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544K views 3K replies 221 participants last post by  damelon 
#1 · (Edited)
Black/Red Theater (Yes it was named something else before)
Construction by BIGmouthinDC and Damelon (Construction Time: 7/26/11 - Mid November 2011)
Inspiration from Sandman's/SMX Theater - Acoustical Plans by Bryan Pape (BPape)

Room Details (Trying to make this a table!)
Initial Space : 23’6”L x 16’4”W x 8’9”H
Wall Construction : Room in a Room. Second wall with 1” gap.
Space after Secondary Wall : 22’8”L x 15’4”W x 8’9”H
Wall Decoupling Method : RISC-DC04 Clips
Ceiling Decoupling Method : Clip & Channel
Drywall Method : 2 Layers of 5/8” Drywall with Green Glue
Door : 28” Wide, 1 ¾” Thick solid core door.
Soffit Size : 16” Wide x 10” Tall
Column Info : 6 Columns, 16” Wide x 10” Deep
Screen Size : 130” Wide (149" diag) SeymourAV Centerstage XD with horizontal masking panels
Stage Specs : 2x10s, Sand Filled, Double ¾” Plywood with Felt
Riser Specs : 2x12s, Insulation Filled, Double ¾” Plywood with Felt
Front Wall Treatment : 2” 3lb Dense Cotton – OC703 Corner Bass Traps
Side Wall Treatments : 1” 3lb Dense Cotton
Rear Wall Treatments : 2” OC703 with Paper Face + 2” air gap
Fabric Colors : GOM Black and GOM Claret Accent.
Paint Color : Behr (Home Depot) Antique Ruby (To Match Fabric)
Viewing Distances : 12’ Front Row, 18’ Rear Row (Approx)
Projector : JVC RS540 E-Shift 4K
Speakers : 3x Axiom M80 L/C/R, 4x Axiom QS8 Surrounds
Subwoofers : 2x Seaton Submersive HP+ (Master & Slave)
Amp : Sunfire TGA7400
Preamp : Denon X4500H (Previously Onkyo PR-SC5508)
HTPC : 50TB Unraid NAS & HTPC using Kodi with RTX2060
Carpet : Stainmaster "Silver Lake" (Lowes)

ALL PHOTOS CAN BE VIEWED IN THE ALBUM LINK BELOW.
BR Theater Build Album

Link to my complete cost breakdown of the theater, along with several links of where I acquired products
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post21138019

Original Acoustical Plan design (See above for treatment variance on side/rear walls)
Acoustical Plan

Original Completed Photos - Theater (Scope Screen)




Theater Screen Conversion (to 16:9) & Star Ceiling Addition - 2015



 

Pool Information:
Size : (31,000 Gallons) about 42 feet long and 16-20 feet wide depending on location.
Retaining Wall Stone is Sequoia Rustic Ledge from El Dorado Stone
Pool Automation Equipment - Jandy Aqualink
Pool Lights : Hayward Colorlogic
Pool Pumps : Jandy
Pool Heater : Raypak 400k BTU Propane 

Beginning of Patio Project - End Phase 1 - Spring 2013 (Under-Deck, Bar/Grill, and Hot Tub Area)





End of Patio Project - Summer 2016
WINNER : 1st place / Cast-in-Place, Stamped / Under 5,000 SF Category from American Society of Concrete Contractors 2016




Basement Bar Project. Completed July, 2014


 
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#1,122 ·
Amazing how expensive some hinges can be.


So if I have a thick wall and a thicker than normal door... I want it to be "flush" on the outside of the room and open into the theater, these types of hinges will still work, right? Your picture shows the door opening towards the camera, but also flush on this side. I would like it flush on the other side...


Just thought that I would ask before I drop a chunk of change on door hinges.
 
#1,123 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol /forum/post/21637232


Amazing how expensive some hinges can be.


So if I have a thick wall and a thicker than normal door... I want it to be "flush" on the outside of the room and open into the theater, these types of hinges will still work, right? Your picture shows the door opening towards the camera, but also flush on this side. I would like it flush on the other side...


Just thought that I would ask before I drop a chunk of change on door hinges.

The picture above is a great example. You see the hinge sticks out that extra inch because we planned on making the wall an extra inch deeper. In this case the door is flush with the wall.


The door can't be flush on the other side and open inwards if that is what you are asking. (At least not with any normal hinge) Think about how the door-jam is made. It has trim in the center where the door rests against, and there is a mitred in section on the side where the hinge goes in, which always goes to the outside edge. This is so the actual hinge portion always rests outside of the doorjam. Yes, there are doors at places that swing both ways, but they dont use hinges usually. They are on a swivel-pin.


It can be flush on the other side and open outwards. The depth of the hinge matters based on the thickness of the door. Since we were adding another inch of material, we wanted the hinge point to be an inch into the room rather than at the actual doorjam, which is the standard hinge. Bigger hinges are uncommon, like thicker doorknobs, because 99% of the time there is no need for them.


I went back to the materials list and added the links to the doorknob and hinge I purchased by the way
 
#1,124 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon /forum/post/21627614


Except with the back wall. We put 2" furing strips on the back wall and then used to liquid nails/finish nails through the panel into the strips.


On the 1" panels (Sidewalls) we did this directly to the drywall.


The 2" panels presented more of a challenge with the nails we used due to the thickness of the panel frames.

I am sort of surprised the nails into the drywall really do anything. I guess maybe they just keep things in place long enough for the glue to dry and then ultimately it is the liquid nails keeping things in place.


Also good to know about the nails into the strips. I feel the need to reach out the Bryan
 
#1,125 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits /forum/post/21638184


I am sort of surprised the nails into the drywall really do anything. I guess maybe they just keep things in place long enough for the glue to dry and then ultimately it is the liquid nails keeping things in place.

That's pretty much it, yes. Keep in mind, the only purpose is a way to connect sound panels in place. Not to make them permanent. The nails themselves would easily get pulled out with minimal effort. The liquid nails though together with them keeps them well in place. Not to mention the panels are floor to ceiling, which means vertically they all have the support of the panels below them.


If they were just in the middle of the wall all by themselves, we wouldn't have done it that way, they would have required more support.
 
#1,127 ·
As far as the panels on the side, you said that only the bottom 5' are treated, so the top panels are just basic fabric frames to allow reflection, is that right?


Was that a bpape solution recommendation? I know many often do full treatment, so I wonder what the overall difference is.
 
#1,128 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits /forum/post/21638267


For the frames, did you guys layer half inch lumber to get the 1 and 2 inch thicknesses? If I may ask, why? As opposed to just using lumber of that thickness?

Primarily because there is no lumber with this exact thickness. You can get plywood up to 3/4" usually, and dimensional lumber (like 2x2s) is not the width it says it is. It is always smaller. Also, we tested the rigidness of single piece lumber. We could cut plywood to the exact width we wanted, and it was much more rigid and strong than MDF when it came to a thin strip and tight fabric being pulled over it. We didn't want it to bend like a bow.
 
#1,129 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits /forum/post/21638184


I am sort of surprised the nails into the drywall really do anything.




ceiling molding is just nails, nothing has come loose after 6+ years.
 
#1,130 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon /forum/post/21638285


Primarily because there is no lumber with this exact thickness. You can get plywood up to 3/4" usually, and dimensional lumber (like 2x2s) is not the width it says it is. It is always smaller. Also, we tested the rigidness of single piece lumber. We could cut plywood to the exact width we wanted, and it was much more rigid and strong than MDF when it came to a thin strip and tight fabric being pulled over it. We didn't want it to bend like a bow.

ah, makes sense...I gues I forgot 2x4s are not really 2x4, so buying in 1/2" thickness, it is much easier.
 
#1,131 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits /forum/post/21638279


As far as the panels on the side, you said that only the bottom 5' are treated, so the top panels are just basic fabric frames to allow reflection, is that right?


Was that a bpape solution recommendation? I know many often do full treatment, so I wonder what the overall difference is.

Partially true. Only the bottom 5' of the panels along the riser (behind the rear side columns) are treated. In front 2/3 of the sides are floor-to-ceiling treated. The reason for the small gap of untreated area behind the panels in the rear is to allow some reflections from the rear speakers. It makes that area a little more "live".
 
#1,132 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC /forum/post/21638288


ceiling molding is just nails, nothing has come loose after 6+ years.

If it was just moulding, sure. But a full panel filled with cotton padding is just a bit heavier, not to mention a single piece!



Every time I see your theater BIG, I think of that secret door on your column where your rack is and get so jealous. I love hidden doors.
 
#1,134 ·
I've used long finishing nails (in my air nailer) to hold somewhat lightweight items to drywall before and never had issues. I always fired them in at an angle so that it wasn't as easy for something to work loose over time by simply starting the slide straight down or out.


Something like what is in the above picture, I would have used a couple on each side of the "frames" and either nailed them all inward towards the center, or outward away from the center. That way the nails on one side are prevent the nails on the opposite side from moving.
 
#1,137 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC /forum/post/21066085

HOW I SPENT THE MORNING


I figure we will need about 200 strips of 1 1/2 x 1/2 inch plywood to make D's fabric frames.

At 30 a sheet that means 7 sheets ripped. First I had Lowe's rip them in half for convenience.


Then on with it




This here is brilliant. As I perused the aisles at Lowes last night, I was not finding the 1/2" long pieces I would use for a frame. The only ones I found were the little 2 footers and everything else was like 1" thick.


I guess now I know, that what I really need is 1/2" thick plywood and then cut that down to 1-1/2" wide pieces...


then, cut to the appropriate lengths and then what, how do you secure the 4 pieces together, in order to get the 2" thick frame, just wood glue, stack and a few finish nails?


Lastly, what is the best method for securing the 4 frame members? Do you cut them at an angle at the ends to connect or do you secure them on the square(?) ?
 
#1,138 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits /forum/post/21655264


This here is brilliant. As I perused the aisles at Lowes last night, I was not finding the 1/2" long pieces I would use for a frame. The only ones I found were the little 2 footers and everything else was like 1" thick.


I guess now I know, that what I really need is 1/2" thick plywood and then cut that down to 1-1/2" wide pieces...


then, cut to the appropriate lengths and then what, how do you secure the 4 pieces together, in order to get the 2" thick frame, just wood glue, stack and a few finish nails?


Lastly, what is the best method for securing the 4 frame members? Do you cut them at an angle at the ends to connect or do you secure them on the square(?) ?

To be honest I don't remember if we used staples or not on the junctions or not, but it IS a lot of glue.


Don't use angles! You want to do it square, and on top of that, alternate the lengths so they overlap.


Say your total frame is 4' by 2'. All of your strips are 1 1/2" wide and 1/2" thick.


First lay down 2 strips which are 4' long. Then two that are 1' 9" long between them, making a square.


Cover them all with glue.


Then your next layer would have 2 pieces which are 3' 9" long, and 2 pieces which are 2' long.


Press them together.


Then there are 8 different places where pieces join (per layer) in your whole frame, but all 8 of them are in different places than the other layer.


Once you have them together and the glue has dried you can run them through a router to put angles on them.
 
#1,139 ·
A lot of people say making full wood frames are a waste of time these days since you can just buy those plastic tracks/channel which the fabric just gets wedged into, and those are much easier. That may be true, but we went with the wood frames anyway. The pictures I had seen of the plastic fabric track just didn't convince me they would work the way I wanted, even though they use them commercially.
 
#1,140 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon /forum/post/21655357


A lot of people say making full wood frames are a waste of time these days since you can just buy those plastic tracks/channel which the fabric just gets wedged into, and those are much easier. That may be true, but we went with the wood frames anyway. The pictures I had seen of the plastic fabric track just didn't convince me they would work the way I wanted, even though they use them commercially.

And when you factor in the pricing on the tracks, building wood frames becomes a much more attractive option...
 
#1,141 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji /forum/post/21655452


And when you factor in the pricing on the tracks, building wood frames becomes a much more attractive option...

even the economy panels at fabricmate are 70 bucks. Sure manufacturing my ow panels will take way longer, but it I am sure it is also was more fun and in the end more sturdy


When gluing the layers, did you guys do any clamping?


Do you wait for them to dry between layers?


I assume the key if I do fire a finish nail through the layers is to put it in a spot I wont hit with the saw...
 
#1,143 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits /forum/post/21655264


Lastly, what is the best method for securing the 4 frame members? Do you cut them at an angle at the ends to connect or do you secure them on the square ?















Cut all you pieces 1 1/2 inches short of your desired finished panel dimensions then just overlap. I used 7/8 inch long 1/4 inch crown staples. The stapler in the picture went to the landfill, I spent more time clearing a jamb than stapling, The Rigid brand stapler has been jamb free.
 
#1,154 · (Edited)
Quote:Originally Posted by smakovits

Lastly, what is the best method for securing the 4 frame members? Do you cut them at an angle at the ends to connect or do you secure them on the square ?















Cut all you pieces 1 1/2 inches short of your desired finished panel dimensions then just overlap. I used 7/8 inch long 1/4 inch crown staples. The stapler in the picture went to the landfill, I spent more time clearing a jamb than stapling, The Rigid brand stapler has been jamb free.

I gots no router table, so it appears I have to go the "fun" route. Nothing like BIG getting me all nervous. I just got the table saw and now I am afraid to use the thing. Heck, the thing has yet to be turned on, all I did was put it together.

I guess another potential solution would be with the same jig that you use for assembly, but instead add a fence and then cut with a jigsaw or circular. It might just take longer so it may only be a good solution if you have a few frames.

The easiest solution is to hire BIG to do it with you! --HINT HINT--
Don't forget the meal that goes with the work either.
 
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