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SE WI Tower speaker GTG

156K views 2K replies 128 participants last post by  lbrown105 
#1 ·
Edit: update as of 2/15/12. This thread is an ongoing one with various GTG's which have come and past. The next one is scheduled for 4/14/12. Starting at post #423 is the beginning discussions of the next upcoming GTG. Here is some basic info for those who are starting on page 1.......


Okay, so here is what I have for the probable attendees thus far:


Dennis Murphy: Philharmonic 2's - Cannot attend now, but will send speakers

Jim Salk: Salk SoundScape 10's - Confirmed

TJHUB (Duh, it's his house ): Salk HT2-TL w/LCY tweeter - Confirmed

Merrymaid520: Ascend Tower's with RAAL tweeter - Confirmed

Mrs. Merrymaid - Confirmed

krzywica: PSB Image T55's - Confirmed

Nuance (me): Salk SongTower RT's w/LCY tweeter - Confirmed

Mrs. Nuance - Confirmed

Warpdrv (50/50)

ALMFamily - Confirmed and is bringing a case of Coke

dlbeck

Randy Bessinger - Confirmed

Dogearz - Confirmed

Shadow Hunter - Confirmed

John (Terry's friend) - Confirmed

Mark (Terry's friend) - Confirmed

oppman99 (from Audioholics forum)

jb5200 - Confirmed

pennynike1

TurboFC3S (50/50): Vapor Audio Cirrus'

Pet Motel

PAD (Big Red Machine) - Confirmed

Archaea - Confirmed

Gregg (Terry's friend) - Confirmed

Kevin (Terry's friend) - Confirmed

Jeff and Kathy - Confirmed

Gear being used at TJHUB's:

My gear list:


Source: Logitech Touch

My Touch is running the SoundCheck TT3.0 mods with the volume lock activated (very important, and a long story). The Touch is fed via wired ethernet cable from a server computer in my basement. The server computer is set to do all of the FLAC decoding and streams PCM to the Touch. The Touch is also powered by a DIY power supply that almost made me flip out the first time I heard it. The performance is FAR better than just using an off the shelf linear power supply.


DAC: Eastern Electric MiniMax Plus

The DAC is completely stock at the moment, and will likely stay that way. I am using a Psvane 12AU7 tube though. I have some opamps I've rolled, but I'm very happy with the sound as-is.


Preamp: Rogue Audio Perseus

The preamp is 100% stock including the tubes. Since its arrival in my setup, I have been completely satisfied with it's performance. It basically just disappears completely with the tubes providing a more 3D and layered sound stage. For the record, there is no traditional warm or tube sound allowed in my house. I look to get the sound as realistic as possible.


Amps: Odyssey Audio Stratos Extreme SE Monoblocks

These monos have the "Extreme SE" upgrades which are dual transformers, and upgraded wire/components inside. It is my understanding that they output a little over 200wrms into 8ohms, and approximately 360wrms into 4ohms.


Cables: Don't kid yourself, they matter!

For those that care... I have a Black Cat SilverStar 75 digital coax between the Touch and my DAC. I am in the process of trying to decide between the Sweet Spot Reveal IC's and Morrow MA2 IC's. Both sound fantastic, but offer slightly different presentations. Either sets sound absolutely wonderful, so I'm having a difficult time picking a "winner." I'm running a DIY pair of PCOCC speaker cables that I think are the best I've heard. I purchased them pre-made with a loose Litz braid for $60.00 shipped.


Of course my speakers are Salk HT2-TL's with the older LCY ribbon tweeter. I don't think I've found their limits yet, but I don't think I'll be trying to anymore either. I've loved them since day one, and I've heard no other speaker I'd rather have. I do have an interest in possibly getting some Magnepan's in the future.


I do run a pair of EQ'd DIY 18" TC Sounds LMS-Ultra's for both music and HT. I hope to be able to show their performance for music at the GTG, time permitting. I think they are absolutely spectacular, and I can't live without them for my room. Of course they will likely be out of the room for the GTG to allow every speaker to display its full performance. I'm not worried about my HT2-TL's as they easily shake the floor with their bass output.


Update post 4/14 GTG

Here is the original Track List, and I added the only ones I could recall:


"Boxenkiller" by Cyrill Lutzelschwab and Martin Hess

"Ntyilo Ntyilo (The Love Bird)" by Hugh Masakela

"Walking On The Moon" by The Yuri Honing Trio

"Chant" by Fourplay

"Aaron Copland - Fanfare For The Common Man" by Erich Kunzel: Cincinnati Pops Orchestra

"Jazz Variants" by The O-Zone Percussion Group

"Red Rain (Instrumental)" by Peter Gabriel

"Dream On" by Kelly Sweet

"Just Like Love" by Steve Strauss

"Rubina" by Joe Satriani

"Into The Void" by Nine Inch Nails

"Hells Bells" by AC/DC

There was also a song we referred to as "Boom Boom" by Black Eyed Peas to test bass capability;


Philharmonic 2: $2000/pair

Salk SongTower RT: $2700.pair

Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower with RAAL ribbon: $2700/pair

JTR Tripple 12-LP: $3000 (per pair?)

Salk Veracity HT2-TL: $4500/pair

Seaton Catalyst: $7000/pair

Salk SoundScape 10: $12,000/pair


reviews listed by link:


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1384
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1208
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1160
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1121
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=994
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=945
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=946
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=916
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=894
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=843





The text below is from PREVIOUS GTG's, please do not confuse it with the information from above which is the upcoming 4/14/12 GTG.


Original post........Hey folks,

The WI audio boys are at it again. We plan to hold another little GTG auditioning my new Ascend Tower speakers among maybe some other speakers at my place in East Troy, WI.


We are shooting for Saturday April 2nd around 12:00.


Please let me know if you might be interested. I prefer to keep it geared towards speakers only so we do not have to worry about switching around cables, wires, amps, preamps, etc.


I will be running the speakers off my Parasound 2100 preamp and proceed Amp 3 using a squeezebox Touch as the source.


Please PM if you are interested in attending.


Attendees so far:

Nuance

TJHUB

Dogearz




I will update this thread on what speakers will be here as the date gets closer. (Im trying to talk either nuance or TJHUB to bring their Salks along)...Hint....hint


Speakers thus far:

Paradigm Sig 2's

Ascend Towers

Salk HT2-TL's



Thanks,

Brandon
 
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#255 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 /forum/post/20359292


When I listened to the Sierra-1 NrTs at Curtis's house, the highs sounded a bit forward, but that could have just been the mids being a bit recessed, which should have been fixed with the Towers.

I think the speaker in general was definitely more forward than the Energy Veritas, and standard Sierras, but also less veiled.
 
#256 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 /forum/post/20359230


Terry / Nuance,

Not looking to cause any hard feelings here (Im a lover not a fighter...he he) but could the upper mids and highs of the salks be somewhat dull or uninvolving in comparison to the more agressive Ascend Tweeter? I dont feel its lacking detail but rather differs in the presentation? If we use live music (not recorded, but a band or artist in person) as a reference, to my ears, the ascends are more dynamic in their presentation of this range. Just thinking out loud here.


Not trying to create a peeing match, just constructive conversation

There is no need to feel like anyone wants a fight. I hate that. What I do like is a civil discussion and debate. Sometimes people point out aspects that make me think or even realize something I had never paid attention to before. A lot of good can come from that.
That's why I asked the questions I asked you guys when we wrapped up the GTG.


I am shocked you think the Salk's are "dull" or "uninvolving" in any way. Seriously, shocked! To me, the ribbon tweeter gives them more resolution and makes them livelier. I never felt the tweeter in the Ascend's was aggressive, I felt like it was off tonally with some odd issues with certain tones or sounds. I agree the soft dome has the detail, you just have to really listen to hear it. The Salk ribbons make this more effortless while never being too bright.


Most live music doesn't sound "good". I can't remember the last time I heard a band in person that was mixed properly. If I had to listen to music like that all of the time, I wouldn't bother. So if a speaker brought that quality to all of my music, I wouldn't listen.


Some of my favorite music is live. You heard it at the GTG. It sounded wonderful tonally. As a matter of fact, it was that very music I used to judge tonality.


I personally don't think the Ascend's bring a live quality to the music. I think there is an upper midrange issue caused by the tweeter. Some of the tones I heard were just plain wrong. I wouldn't call it "dynamic."


I don't want anyone to get me wrong. I'm being very picky here. The Ascend Towers do more right than wrong, it's just that the wrong they do makes me not "prefer" them. I'd need an extended period of time with them to really understand them.


Nuance?
 
#257 ·
How important is "soundstage" to those at the sessions (and anybody wishing to give their views really)? I understand that was a very big part of Sanjay really admiring the Ascend tower in his listening session. One of the things that people who spend megabucks on speakers always seem to want is a realistic "soundstage".
 
#258 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger /forum/post/20359505


How important is "soundstage" to those at the sessions (and anybody wishing to give their views really)? I understand that was a very big part of Sanjay really admiring the Ascend tower in his listening session. One of the things that people who spend megabucks on speakers always seem to want is a realistic "soundstage".

When it comes to imaging, he is one of the most critical I know of.
 
#259 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang /forum/post/20359365


I think the speaker in general was definitely more forward than the Energy Veritas, and standard Sierras, but also less veiled.

Yes, I completely agree. It's obvious too since my friend (owner of the Veritas) has the treble turned up on his receiver to compensate. The downside is that I hear significant amounts of distortion when he has it EQd that way. Many people are used to this sound as that's what you hear in public places like clubs, but I've always thought those club speakers were horrendous. The distortion at most of these places are just disgusting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB /forum/post/20359427


There is no need to feel like anyone wants a fight. I hate that. What I do like is a civil discussion and debate. Sometimes people point out aspects that make me think or even realize something I had never paid attention to before. A lot of good can come from that.
That's why I asked the questions I asked you guys when we wrapped up the GTG.


I am shocked you think the Salk's are "dull" or "uninvolving" in any way. Seriously, shocked! To me, the ribbon tweeter gives them more resolution and makes them livelier. I never felt the tweeter in the Ascend's was aggressive, I felt like it was off tonally with some odd issues with certain tones or sounds. I agree the soft dome has the detail, you just have to really listen to hear it. The Salk ribbons make this more effortless while never being too bright.


Most live music doesn't sound "good". I can't remember the last time I heard a band in person that was mixed properly. If I had to listen to music like that all of the time, I wouldn't bother. So if a speaker brought that quality to all of my music, I wouldn't listen.


Some of my favorite music is live. You heard it at the GTG. It sounded wonderful tonally. As a matter of fact, it was that very music I used to judge tonality.


I personally don't think the Ascend's bring a live quality to the music. I think there is an upper midrange issue caused by the tweeter. Some of the tones I heard were just plain wrong. I wouldn't call it "dynamic."


I don't want anyone to get me wrong. I'm being very picky here. The Ascend Towers do more right than wrong, it's just that the wrong they do makes me not "prefer" them. I'd need an extended period of time with them to really understand them.


Nuance?

I agree about the live music part as you can infer from my response to Curtis, if by live music you're referring to as a concert with a band playing through mics and speakers. The speakers used in these venues are designed for SPL and CD(constant directivity) so that the entire crowd can listen. These are PA speakers not designed for high fidelity critical listening.


However, if by live music doesn't sound "good" you're referring to orchestras, then I disagree. Those are the most realistic pieces of music one can ever hear. That is what I'm looking for in a set of speakers.
 
#260 ·
I do not find my dome SongTowers to be lacking in detail at all. I think it comes down to personal perference as to whether you prefer a more detailed speaker opposed to one thats more laid back. I enjoyed my non NrT Sierra-1s very much although some find them to be too laid back and lacking in detail. I found the dome STs bring more detail to the table over the Sierra-1s but not too much as to be on the bright side.


I think it is hard at times when speakers sre being discussed as we are doing here that people might be offended by others honest opinions. I never take it personal as everyone will hear the same speaker in the same environment differently. If someone thinks the STs suck thats fine with me but I'm sticking with mine. I would be somewhat suspicious of that person as he would probably be setting me up to buy my STs if I sold them cheap
.


I think you can not go wrong with any of the speakers that were at the recent WAC'd GTG. Its just which one you prefer SQ wise, within ones budget and the build quality preference (veneers etc.) as well.


Bill
 
#261 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 /forum/post/20359230


Terry / Nuance,

Not looking to cause any hard feelings here (Im a lover not a fighter...he he) but could the upper mids and highs of the salks be somewhat dull or uninvolving in comparison to the more agressive Ascend Tweeter? I dont feel its lacking detail but rather differs in the presentation? If we use live music (not recorded, but a band or artist in person) as a reference, to my ears, the ascends are more dynamic in their presentation of this range. Just thinking out loud here.


Not trying to create a peeing match, just constructive conversation

Brandon, no one thinks you're looking to picking a fight. This is just a hobby, so you're not offending me in any way. I do sometimes feel like I am setting myself up for a beating when I post my honest impressions after GTG's like these, though.


My personal opinion is that there is nothing dull about the Salk's (quite the opposite in fact), but I am just one guy with only my own opinion. Your dull might be my refined and lively, and vice versa. I don't think I've ever seen the word "dull" used concerning the Salk's before, though. I guess there is a first for everything.


On to the soundstage questions, I would say the Ascends threw a very realistic soundstage; one of the best at the GTG. Imaging was also very good. I can see why sanjay liked them. It is only one attribute in speaker design, though.


In short, I agree with Terry (gee, big shocker, right?). I really cannot add much to his post, as he explained it very well.


I really hope no one is getting bent out of shape about our differing opinions. The whole point of these GTG's is to have fun, enjoy the good company and listen to some cool tunes. And on a more personal level, its about finding out if your speakers (or the ones in attendance) (still) make you happy. I left the GTG with no desire to trade my speakers for the Ascends or Paradigms, and I'd guess Brandon left not willing to trade his either. Who's right? Who's wrong? Neither of us. We stuck with what we preferred, and I'd be willing to bet if he preferred the Salks after the GTG he'd likely sell the Ascends. The same goes for me, as I could care less what brand I own; I just want to best sounding speaker that I can afford.
When I find something that tops mine for within the same price range, I'll pull the trigger and then happily shout it from the mountain tops.
 
#262 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 /forum/post/20359702



However, if by live music doesn't sound "good" you're referring to orchestras, then I disagree. Those are the most realistic pieces of music one can ever hear. That is what I'm looking for in a set of speakers.

I agree with this. Luckily, the crossover designer for Salk uses classical music as an aid while designing them, so I guess it makes sense that I feel the Salk's excel very well with live orchestral music, not to mention studio recordings.
 
#263 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance /forum/post/20359777


My personal opinion is that there is nothing dull about the Salk's (quite the opposite in fact), but I am just one guy with only my own opinion. Your dull might be my refined and lively, and vice versa. I don't think I've ever seen the word "dull" used concerning the Salk's before, though. I guess there is a first for everything.

This calls for an example. I used to go to a friends house (way back in the day, in the 70's) when most electronics had tone controls. He didn't hear the highs very well so he would have the bass toned down and the treble turned all the way to the right. Because of his hearing that was making his system sound to him better than any other settings. To me I couldn't stay in the room with it as there was so much treble and so loud it just didn't sound like music to me. It wasn't a matter of who was right or wrong, just what it sounds like to the listener.


No one should be dismissed or jumped on or anything else. If 1 person thinks the ST sounded better than the Ascends then they are just stating what they heard and vice versa, it's not personal and I appreciate all of you guys feedback from your GTG. I'm going to purchase new speakers fairly soon and all this helps. I won't be able to go $4500 but I'm gonna jump in somewhere around the $2000 point.
 
#264 ·
I was referring more to the salks being less involving than the ascends, not that they are a dull speaker by any means. Sorry, ha!


As for the "live" music I was referring to a more intimate venue where its maybe just a few band members playing to a small audience, nothing arena like. Here is where I get a chance to listen to the instruments themselves being played without any recording mixes playing a part in the sound. To me a recording will never be like hearing an actual instrument in person. One gets a chance to hear the tonality of a certain instrument and the dynamics of multiple ones playing together. For example, when I stay at my parents place in FL, there are all sorts of bands playing all over inside and out, where I get a chance to get a good feeling on what a live guitar or drum sounds like.


No worries Terry, I respect your opinions!


B

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB /forum/post/20359427


There is no need to feel like anyone wants a fight. I hate that. What I do like is a civil discussion and debate. Sometimes people point out aspects that make me think or even realize something I had never paid attention to before. A lot of good can come from that.
That's why I asked the questions I asked you guys when we wrapped up the GTG.


I am shocked you think the Salk's are "dull" or "uninvolving" in any way. Seriously, shocked! To me, the ribbon tweeter gives them more resolution and makes them livelier. I never felt the tweeter in the Ascend's was aggressive, I felt like it was off tonally with some odd issues with certain tones or sounds. I agree the soft dome has the detail, you just have to really listen to hear it. The Salk ribbons make this more effortless while never being too bright.


Most live music doesn't sound "good". I can't remember the last time I heard a band in person that was mixed properly. If I had to listen to music like that all of the time, I wouldn't bother. So if a speaker brought that quality to all of my music, I wouldn't listen.


Some of my favorite music is live. You heard it at the GTG. It sounded wonderful tonally. As a matter of fact, it was that very music I used to judge tonality.


I personally don't think the Ascend's bring a live quality to the music. I think there is an upper midrange issue caused by the tweeter. Some of the tones I heard were just plain wrong. I wouldn't call it "dynamic."


I don't want anyone to get me wrong. I'm being very picky here. The Ascend Towers do more right than wrong, it's just that the wrong they do makes me not "prefer" them. I'd need an extended period of time with them to really understand them.


Nuance?
 
#265 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 /forum/post/20359928


I was referring more to the salks being less involving than the ascends, not that they are a dull speaker by any means. Sorry, ha!


As for the "live" music I was referring to a more intimate venue where its maybe just a few band members playing to a small audience, nothing arena like. Here is where I get a chance to listen to the instruments themselves being played without any recording mixes playing a part in the sound. To me a recording will never be like hearing an actual instrument in person. One gets a chance to hear the tonality of a certain instrument and the dynamics of multiple ones playing together. For example, when I stay at my parents place in FL, there are all sorts of bands playing all over inside and out, where I get a chance to get a good feeling on what a live guitar or drum sounds like.


No worries Terry, I respect your opinions!


B

I got you. I don't think I heard better dynamics, but I may have missed that.


I respect your opinion of your speakers as well. One thing that is clear to me is that we all listen differently. We have to get what's best for ourselves.
 
#267 ·
Well one thing's for certain, speaker loyalty is alive and well



Apparently none of the speakers were that much better than the other to tempt someone to jump ship........ even the $8k Paradigm Sigs didn't fare so well.


DreamCatcher
 
#268 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 /forum/post/20360701


Wow, I totally had a serial killer look on my face when you snapped that picture, ha! Caught me off guard, probably in a deep sonic euphoria. The Ascends must have been playing

Is that an axe in your hand behind the couch
?


Bill
 
#269 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher /forum/post/20360739


Well one thing's for certain, speaker loyalty is alive and well



Apparently none of the speakers were that much better than the other to tempt someone to jump ship........ even the $8k Paradigm Sigs didn't fare so well.


DreamCatcher

Agreed. Sounds like a classic case of "Nothing sounds quite as nice as that which I own". Indeed, some of the descriptions of the attributes of the speakers sound like wine critic puffery. I'm waiting for someone to describe the Salk's mids as chocolate on the nose with a hint of oak and a peppery finish.
 
#270 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by malaplace /forum/post/20360770


agreed. Sounds like a classic case of "nothing sounds quite as nice as that which i own". Indeed, some of the descriptions of the attributes of the speakers sound like wine critic puffery. I'm waiting for someone to describe the salk's mids as chocolate on the nose with a hint of oak and a peppery finish.

lol
 
#272 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by malaplace
Agreed. Sounds like a classic case of "Nothing sounds quite as nice as that which I own". Indeed, some of the descriptions of the attributes of the speakers sound like wine critic puffery. I'm waiting for someone to describe the Salk's mids as chocolate on the nose with a hint of oak and a peppery finish.
You obviously didn't understand anything anyone posted. This doesn't surprise me, though.
 
#274 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher
Well one thing's for certain, speaker loyalty is alive and well



Apparently none of the speakers were that much better than the other to tempt someone to jump ship........ even the $8k Paradigm Sigs didn't fare so well.


DreamCatcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by malaplace
Agreed. Sounds like a classic case of "Nothing sounds quite as nice as that which I own". Indeed, some of the descriptions of the attributes of the speakers sound like wine critic puffery. I'm waiting for someone to describe the Salk's mids as chocolate on the nose with a hint of oak and a peppery finish.
You two guys are really great. A group of guys go through all the effort to pack up their speakers and haul them around to share their experiences, and this is what you two have to offer.
Let me extend a big thank you to you both. I for one really appreciate it. I hope the other guys do as well.


And yes, it is obvious you didn't understand anything posted.
 
#275 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB
A group of guys go through all the effort to pack up their speakers and haul them around to share their experiences,
Thanks, to all of you for your effort, and sharing the results. It will

assist and help a lot of people.
 
#276 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB
You two guys are really great. A group of guys go through all the effort to pack up their speakers and haul them around to share their experiences, and this is what you two have to offer.
Let me extend a big thank you to you both. I for one really appreciate it. I hope the other guys do as well.


And yes, it is obvious you didn't understand anything posted.
A bit touchy aren't we



I for one really appreciate the effort you guys put into this speaker shootout.

And I'm not surprised each speaker owner preferred their respective speaker, after all that's what you're use to hearing, good or bad, right or wrong.

Even the newbs came away undecided which of the participating speakers would be their next/future purchase.


Peace


DreamCatcher
 
#277 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher
A bit touchy aren't we



I for one really appreciate the effort you guys put into this speaker shootout.

And I'm not surprised each speaker owner preferred their respective speaker, after all that's what you're use to hearing, good or bad, right or wrong.

Even the newbs came away undecided which of the participating speakers would be their next/future purchase.


Peace


DreamCatcher
Maybe a little touchy. I guess I wouldn't crap on a thread like that, and I don't think you should either.


But seriously, you need to re-read the thread if you think what you've stated is correct.
 
#279 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 /forum/post/20361688


Thanks, to all of you for your effort, and sharing the results. It will

assist and help a lot of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 /forum/post/20361862


I thoroughly enjoyed following the thread and appreciate all of your efforts. Please ignore the ******** comments and keep up the good work!

Thanks guys. We appreciate it.


I felt bad having the guys pack up their precious speakers to drag them to my house risking scratches and damage. I've done it once, and it was nerve racking. Then when you read negative comments like that, it certainly doesn't make any of this worth it.
 
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