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craig john's theater

114K views 618 replies 71 participants last post by  gregavi 
#1 · (Edited)
Updated on 8-13-2022 to show the current state of the theater:

In 2009, I upgraded my speaker system with a full set of Triad speakers. The fronts are Platinum LCR's with a Platinum CC:



The deep red burgundy drapes in this pic were hand-made by my wife.

I bought these speakers "used" and the set came with the horizontal CC. Even though it is a horizontal CC, it uses the same vertical MTM driver array as the L/R's. It also uses the exact same drivers as the L/R's. The only significant different is the lateral placement of the woofers. I would have preferred a 3rd identical LCR speaker, but the set came this way, and the timbre-match between the 3 speakers is so good that I feel no need to replace the CC with a 3rd LCR. Please note that all 3 tweeters are at exactly the same height, which is exactly my seated ear height, and which further enhances the timbre-match.

CC:


The stands were custom built by a good friend and forum member, @DMark1. I helped, but my woodworking skills pale to insignificance compared to Dennis'. Dennis has a side business building drum kits. He has honed his wood working skills by making some beautiful drums kits. Markley Custom Drums He's also a professional drummer and percussionist, so he has a great ear for music and has helped me significantly in fine tuning my system.

The stands have 1.5" thick plinths with columns supporting the speakers. The columns are 1 layer of 3/4", 9-ply plywood with an inner layer of 3/4" MDF. The two layers are adhered with Green Glue and the CC column is additionally lined with No-Rez. All this was done to reduce resonance in the columns. (Doing the knuckle rap test shows that the efforts were successful. The columns are very dead.) They were painted with the original Triad factory paint used on my speakers. We bought the paint directly from Triad and got the application instructions directly from the lead "paint guy" at Triad. Dennis has a spray booth in his drum shop, and he applied the paint there. The final coat is a textured "spatter" coat that required some specific painting skills. Fortunately, Dennis has them. Here is a pic of the CC stand:



As you can see, the paint is a perfect match. What's even more amazing is how good the texture match turned out.



Needless to say, I am extremely happy with how they compliment the speakers!

I also added Triad surrounds. I used the Silver Monitors because they use the same mid-woofers as the LCR's, but 6.5" instead of 5.25"), and a tweeter that is almost exactly the same as the Platinum's but without the dispersion lens. I use 4 Silver Monitors placed as Wides and Sides. The Wides are supposed to be at 60 degrees to the listening position, but as you will see in the pic below, I couldn't quite get them that wide. Due to wall constraints, they ended up at about 50 degrees. They still work quite well there. Here is a pic of the right Wide:



I have 3 Submersive HP's for subwoofer duties. They are placed somewhat randomly around the room and EQ'd with Audyssey XT32. Here is a pic of the right, front Submersive HP:



In addition to the Submersive on the right side of the CC, there is a 2nd Submersive on the left wall beneath the left Wide. The 3rd Submersive is on the left side wall behind the LP at about 4/5 of the long dimension of the room. About a year ago, I replaced the amps in the subs with the redesigned amps from Seaton Sound. They have more control and flexibility than the origianal amps. After gain-matching the 3 subs, optimizing their Delay settings, EQ'ing them with Audyssey XT32, and adjusting the target curve to my preference in Audyssey:X, I get the following frequency response and max output/compression:



That is just the subs, (no speakers, with an 80 Hz crossover.) That is 115 dB at 10 Hz with no compression.

Here is the in-room decay of the subs:



... and here is a 1/3 Octave RTA of the full bandwidth of the system:



I also added Atmos to my system in 2020. I used RSL C34e's for the speakers, 4 speakers in a Top Fronts and Top Rears configuration. These are unenclosed in-ceiling seakers with 15 degree angled baffles and an additional 15 degrees of tweeter tilt adjustment. I had custom-built backboxes made that are exactly 2'x2' squares and drop right into my ceiling gridwork. The speakers are rotated in the boxes to aim them as closely as possible at the Primary LP:




The rest of my audio equipment consists of:

Pre/Pro:
Marantz AV 8805

Power Amps:
Sanway Clone Amp, 2,400 wpc x 2, for L & R
Earthquake Cinemova Grande BR7, 650 wpc @ 4 Ohms x 7, for CC, Wides, Sides and Rears
Earthquake Cinenova Grand 5, 650 wpc @ 4 Ohms x 5 for 4 Overheads

Source Devices:
Roku 4k Ultra
Apple TV 4K
Oppo BDP UDP 205

Tactile Motion Actuators:
Crowson Technology TES 100 Shadow 8 Dual Motion Actuator System, (2 transducers)
Crowson Technology D-501 Tactile Mtion Amplifier

Here are pics of the audio equipment:


... and the Middle Atlantic Rack that holds everything:




Video System:
JVC RS2000 4K Projector with HDR and Theater Optimzer
SeymourAV CenterStage UF, 115" Diagonal, 2.35, motorized, retractable, Acoustically Transparent, (AT), screen with Side Masking
Panamorph DCR Palladin Anamorphic Lens
DataColor SpyderX meter for use with JVC AutoCal

Here is a pic of the Seymour AT screen deployed:


(This pic shows the L/R speakers outside the screen borders. I have since moved them to just inside the screen borders. This places them at 23 degrees from the LP, which is inside the recommend 22 to 30 degrees.)

Here is the screen with the 16x9 Side Mask's deployed:



(Screen shots are available here:

Acoustic Treatments:
The room is acoustically treated, with 12" thick acoustic cotton over fiberglass bass traps in the front corners, (they're behind the burgundy drapes.) The front wall is treated with 2" of acoustical cotton. The side walls past the first reflection points are treated with 6" of acoustic cotton. All the absorption is covered by the deep burgundy velvet drapes, hand-made by my wife.

The ceiling is a dropped acoustical ceiling using CaPaul Open Plan 1" thick tiles with a black nubby finish. Above the dropped ceiling, the overhead joist spaces are stuffed with fiberglass insulation, making the entire ceiling a large bass trap/broadband absorber. The floor is concrete with dark brown carpet over the thickest pad available. With all the dark surfaces, and all the acoustic absorption in the front of the room, when the lights go out and the movie starts to play, the front of the room is one big black hole for both light and sound.

There are other acoustical treatments placed around the room to reduce slap echo. Here is a pic of one of them:


The seating is a 4-chair row of Acoustic Innovations Traditional seats with power recline, heating and vibration. configured as in this pic:

Brown Couch Furniture Product Rectangle


The seats are a Burgundy leather. (The pic makes them look lighter than they actually are.) They sit on an 8" riser. This gets my eyes to 1/3 screen height, my ears to tweeter height. The seats are shifted to the left so the 2nd seat from the left is directly the sweet spot, (guess who's seat that is!) The Crowson transducers are placed with two seats straddling each transducer, allowing all 4 seats and the riser to have tactile motion with with deep bass.

Summary:
I have been an HT enthusiast for about 35 years. I built my first "HT" in 1987, (before the term "Home Theater" was even in use). That theater used a 50" Pioneer RPTV. At the time a 50" TV was unheard of, and my "HT" had a huge "WOW Factor." Soon after, I acquired a LaserDisc player... and the rest is history. :) I have been through quite few different systems in the ensuing years. However, the above system is far and away the best I've ever had in my HT. I have a few things to do yet, but I am close to the point that my "upgradeitits" is almost cured. :) (Yeah right, she said!) :D

In the meantime, I am thoroughly enjoying my system!😄

Thanks for reading.

Craig

Last edited on 8-13-2022
 
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#27 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke /forum/post/20809304


Craig, quick question. You said your screen was an AT 120" screen. That is obscene BTW
. The Plats are to either side of the screen. Obviously the center is behind the screen. You said you were thinking about a new projector and you are getting new seats that will go on a riser. In your space, could you adjust everything so that you can accommodate a larger screen that would extend past the right and left Plat's? Not that you have to. Your screen is pretty damn big as it is. I was just wondering if it could be done that's all. Just for the total illusion feeling.

Hi Mike.


Yes, I could get a bigger screen and have it extend past the L/R Plat's. However, that gets to be a very big screen. At my 11' seating distance, 120" diagonal is already plenty big. My wife actually thinks the current screen is a little too big, but I think she's gotten used to it. To go bigger and get the speakers behind it, (without moving them), I would need to go to about 146" diagonal. That's a very big screen... too big for an 11" viewing distance.



Also, I wouldn't want the bottom of the screen any lower, so the added 10" of screen height would have to go at the top. That would force the viewer to look up too much and cause some neck/eye strain.


I could also move the L/R speakers in so they are behind the current screen. Actually, when I first got them, that's were I placed them. However, with the Plat's outside the screen edges, the front soundstage is noticeably wider, and I like that better. It seems just right.


I'm pretty content with my screen right now. A new projector is definitely on the horizon though.



Craig
 
#28 ·
Got you. Yea 146" would be huge. But I think I have seen screens that big. That's just plain silly
. Your screen size is awesome to me. Personally, I don't think you need any bigger. You picture is crystal clear to me. I am sure that you will pick the best new projector also.
 
#30 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke /forum/post/20813663


Where does the madness end. I just saw a theater in the $20,000 section that has a 170" wide screen. I don't know what that is diagonal. Plus I have seen another one that has a 176" screen. Now that IS just plain silly

Actually, in a larger theater, with a greater viewing distance, a larger screen makes sense. Here's a calculator that can help determine the optimal screen size for the viewing distance:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html

You'll see that I'm actually sitting a little too close to my screen... but I'm OK with that.



Craig
 
#31 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/20813818


Actually, in a larger theater, with a greater viewing distance, a larger screen makes sense. Here's a calculator that can help determine the optimal screen size for the viewing distance:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html

You'll see that I'm actually sitting a little too close to my screen... but I'm OK with that.



Craig

I saw that as well. I know that I could go with a larger screen if I wanted to. But I think mine matches the room. So does yours. I guess being in my room and even my living room I tend to forget that are people that have really massive rooms out there. That's why I focused more on the audio portion of my system. Because that really does not take up "space" like a screen does. So my goal was to get the audio as good as it possibly could be.
 
#32 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke /forum/post/20813878


I saw that as well. I know that I could go with a larger screen if I wanted to. But I think mine matches the room. So does yours. .

So does mine Mike thought with mine I couldnt go any bigger if I wanted to I think its perfect at the size it is. I wish I bought a screen like craig where im able to put the speakers behind the screen, thats a big plus in my book.
 
#33 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin /forum/post/20819855


So does mine Mike thought with mine I couldnt go any bigger if I wanted to I think its perfect at the size it is. I wish I bought a screen like craig where im able to put the speakers behind the screen, thats a big plus in my book.

PLEASE, 117" is Plenty big
. I would be happy with a 92in screen. That is what my friend has with a slightly older Sim2 projector and it looks great.
 
#34 ·
I think Frank is referring to the acoustic transparency of my screen. I will say that going AT was a *big* improvement. I previously had a 92" fixed, wall mounted, non-AT screen. This dictated that the CC be placed below it. Therefore I had a horizontal CC situated below the screen. I always noticed that the CC was too low. It was below the video image and voices didn't "lock up" perfectly with the on-screen image. With an AT screen, and the CC being placed directly *behind* the screen, the audio and the video lock up precisely. It may seem like a subtle change, but the improvement is significant.


Craig
 
#35 ·
My friend has a non AT screen and his screen is a non fixed retractable one that comes down from the ceiling. He freely admits that my audio is better but even with a non AT screen, and his center below it, it is still a very nice system. If I had my way and a room to do it right, I would hope that I could set something up where all the speakers are behind the screen. But AT would be it for me so at least I would have the center behind it. For now, I have to live with my KILLER 42in plasma
.

P.S I hope your chair experience is better than mine was. Looking forward to checking out you system again.
 
#36 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/20833722


I think Frank is referring to the acoustic transparency of my screen. I will say that going AT was a *big* improvement. I previously had a 92" fixed, wall mounted, non-AT screen. This dictated that the CC be placed below it. Therefore I had a horizontal CC situated below the screen. I always noticed that the CC was too low. It was below the video image and voices didn't "lock up" perfectly with the on-screen image. With an AT screen, and the CC being placed directly *behind* the screen, the audio and the video lock up precisely. It may seem like a subtle change, but the improvement is significant.


Craig

That's correct Craig.

My room been treated originally by a HAA consultant helped a lot with the front stage imaging which is quite good to be honest but I believe and know that speakers behind the screen will show a significant improvement. Unfortunately due to my room size it does make it hard( wont say it cant happen ) but I will look at it one day.
 
#38 ·
Craig, if I remember correctly, you had a couch to sit on right? When you get the new chairs, will you still keep the couch as well? You said you got a 4 seat row. I can imagine that the were not cheap. Given what my Lazy Boy chairs were and what the ones I was planning on getting would have cost me. Any plans in the future of getting a second row at some point?
 
#40 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don the A/V Dude
That is the nicest screen calculator I've ever seen!


The system looks phenomenal Craig, great work- and thank you for turning me on to AVS Forum!
Hi Don! Welcome to the forum. We'll have to get you and your wife over here soon. In the meantime, enjoy the forum. I'm sure that with your background and knowledge, you'll be a great asset to the forum. Be careful though... it can be addicting!



Craig


PS. Don, be sure to add your website in your sig. and in your profile.
 
#41 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don the A/V Dude
That is the nicest screen calculator I've ever seen!
The calculator works nice, but the statement >>Recommended THX viewing distance (36 degree viewing angle)
 
#42 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler
The calculator works nice, but the statement >>Recommended THX viewing distance (36 degree viewing angle)
 
#43 ·
Craig,

Quote:
Be careful though... it can be addicting!
...I believe you're right..





I expressed it before, but love the system progression. You have a wonderful demeanor to your contributions, your tech savvy is solid, yet you possess a very down to earth posting style,...and that's refreshing.



Q; what is your most needed tended to acoustic issue,..or are you right where you want to be?


Q; wrt viewing angle, I'm relatively weak on the visual side of HT (nor is the the ideal place), however wouldn't there be a singular ideal distance for a rez/screen size combo? Any farther and rez is wasted, any closer and rez elements can be seen.


Q; also, what's the most demanding material, ie., the most demanding single scene on your sub system?


Q; attending Cedia?


Thanks
 
#44 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH /forum/post/20862292


Craig,

...I believe you're right..





I expressed it before, but love the system progression. You have a wonderful demeanor to your contributions, your tech savvy is solid, yet you possess a very down to earth posting style,...and that's refreshing.

Thanks, FOH. I've learned a lot from contributors like yourself over the years.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH /forum/post/20862292


Q; what is your most needed tended to acoustic issue,..or are you right where you want to be?

I would like to add some diffusion. However, most diffusion panels are ugly and expensive. They're also somewhat complex to DIY. I don't feel a pressing *need* to do this, but I think it may have some benefit.


OTOH, if I could start over again... there's a lot of changes I would make, starting with a wall to enclose the room, and make it symmetrical and rectangular. Then I would take great pains with sound *isolation* which I have none of ATM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH /forum/post/20862292


Q; wrt viewing angle, I'm relatively weak on the visual side of HT (nor is the the ideal place), however wouldn't there be a singular ideal distance for a rez/screen size combo? Any farther and rez is wasted, any closer and rez elements can be seen.

Good point, and this was much more important with older 720p projectors, where screen door effect was more obvious. With 1080P projectors, this is less of a problem, and viewing distances can be closer without having to view visible projector artifacts. However, some screens have heir own artifacts, (sparklies, hot spots, etc.), and closer viewing distances can make those worse. My AT screen has a woven fabric structure. If I get too close to the screen, I can start to the weave. However, at my 11' viewing distance, and with my getting older eyesight,
I can't see the weave at all when viewing content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH /forum/post/20862292


Q; also, what's the most demanding material, ie., the most demanding single scene on your sub system?

Terminator Salvation gives it a workout, as does Tron, The Dark Knight, War of the Worlds, Master and Commander, Ironman and Flight of the Phoenix. However, my all time favorite scenes to use for demo use are:


King Kong, Bronto stampede and triple T-Rexx/KK battle

Avatar, First Flight scene

Alice In Wonderland, most any scene

All of these movies have rich saturated colors and excellent surround tracks. They have some good, but not great bass scenes, but the overall experiences shows off the whole system.


And the last piece I use for every demo I do:

Eagles, Farewell 1 Tour on HD-DVD. This was shot on 1080P/60 video cameras, so the PQ is stunning. The soundtrack is the best recording I've ever heard on any concert DVD/BluRay/HD DVD. And I grew up with the music and know every note of every song, as does virtually everyone else. Every time I end a demo with that concert, my guests always leave with a huge smile. In fact, that concert is the only reason I keep my HD-DVD player hooked up. I wish it would come out on BluRay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH /forum/post/20862292


Q; attending Cedia?

Unfortunately not this year. I am on-call at the hospital and can't get anyone to cover for me. I would really like to go to be able to lay eyes on the new batch of projectors. Just not happenin'.



Are you attending?


Craig
 
#45 ·
Hi Craig,


I noticed there is no center seat in your new seating. Does this mean the "sweet spot" is no longer a major influence? Perhaps the seating will be offset in your room? I bet in leather they will look and feel fantastic!


Offtopic, Have you heard the new Danley loudspeakers at Lambeau field yet? I was curious if you, as a spectator, could notice the difference from the old system? The loudspeaker system is comprised of 17 GH60 Genesis Horns, 14 TH118 subwoofers, 20 SH100 downfills, and 56 SHmicro's in the luxury boxes. Wow!
 
#46 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinculum /forum/post/20864892


Hi Craig,


I noticed there is no center seat in your new seating. Does this mean the "sweet spot" is no longer a major influence? Perhaps the seating will be offset in your room? I bet in leather they will look and feel fantastic!

I did not want to be the first to ask this question but I was thinking the same thing. Which seat do you predict to be the "sweet spot" After gettibg chairs nyself that allow me to sit in the sweet spot, I understand how important it is. Can't wait for you to get them. I will also be in touch so we can work out a time for you to check out my new chairs.
 
#47 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinculum /forum/post/20864892


Hi Craig,


I noticed there is no center seat in your new seating. Does this mean the "sweet spot" is no longer a major influence? Perhaps the seating will be offset in your room? I bet in leather they will look and feel fantastic!

Hi Scott,


Good pickup on the "sweet spot" issue. However, I specifically chose those seats because I could configure them such that the second seat from the left could be placed *exactly* in the sweet spot. This will place the console off center and the other primary seat to the right of the console a little further off axis of the sweet spot. But *my* seat will be perfectly centered on the screen and the CC, and equidistant from the L/R's. I wouldn't have it any other way. The 4th seat, all the way right, will be outside the right speaker plane, but that's kind of a "throw away" seat anyway. I'll sit in it when I have guests over, and will (temporarily) give up the sweet spot. In fact, the next time you're over, I'll sit there and make sure YOU get the sweet spot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinculum /forum/post/20864892


Offtopic, Have you heard the new Danley loudspeakers at Lambeau field yet? I was curious if you, as a spectator, could notice the difference from the old system? The loudspeaker system is comprised of 17 GH60 Genesis Horns, 14 TH118 subwoofers, 20 SH100 downfills, and 56 SHmicro's in the luxury boxes. Wow!

I haven't been to Lambeau in a few years. I did follow the AV upgrade they did. From what I understand, it's a HUGE improvement. The old system was pretty antiquated.


Here's a video:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=2051257375139


Here's what they're planning to do next:




I'm gonna hafta schedule a trip to Lambeau.



Craig
 
#48 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke /forum/post/20867155


I did not want to be the first to ask this question but I was thinking the same thing. Which seat do you predict to be the "sweet spot" After gettibg chairs nyself that allow me to sit in the sweet spot, I understand how important it is. Can't wait for you to get them. I will also be in touch so we can work out a time for you to check out my new chairs.

Yes, we both understand the importance of finding the "sweet spot." (See above.)



Craig
 
#49 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/20867609


In fact, the next time you're over, I'll sit there and make sure YOU get the sweet spot.


Craig

Now there's something I'll be looking forward to!


RE: Lambeau Field, as usual, you're on top of it!
 
#50 ·
That's pretty cool that you have the ability to configure the chairs a bit so you can sit right in the sweet spot. They do look fantastic BTW. I think I got mine as close as I could. I will give you and Dennis that chair of course when you guys come over. I will interested in hearing your thoughts about where they are.
 
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