycles, weaken and then go out themselves. The initial ones that go out and give you the warning signs are almost always not the highly damaging ones. Curing just those and continuing to use your set is a sure recipe for disaster, it's like playing Russian Roulette with your set.


If you are qualified to do this yourself, be my guest. This is a DIYer site first and foremost.


If you're not, please feel free to contact me and I'll get your set going again for you, even if you live far away. Boards are being sent to me every day with this problem, and I take care of them and send them back. Seems when you spend $5K, 6K, 7K - and I have heard of as much as $12K paid for the 710 back then - on your Pioneer Elite CRT set, as owner you want it to stay alive from then on, and these sets are only midway along in their life cycles. They were built to last. You paid for that, you deserve to have it.


And the HD they were designed to produce is to die for, properly dialed in. It is legendary and timeless. There is no reason to buy new, if you own a Pioneer Elite CRT. You just need to honor it with the proper attention.


I am here for that. I have extensive experience in this problem - I am all over that thread, which has been going on for more than 6 years now, since 2004. Read the last few pages of it. If you want this thing done right, please contact me directly, no pm's please. I have so far saved literally TONS of these elegant and top-performing HD Elites, which are still in their prime. Many screenshots of finished products are in that thread, ready to be viewed.


Please help me save your set!



Mr Bob
 
See less See more
#27 ·
to get to the service menu you need to open the fold down door on the front of the tv in the middle you will see a little hole all you do is stick a pin in it and that will open the service menu for you. I found the service manual for my 710 on ebay i think it was around $6-$7 good luck
 
#28 ·
Your set, if it's a x10 series set, needs more than just a tweak for that, and going into the service menu without knowing exactly what you're doing ahead of time is not advised, from this camp. You can cause yourself and your set more harm than good in seconds, doing that. Please don't go in without the proper guidance, and that is not necessarily contained in the service manual. Not a bad idea to have, tho, and you can usually score one at www.servicemanuals.net , affordable and instantly downloadable.


On that series, not only do the optics need a serious cleaning, but the energy going to the CRTs needs to be goosed up and then rebalanced precisely, to preserve the grayscale. That's the only way to really properly get back to the User menu providing the proper shadow detail when all zeros.


If your Black Level in User is not active on component, possibly you have settings in there that are not set right.


b
 
#29 ·
I personally would not do any cleaning of the unit or playing in the service menu i would much rather pay someone that KNOWS what they are doing than make that one mistake and cost you more than what it would cost to get it done properly. The manual at servicemanuals only has 1 of the 4 manuals for the 710HD which is ARP 3086 it is missing ARP 3065,ARP 3041, ARP 3051. I have all 4 service manuals they do cover more than just the 710HD models. Some also cover the 610HD,510HD and the SD582HD5 and the SD532HD5 models
 
#30 ·
Yes, Bob. I've noticed that... the grayscale seems to be OK, but in my opinion it could use some improvement. Because of the room arrangement, I feel the need to leave the protective plexi-glass panel in place to avoid damage to the lenticular screen. This causes some reflections during daylight hours, even with the blinds down on the windows. I wonder if there is a way to adjust color temperature other than the standard presets. What do you think?


-A
 
#31 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sideswiper /forum/post/20215002


I personally would not do any cleaning of the unit or playing in the service menu i would much rather pay someone that KNOWS what they are doing than make that one mistake and cost you more than what it would cost to get it done properly. The manual at servicemanuals only has 1 of the 4 manuals for the 710HD which is ARP 3086 it is missing ARP 3065,ARP 3041, ARP 3051. I have all 4 service manuals they do cover more than just the 710HD models. Some also cover the 610HD,510HD and the SD582HD5 and the SD532HD5 models

I agree you should not do anything that would endanger such a sophisticated set.


OTOH, I have been successfully phone coaching owners on how to get their optics back to factory fresh sizzlingly crystal clear condition again for years now. My methods have 100% efficacy and go 100% over the phone with a diligent listener on the other end.


Same with other facets of my calibration process. Believe me it is head and shoulders better than even thinking about trying to find someone local qualified to do it. They never are, unless you happen to live close by to me or some other calibrator who knows THESE FACETS of CRT tech. Which eliminates about 99% of all ISF agents and 99.99999% of all local repair service techs.


Just contact me off board and we'll set something up.


b
 
#32 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProAudio5 /forum/post/20215441


Yes, Bob. I've noticed that... the grayscale seems to be OK, but in my opinion it could use some improvement. Because of the room arrangement, I feel the need to leave the protective plexi-glass panel in place to avoid damage to the lenticular screen. This causes some reflections during daylight hours, even with the blinds down on the windows. I wonder if there is a way to adjust color temperature other than the standard presets. What do you think?


-A

I can phone coach you in several different ways of improving the grayscale. But in the end to get it dialed in completely, you'll need referencing equipment and lots and lots of learning curve mastery.


That said, Splicer 010 will testify to how close we got his over the phone when he screwed his up once, due to accidental misdialing of the trimpots on his end. That was a couple of years ago and he has not had to have any attention to it since.


b
 
#33 ·
I've re- worked the Power Supply board (again) and finally got it working perfectly, Seems I missed 1 or 2 cracked solder joints. I have cleaned the optics (please don't cringe Mr. Bob, I worked in the optics industry for 14 years) I've yet to reinstall the mirror but it functions perfectly. With a professional re- calibration which is to be expected, it should be as new.


Only problem is, after all the work invested, I have come to the conclusion that it is too big, heavy, and bulky - and I really do not want it in this room any longer. Please contact me off board if you are local and interested.


-A
 
#34 ·
Hope somebody jumps on this for you. Too bad it took so long to get going -




b
 
#35 ·
Bob, if you're in the area and have a vehicle capable of carrying it, it's yours for a song. It pains me to say it but I just want it out of here. As soon as possible. I'll be moving soon and I can't take it with me anyway. As it stands now the back is off and the mirror is wrapped in a flannel sheet. The guns have a flannel pillow case over them and the set is in my garage taking up a lot of space as it always did. If you still have my phone # give me a call. If no takers, sadly, it's going to meet the landfill (sigh).


-A
 
#36 ·
Allen, I thank you for the offer, but dude, I'm in California! That's why I was saying I hope somebody close by snags it.


There have been copious prospective owners trying for one of these beautiful sets, at the 2 threads I write on every day. This thread is more an afterthought compared to them, as they have been going on the AVS for years.


One is in this thread, first post. Here's a list, which includes that -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...402397&page=89

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=284

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...010146&page=35



b
 
#38 ·
This was just posted over at the master repair thread for these sets. I thought I would share it here as well -


b




Forgive me, we've been very busy here so I just looked it over and the last few pages really don't cover what you need to know. You'll probably have to go back as many as 10 pages, maybe more. Just don't follow the advice in the early pages where various individual specific points are mentioned as needing attention. If they are part of the active, directly connected circuitry and have not been resoldered yet by now, they all do. Each and every affected solder joint in there needs to be resoldered, regardless of how many and how small they are. It is a long and tedious process, but what else is new?


The entire Power Supply board was compromised at the factory with solder that was too thin and those joints are giving up the ghost all over the boards now. As such with very few exceptions the entire PS board needs to be resoldered. Doing so will completely restore it and it will last indefinitely, just like the 100% performance all the other boards in there have been delivering all along. There are lots of boards in there, all of which have been performing at 100% all along and will continue to do so indefinitely.


I guarantee it for the PS board, as long as I am the one on the case for you. If anything like that happens again on your PS board, no matter how many years later, I will correct that condition again on your PS board for you, no charge. I can offer that lifetime guaranty because I know that doing so will leave me next to no work at all to do in the future on this issue, as long as I was the one who resoldered your PS board in the first place. Yes, I have resoldered that many PS boards in the last few years, whose owners are even as we speak enjoying their sets every day now, effortlessly. As I have said many times over the years, these are hardy, permanent sets. CRT - not just Pioneer, but all brands - was designed and produced in an era where things were built to last, unlike the fragile and highly disposable sets being sold new today.



BTW, I was just sent something printed on Just Answer.


Contrary to the advice of another very seasoned and experienced repair tech on Just Answer, no the PS board cannot be trusted if all you resolder are the currently affected joints, in fact doing so actually puts your set in more danger than it was in before, because it exposes your set to the much more damaging joints that go bad later. If it's in its early stages, those intermittents you are experiencing are valid warning signs because they don't usually damage your set, they just let you know something's wrong and that something definitely needs to be done before you keep using your set and exposing it to unspecified but still very real dangers. The ones that start to go bad later, since you didn't heed the warning signs or only resolder what's bad now, are the damaging ones and can take your set down hard.

So heed the warning signs! If your set is currently exhibiting the symptoms of cold solder joints on the power supply board - blue flashes, fluctuating brightness, lack of picture or sound while running or even actual shut down - STOP USING IT! Unplug it and don't allow it back up to normal operating temperature - EVEN ONCE - unless and until repaired PROPERLY. Cold solder joints start to let go and do their damage ONLY ONCE YOUR SET HAS HEATED UP thru normal operations. So don't keep your set on for more than 40 seconds from dead cold - for testing only - during the duration of this very dangerous set of circumstances, which has the power to become a potentially catastrophic event and even total your set if your finances cannot withstand the onslaught of the more serious of repair bills. Nipping it in the bud keeps your repair bills low and entirely affordable, bordering on negigible compared to what you originally paid for your set. In fact the decision to do what's necessary when in the early stages is an incredible no-brainer, all things considered.


And no, the deflection board does not need attention unless damaged by the PS board's cold solder joints. It does not develop cold solder joints on its own in the course of normal operation like the PS board does. Neither does the convergence board. None of those boards in there do, except the PS board. If your set is experiencing those dangerous intermittents, leave all the other boards alone! Concentrate ONLY on the Power Supply board, the one at the end of your set's wall power cord, the one that plugs into your wall outlet. The less messed with in there the better, esp. if you are not a trained and experienced service technician.


This is a cardinal rule for service repair technicians who do this kind of work every day, and should be heeded by everyone: always leave alone whatever can be left alone! Any time you dive into circuitry you risk opening a can of worms and suddenly having a lot more on your plate than originally intended.


So focus ONLY on the PS board in this case.




b
 
#39 ·
Alright, Mr. Bob. Now I'm really confused. I resoldered the board again last week and just a few minutes ago, reinstalled it. I had my wife attempt to power it on, watching carefully for any smoke or zorches. There were none. When she turned on the main power, she got the red standby light, but the unit will not power up.


The mirror has been removed and is wrapped securely in soft cloth, but what I do notice is that there is something that appears to be a micro switch between the guns mounted on a small metal frame. Could this be why the set won't accept the power up command? Any advice you can offer will be once again appreciated.


-A
 
#40 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProAudio5 /forum/post/20384727


Alright, Mr. Bob. Now I'm really confused. I resoldered the board again last week and just a few minutes ago, reinstalled it. I had my wife attempt to power it on, watching carefully for any smoke or zorches. There were none. When she turned on the main power, she got the red standby light, but the unit will not power up.


The mirror has been removed and is wrapped securely in soft cloth, but what I do notice is that there is something that appears to be a micro switch between the guns mounted on a small metal frame. Could this be why the set won't accept the power up command? Any advice you can offer will be once again appreciated.


-A

The small device between the CRT lenses is actually the remote receiver. Since it uses the mirror, it is possible that is your problem if you are trying to start the set with the remote power button only. Try starting the set from the

front panel...or put the mirror back in!


Joe
 
#41 ·
Right, the mirror bounces the IR from your remote onto that sensor. Without the mirror it will just sit there.


b
 
#42 ·
Ok guys, that makes perfect sense. Except for the fact that I had my wife use the front panel controls, and not the remote. The idea was to fire it up without the mirror and let it run for a while and wait for any failures if any. Instead I got no function AND no failures heheh.
 
#43 ·
Well, since you seem to be still interested in having the unit work, you could consider sending me the board and going with the original plan you embarked upon when you called me a few weeks ago about it -


Since you have been into it several times now, I have no idea what to expect when and if it gets here. If you had sent it in when the symptoms were first present, and without your having been into it at all doing your own soldering, I could be much more predictive of its present condition and of what to expect when it would get here.




But I am willing to look at it even so, provided you are willing to work with me on it and stop trying to do it yourself, which evidently has not worked for you. Just contact me directly - no pm's please - and we'll work something out -



b
 
#44 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProAudio5 /forum/post/0


Ok guys, that makes perfect sense. Except for the fact that I had my wife use the front panel controls, and not the remote. The idea was to fire it up without the mirror and let it run for a while and wait for any failures if any. Instead I got no function AND no failures heheh.

So, I assume this is the case, but I will ask anyway... when you use the remote, the main power and standby functions are combined into a single button... When yoy use the front panel, pressing in the main power only puts the TV back in its previous operating state...which for you was safe standby. You then have to hit the on/standby button to the right of the main power button to come out of standby.


You can also use the standby button to override safe mode by holding it... but if yo do this, you risk damaging something permanently if the power supply board is bad. I know this from experience.


Joe
 
#45 ·
Actually Joe, the main power button on the left of the front panel is the master, the Power On button the slave. As is the remote's version, both of which are temp on buttons. Without the master Power button punched in, neither the remote's nor the panels' temp power-on button will make anything turn on.


b
 
#46 ·
Mr. Bob is correct, and I knew that this could be done to over-ride the safety, but somehow I thought it would not be a good idea to do so.


@Mr. Bob: I'm in deep financial trouble, and although I would LOVE to employ your services, I can't afford to employ you to fix the set right now. As we spoke on the phone I told you I would compensate you for your consultation, and I meant it. However, now is simply not a good time as I simply do not have the money.



-Alan
 
#47 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob /forum/post/20397822


Actually Joe, the main power button on the left of the front panel is the master, the Power On button the slave. As is the remote's version, both of which are temp on buttons. Without the master Power button punched in, neither the remote's nor the panels' temp power-on button will make anything turn on.


b

Yes. Yes, of course. Thanks. This is what happens whenh I grab my ipad and try to be helpful without looking at the set. I have two Elites of my own that I fixed...obviously I know how to turn them on.


I guess what I am getting at, Alan, is it is time to make a decision. Either go for it and hope for the best...or stop bothering Bob. He can't help you much more without spending serious time == $$...


The override for me resulted in scorching the phosphorus face of one of my CRTs. But I then knew exactly what was wrong. For the first set, I wound up buying two boards. I the got a second set, and fixed it with spare parts I bought from another poster on here. That first set was an expensive learning curve. I made up for it on the second set...and by getting paid for fixing 3 other local Elite sets with the PS problem...so it worked out for me.


Bob can save you a lot of time and trouble. If you cant afford to fix it, it might be less aggravation to just let it go. Just honest advice from a stranger. Good luck.


Joe
 
#48 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProAudio5 /forum/post/20398649


Mr. Bob is correct, and I knew that this could be done to over-ride the safety, but somehow I thought it would not be a good idea to do so.

I didn't know this, and am glad to now know. But I agree, it is not a wise move to disable a protection system. You only do that as a last resort, and with 100% watchfulness as to what happens next, so you can take instant action. If Joe had done so, he might have been able to save that CRT whose phosphors got quickly scorched upon turn-on due to lack of sweep. I have done the same myself on a Mit in a different context - no protection was involved, just my own inattention - and know that things can happen so quickly that had we taken action 3 seconds sooner, disaster coulda been averted.

Quote:
@Mr. Bob: I'm in deep financial trouble, and although I would LOVE to employ your services, I can't afford to employ you to fix the set right now. As we spoke on the phone I told you I would compensate you for your consultation, and I meant it. However, now is simply not a good time as I simply do not have the money.



-Alan

I understand, Alan, thank you for reminding me of your promise and that you intend to keep it at such time as you can. Keep in touch and don't give up hope on your set -


b
 
#50 ·
Appreciate that -




b
 
#51 ·
OK, I'm back, this time with sad news that may benefit other Pro-Series owners who wish to maintain their RPTV sets.


Unfortunately we had a rather serious boiler issue in the garage where I have been storing my PRO-610HD. While working on the boiler I tripped and fell on the mirror, cracking the bottom left corner. The mirror has been disposed of.


So, this cinches it for my set, however the guns and boards are available. I will remove and ship. I would rather see these parts go to good use than send them to the landfill. Please PM or email me at proaudio 5 at hotmail dot com if interested.


Alan
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top