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2012 Sharp LED Anticipation Thread

9K views 44 replies 26 participants last post by  rogo 
#1 ·
Sharp LED


Not a lot of info on the net about these yet. We did talk in great detail with our Sharp rep though. More info >>> ( Click Here )



Sharp LC-46LE540U

Sharp LC-42LE540U


Sharp LC-52LE640U

Sharp LC-60LE640U

Sharp LC-70LE640U



Sharp LC-60LE745U

Sharp LC-70LE745U


Sharp LC-60LE847u

Sharp LC-70LE847u


Sharp LC-80LE844U


Sharp LC-60LE945u ( Elite HDR chip will be used we are told )

Sharp LC-70LE945u ( Elite HDR chip will be used we are told )


90" unit will release in the summer. More info to come of course
 
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#27 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck /forum/post/21539811


It is worse than that as it is not based on simple economic calculations like the one above. It is based on the question: how I can keep my market share (=volumes)? This leads to selling below reasonable economics and subsidizing in hope others will die earlier. Sony made losses on TV business for eight ys before giving up.


Sharp is brilliant in the supersized segment but this is small market and so it is not clear it is sustainable. It looks clear though they can run in this segment because they used amortized plants. It would be impossible to include full plant investment in prices to make big displays only.

Keeping market share and Sharp going huge size contradicts one another. Go figure



In the real world, businesses don't close production because it is loss making THIS YEAR. They close because they figured they can never turn profitable in the FUTURE. The HDD market is an interesting study into the dynamics of why even oligopolies lose money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck /forum/post/21539811


Only those like Samsung and LG survive due to the fact they are integrated conglomerates which start from digging iron ore to make digging machines which dig sand which is used for making silicon and up to the finished product so they can crosssubsidizing and likely have hidden public support.

You need to understand these 2 companies better is all I can say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karlmalone1 /forum/post/21536946


While I agree that there's a much bigger profit margin on the larger tvs, how would they lose money on the smaller ones? It may not be worth their time for the small profits they would gain, but I would imagine it would be slight profits nonetheless. It doesn't cost much for a company like sharp to produce a 50" tv.

Sharp is already losing money on their 60" non-quattrons. 60" non quattrons that are sold to 3rd parties will likely phase off in the next 3 years and 8G capacity replaced by iPads and huge size TV. Not sure if 8G will do 4k panels though.


I don't follow Sharp models closely but I suspect the 60" models above are mostly quattron panels.
 
#28 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo /forum/post/21536741


Disagree all you want. They do, in fact, lose money on the smaller sizes. As Irkuck points out, there is no certainty in the bigger sizes, but the differences there are clear.


60" -- Sharp has dominant market share

70" -- Sharp has 100% market share (and will maintain 95%+ for the foreseeable future)

80" -- Sharp has 100% market share

90" -- Sharp will have 100% market share


They are not walking away from smaller TVs because they don't like people with small rooms. They are taking the production facilities that made the smaller sets are re-purposing them to make tablet screens (although rumor suggest they are going to miss out on the first wave of iPad3 production, don't assume that's forever) and things like 80" and 90" displays. Those are made using the capacity that once made 4 40" or 4 46" sets.

A bigger question would be is there enough of a market to make the larger panels profitable enough to sustain a company who is struggling at the more mainstream size market? Does anyone have any real numbers as to the breakdown of the volume of sales for the listed sizes, 40", 47", 50", 55", 60" 65", 70" and 80"? I'm not all that convinced a company can live off of 70" and 80" sales.
 
#29 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTguru3 /forum/post/21541371


A bigger question would be is there enough of a market to make the larger panels profitable enough to sustain a company who is struggling at the more mainstream size market?
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor /forum/post/21541284


Keeping market share and Sharp going huge size contradicts one another. Go figure

Sharp may count only on their 100% market share in the supersized segment. Is this enough to be profitable is difficult to say. From the traditional LCD mass-manufacturing point it is impossible but maybe Sharp made something to make it possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor /forum/post/21541284


In the real world, businesses don't close production because it is loss making THIS YEAR. They close because they figured they can never turn profitable in the FUTURE. The HDD market is an interesting study into the dynamics of why even oligopolies lose money.

So Sony took 8 ys of losses before figuring this out.
 
#30 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTguru3 /forum/post/21541371


A bigger question would be is there enough of a market to make the larger panels profitable enough to sustain a company who is struggling at the more mainstream size market? Does anyone have any real numbers as to the breakdown of the volume of sales for the listed sizes, 40", 47", 50", 55", 60" 65", 70" and 80"? I'm not all that convinced a company can live off of 70" and 80" sales.

So far, the 70"+ market represents about 0.1%-0.2% of the total TV market. Very, very approximately (although Sharp told us enough publicly I'm confident the number is correct "enough"), Sharp sold 250K-400K 70"+ TVs last years on a global market of about 240 million sets.


They also dominated in the 60" category, which is much larger overall -- use 10x as large for an approximation with a decently large error margin. It's worth noting that they have absolutely no competition at 70" and relatively little at 60" (there are Panasonics in the market to be sure, but LG and Samsung actually make very, very few 60" panels because -- again -- they are limited to an 8G LCD fab).


It is nearly impossible to justify anyone building a 10G LCD at this point, which puts Sharp in a unique position. They are the only folks who can realistically benefit from any shift toward larger sizes (Panasonic can, too, but is currently limited to 60s and 65s and is in full on retrenchment/schizophrenia mode with their strategy right now). Sharp, instead of price gouging there, is using moderate retail pricing to boost the size of the markets it dominates. It's pretty sound strategy.


Is this a profit-making engine of sufficient size that Sharp can solely exist in TVs up there? I really don't know. But I imagine they can grow their market segment a good 20-40% per year from here (revenue basis) for at least a few years. To be honest, wasting time trying to sell 46" TVs against Samsung would not realistically help them in this endeavor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck /forum/post/21541600


Sharp may count only on their 100% market share in the supersized segment. Is this enough to be profitable is difficult to say. From the traditional LCD mass-manufacturing point it is impossible but maybe Sharp made something to make it possible.

The capacity of Sakai is ~5 million 70" displays (72,000 substrates per month) or ~6.5 million 60". The more of one size, the less of the other. They basically did less than 1/4 of what the plant is capable of last year, according to their own statements about how many displays they shipped.


So the questions are (a) did this make them any money? (b) how much growth do they need -- and how soon -- to make this worthwhile to continue? (c) is there enough demand to take the 70" market up from, say, 300K, to 1 million over the next 3-4 years? Legitimate concerns.
Quote:
So Sony took 8 ys of losses before figuring this out.

I'm not sure they've figured it out yet. They are still focused on wrapping their brand around other people's panels. This has not yielded a profit for a single company in the HD era.
 
#31 ·
I assume irkuck haven't been following Stringer
Weirder things happen when management keep "hoping" rather than cut loss. See Kodak. The corollary is to see how drastic panny is cutting their loss.


I think Sharp is likely to be profitable on PnL basis for displays in FY2013 end March. I assume you think otherwise.
 
#32 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo /forum/post/21538080


Edge-lit will most serve to increase the margins on those sets. If they have solved the uniformity issues that plague edge-lit sets, I'll be pleasantly surprised.


Keep in mind, the 2011 70" models (non-Elite) didn't have perfect uniformity either, despite being backlit.

The backlit so called units have all the issue's edge lit units have except for flash lighting. They have been out for more than a couple years, the problems would be fixed if they could be by now. I would say " It is, what it is ".
 
#36 ·
I was at BBuy today and saw the 60' 640. Picture was in standard mode and I saw absolutely no flashlighting or clouding. I then put it in torch mode and ........nada! I was amazed there was no issues with flashlighting or clouding like last years model. Also there was a sony 55nz720 on the side and also was in torch mode. That tv's viewing angle is horrible compared to this sharp. It immediately got washed out but this sharp's viewing angle is ages better. IMHO this sharp is a great budget 60 tv. Oh and the sound was improved compare to last years.
 
#37 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura /forum/post/21572490


If the 70" 945 series "Elite Lite" is due in summer, when would sharp normally set the MSRP? Late spring?

Yep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bslep /forum/post/21719513


Are you still standing by the 90" release for this summer? Any thoughts on an MSRP?

No new info, MSRP about 10K, sell for about 25% off on the street, that is a pure guess.........
 
#41 ·
Link to the 70, 60, and 52 inch 640U and 6400U series operation manual. Have yet to see a review of this item or pictures of the panel in a real world environment - might head over to Costco to see the LC-70LE6400u. I see that the major differences between the 6400U and the 640U are AquoMotion 240 for the 6400U. Looks like the price is the same for either 70 inch panel at this time. Neither are Quattron panels at this price point. There is now a dedicated Netflix button on the remote, the SmartCentral apps look better, edge lit (hope that eliminates clouding issues), and both sets are lighter than the 632 series - 86 lbs with the TV and stand, 79.4 lbs without the stand.

http://files.sharp.ca/Downloads/ForH..._LE640U_OM.pdf
 
#43 ·

Link to the 70, 60, and 52 inch 640U and 6400U series operation manual. Have yet to see a review of this item or pictures of the panel in a real world environment - might head over to Costco to see the LC-70LE6400u. I see that the major differences between the 6400U and the 640U are AquoMotion 240 for the 6400U. Looks like the price is the same for either 70 inch panel at this time. Neither are Quattron panels at this price point. There is now a dedicated Netflix button on the remote, the SmartCentral apps look better, edge lit (hope that eliminates clouding issues), and both sets are lighter than the 632 series - 86 lbs with the TV and stand, 79.4 lbs without the stand.


Last year 60 and 70 inch 632 series had a dynamic contrast ration of 6,000,000 to one. this years 60 and 70 inch 640 series have a 4,000.ooo to one. Any thoughts about this? (picture quality, sharpness effects?)
 
#42 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma /forum/post/21722085


Yep.


No new info, MSRP about 10K, sell for about 25% off on the street, that is a pure guess.........

Thanks Chris. Sure hope you're wrong on the MSRP, though. Even a $7,500 street price will make me look at the 80" instead. An extra ten inches isn't worth $3,500 - $4,000 to me.
 
#44 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma /forum/post/0


Yep.


No new info, MSRP about 10K, sell for about 25% off on the street, that is a pure guess.........

Ouch. I was hoping for about $5500 street... After going to a theater for the first time since 2004, and coming home to my 70" it felt TINY.


I was hoping that the 90" would have been only about double the cost of my 70"
 
#45 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ordo /forum/post/21757183


Last year 60 and 70 inch 632 series had a dynamic contrast ration of 6,000,000 to one. this years 60 and 70 inch 640 series have a 4,000.ooo to one. Any thoughts about this? (picture quality, sharpness effects?)

My thoughts are you should ignore every single quoted spec-sheet "dynamic contrast" number. They are entirely useless.
 
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