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SE WI Tower speaker GTG

156K views 2K replies 128 participants last post by  lbrown105 
#1 ·
Edit: update as of 2/15/12. This thread is an ongoing one with various GTG's which have come and past. The next one is scheduled for 4/14/12. Starting at post #423 is the beginning discussions of the next upcoming GTG. Here is some basic info for those who are starting on page 1.......


Okay, so here is what I have for the probable attendees thus far:


Dennis Murphy: Philharmonic 2's - Cannot attend now, but will send speakers

Jim Salk: Salk SoundScape 10's - Confirmed

TJHUB (Duh, it's his house ): Salk HT2-TL w/LCY tweeter - Confirmed

Merrymaid520: Ascend Tower's with RAAL tweeter - Confirmed

Mrs. Merrymaid - Confirmed

krzywica: PSB Image T55's - Confirmed

Nuance (me): Salk SongTower RT's w/LCY tweeter - Confirmed

Mrs. Nuance - Confirmed

Warpdrv (50/50)

ALMFamily - Confirmed and is bringing a case of Coke

dlbeck

Randy Bessinger - Confirmed

Dogearz - Confirmed

Shadow Hunter - Confirmed

John (Terry's friend) - Confirmed

Mark (Terry's friend) - Confirmed

oppman99 (from Audioholics forum)

jb5200 - Confirmed

pennynike1

TurboFC3S (50/50): Vapor Audio Cirrus'

Pet Motel

PAD (Big Red Machine) - Confirmed

Archaea - Confirmed

Gregg (Terry's friend) - Confirmed

Kevin (Terry's friend) - Confirmed

Jeff and Kathy - Confirmed

Gear being used at TJHUB's:

My gear list:


Source: Logitech Touch

My Touch is running the SoundCheck TT3.0 mods with the volume lock activated (very important, and a long story). The Touch is fed via wired ethernet cable from a server computer in my basement. The server computer is set to do all of the FLAC decoding and streams PCM to the Touch. The Touch is also powered by a DIY power supply that almost made me flip out the first time I heard it. The performance is FAR better than just using an off the shelf linear power supply.


DAC: Eastern Electric MiniMax Plus

The DAC is completely stock at the moment, and will likely stay that way. I am using a Psvane 12AU7 tube though. I have some opamps I've rolled, but I'm very happy with the sound as-is.


Preamp: Rogue Audio Perseus

The preamp is 100% stock including the tubes. Since its arrival in my setup, I have been completely satisfied with it's performance. It basically just disappears completely with the tubes providing a more 3D and layered sound stage. For the record, there is no traditional warm or tube sound allowed in my house. I look to get the sound as realistic as possible.


Amps: Odyssey Audio Stratos Extreme SE Monoblocks

These monos have the "Extreme SE" upgrades which are dual transformers, and upgraded wire/components inside. It is my understanding that they output a little over 200wrms into 8ohms, and approximately 360wrms into 4ohms.


Cables: Don't kid yourself, they matter!

For those that care... I have a Black Cat SilverStar 75 digital coax between the Touch and my DAC. I am in the process of trying to decide between the Sweet Spot Reveal IC's and Morrow MA2 IC's. Both sound fantastic, but offer slightly different presentations. Either sets sound absolutely wonderful, so I'm having a difficult time picking a "winner." I'm running a DIY pair of PCOCC speaker cables that I think are the best I've heard. I purchased them pre-made with a loose Litz braid for $60.00 shipped.


Of course my speakers are Salk HT2-TL's with the older LCY ribbon tweeter. I don't think I've found their limits yet, but I don't think I'll be trying to anymore either. I've loved them since day one, and I've heard no other speaker I'd rather have. I do have an interest in possibly getting some Magnepan's in the future.


I do run a pair of EQ'd DIY 18" TC Sounds LMS-Ultra's for both music and HT. I hope to be able to show their performance for music at the GTG, time permitting. I think they are absolutely spectacular, and I can't live without them for my room. Of course they will likely be out of the room for the GTG to allow every speaker to display its full performance. I'm not worried about my HT2-TL's as they easily shake the floor with their bass output.


Update post 4/14 GTG

Here is the original Track List, and I added the only ones I could recall:


"Boxenkiller" by Cyrill Lutzelschwab and Martin Hess

"Ntyilo Ntyilo (The Love Bird)" by Hugh Masakela

"Walking On The Moon" by The Yuri Honing Trio

"Chant" by Fourplay

"Aaron Copland - Fanfare For The Common Man" by Erich Kunzel: Cincinnati Pops Orchestra

"Jazz Variants" by The O-Zone Percussion Group

"Red Rain (Instrumental)" by Peter Gabriel

"Dream On" by Kelly Sweet

"Just Like Love" by Steve Strauss

"Rubina" by Joe Satriani

"Into The Void" by Nine Inch Nails

"Hells Bells" by AC/DC

There was also a song we referred to as "Boom Boom" by Black Eyed Peas to test bass capability;


Philharmonic 2: $2000/pair

Salk SongTower RT: $2700.pair

Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower with RAAL ribbon: $2700/pair

JTR Tripple 12-LP: $3000 (per pair?)

Salk Veracity HT2-TL: $4500/pair

Seaton Catalyst: $7000/pair

Salk SoundScape 10: $12,000/pair


reviews listed by link:


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1384
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1208
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1160
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1121
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=994
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=945
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=946
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=916
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=894
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=843





The text below is from PREVIOUS GTG's, please do not confuse it with the information from above which is the upcoming 4/14/12 GTG.


Original post........Hey folks,

The WI audio boys are at it again. We plan to hold another little GTG auditioning my new Ascend Tower speakers among maybe some other speakers at my place in East Troy, WI.


We are shooting for Saturday April 2nd around 12:00.


Please let me know if you might be interested. I prefer to keep it geared towards speakers only so we do not have to worry about switching around cables, wires, amps, preamps, etc.


I will be running the speakers off my Parasound 2100 preamp and proceed Amp 3 using a squeezebox Touch as the source.


Please PM if you are interested in attending.


Attendees so far:

Nuance

TJHUB

Dogearz




I will update this thread on what speakers will be here as the date gets closer. (Im trying to talk either nuance or TJHUB to bring their Salks along)...Hint....hint


Speakers thus far:

Paradigm Sig 2's

Ascend Towers

Salk HT2-TL's



Thanks,

Brandon
 
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#231 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB /forum/post/20355954


I'd bet anything that I could tell the difference within 30 seconds between the dome and ribbons. Any day, any time.


Someone test me...


And I'll say it again...

Quote:
golden sonic bat ears

I'm curious if your speaker cables talk to you in the middle of the night, and what does your wife say when you go out to the living room to have conversations with them....
 
#232 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv /forum/post/20355983


I'm curious if your speaker cables talk to you in the middle of the night, and what does your wife say when you go out to the living room to have conversations with them....

She says nothing...she understands.
But I don't go out to the living room, the cables come to bed with me every night.
 
#234 ·
LOL! You guys are hilarious!

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanish68 /forum/post/20355214


Great job guys! I'm looking to upgrade my original Sierra-1 speakers with something a bit more dynamic and the Songtowers are the speakers that I'm looking at. Any reason why the speakers were not tested without the subs? Not enough time to try that set-up?

Terry has a huge bass peak in his room in the mid 30's, and due to this we thought it might skew the bass response of the speakers in attendance. The easy way around this was to created a static lower end (keeping it the same), thus crossing over to the subwoofers (which are the best subs I've heard besides warpdrv's setup, which happen to use the exact same drivers). We didn't want that peak to come into play and give false impressions. Besides, every one of us that attended the GTG cross over to a subwoofer for music, so it just seemed like the right thing to do. When we get together again this summer I promise we'll try running full range and give impressions on the lower end of each speaker.
 
#235 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by spanish68 /forum/post/20355214


Great job guys! I'm looking to upgrade my original Sierra-1 speakers with something a bit more dynamic and the Songtowers are the speakers that I'm looking at. Any reason why the speakers were not tested without the subs? Not enough time to try that set-up?

I asked the same question. The answer is that the room they were in had a gynormous bass peak that could be equalized out with the sub. They were afraid the untamed bass would throw off reactions to the speakers in other areas.
 
#236 ·
Did you guys listen to any music with female singers? Some of the female singers that have a powerful voice and can sing in the upper registers is where the unpleasantness shows up...at least for me. My speakers seems aggressive/forward on that kind of music and that is what I'm looking to get away from with my next set of speakers.
 
#237 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller8b /forum/post/20357778


Did you guys listen to any music with female singers? Some of the female singers that have a powerful voice and can sing in the upper registers is where the unpleasantness shows up...at least for me. My speakers seems aggressive/forward on that kind of music and that is what I'm looking to get away from with my next set of speakers.

I'm curious about this too. I'm sensitive to the higher registers as well. I'm sure both would do fairly well as neither are conventional metal domes. I think it's the long CSD of certain tweeters that causes this.
 
#238 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller8b /forum/post/20357778


Did you guys listen to any music with female singers? Some of the female singers that have a powerful voice and can sing in the upper registers is where the unpleasantness shows up...at least for me. My speakers seems aggressive/forward on that kind of music and that is what I'm looking to get away from with my next set of speakers.

Yes, one track in particular. Kelly Sweet, Dream on, awesome vocals and a great job on the song in general!
 
#239 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller8b /forum/post/20357778


Did you guys listen to any music with female singers? Some of the female singers that have a powerful voice and can sing in the upper registers is where the unpleasantness shows up...at least for me. My speakers seems aggressive/forward on that kind of music and that is what I'm looking to get away from with my next set of speakers.

We did. Kelly Sweet as stated. I find my Salk's to be very good top to bottom. I'd say you owe it to yourself to audition a pair if you are concerned with the "unpleasantness" you are describing.


There is nothing laid back or reserved about my Salk's. They are clean with incredible detail, yet never seem to throw anything in your face or sound harsh. I can listen to any type of music and be very pleased. This is what makes them great, but their transparency makes them special.
 
#240 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB /forum/post/20358190


There is nothing laid back or reserved about my Salk's. They are clean with incredible detail, yet never seem to throw anything in your face or sound harsh. I can listen to any type of music and be very pleased. This is what makes them great, but their transparency makes them special.


Well said Terry....


I was really noticing how transparent they were....
 
#241 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB /forum/post/20358190


We did. Kelly Sweet as stated. I find my Salk's to be very good top to bottom. I'd say you owe it to yourself to audition a pair if you are concerned with the "unpleasantness" you are describing.


There is nothing laid back or reserved about my Salk's. They are clean with incredible detail, yet never seem to throw anything in your face or sound harsh. I can listen to any type of music and be very pleased. This is what makes them great, but their transparency makes them special.

Now is that due to the HT2-TL or your incredible setup that you specifically pieced together to achieve just this quality? How did the other speakers fare with this song?
 
#242 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 /forum/post/20358369


Now is that due to the HT2-TL or your incredible setup that you specifically pieced together to achieve just this quality? How did the other speakers fare with this song?

Again, I do not believe I tweaked my setup to suit my Salk speakers. What I've found and learned over the last two years is that the Salk's can show you everything your front end electronics are giving you. Every time I "upgraded" something, the sound changed. This happens even down to interconnects and speaker wires. But none of these things really came down to tone as I've experienced in the past. Now it's clarity and definition.


I can't speak for anyone else at the GTG, but I did not detect any tonality issues from any of the other speakers. It really came down to clarity of presentation; at least it did for me. I personally don't think any of the speakers suffered from my front end electronics.


So here is my honest take on what I heard ranked in order of preference:


1. Salk HT2-TL: The overall presentation was very accurate. The entire audio spectrum sounded great from the subs up. The midrange was very transparent and the treble displayed great detail and reality with no detectable anomalies.


2. Salk SongTower RT: A very close second displaying nearly the same attributes of the HT2-TL. There did seem to be a little less midrange transparency, but it seemed to be on the lower end. I may have been one of the only ones to detect it as I'm the only one familiar with my HT2-TL's. I think Nuance heard something there too, but I'm not certain. The treble sounded identical and the Salk sound was easily identifiable. Absolutely fantastic speakers for the money.


Tie for 3rd. Ascend Towers: To be honest, I think this could be a fantastic speaker if Dave Fabrikant would ditch the tweeter. I could never live with it. For me, it's not a preference thing, it's just wrong. There were tracks that I easily detected a distortion of sorts. It sounds to me like the tweeter is crossed too low and caused the tweeter to break up. I heard obvious false tones in "Rubina" by Joe Satriani and "Dream On" by Kelly Sweet. It takes the speaker a long way from transparent and realist sounding. I have a hard time listening to the rest of the speaker because of this. The tweeter also lacks extension causing the speaker to lose any bit of airy sound. The speaker can throw some tones right in your face. I'll also mention that the bass is impressive when running full-range as we did at the last GTG, but it seemed stressed or compressed in some way. It was as if the speaker was playing at it's limits...maybe it was... I personally think Ascend is close to making a truely fantastic speaker, Dave just has to find a better tweeter.


Tie for 3rd. Paradigm Signature 8: The Sig's use one of the best sounding dome tweeters I've heard. I've heard these speakers at extreme volume levels, and it amazes me how well they maintain their composure. This is something the Salk's will never do. The weakness of this speaker was the midrange. There was a lack of transparency. I could hear a midrange speaker was playing. The tonality was different with these speakers and that was mostly due to the midrange.


There are always compromises taken with speakers. It is my opinion that the Salk's just seem to get most things right.


It's very hard for me to believe it's a preference thing between the speakers we heard. To me, it's what sounds more realistic in presentation and has the least amount of anomalies. In that case, the Salk's are the easy winners.


As always...YMMV.
 
#243 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB /forum/post/20358638



It's very hard for me to believe it's a preference thing between the speakers we heard. To me, it's what sounds more realistic in presentation and has the least amount of anomalies. In that case, the Salk's are the easy winners.


As always...YMMV.

^ This.


The track listing of the GTG was as follows (thank you, Terry):


"Rubina" Joe Satriani

"Chant" Fourplay

"Go Insane" Fleetwood Mac

"Seven Wonders" Fleetwood Mac

"Family Man" Fleetwood Mac

"Nomali" Huge Masakela

"Ntyilo Ntyilo (The Love Bird)" Huge Masakela

"Stimela (The Coal Train)" Huge Masakela

"Safari" Keiko Matsui

"Dream On" Kelly Sweet

"Shibumi Dunes" Mino Cinelu

"Oncoming Horizons" Mino Cinelu


Terry, would you mind posting up the pics that were taken?
 
#248 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB /forum/post/20359081


If you are saying you don't agree, I'm not surprised.

Nice jab
, but not an agreement or disagreement.


I can't really comment on what you heard. I wasn't there.


I do disagree on one thing, but that is on tweaking the front end, and the system as a whole....and that is a whole 'nother discussion/thread.


edit: You left out the picture of the HT2-TL's.
 
#249 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang /forum/post/20359149


Nice jab
, but not an agreement or disagreement.


I can't really comment on what you heard. I wasn't there.


I do disagree on one thing, but that is on tweaking the front end, and the system as a whole....but that is a whole 'nother discussion/thread.

It was only meant to equal yours.
And seriously just in fun.



I would like to have that discussion with you behind the scenes. I'd love to know what's on your mind. PM'd you.
 
#251 ·
Terry / Nuance,

Not looking to cause any hard feelings here (Im a lover not a fighter...he he) but could the upper mids and highs of the salks be somewhat dull or uninvolving in comparison to the more agressive Ascend Tweeter? I dont feel its lacking detail but rather differs in the presentation? If we use live music (not recorded, but a band or artist in person) as a reference, to my ears, the ascends are more dynamic in their presentation of this range. Just thinking out loud here.


Not trying to create a peeing match, just constructive conversation
 
#252 ·
Wow, thanks for the extremely detailed response as usual TJHUB. Man, I really wish I could listen to some Salk Sound speakers. I've never heard a ribbon tweeter and am used to hearing conventional aluminum dome tweeters (which I don't prefer). When I listened to the Sierra-1 NrTs at Curtis's house, the highs sounded a bit forward, but that could have just been the mids being a bit recessed, which should have been fixed with the Towers.


You clearly prefer the Be tweeters to the NrT tweeters on the Ascends. From your listening experience is this typical? I tend to prefer silk domes to aluminum domes and haven't had enough listening experience with Be domes to make an accurate assessment. In my opinion tweeter breakup is one of the harshest sounding elements of distortion so I completely understand what you mean by having a hard time listening to rest of the speaker.


One more question. Your HT2-TL uses the LCY ribbon, correct? Have you heard the newer versions with the RAAL? Also, I wonder how the Salk RAALs compare with the larger RAAL and the Fountek NeoCd3 available from Madisound. I'm really curious as to how the Songtowers compare with the DIY Statements that also use ribbon tweeters. I tried looking for Statement owners in WI over on HTGuide, but nobody replied.
 
#253 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang /forum/post/20359196


I do have a couple of questions:


TJ, have you heard a SongTower with the dome tweeter? How did you feel about it?

Unfortunately I have not heard a SongTower with the dome tweeter. To be honest, I have yet to hear a soft dome tweeter I like. I'm a big fan of ribbon tweeters, and I like the LCY in my Salk's. I hope to hear the standard dome version one day.


What get me most about soft domes is that they lack a metallic quality of instruments. Cymbals tend to come off as digitally generated tones, flute tends to lose the presentation of a metal body instrument, and piano lacks the hammer/string relationship and again seems like a false or generated tone. I also seem to hear anomalies, or incorrect tones from them. They lack air and an overall realism for me. I could go on, but I think you get the point.


I used to prefer metal domes, but ribbons ruined that for me. The Be tweeter in the Sig's is very tolerable for me, but I still prefer the ribbons in my Salk's.
 
#254 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 /forum/post/20359230


Terry / Nuance,

Not looking to cause any hard feelings here (Im a lover not a fighter...he he) but could the upper mids and highs of the salks be somewhat dull or uninvolving in comparison to the more agressive Ascend Tweeter? I dont feel its lacking detail but rather differs in the presentation? If we use live music (not recorded, but a band or artist in person) as a reference, to my ears, the ascends are more dynamic in their presentation of this range. Just thinking out loud here.


Not trying to create a peeing match, just constructive conversation

I was actually wondering the exact same thing. I think the difference is that the Salks are smoother (think silky), while the Ascends are more dynamic and in your face. Of course, neither of these qualities affect transparency, but I can certainly understand how someone who's more sensitive to the upper registers will prefer the Salks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB /forum/post/20359298


Unfortunately I have not heard a SongTower with the dome tweeter. To be honest, I have yet to hear a soft dome tweeter I like. I'm a big fan of ribbon tweeters, and I like the LCY in my Salk's. I hope to hear the standard dome version one day.


What get me most about soft domes is that they lack a metallic quality of instruments. Cymbals tend to come off as digitally generated tones, flute tends to lose the presentation of a metal body instrument, and piano lacks the hammer/string relationship and again seems like a false or generated tone. I also seem to hear anomalies, or incorrect tones from them. They lack air and an overall realism for me. I could go on, but I think you get the point.


I used to prefer metal domes, but ribbons ruined that for me. The Be tweeter in the Sig's is very tolerable for me, but I still prefer the ribbons in my Salk's.

That's interesting. I'd think that someone who's sensitive to the highs would prefer soft domes. Metallic dome tweeter breakup is a very common problem that exists in all but the best tweeters. These cause severe distortion issues, that I'd imagine you would clearly dislike, it seems that may not be the case. Be dome tweeters are supposed to remedy this problem with metal domes, but as I mentioned, I don't have enough experience to make an accurate judgment although the Usher "Tiny Dancers" seem to receive rave reviews.
 
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