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The Cinemar Home Theater Construction Thread

973K views 3K replies 316 participants last post by  mcascio 
#1 · (Edited)

Electronic House 2013 Gold Award Winner
Best Home Theater $25,000 - $75,000
 
 

AVS Home Theater of the Month
 
 
SEATING
* FRONT ROW: 3 Curved Berkline 45003 Black Leather Motorized Recliners
* BACK ROW: 4 Curved Berkline 45003 Black Leather Motorized Recliners

SPEAKERS
* CENTER: M&K S-5000 THX
* FRONT LEFT/RIGHT: M&K S-5000 THX
* ATMOS TOP FRONT LEFT/RIGHT: M&K SS-150 THX
* ATMOS TOP REAR LEFT/RIGHT: M&K SS-150 THX
* SURROUND LEFT/RIGHT: M&K SS-150 THX
* BACK LEFT/RIGHT: M&K SS-150 THX
* SUB1: M&K MX-350 THX
* SUB2: HSU VTF-15H
* SUB 3 & 4: DIY Flat Pack Builds - Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18" Reference HO Subwoofer  4 Cubic Feet each

ROOM DIMENSIONS & MEASUREMENTS
* BEFORE WALLS: 27' Deep x 17'9" Wide (excludes theater foyer entryway)
* FINISHED ROOM AFTER SOUND PROOFING: 25'8" Deep x 16'9.5" Wide
* NOTES: The theater is being constructed in part of our unfinished basement. There is a 23" drop in the basement to allow for stadium seating.
* SHORTEST CEILING HEIGHT BEFORE CONSTRUCTION: 8'10"
* TALLEST CEILING HEIGHT BEFORE CONSTRUCTION in Drop Down area: 10'9"
* Front Row: 8'6" from Front of Seat to screen
* Back Row: 14'7" from Front of Seat to screen
* Projector: 16'2" from Lens to Screen
* Screen: 136" Wide 2.35
VIEWING DISTANCE TO BOTTOM OF SCREEN FROM CENTER FRONT ROW
* SEAT INCLINED: 10' 5 1/2"
* SEAT DECLINED: 11' 2"
 

EQUIPMENT
* RECEIVER: Denon X5200W, OLD: Denon AVR-4520CI (11.2), OLD: Onkyo NX-TR3008 (FOR SALE)
* AMP: Emotiva XPA-5 (Center, Front Left & Right, Side Surround Left & Right)
* AMP: Behringer EP4000 (2 Dayton Subs)
* AMP: (2) Dayton APA100 (Atmos Speakers Top Front & Top Rear inside Soffit)
* BLU-RAY PLAYER: Dune HD Max
* GAMING: PS3, (2) XBOX-360
* POWER CONDITIONER: Belkin PF60
* IMAGE PROCESSING: Darbee Darblet DVP5000
* STORAGE: Cinemar MLD-4000 12 TB Mass Storage Server
* PROJECTOR: Panasonic PT-AE8000U
* SCREEN: 136" Wide 2.35 AT Screen (Seymour AV)
* TABLET/iPAD/PHONE USER INTERFACE: Cinemar's MainLobby / MLServer / DVDLobby
* REMOTE CONTROL: Logitech Harmony 700
* LIGHTING CONTROL: Insteon via MainLobby
* THERMOSTAT CONTROL: Proliphix NT-20E Thermostat via MainLobby
* INTERCOM: Not sure yet - most likely go with Russound
 
CARPETING
* Masland Quadrate Times Square
 
FABRIC
* Red Walls - FR701 GOM Style 2100 (#418) Claret Accent Fabric
* Speaker Frames - FR701 GOM Style 2100 (#408) Black Fabric
* Top of Front Cabinet Below Screen & Sides of Vertical Front Cabinets Facing Screen - Protostar Self-Adhesive Flocked Light Trap Material
* Bordering Edges that the Seymour AV Screen sit's on - Black Triple Plush Velvet

SOUND PROOFING
The room above the theater is a nursery and office. One of the rooms next to the theater is a furnace room. So it's important to keep the sound out of the rooms above and prevent sound coming in from the furnace room.
Current plan of attack is to use two layers of 5/8" drywall and Green Glue with sound absorption clips. Staggered stud walls will be on any framed walls.
* Minimum 1-3/4" Solid Core Door with automatic door bottom.

PAINTED STAR CEILING
* Hand painted black light star ceiling painted by Night Sky Murals
 
VIRTUAL MOVIE POSTER
* A 40" LED TV mounted in Portrait displays the Cover Art of the currently movies along with statistics like: Number of Movies watched in theater, Minutes remaining of playing movies, movies coming soon, lbs of popcorn consumed, etc.  The user interface on the LED Movie Poster is powered by MainLobby.
 
BASS SHAKERS
Aura Pro Bass Shakers in Back Row (4 Chairs)

SOUND TREATMENT
Recycled Denim/ Titus EcoShield (1" x 4' x 50') (Bought from Vyron Corporation)

D-BOX MOTION PLATFORM
D-Box Motion Platform in Front Row (3 Chairs)


VIRTUAL (MATTERPORT) WALK-THROUGH OF CINEMAR HOME THEATER
https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=ur3p2q8Hk9r



UNFINISHED BASEMENT AREA


FINAL ATMOS SPEAKER PLACEMENT






MY ORIGINAL PROPOSED THEATER DESIGN (Top View)


MY ORIGINAL PROPOSED THEATER DESIGN (Side View)


LATEST THEATER DESIGN (Top View)


LATEST THEATER DESIGN (Side View - RESERVED)

LATEST THEATER DESIGN (3D View)







 
 
FABRICS, CARPET & PAINT INFORMATION

 
 
 
COMPOSITED 3D IMAGE WITH ACTUAL PHOTO [There is an angled divider.  The Left Upper Area is the actual photo, the right lower area is 3D]

 
FINAL ACTUAL PHOTO WITH NIGHT SKY MURAL STAR CEILING:

 
LED TV MOVIE POSTER DISPLAYS CURRENTLY PLAYING MOVIE AND ACTUAL START / END TIMES USING CINEMAR'S MAINLOBBY SOFTWARE

 
iPad Movie Selection using Cinemar Software. Also controls thermostat, lighting, projector, receiver and security.

 
THREAD INDEX
* 12.22.09 - Construction Thread Started
* 04.27.10 - Generac House Generator Installed
* 12.04.10 - Cleaned up 4 Miles of Cable in Media Rack
* 03.19.11 - Construction Lumber and Green Glue arrived, Reworked Sump Pump Area and Added Additional Breakers to Media Rack Closet
* 03.25.11 - 3D Renders of Rec Room Area outside Theater
* 03.27.11 - Framing of Interior Basement Walls Started
* 04.03.11 - Theater Framing Started, Foundation Injection Crack Repair Completed
* 04.16.11 - Illustration Showing Theater Construction using Whisper Clips, DC-04 Clips, Drywall and OSB
* 04.16.11 - Illustration Showing Theater Heating/Cooling Supply Sound Proofing
* 04.21.11 - 3D Wireframe Composite of Seats and Columns within Theater Shell
* 05.29.11 - Dead Vent Framed and Plumbing for Bar Sink Moved out of Theater
* 06.01.11 - Started Framing Soffits
* 06.04.11 - 3D Illustration of Clips and Channel Construction
* 06.06.11 - Started Framing Interior Theater Walls
* 06.08.11 - Raising the Sunken Concrete Floor Up
* 06.12.11 - Theater Room Wiring Diagram
* 06.12.11 - Suspended Sound Proofed Vent Muffler Diagram
* 06.15.11 - Started Construction of Vent Mufflers
* 06.19.11 - Ran Wiring for Speakers, Bass Shakers, Cat5 and Subs. Puddy Pads
* 06.23.11 - Can Light Backer Box Construction
* 06.23.11 - Initial Lighting Diagram
* 06.25.11 - Vent Muffler Installed using IB-3 Clips
* 06.26.11 - Corner Clamps, Acoustic Sealant, Network Thermostat Wired, R19 in Ceiling Started
* 06.29.11 - Speaker and Column Placement Diagram and Discussions
* 06.29.11 - Pipe Wrap on Vent Boots, IB-3 Clips on 2nd Vent Muffler, Instulating Vent Muffler
* 07.01.11 - 2nd Vent Muffler Installed into Soffit
* 07.01.11 - TIP: Whisper Clip Inside Corner Placement Diagram
* 07.03.11 - Hung Whisper Clips and Started Installed Hat Channel
* 07.05.11 - Sound Proofed Cold Air Return 1 and all Hat Channels Installed
* 07.07.11 - Sound Proofed Cold Air Return 2 - From the Inside of the Cold Air Return
* 07.11.11 - Tips and Tricks to hanging Whisper Clips and Hat Channels
* 07.13.11 - HVAC Items Completed: Dead Vent Inline Fan Installed and enclosed, Air Tubes installed for Vent Dampers and Arzel Zones
* 07.18.11 - Theater Insulation Nearly Complete, All Holes Caulkded and Puddy Pads on Light Gang Boxes
* 07.18.11 - Theater Foyer Sheet Rocked
* 07.31.11 - 5/8" OSB and Plywood installed on Ceiling
* 08.04.11 - 5/8" OSB Installed on Walls (First Layer)
* 08.06.11 - 5/8" Drywall and Green Glue Installed on Walls and Ceiling (Second Layer)
* 08.09.11 - Taping and Mudding Drywall Begins
* 08.10.11 - Gray Primer Applied to Drywall
* 08.12.11 - Our Newborn Arrives
* 08.13.11 - Cement Floor Cut up to Recess Electrical and Data Outlets for Back Row Seating
* 08.21.11 - Elk Security Panel Cleaned Up
* 08.22.11 - MainLobby User Interface for the Elk Security System
* 09.09.11 - Photos of Basement
* 09.21.11 - Patch Panel Cabinet Framed In and Bar Area Cabinets Installed
* 09.26.11 - 2x4x12's Added to Soffit and Stairway Platform Construction Begins
* 09.28.11 - First Row Riser Construction Started
* 09.28.11 - Granite Bar Top Installed
* 09.28.11 - DBox Alumninum Frame Assembled
* 10.04.11 - First Layer of 3/4" OSB Installed on First Row Platform
* 10.05.11 - Second Layer of 3/4" OSB Installed on First Row Platform
* 10.06.11 - Profile Illustration of Bar Construction Outside Theater
* 10.11.11 - Riser Step Framing Started
* 10.15.11 - Front Stage Framing Started
* 10.19.11 - Second Layer of 3/4" OSB Added to Front Stage and Steps
* 10.20.11 - Composite Image of Actual Photo at Stage of Construction with 3D Wireframe Render
* 10.22.11 - Filled Stage with Sand
* 10.24.11 - Composite Image of Actual Photo at Stage of Construction with 3D Render
* 10.24.11 - Insulated Areas of Front Stage and Side Steps
* 10.25.11 - Cutting OC703 and Corner Bass Traps Installed
* 10.26.11 - Projected Video onto Wall for estimating Appropriate Screen
* 10.26.11 - Nailed Two Layers of Recycled Denim to Screen Wall
* 10.27.11 - 3D Renders of Red Vs Black Soffit Underside
* 11.02.11 - Cut 16 Holes for 4" LED Can Lights
* 11.04.11 - First Coat of Benjamin Moore Starry Night Blue rolled onto Star Ceiling Area
* 11.11.11 - Can Light Housing Installed in Open Soffit
* 11.12.11 - Patch Panel Terminated
* 11.13.11 - Started 3/4" MDF Speaker Column
* 11.18.11 - Column Construnction Plans with Measurements
* 11.18.11 - Moulding Installed on Bar Cabinets
* 11.18.11 - Bar Plan with Measurements
* 11.18.11 - Rec Room Photos
* 11.21.11 - More Column Construction and Moulding
* 11.22.11 - Detailed Diagram of Mouldings and their Profiles used in the Theater
* 11.23.11 - Building a Removable Magnet Speaker Frame with Black GOM Fabric
* 12.12.11 - Spray Painting 4" LED Can Lights Black
* 12.14.11 - Installed 4" LED Can Lights
* 12.17.11 - Completed Removable Speaker Grill Frames
* 12.18.11 - Attaching Columns to the Wall
* 12.19.11 - Installing Gang Boxes for Data and Electric into Columns
* 12.26.11 - Started working on Oak Steps and Bull Nose
* 12.27.11 - Quick Tips on Cutting Curves with the Jig Saw
* 12.27.11 - Carpet VS Hard Wood on Stage Renders and Discussion
* 12.31.11 - Creating the Large Curved Bull Nose in front of the Front Row
* 01.03.12 - Started Cutting the Oak for the top of the Front Stage
* 01.08.12 - Adding 1/2" Base Shoe under Oak Steps and Bull Nose to create Rounded Underside Edge, Assembling the Front Stage Step
* 01.13.12 - Assembling the Top Front Oak Stage
* 01.16.12 - Using a Biscuit Joiner to Assemble the Front Oak Stage
* 01.21.12 - Started Attaching Lower Third 3/4" MDF Panels to Wall using Green Glue and Screws
* 01.22.12 - Finished Mounting all Columns
* 01.26.12 - Photo Comparison of Protostar, Sy Fabrics Black Plush Triple Velvet and Fidelio Velvet
* 01.29.12 - Routered Bull Nose with a 1/2" Round Over Bit on Front and 1/8" Round Over Bit on Back Side
* 02.01.12 - Started Building 45 Degree Front Corner Cabinet Frames
* 02.09.12 - Started Building Front Arched Cabinet Frame
* 02.15.12 - Notching the Divider Facers for the Front Cabinet Frame
* 02.18.12 - Front Center Cabinet Door Construction
* 02.20.12 - Composite Image of Actual Photo at Stage of Construction with 3D Render
* 02.22.12 - Front Corner Cabinet Doors Installed
* 02.23.12 - TIP: Assembling Bowed Boards during Cabinet Door Construction
* 02.27.12 - Added Base Cap Moulding to Cabinet Doors
* 03.04.12 - Magnetic Latches
* 03.11.12 - Creating a Sharped Seam Fabric Soffit
* 03.18.12 - Installed a Recessed Temperature Sensor
* 03.19.12 - Finished Sanding Bare MDF Column Edges down to 220 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/post/1470#post_21797382"
* 03.21.12 - Built Corner Pine Cap
* 03.22.12 - Applied MH Ready Patch to all joints and Screw Holes on Columns 
* 03.25.12 - Finished GG all lower wall MDF, Notched Bullnose for Baseboard, Final Installation of Bullnose Behind Front Row 
* 03.28.12 - Diagram with Dimensions Showing Construction of Bullnose and Stair Tread using Base Shoe 
* 03.31.12 - Diagram with Dimensions Showing Tall Column Construction
* 04.02.12 - Started Installing Crown Moulding around Perimeter of Room
* 04.03.12 - Coped an Inside Corner Crown Moulding
* 04.04.12 - Started Installing Chair Rail
* 04.05.12 - Composite Image of Actual Photo at Stage of Construction with 3D Render
* 04.07.12 - Started Column Trim Moulding, TIPS
* 04.09.12 - Started Installing Base Board
* 04.11.12 - Started Installing Panel Moulding
* 04.17.12 - Started Construction Fabric Panels
* 04.20.12 - Tips on Cutting GOM Fabric [Rotary Cutting Tool, Straigt Edge Clamp]
* 04.23.12 - Building a Fabric Frame around Receptacle Switches and Vents, Started Double Jamb Door Construction
* 04.27.12 - Installing Door Hinges and Door Lock
* 04.30.12 - Hanging Door and Double Jambs
* 05.04.12 - Built Patch Panel Door within a Fabric Frame
* 05.06.12 - Building Fabric Frames Surrounding Door Casing
* 05.07.12 - 3D Concepts of Potential Back Bar
* 05.08.12 - Assembling Moulding Frames for Columns using Framing Jig
* 05.14.12 - Started working on D-Box Platform top Using Two Layers of 3/4" Birch Plywood
* 05.17.12 - Built Recessed Access Panels for D-Box Actuators
* 05.22.12 - Started Installing GOM Fabric Under Soffit Light Tray
* 05.31.12 - Final Light Tray Moulding Diagram, Started Installing Soffit Mouldings
* 06.06.12 - Room Cleanup and then Started Priming the Room
* 06.07.12 - First Coat of Black Benjamin Moore Paint
* 06.17.12 - Installing Shelving Brackets for Speakers, Working on Theater Foyer Moulding, Stapled GOM Fabric to Cabinet Door
* 06.20.12 - Nearly Finished Painting
* 08.13.12 - Construction Completed
* 08.28.12 - LED TV Movie Poster Now Displays Start / End Time of Movie using MainLobby
* Working on Room Acoustics, Picture, Automation User Interface
* 11.05.13 - Dual Sealed DIY 18" Dayton Subwoofer Construction
* 11.05.13 - Dual Sealed DIY 18" Dayton Subwoofer Construction (External Thread)
* 01.13.14 - Aura Pro Bass Shaker install in Berkline Chair
 
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#1,327 ·
FWIW, I have previously used the services of a professional furnituremaker to make rips in my stock material on their super-expensive table saw. All I did was provide a cut list and they ran it through for $30 for about a 1/2 hour of work on their part. Everything was done perfectly and I didn't have to invest in a very expensive saw blade. I know you are trying to do this all yourself, but if you don't foresee using the blade ever again for another project, the total investment becomes pretty steep. Just a thought.
 
#1,328 ·
I made some temporary supports to see how I liked the height of the front cabinet and double check measurements with the computers. Doing so I caught an issue with one of my front corner cabinets. So I had to re-align it and level. I'm just glad I caught it now.


My plan is to build the cabinet free standing so I can slide it in / out for now. Then once complete I'll attach it to the 4x4 posts. I still need to treat the corner cabinet sides with some material. So keeping it free standing allows me to do that once I'm closer to the end. I fear I'd end up damaging the material otherwise during construction.




I thought I'd show I notched the divider for the front cabinets. I needed to make a 1.5" x 3/4" deep cut on one end and a 3/4" x 3/4" notch on the other. I started by routing the face of the boards that reveal into the room. Then made my cut marks.








Then I adjusted the depth stop on my miter saw and did a few practice cuts. It was easy to get it to a 3/4" depth though just by sliding a 3/4" board and butting the saw blade to it.






Then I proceeded to make small cuts from the end of the board towards my finished cut mark. I had to cut to size a small block that would push my 3/4" divider out to the middle of the blade so my cuts were even on both sides. The blade is round.





The finished product.




I initially had the 1x2 dividers with the thicker side facing the room just because I thought notching it with a jig saw would be too much work and not that accurate. This method worked much better and faster and allowed me to get the design I initially was going for.
 
#1,329 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio /forum/post/21648111


Sorry guys. I still need to respond to a few posts. It was a newer carbide blade. I'll have to check, but I thought it had 42 teeth and designed for crosscuts as well. Maybe that's the problem?


It was the most expensive blade but I don't think it was the cheapest either.


Is there a particular blade that should be used for ripping hard wood?


Like it's been suggested here though. If the need arises, I could just get close to my mark with the table saw...then use the flush trim router bit to get it where I really need it.

For ripping, you'd be better off with less than a 42 tooth blade. Somewhere around 24 or 30 would be better, and if you have a low HP saw, get it in a thin kerf blade.


Assuming you have a 10" table saw that uses 10" blades. Trying to stay affordable in a 10" blade, something like a Freud Diablo D1024X or a Bosch CB1024, would be a good choice.
 
#1,330 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla /forum/post/21648804


For ripping, you'd be better off with less than a 42 tooth blade. Somewhere around 24 or 30 would be better, and if you have a low HP saw, get it in a thin kerf blade.


Assuming you have a 10" table saw that uses 10" blades. Trying to stay affordable in a 10" blade, something like a Freud Diablo D1024X or a Bosch CB1024, would be a good choice.

Thanks for the great info.
 
#1,331 ·
Question for the pro's on the cabinet.


As you know, I'm using 1x2's in between the cabinet doors. I've noticed on the first board, there is a slight bend to it to the side. Can I clamp two boards on it before mounting and then screw it in to make sure it's straight? Or will the board return to it's normal bend after removing the clamps?


I'm only leaving 1/8" gap around the cabinets. So it doesn't take much to notice if something is off. I'm wondering if this is what a jointer would fix. It seems like you'd need to start with 1" material though and then you'd end up with a perfectly straight 3/4" piece?
 
#1,332 ·
Any time your joining two boards you want a nice straight true edge. I would think a gap would form over time. I recently built a couple 8 foot tall cabinets that had two adjoining face fames. There was a gap between both frames. I used a hand plane and was able to get a straight edge and a tight fit wham the cabinets were assembled. A jointers on my list of wants, but I seem to get by with the hand tools.
 
#1,333 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio /forum/post/21638507


I tried ripping just a small piece of maple down to 2". Maybe I have the wrong blade...but the blade just seems to bend as it starts going through the wood.


I wouldn't mind knowing how to solve this, but I think I'll try to work with the 2.5" rail and stiles just to save time and energy.

Hi Mario,


Continues to look incredible! Great craftsmanship.


I don't know what your saw is, but I'm assuming you're talking about some type of table saw since you later mentioned a 10" blade. In addition to the blade deflecting, another possibility is the trunnion or support mechanism underneath the table moving, either due to mechanical slop or just due to an undersized structure. With the saw off and unplugged, you might poke around inside it a bit to see if you can recreate any movement of the arbor that shouldn't be there.


I see that you have a nice DeWalt miter saw, so if you went with something of similar quality for your table saw, then you can probably ignore this comment. But if you picked up a saw from Harbor Freight or something... (Don't get me wrong, I love HF and buy stuff all the time there.) I guess in a nutshell, there is a huge spectrum of table saws out there.


HTH,

Bryan
 
#1,334 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla /forum/post/21648804


For ripping, you'd be better off with less than a 42 tooth blade. Somewhere around 24 or 30 would be better, and if you have a low HP saw, get it in a thin kerf blade.


Assuming you have a 10" table saw that uses 10" blades. Trying to stay affordable in a 10" blade, something like a Freud Diablo D1024X or a Bosch CB1024, would be a good choice.

No argument that fewer teeth are better for ripping, but my experience is that the main improvement would be perhaps slightly faster cutting with less burning of the cut edges. 42 teeth is not that bad for ripping, and I would think it to be a good general purpose blade. (Something like 80 teeth, for example, would definitely be too many to function as a decent ripping blade.)


I suspect there is something else going on and that your blade is not the biggest contributing factor to this problem (see my other post).


Bryan
 
#1,335 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio /forum/post/21650030


Question for the pro's on the cabinet.


As you know, I'm using 1x2's in between the cabinet doors. I've noticed on the first board, there is a slight bend to it to the side. Can I clamp two boards on it before mounting and then screw it in to make sure it's straight? Or will the board return to it's normal bend after removing the clamps?


I'm only leaving 1/8" gap around the cabinets. So it doesn't take much to notice if something is off. I'm wondering if this is what a jointer would fix. It seems like you'd need to start with 1" material though and then you'd end up with a perfectly straight 3/4" piece?

I'm no pro, but here's my two cents: What's typically done is that you start with rough-cut wood (4/4) which can be nearly an inch thick as rough milled. A face joint is made on the jointer to flatten any warp or twist, and then it's milled to final thickness in a planer. After that you joint one edge so that's perfectly straight before milling it to the final width.


As someone mentioned, a hand plane can certainly be used, but you'll need one with a fairly long bed in order to remove the curved edge. I think it was also suggested to use your router along with a known straight edge, which should work fine.


Without those big tools, you can sort through the material before you buy it to find straight stuff. Or you can buy S4S material (surfaced 4 sides).


To address your question about what happens after it's forced straight and mounted, I guess it depends upon what it's attached to. If the 2nd piece is much stronger (i.e. a large piece of plywood or a larger piece of straight wood), then it should remain straight. Glue and screws should be strong enough to hold a 1x2 permanently straight. However, the weaker the piece you're attaching it to, the more they will tend to find a compromised position, i.e. halfway between where each piece wants to be...


Bryan
 
#1,336 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowger /forum/post/21654558


No argument that fewer teeth are better for ripping, but my experience is that the main improvement would be perhaps slightly faster cutting with less burning of the cut edges. 42 teeth is not that bad for ripping, and I would think it to be a good general purpose blade. (Something like 80 teeth, for example, would definitely be too many to function as a decent ripping blade.)

Well for except for a few things.


Combination/general purpose blades are just that, they try to do everything, from ripping, crosscuts, cutting plywood/MDF etc, which they will do. But they do not give the best possible cut in all cases. They really don't excel at anything other than being a universal use blade.


Brand of blade can make a big difference. There are a lot of good blades to be found, but there are even more sub par blades. And even some that are just pure junk.


If the saw is not a real powerhouse as far as the motor HP goes. The use of thin kerf blade or not, can make a huge difference.


Blade is not as sharp as it could be, or once was.


Or as you mentioned, the saw itself may borderline as far as tolerances in one area or another, or it may be getting worn out a bit.


Besides numerous 7 1/4" circular saws & routers, jigsaws, as well as 10" and a 7 1/4" sliding miter saws. A 6" planer and a 12" thickness planer. I also have both a 10" table saw and a 10" radial arm saw, both of those have 3HP motors, so I really don't have a bogging down problem with either of them. But a blade change, to match up with the type of cut and also the material I'm cutting, sure can make a huge difference in the actual end quality of the cut. A really good ripping blade, can make a glue ready cut. I probably have about 15-20 different 10" blades for them, and also 2 different Dado blades. Yeah changing blades to another type takes a bit of time, but it also usually pays off big time with much better cuts.

http://www.freudtools.com/images/SB-Sel-3000x2164.jpg

http://www.justsawblades.com/systimatic/terminology.htm
 
#1,337 ·
I stacked the top and bottom of the front wall cabinet so I could rough mark where the 1x2 dividers will go. That will hopefully help keep me square and give me some to eye as I align the top and bottom.




Then I installed some corner supports. I wished I wouldn't have used the soft pine, but I had sitting there. I added some cleats to help keep the vertical 3/4" mdf supports square.



I used the Kreg drill bit to make these recessed screw holes.



Finally, I attached the top to the corner supports to get the two pieces aligned properly. The 4x4's are just temporary. I need to install the 1x2's first before I can add the 3/4" MDF supports behind them.
 
#1,338 ·
Regarding the not so straight 1x2's. I had an idea to move to 1x3's which seem to be a little more straighter. But I reviewed my 1x2 stock and picked up a couple more. I think I can stick with the 1x2's and just have a little more scrap. I was able to get two straight pieces from an 8' length. I moved a 2' straight along the length until I found the best area to cut from.


I'll be screwing into the maple, so I'll clamp some straight edges on each side of them as well before screwing them in to ensure they are straight.


Just for kicks though, I'm going to try running the crooked piece through the planar just to see how it turns out and use it as a learning experience.


Here's the table saw I borrowed from my brother. It's definitely on the lower end.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_167737-46922...7C1&facetInfo=


It seems like I can wiggle the blade a bit. Should the blade sit tight?
 
#1,339 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG /forum/post/21648133


FWIW, I have previously used the services of a professional furnituremaker to make rips in my stock material on their super-expensive table saw. All I did was provide a cut list and they ran it through for $30 for about a 1/2 hour of work on their part. Everything was done perfectly and I didn't have to invest in a very expensive saw blade. I know you are trying to do this all yourself, but if you don't foresee using the blade ever again for another project, the total investment becomes pretty steep. Just a thought.

That's a great idea too. With the basement finished and the theater the last "big" project I'll be taking on, I'm not too anxious to buy many new expensive tools with limited use.
 
#1,340 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio /forum/post/21650030


Question for the pro's on the cabinet.


As you know, I'm using 1x2's in between the cabinet doors. I've noticed on the first board, there is a slight bend to it to the side. Can I clamp two boards on it before mounting and then screw it in to make sure it's straight? Or will the board return to it's normal bend after removing the clamps?


I'm only leaving 1/8" gap around the cabinets. So it doesn't take much to notice if something is off. I'm wondering if this is what a jointer would fix. It seems like you'd need to start with 1" material though and then you'd end up with a perfectly straight 3/4" piece?

If I understand your design and your question correctly, these 1x2's will be fastened at the top and bottom but will be unsupported along their vertical length. If that's the case, the bend will come back as soon as the clamps are removed.


There are several ways to put a straight, flat face on a bowed board, but you are correct that all of them result in a thinner board. Woodworkers usually buy wood that starts out thicker. 4/4 wood from a specialty wood store is usually around 7/8" thick.


The easiest way to execute your design without worrying about the dividers staying straight, would be to make the entire divider out of plywood or MDF with a 1/8" strip of hardwood glued to the edge facing the room. A lot of euro-style cabinets are made this way.

Quote:
Here's the table saw I borrowed from my brother. It's definitely on the lower end.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_167737-46922...7C1&facetInfo=

I can see why you might have problems with that saw. A sharp blade might help (a 10" Freud Diablo 24-tooth ripping blade is $30 from Amazon). Otherwise, I'm not sure what to suggest. You might need to consider using pine instead of maple for pieces that you're going to need to rip. Or, as TMcG suggested, pay a cabinet shop for a half-hour of time to make your cuts for you.


Oh, before I forget: Before you fasten the dividers in place, think about how you're going to mount the hinges. If you're going to mortise the hinges into the dividers (which is the traditional and preferred method), you might want to cut those mortises before you fasten the dividers in position.
 
#1,341 ·
Thanks dwightp.


That's correct. I plan to screw the 1x2 divider notched section straight into the back of the 1x2 that I added to the front of the cabinets. Am I at risk of straight maple boards warping over time? I thought maple made sense because it was hard and would match the entire face of the front cabinet wall. I like your idea of using MDF but veered away because of it not matching the maple cabinet doors. It sounds like the 1/8" strip glued solves that.


If you guys think the 1x2 will warp over time, I could mount that to another 1x2 essentially making a T. But maybe that just introduces another board that can warp.



I'm using these hinges on the doors:
http://www.knobs4less.com/ame3180tbfb.html


So no mortising. My plan was to start building from the center cabinet out. Build the center cabinet and center. Then I'll attach the dividers with an 1/8" of spacing all around and at the same angle as the cabinet so the hinges are aligned with the door.

Next I plan to mount the hinges to the door, position with the appropriate gap, and attach the hinge to the divider.


Rinse, wash and repeat for the remaing doors.
I figure by adding the dividers as I build the doors, I can space them to the door rather than trying to build the door in to the frame.


I'll order one of those better blades to see if that helps.
 
#1,342 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio /forum/post/21659371


Am I at risk of straight maple boards warping over time?

The risk is not zero, but if the maple is straight when you install it and it is finished properly, it will very likely stay straight (unless it gets wet, of course). In this context, "finished properly" means applying the same finish in the same way to all surfaces. If you put two coats of paint on one surface, the opposite surface should also get two coats of paint. This ensures that all parts of the board absorb moisture at the same rate, which helps keep the board flat and straight.

Quote:
My plan was to start building from the center cabinet out. Build the center cabinet and center. Then I'll attach the dividers with an 1/8" of spacing all around and at the same angle as the cabinet so the hinges are aligned with the door.

Next I plan to mount the hinges to the door, position with the appropriate gap, and attach the hinge to the divider.


Rinse, wash and repeat for the remaing doors. I figure by adding the dividers as I build the doors, I can space them to the door rather than trying to build the door in to the frame.

This is an interesting idea. You might still need to trim the doors just to get them square -- in my experience, doors rarely go together perfectly square. And I guess you will still have to fit the last two doors on each side to their openings. But yeah, it sounds like this might save you a bunch of time and effort.
 
#1,343 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio /forum/post/21658923


Here's the table saw I borrowed from my brother. It's definitely on the lower end.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_167737-46922...7C1&facetInfo=


It seems like I can wiggle the blade a bit. Should the blade sit tight?


Yeah, on a decent table saw (or any type of saw) you really should not have any "wiggle" to the blade, with that saw, it's likely also a unwelcome part of it being a low cost saw. Probably due to the use of bushings somewhere in it's design/construction instead of bearings. And yes, that saw is definitely on the low end, and it's also one that is power challenged.


Harder to cut species of wood could very likely be a issue with that saw. Blade selection and having a sharp thin kerf blade could probably help somewhat, but only to a certain extent.
 
#1,344 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla /forum/post/21660534


Yeah, on a decent table saw (or any type of saw) you really should not have any "wiggle" to the blade, with that saw, it's likely also a unwelcome part of it being a low cost saw. Probably due to the use of bushings somewhere in it's design/construction instead of bearings. And yes, that saw is definitely on the low end, and it's also one that is power challenged.


Harder to cut species of wood could very likely be a issue with that saw. Blade selection and having a sharp thin kerf blade could probably help somewhat, but only to a certain extent.

What is a good table saw?


My coworker sent me one that was like $2k and ran off 240v. Just a full head of hair above my budget
 
#1,345 ·
Last night I started on the front wall cabinets.


I started by mounting the first divider. I used the Kreg drill bit to screw through the notched area. Then screwed and glued it to upper and lower shelves.



Here's a snapshot of the cabinet construction:



I mounted the hinges 2.5" from each edge. The same height as the railes and stiles. Then attached it to the divider. A bit tricky to do while balancing it. But you get a little play with the holes in the hinges as long as you get close.



The door swings all the way open which will be nice when moving the sub into the cabinet.





Here's the moulding I'll be using on the inside frame. Only the 3/4" edge and 1/4" lip of the moulding touches the cabinet. I'm wondering if that's enough surface to attach the moulding or do I need to build something behind as well?







I still need to use the 1/8" round over bit on all the cabinet edges. I guess I'll have to dis-assemble the doors/hinges in order to paint them anyways.
 
#1,346 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M /forum/post/21662516


What is a good table saw?


My coworker sent me one that was like $2k and ran off 240v. Just a full head of hair above my budget

Hi Larry.


I don't have any experience with track saws. But they look like they might be a good alternative to a table saw. Especially if you need to rip down 4x8 sheets of MDF like I did by myself. I bought a $100 rulered/clamping straight edge anyways. If I was at the beginning of my project, I probably would have sprung for something like this:
http://www.dewalt.com/tools/saws-tra...dws520skh.aspx
 
#1,347 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightp /forum/post/21659683


The risk is not zero, but if the maple is straight when you install it and it is finished properly, it will very likely stay straight (unless it gets wet, of course). In this context, "finished properly" means applying the same finish in the same way to all surfaces. If you put two coats of paint on one surface, the opposite surface should also get two coats of paint. This ensures that all parts of the board absorb moisture at the same rate, which helps keep the board flat and straight.




This is an interesting idea. You might still need to trim the doors just to get them square -- in my experience, doors rarely go together perfectly square. And I guess you will still have to fit the last two doors on each side to their openings. But yeah, it sounds like this might save you a bunch of time and effort.

Right dwightp. I'm learning to make sure all my wood is square before assembly now which helps. But the first door seemed to go together well square with the square edge clamp I bought a while back.


Only having to really worry about the last two doors should save me a ton of time. Although, my marks that I made based on measurements from the computer have been almost spot on anyways. I won't have to flush trim any edges if they are off by a 1/16".


The first door seemed pretty well square with my dividers and top / bottom shelf. I hope the remaining doors are as easy.
 
#1,348 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla /forum/post/21660534


Yeah, on a decent table saw (or any type of saw) you really should not have any "wiggle" to the blade, with that saw, it's likely also a unwelcome part of it being a low cost saw. Probably due to the use of bushings somewhere in it's design/construction instead of bearings. And yes, that saw is definitely on the low end, and it's also one that is power challenged.


Harder to cut species of wood could very likely be a issue with that saw. Blade selection and having a sharp thin kerf blade could probably help somewhat, but only to a certain extent.

There's definitely some give in that saw. I may try tightening it up but I don't foresee that helping. I think it's just the low cost saw. Fortunately I don't think I'll be needing it much more though to finish the project since I went with the stock 2.5" stiles/rails.
 
#1,350 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio /forum/post/21663270


Also looking for an inexpensive discrete black finger pull. I'd rather not put knobs on the cabinet doors.

I was hoping you would route a finger catch of some kind on the side, so there would be no visible hardware at all.


(Sorry I don't have any tips on finding the hardware you need, but Google images and shopping can probably combine to find you almost anything.)
 
#1,351 ·
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