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Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread

551K views 8K replies 371 participants last post by  Bob Sorel 
#1 ·

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/10/c...nder-hands-on/


excellent news. I really thought Ceton might do something like this as a way to continue to add value to the platform.

 

 

Minimum System Requirements:
  • Display with HDMI input
  • Wired Ethernet network
  • PC with Microsoft® Windows® 7 with Media Center. A PC with a TV tuner is required for TV and DVR features.

Tech Specs:
  • Size: 3.9" x 0.8" x 4.3"
  • Power Consumption: less than 5 watts
  • Outputs: HDMI, Optical Digital Audio (TOSLINK)
  • Other Connectors: USB 2.0, Mini USB (for power)
  • Network: Ethernet (10/100/1000)
  • Audio formats supported: Dolby Digital AC-3, MP3, PCM, WMA, WMA Pro
  • Photo formats supported: BMP, GIF, JPG, PNG, TIF
  • Video formats supported: MPEG-1, MPEG-2, H.264, WMV9

Included in the Box:
  • Ceton Echo
  • Remote control
  • USB power cable (2 m/6.5 ft.) and adapter
  • HDMI cable (1.5 m/5 ft.)
  • Ethernet cable (1.5 m/5 ft.)
  • Quick Start Guide

Warranty:
  • 1-year limited warranty

[edit] - since they are creating two distinct products, I thought I would change the thread title to focus on the Echo extender and create another thread specific to the Q DVR box based on Windows 7 Embedded.
 
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#103 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 /forum/post/21490543


Eric from Ceton said it they expect it to play more than the Xbox can.

I saw that, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. We don't know enough about the device yet, but if it's not just an extender and is a streamer as well (outside the Extender experience), that's a whole another story. If it's just an Extender....I fail to see how they can add anything that Microsoft's licensing does not allow.
 
#104 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone /forum/post/21490614


I saw that, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. We don't know enough about the device yet, but if it's not just an extender and is a streamer as well (outside the Extender experience), that's a whole another story. If it's just an Extender....I fail to see how they can add anything that Microsoft's licensing does not allow.

"Just" an extender that can play the popular file formats(mkv, mp4, etc) alone will make it a real winner when added ontop of the std extender experience of streaming live TV and recorded TV thru 7mc/MB
 
#106 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 /forum/post/21490127


I really want clarification on what exactly will be supported and not with the Q vs a WMC machine.

This. I'm confused on what a media center extender can/can not do by its native design. In other words, outside of adding additional file type support, could it be possible that these extenders actually support streaming services (like Netflix) within the same MCE interface WITH a Win7 machine (not the Q)?


None of the legacy extenders do this (x280n, DMA2100, 360) - I wasn't sure if this was a design limitation or if the market just didn't get a chance to fully mature before the extender market basically died. That is until the advent of the cablecard market within the past 2 years.
 
#107 ·
The dsm750 extender had capabilities outside of wmc like napster, rhapsody, etc. I also believe it could be set up with any upnp server software like the dsm320 and 520 to play audio/video/pictures. I thought the x280n did too but I don't know for sure.


That entire generation of devices was killed off before services like netflix and pandora becamee must haves
 
#108 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone /forum/post/21490265

Quote:
5) Ability to use standard commercial skipping applications

On an "Extender"???

what is so confusing about that? I currently do that on a daily bases with my sage HDx00 extenders...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfink /forum/post/0


PCH media compatibility with 7MC would be a really, really big deal.

SageTV already did that... it is not anything new...


it is still unclear as to what artificial limitations will be placed upon Ceton by the 'powers that be' or if there will be any simple ways to unlock/bypass such limitations.


the only 2 new things echo seems to bring to the table are:

1) DRM support (not sure I care, but I can see how some would...)

2) Ceton hasn't been gobbled up by google (yet) (this is probably the most important point to some of us Sage users... ie Ceton still exists...
and existence is good...)
 
#109 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 /forum/post/21490247


As for Netflix, not a draw anymore because in a typical Home Theatre setup, you will have HDTV that already has Netflix player and BD player that has Netflix player as well. Last thing I want is another Netflix player. Certainly not worth $50 more.

you obviously have never experienced the joys of a unified UI/user experience...

most of us who have will never voluntarily go back to using X on TV, Y from HTPC, etc...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 /forum/post/21490247


If Echo sells for $199 like you said, it will fail. Mark my word. Not sure if it is even possible to sell for $100 because of the license fee paid to Microsoft.

define fail?

if it does at least what the Sage HD300 did, plus adds DRM'd CC streaming $299 would be a very reasonable price...


for example Sage HD300's went for $150 new, even though sage got gobbled up by google and has been a dead product for almost a year, there hasn't been a single HD300 sold on ebay for less than $300... people are willing to pay... if the product does what they want...
 
#110 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone /forum/post/21490614


I saw that, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. We don't know enough about the device yet, but if it's not just an extender and is a streamer as well (outside the Extender experience), that's a whole another story. If it's just an Extender....I fail to see how they can add anything that Microsoft's licensing does not allow.

It's clear from looking at the current WMC extenders the the extender protocol can support extenders with different codec capabilities (some extenders can't do H.264 for example). So that's an open question in my mind, is it the protocol that's limiting the 360 to crappy media support or is it just the 360's extender software.


Just as a matter of "logic" being an engineer type, it would make little sense for me for MS to have developed an extender protocol with artificial limitations on codecs and containers. It seem more likely that it's just that the 360's extender software sucks.


But it's wait and see at this point. I take Eric at his word that the Echo will support more formats than the 360 does. However after reading and watching the Engadget interview with Ceton, I'm somewhat lest optimistic about the Echo because it seems more likely that it will only support features beyond the 360 when used with the Q, which is a non-starter for me being a Dish subscriber.
 
#111 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dheiskel /forum/post/21489905


In case ceton is watching this thread, It would be great if the extender allows for IP control. The extender WILL be installed where av control systems will be used to control it, so allowing for IP control would make the integration easier and tighter. Microsoft would NEVER implement such a feature, but such a feature is one of the reasons DUNE is considered by many, the best media player!

+1 to that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dheiskel /forum/post/21489905


Also some status feedback over the ip control would be nice. As far as I know there is no reliable method to get status for extenders, there are bugs in the existing media center front panel support that makes the status unreliable for extenders, and microsoft has indicated they have no interest in fixing the bugs.

-1 for this...

"Some" just isn't good enough...

I already have complete feedback, I can ask my extenders what they are doing, what title they are playing, etc...

I can also ask the server what it is recording, what is coming up for recording, whats on the guide, etc...

I want complete full coverage feedback...
 
#113 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 /forum/post/21491677



But it's wait and see at this point. I take Eric at his word that the Echo will support more formats than the 360 does. However after reading and watching the Engadget interview with Ceton, I'm somewhat lest optimistic about the Echo because it seems more likely that it will only support features beyond the 360 when used with the Q, which is a non-starter for me being a Dish subscriber.

But if the Q supports USB tuners such as the HD-PVR, you can switch to it. There's a lot of stuff that is unknown at this point.
 
#114 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge /forum/post/21491734


Does anyone know if the extenders will have built in wireless? I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere.

Wireless is not a good idea for live TV streaming (never work well). The added cost of dual-band wi-fi is what killed all the original extenders.


Echo comes with ethernet port and MOCA support. That's perfect combination for anyone who wants to watch TV on it.
 
#115 ·
So ceton says this product will be limited if not paired with a Q? If this holds up that seems like an issue for me. Plenty of us here already have a ceton or other device in place. If they want to force us to get the Q to have all the features on the echo I will probably pass.
 
#117 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit /forum/post/21491775


But if the Q supports USB tuners such as the HD-PVR, you can switch to it. There's a lot of stuff that is unknown at this point.

I don't know if it was this thread or the InfiniTV one, but IIRC Eric implied that the Q would not because such configuration would be too difficult, would increase the complexity beyond what they are going for.
 
#118 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost /forum/post/21491653


you obviously have never experienced the joys of a unified UI/user experience...

most of us who have will never voluntarily go back to using X on TV, Y from HTPC, etc...

My experience with that is that usually suck. I used whatever is the best for that particular function.


Quote:
define fail?

if it does at least what the Sage HD300 did, plus adds DRM'd CC streaming $299 would be a very reasonable price...

Never heard, nor saw the Sage HD300 in any stores. That's the definition of fail.

Quote:
for example Sage HD300's went for $150 new, even though sage got gobbled up by google and has been a dead product for almost a year, there hasn't been a single HD300 sold on ebay for less than $300... people are willing to pay... if the product does what they want...

That means nothing. Ppl are still willing to pay $200+ for a used Linksys or Dlink MCE Extender on eBay. That doesn't mean those products are successful.


In order for a product to be successful, it has to attract mass audience, not just a few geeks.
 
#119 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 /forum/post/21491850


So ceton says this product will be limited if not paired with a Q? If this holds up that seems like an issue for me. Plenty of us here already have a ceton or other device in place. If they want to force us to get the Q to have all the features on the echo I will probably pass.

From what I understood, it would only be limited in things ceton itself is developing - for example the universal search they mentioned. I'm sure the echo as a standalone will work just like every other extender(with hopefully better format support). And once XBMC/Plex/MB or whatever you use can be added to it, sign me up!
 
#120 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 /forum/post/21491991


I don't know if it was this thread or the InfiniTV one, but IIRC Eric implied that the Q would not because such configuration would be too difficult, would increase the complexity beyond what they are going for.

I thought there is another thread specifically for Q. But anyway, Q is an embedded device, not an open platform like HTPC. It will only work the way it is designed to be. In many ways consider it just like TiVo or DVR box from your cable co. You maybe able to swap out the hard disk but that's about all you can do with it.
 
#121 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 /forum/post/21491991


I don't know if it was this thread or the InfiniTV one, but IIRC Eric implied that the Q would not because such configuration would be too difficult, would increase the complexity beyond what they are going for.

If the Q can support a USB tuner or a network tuner, such as the Silicon Dust ATSC tuners then you can probably replace a server PC with the Q, as the Q will have eSATA and USB 3.0.


Will the Ceton tuners get ATSC support? That would make it much easier to replace a PC.


Can the Q move recorded shows to the external drives?


As long as the Echo can support high quality DVD and BD rips (folder structure, ISO, MKV) then it will have a major advantage over the Xbox 360, as the rips will most likely have to be transcoded to a native Xbox 360 format, unless you store them as wmv.


Someone mentioned the Dune player..........awesome format support. But as far as I know it, the Dune does not support live TV. I think it can stream recorded TV? So, as long as the Echo supports the "important" formats, but not necessarily all of them, then it should have it over the Dune due to the TV support. And the Echo doing all of this through the WMC UI.
 
#122 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 /forum/post/21492101


Never heard, nor saw the Sage HD300 in any stores. That's the definition of fail.

In order for a product to be successful, it has to attract mass audience, not just a few geeks.[/quote]


You have a very narrow view of success, one that I think a lot of people would disagree with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory /forum/post/21492211


If the Q can support a USB tuner or a network tuner, such as the Silicon Dust ATSC tuners then you can probably replace a server PC with the Q, as the Q will have eSATA and USB 3.0.


Will the Ceton tuners get ATSC support? That would make it much easier to replace a PC.

ATSC doesn't do me any good, well OK, I need that too, but without HD PVR or Collossus (or some other HD Component/HDMI capture device) the Q will not work for me. And if the Echo requires the Q for it's advanced format support it will not work for me either.
 
#123 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 /forum/post/21492258


ATSC doesn't do me any good, well OK, I need that too, but without HD PVR or Collossus (or some other HD Component/HDMI capture device) the Q will not work for me. And if the Echo requires the Q for it's advanced format support it will not work for me either.

At this point I'm in a good position, because I don't have any type of set-up. I have been researching a build for a server type PC, which will use the Ceton PCIe cablecard tuner and an ATSC tuner (probably Silicon Dust). I was going to use Xbox 360's as the extenders for multiple rooms, but I am not happy with the format support for DVD and BD rips.


Because of the lackluster support I was going to build an Intel i5-2500k based PC to get good on-the-fly transcoding performance to wmv for the Xbox's. I could store the rips as wmv, but don't want to because in the theater room I was going to get a Dune for the better quality from the native ripped format.


Now, if the Q can provide both, cable TV and ATSC OTA and if the Echo can give good format support then possibly I would not need the server PC or at least I could get by with an i3 based PC, because I would not need to transcode.


Now..........I just have to wait before I start any kind of build!
 
#124 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 /forum/post/21484557


1) Will this be able to record analog cable channels? Or is it digital only? By MSO still has a handful of channels that are only available via analog so, unfortunately, analog is still a requirement for me.

It's unlikely that the integrated tuner in the Q will support analog. There is a possibility (I am not promising) that you may be able to add your own tuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey711 /forum/post/21485368


Any assurances on the longetivity of the hard drive - i.e. that commercial-grade HD's are used versus consumer models that are more prone to failure - would be helpful. Or at very least, to understand the basic lifespan to expect from the single drive and, subsequently, the buyer's ability to install their own.


Also, one big functional hangup with the Movi setup was that the extenders could not interact with the main DVR, i.e. set up recordings, manage priorities, etc. and simply became "dumb" extenders.

Re: Hard drive: We will use a hard drive which is designed to be used in applications such as this. You should expect a similar MTBF to TiVo, Moxi and other STB


WMC Extenders give you a relatively full-featured experience (Guide, scheduling, etc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 /forum/post/21491850


So ceton says this product will be limited if not paired with a Q? If this holds up that seems like an issue for me. Plenty of us here already have a ceton or other device in place. If they want to force us to get the Q to have all the features on the echo I will probably pass.

At a bare minimum, it will have the same functionality as an Xbox on a plain WMC box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dheiskel /forum/post/21489905


In case ceton is watching this thread, It would be great if the extender allows for IP control. The extender WILL be installed where av control systems will be used to control it, so allowing for IP control would make the integration easier and tighter. Microsoft would NEVER implement such a feature, but such a feature is one of the reasons DUNE is considered by many, the best media player!


Also some status feedback over the ip control would be nice. As far as I know there is no reliable method to get status for extenders, there are bugs in the existing media center front panel support that makes the status unreliable for extenders, and microsoft has indicated they have no interest in fixing the bugs.

I can't make any promises, but we understand the concerns associated with control systems
 
#126 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz /forum/post/21492777


It's unlikely that the integrated tuner in the Q will support analog. There is a possibility (I am not promising) that you may be able to add your own tuner

Hi Eric,


Are there plans for the integrated tuner in the Q to support ATSC over-the air and if so, how many tuners?


Thanks,

Greg
 
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