AVS Forum banner

Audio Physic Owner's Thread

54K views 88 replies 29 participants last post by  craig john 
#1 ·
I bought some Audio Physic speakers in surround setup after hearing many speakers.

These speakers are true audiophile.

I use the Spark 2005 and Step with the Celsius centre.

Audio Physic Step 2005:


I use this setup in my livingroom:
 
See less See more
2
#52 ·
First of all hello to everybody, as thiw is my first message in this forum.

I've signed in because i wanted to enter in the Audio Physic owner thread because one month ago I became an Audio Physic owner too. So here iam.

I will soon post some pictures of my loydspeakers and it would be very nice to open a conversation between us to exchange our experience on how to get out the most of our Audio Physic loudspeakers!
 
#54 ·
I also hope to be soon able to upgrade my amplification with a proper component for my liodspeakers.
 
#55 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by panos_adgr /forum/post/19828227


I also hope to be soon able to upgrade my amplification with a proper component for my liodspeakers.

Hello Panos, nice looking setup. What are your components? Your receiver reminds me of Luxman.
 
#56 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLS
Hello Panos, nice looking setup. What are your components? Your receiver reminds me of Luxman.
My reciaver is an old pioneer a/v reciener vsx d 2011. It's quite good for moovies but not for listening to music especialy with my new loudspeakers. I will upgrade my set up soon.
 
#57 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreybehr /forum/post/19337528


And they continue to get better.



The spikes are as good as I'd hoped. Here's one with an original (AP) locknut and a nylon flatwasher that I blackened with a Marks-A-Lot Permanent Marker.


The x-overs are about finished.

I've removed the 2 sets of inexpensive MR-input caps and installed the tweeter-series caps. The latter are both composite SoniCaps, mostly 'propylene and with Platinum (Teflon-alloy-film) bypasses. The big black thing hovering over one of the SCPs is a Mills MRA-12 (Watt) 12-Ohm resistor. Prior to installing the antidiffraction pads and the new tweeter caps, I selected its value to produce the lowest level of treble I'd ever want for my brightest recordings. Incredibly, with the installation of the obviously-much-better-sounding caps and the diffractionbegone pads, I now find myself listening most of the time with NO resistor feeding the tweeter. Even with only* a couple-hundred hours of break-in on the tweeter caps, the treble is close to the best I've ever heard from ribbon tweeters! I'll be replacing the 2.2- and 3.3-Ohm resistors with 12-Watt Mills.


The bottom of the board is now lots busier than before--all the replacement caps were larger than the originals and wouldn't fit on top.

The Axon and the 2 SoniCaps in the center are MR- and lower-MR-shunt caps, that is, they're not in series with the signal. The 2 on the right, SoniCap 'propylenes, are the main tweeter-series caps.


These things continue to sound better, and I'm thrilled.


BTW I own a pair of Antique Sound Lab Hurricane tubed poweramps. These use 4 pairs of KT88s to achieve 200 Watts in Ultralinear (or ultranonlinear, as some of us call it) or 120 Watts in triode mode.

I've improved them substantially, and I guess I owe it to myself to try them with the Avantis before I sell them...the Hurricanes, not the Avantis. We'll see.


* Some say that Teflon-film caps require at least 500 hours of break-in to begin sounding their best; some say it takes even longer.


Wow, looks like you've had a good amount of experience with tweeking? One of my LF X overs on my Scorpio's managed to get damaged in shipping, so I had it out & replaced it with a new one. After looking at some of the tolerances, such as the resistors, it had me wondering if some of the components could be replaced to "better grade" to improve the sound. But I wouldn't know where to start as far as selecting "better" replacement components & which ones "should" be replaced. I would imagine it would be more beneficial to look at the MF/HF xover vs the LF. I don't think I'd like to go as far as changing component values as I'm not experienced enough to change crossover values, etc but is it worthwhile to "upgrade" some components with same value replacements?


On the other hand, by selecting what should be a better quality component, isn't there still a chance that the speaker may not sound as good?


Also curious what type of Audio Quest wire you used for the re-wire & did you notice any changes? My Scorpio's are wired with 16awg Wireworld flat wire. My replacement Xover came with what looked like your typical "cheap", basic speaker wire, so I removed it & used the Wireworld cable that the origional Xover had on it to keep things consistant throughout.
 
#58 ·
I would also like to know ,jeffreybehr, what were the diferrence in bass behaviour when you used taller spikes for your avanti's
 
#59 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by panos_adgr /forum/post/19827167


Audio Physic Scorpio II white high gloss.



Great looking speakers but it appears your right speaker is fairly close to the side wall & you are only about 1.5' from the rear wall? If so I'd experiment with placement abit if you can. Scorpio's seem to like 3-4' to the sides & the rears to really get the most out of them. I know my current room isn't ideal either so I'm forced to placement just under about 2' from the rear wall. I can't keep them this way, but I've played with them about 3' or abit more from the rear wall & notice right away the sound stage seems to have alot more depth & they just sound better in general (from the short experience in that position).


Also I'm sure you'll defently be happy with some upgraded amplification, an AVR defently won't do the trick with that class of speaker!
 
#60 ·
Yes you ara right. Ishould have placed them further away from the wall burt i cannot due to many reasons... But i keep them at the minimum limit that the manufacturer allows and that mean half a meter. I loose an amount of the pin point focusing of Audio Physic.


But I will soon moove to another house and i will also make some improvments upgrading my equipment so i have some patience for the near futur.


My walls also are uncovered and create ''blurness'' in stereo and sound imaging...To bad unfortunatelly. When i want to make some serious listening i moove them and when i finish i place them back again but this happens rare. I have them for about 2 months now and i plan a better set up for the future maybe in a dedicated room. It depends on the new home i'm going to moove in and dedicated room is one of the critirea i have for home choosing.
 
#61 ·
daren-p: "Wow, looks like you've had a good amount of experience with tweeking? One of my LF X overs on my Scorpio's managed to get damaged in shipping, so I had it out & replaced it with a new one. After looking at some of the tolerances, such as the resistors, it had me wondering if some of the components could be replaced to "better grade" to improve the sound. But I wouldn't know where to start as far as selecting "better" replacement components & which ones "should" be replaced. I would imagine it would be more beneficial to look at the MF/HF xover vs the LF. I don't think I'd like to go as far as changing component values as I'm not experienced enough to change crossover values, etc but is it worthwhile to "upgrade" some components with same value replacements?


On the other hand, by selecting what should be a better quality component, isn't there still a chance that the speaker may not sound as good?


Also curious what type of Audio Quest wire you used for the re-wire & did you notice any changes? My Scorpio's are wired with 16awg Wireworld flat wire. My replacement Xover came with what looked like your typical "cheap", basic speaker wire, so I removed it & used the Wireworld cable that the origional Xover had on it to keep things consistant throughout."


On the bass x-over, leave it as is or toss it and actively filter and amp the bass. The latter requires a filter and 2 channels of amps, some IC and hi-gage, low-cost speakercable.


I used Audioquest Rocket88 cable. It uses 2 bundles of 2 pairs each, selected for great high- or low-frequency performance. AQ also has better cable of that type in their 'Flatrock' series. Mine too used that cheap flat, stranded speakercable for the bass and MR drivers and some coax for the tweeter.


I'd start upgrading the MR/treble x-over by replacing ALL the caps in series with the signal. In mine, that was a bunch. The biggest hassle, however, is getting to the x-over; mine was installed in the MR-driver cavity; I decided to move it outboard so I could work on it. Two things I did made the biggest changes. First was to replace the 2 caps in series with the tweeter with SoniCaps, 'propylenes and Teflons. Only then did I realize how gritty AND veiling the Clarity Caps sounded. The other was to remove the 2 banks of caps in series with the MR drivers. WOW what a difference that made! 'Clarity' my ass!


If you wanted to do these replacements gradually, start maybe with the 2nd tweeter cap, assuming your tweeter filter is 3rd-order...it may not be, in which case it'll have only 1 cap in series. I'd use a Sonic Craft Gen. 1 'propylene with a better, smaller cap in parallel. If you decide you don't want to spend the money for the Teflon-film Platinums, the MultiCap RTX 100-Volt 'styrenes would be good. Don't worry too much about cap values; all of this stuff is plus-or-minus-10% tolerance. But I think the 1st time you change a part on the x-over board, you'll wish it were outside.



Your new bass x-over was an original AP part or something else?


BTW I'm still evolving on poweramps. I used the 12-Watt-mono-SET Music Reference EM7-12s for months, but the not-enough-power bug finally bit hard enough that I tried a pair of old Marantz model M-22 75-into-4 monoamps.



I've improved parts in them, too, and the system sounds quite good, but...I guess I need vacuumtubes in my system, as I've ordered a pair of Monarchy Audio's hybrid amps, the SE-160s. They use a 12AT7 in the frontend and many pairs of MOSFET output transistors in the output, are biased class-A to about 50 Watts, and have no negative feedback, global or local. We'll hear what we hear.
 
#62 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreybehr /forum/post/19953290


On the bass x-over, leave it as is or toss it and actively filter and amp the bass. The latter requires a filter and 2 channels of amps, some IC and hi-gage, low-cost speakercable.


I used Audioquest Rocket88 cable. It uses 2 bundles of 2 pairs each, selected for great high- or low-frequency performance. AQ also has better cable of that type in their 'Flatrock' series. Mine too used that cheap flat, stranded speakercable for the bass and MR drivers and some coax for the tweeter.


I'd start upgrading the MR/treble x-over by replacing ALL the caps in series with the signal. In mine, that was a bunch. The biggest hassle, however, is getting to the x-over; mine was installed in the MR-driver cavity; I decided to move it outboard so I could work on it. Two things I did made the biggest changes. First was to replace the 2 caps in series with the tweeter with SoniCaps, 'propylenes and Teflons. Only then did I realize how gritty AND veiling the Clarity Caps sounded. The other was to remove the 2 banks of caps in series with the MR drivers. WOW what a difference that made! 'Clarity' my ass!


If you wanted to do these replacements gradually, start maybe with the 2nd tweeter cap, assuming your tweeter filter is 3rd-order...it may not be, in which case it'll have only 1 cap in series. I'd use a Sonic Craft Gen. 1 'propylene with a better, smaller cap in parallel. If you decide you don't want to spend the money for the Teflon-film Platinums, the MultiCap RTX 100-Volt 'styrenes would be good. Don't worry too much about cap values; all of this stuff is plus-or-minus-10% tolerance. But I think the 1st time you change a part on the x-over board, you'll wish it were outside.



Your new bass x-over was an original AP part or something else?

Thanks for the reply/info Jeff, do you happen to have any pics showing the Audioquest wiring? Was just trying to figure out exactly how you connected them, being their multi conductor cable & sounds like your using more then one run to a driver?


I'm using a bunch of Audioquests cables in my setup (also a mix with some Tara Labs), so know of their product & have been happy with their performance.


The replacement LF x over is an Audio Physic unit, ordered direct. My HF/MR x over is installed in the MR/tweer cabinet as well (took a peak when I got the speakers). If I'm following you your saying if there's two cap in series with the tweeter use the Sonicap Gen 1 on the second cap & then install a platinum in parallel with that? Is that adding the better platinum cap in parallel replacing a cap thats already in parallel from the stock configuration or is that adding an additional cap? If its adding an additional cap, what are the benefits of doing this vs the stock configuration? Also curious as to why not the platinum cap (which sounds like its the better cap) for the replacement of the cap thats in series?


I mostly listen to what I would consider "new rock" music. I know thats probably not the best music choice to show all the strenghts of these speakers but its what I like
Some of the artists I listen to are fairly instrumental & on better recordings you can really hear the benefits of these speakers. On the other hand, their are some recordings I listen too that aren't so great. With listening to this type of music, is it still a good idea to think about higher grade xover components? Or will it just allow me to hear alot more things that I don't necessarly want to hear?
 
#63 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by daren_p /forum/post/19972165


Thanks for the reply/info Jeff, do you happen to have any pics showing the Audioquest wiring? Was just trying to figure out exactly how you connected them, being their multiconductor cable & sounds like you're using more than one run to a driver?

Buy the Rocket 88 without braid so you can zip it apart more easily. I can get you some if you otherwise can't find it. Also, decide where the MR/treble x-over is going to live; mine's on the floor behind the speaker. Then...run only the treble half of the cable to the tweeter, run only the 'bass' half of the cable to the lower-MR driver, and run another full (double) run to the MR driver. This assumes your AP has 2 MR drivers and it's NOT an MTM configuration.


I'm using a bunch of Audioquests cables in my setup (also a mix with some Tara Labs), so know of their product & have been happy with their performance.


The replacement LF x over is an Audio Physic unit, ordered direct. My HF/MR x over is installed in the MR/tweeter cabinet as well (took a peak when I got the speakers). If I'm following you you're saying if there are two caps in series with the tweeter & use the Sonicap Gen 1 on the second cap & then install a platinum in parallel with that? Yes for BOTH of the tweeter caps, but start with one if you want.


Is that adding the better Platinum cap in parallel replacing a cap that's already in parallel from the stock configuration NO


or is that adding an additional cap? Yes.


If it's adding an additional cap, what are the benefits of doing this vs the stock configuration? When paralleling caps with better ones, one gets some of the benefits of the better cap without spending the money for a much-larger better cap.

Also curious as to why not the platinum cap (which sounds like it's the better cap) for the replacement of the cap that's in series? The Platinums are very expensive and not made in large values. See http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicap_platinum.htm


I mostly listen to what I would consider "new rock" music. I know that's probably not the best music choice to show all the strengths of these speakers but its what I like
Some of the artists I listen to are fairly instrumental & on better recordings you can really hear the benefits of these speakers. On the other hand, their are some recordings I listen to that aren't so great. With listening to this type of music, is it still a good idea to think about higher grade x-over components? Or will it just allow me to hear alot more things that I don't necessarly want to hear? Only you can anser that one. Lots of reviewers of hi-end stuff like rock, so why not hear it thru better-sounding equipment?

Do you believe you can trace and draw a schematic diagram of the MR/tweeter x-over?
 
#64 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreybehr /forum/post/19974162


Do you believe you can trace and draw a schematic diagram of the MR/tweeter x-over?

Thanks for all that info Jeffry, that helps to make things clearer. Looks like the MR/Tweeter x over is more complicated then the LF x over but I'm sure I could figure something out to send off to you.


My Scorpio's are a 3.5 way system as well with dual MR drivers. Believe the lower MR driver is 150-500hz, while the upper is 150-2.8KHz. So it sounds like you'd recommend wiring up only the bass portion to the lower MR driver & a complete (treable & bass) run to the upper driver? I'm curios as to why you didn't us the same type of run to both MR drivers? (& what made you choose that perticular run type?).


If your MR x over is mounted out of the speaker now, do you no longer have any input wire to the crossover?


I did find Soniccraft for the Sonicaps & found the Platinum version but must have just looked at the first few lines @ ~$25 a piece. I went back after you mentioned price & then saw how some of the larger values are $400 a piece. I can see that would get abit expensive depending on what values are needed.
 
#65 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by daren_p
Thanks for all that info Jeffry, that helps to make things clearer. Looks like the MR/Tweeter x over is more complicated then the LF x over but I'm sure I could figure something out to send off to you.


My Scorpio's are a 3.5 way system as well with dual MR drivers. Believe the lower MR driver is 150-500hz, while the upper is 150-2.8KHz. Just like my Avanti IIIs but my HP filter point was 200Hz.


So it sounds as if you'd recommend wiring only the bass portion to the lower-MR driver & a complete (treble & bass) run to the upper driver? Yes.


I'm curious as to why you didn't us the same type of run to both MR drivers? (& what made you choose that perticular run type?). The cable sections are optimized (on a mix of cost and quality) for lower frequecies and upper frequencies, and it simply wastes your money to include the hi-frequency bundle to the driver that carries no high frequencies. Same but reversed for the tweeter. So if you decide you need, say, 6' of cable from outboard x-over to tweeter, using full (double-section) cable would require 18', but spitting one requires only 12' of cable. And I can get you higher-quality AQ cable too at below retail and in bulk; the next-up AQ cable I recommend is Gibraltar.


If your MR x-over is mounted out of the speaker now, do you no longer have any input wire to the crossover? I have none of that low- and medium-quality wire that AP used. The new speakercable runs from the spadelugs at the amp, 'thru' the outboard x-over, and to the drivers.


I did find Soniccraft for the Sonicaps & found the Platinum version but must have just looked at the first few lines @ ~$25 a piece. I went back after you mentioned price & then saw how some of the larger values are $400 a piece. I can see that would get a bit expensive depending on what values are needed. Yup, and my systems use two-each 6.8s and 3s!
One of the things I decided to do early was to move the high-pass filterpoint of the MR drivers down to increase the warmth of the system and use more of the frequency range of those excellent MR drivers. I had tubed amps in which I could easily change a couplingcap to create a active filter for the bottom of the MR, which I did, and I then REMOVED the 2 banks of inexpensive plastic-film caps that AP used. My MR drivers now run down to c. 80Hz, about the bottom of their physical ability, and the increase in sound quality amazed me. Without getting into amps, you could achieve some of that by adding a great-sounding cap in parallel with the 2 sets of MR-hi-pass caps on the board, but of course you have to identify those caps which means finishing that schematic. On my board, the 2 banks of MR-hi-pass caps are the 3 blue and 1 white caps (3 15s plus a 10 totaling 55uF) at the bottom of the board in this pic.


In this pic, the treble section is on the left, MR in the center, and lower-MR on the right.


This is the board in progress; notice the blue and the white caps are missing.



WARNING--do not lower the filterpoint of the MR drivers if you listen to music at HIGH levels, as you could overdrive and damage the MR drivers. If you choose to move the filterpoint(s) down, you could do it in stages, adding more capacitance to only the lower-MR driver and not the MR driver. I recommend a BlackGate AC-series cap, 47uF, from Michael Percy.
http://percyaudio.com/

BlackGates are VERY-hi-quality caps and are out of production; if increasing the lower-MR/upper-bass output of the system sounds like something you'd like, contact Percy soon, as I imagine those 47s will be gone soon. (I have one new one available.) If you end up not using them, as long as you don't solder to them, you could easily sell them.


I know this is a lot do think about, but doing all this stuff to my Avantis has increased the quality of their sounds a lot. For instance, I didn't know treble could sound so good, and it's no wonder to me now that for all my previous systems I had to pad the treble down considerably to make the systems listenable.
 
#66 ·
Daren, more thoughts on moving the MR-LP-filterpoint down.


Again, start with the LMR driver and add in parallel a 47/250 Solen that's only $16.50 from Michael Percy. The LMR driver probably won't reproduce the edginess that's inherent to the Solens (and especially the 250s), so that'll cost only $33 for the 2 speakers. While you're ordering from Percy, buy a couple Axon 33/250s for $24 total and replace the 33uF (or whatever the value is) 'lytic cap that's in the LMR section. 'Lytic caps sound bad in MR sections even if they're in shunt.


But I still think you should start by outboarding the MR/treble x-overs and rewiring the speaker.
 
#67 ·
Finally finished fooling around with the crossovers.






The wood is poplar, and I should have started staining with WATCO Black Walnut instead of Light Walnut. They now have many coats of WATCO Dark Walnut and WATCO Cherry. Without the cherry stain, the color was a bit yellowish.


The new amps are Monarchy Audio SE-160s--hybrid, class-A to 50 Watts, MOSFET output stage, NO negative FB, 320 into 4, made in USA. Initial impressions are positive
, but they're only 2 days old.
 
#68 ·
Jeffrey, just wanted to thank you again for all the input/info. Currently I have too many things on the go with other hobbies & home reno's but I'd defently like to "play" with my Scorpio's in the future. If you don't mind, I'll probably need to pick your brain for more info at that time
 
#69 ·
YW.


As my system gets better in all aspects, of course I'm more able to hear the weak areas, and after achieving what I believe is 5-star quality with the A-IIIs' MR, I'm now hearing the less-than-excellent treble. With so many excellent-sounding speakersystems around, the A-III's 12-year-old tweeter is showing its age.


I've been fantasizing about replacing the tweeters, but so many perhaps-more-experienced DIYists tell me I'd be lucky to actually achieve better-sounding treble, so I put it off. Finally I decided to try a pair of tweeters I had some experience with years ago but I guess forgot how good they had sounded. Yesterday I borrowed my buddy's loose pair of B-G Neo3PDRs and clipped and taped them into/on the Avantis.




They almost fit within the 104mm-diameter recess, and they match very well with the Avanti's 3rd-order treble filter...at least as much as I can tell with my Phonic PAA2 3rd-octave RTA.


They sound definitely better--for instance massed violins have significantly less coarseness--so I'll be buying and modifying slightly a pair so they do fit into the recess. Another diffractionbegone.com antidiffraction pad and I'm finished without touching the crossover! AND...it can be easily returned to original when I finally find an affordable pair of Vandersteen 5As.


-------------------------------


04 April.

Today I ground* the lower corners to a larger radius and permanently mounted them, this time with black tape.



Remounted the antidiffraction pads (which I did NOT have to cut) and I'm finished with my improving-the-Avantis'-treble project but for the leveling resistors.




* AFTER sealing the driver carefully.


----------------------------------


16 April 2011. Decided to screw the new tweeters in/on.
'


The new tweeter still sound great. I'm THRILLED with the improvement $115 of tweeters and a halfhour made.
 
#70 ·
I'm very curious about the results after improving your Avantis...Yoy have done a great deal of tweaking...
 
#71 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by panos_adgr /forum/post/20272507


I'm very curious about the results after improving your Avantis...You have done a great deal of tweaking...

TY, panos. I'm VERY pleased with the results of my tweaking. As I've written, buying the Avantis last summer allowed me to hear just how good my system sounded, and improving them and many other aspects of my already-good-sounding system has gotten the sound to a significantly higher level that's VERY pleasing.


The changes to the Avantis have mostly to do with eliminating grunge, softness, and edginess, hence increasing transparency. Eliminating or replacing ALL the capacitors in series with the signal caused most of this increase in quality. Improving the wiring also helped. Replacing the tweeters significantly reduced the slight coarseness of the treble and, again, increased transparency.


And by 'transparency' I mean the ability to 'see' into the orchestra...to hear more low-level information and also to help the speakers NOT draw attention to themselves and hence disappear better. The sounds from the best multichannel SACDs are astoundingly good.
 
#72 ·
Weii done! I wish i knew some staf on how to tweak a device. I think it's a great dael to know how to improve something and gain ''profit'' from doing it in performance...
 
#73 ·
Well ... i switched from Surround back to Stereo !

My Sparks/Steps/Celsius are moving to a dedicated surround room and my livingroom "upgraded" to a new pair of .... of course .... Audio Physic speakers



A rarely seen Audio Physics Brilon 2.0 monitor speakers (Virgo with Avanti units) with a Audio Physic Luna I subwoofer driven by a Cayin A55T tube-amp sounds fantastic.










It's amazing how a compact monitor speaker can sound this big.


The following video is just an test environment on my workroom to see if everythings works before i installed it in my livingroom.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top