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Does it make sense to upgrade

6K views 123 replies 17 participants last post by  Mfusick 
#1 ·
I have a EVGA 9300 motherboard in my HTPC that has worked good since I built it. I'm getting the itch to upgrade but don't want to spend money for nothing. I have not been following the latest hardware and GPU's that are out now. Just wondering if I will gain anything by adding a separate GPU to my current set-up. Here is what I am using now.


C2D E8400 CPU

EVGA 9300 motherboard (onboard video only)

750 GB storage drive

80 GB OS drive

4 GB ram


My Denon receiver does not decode DTSHD or TrueHD so no need to bitstream. Also all my rips are converted to .flac anyway.


I am thinking of adding an external graphics card and a SSD drive for the OS. Also a ceton or HDHR for recording cable.


Does it pay to upgrade from the onboard graphics? If so can anyone recommend a good fanless card? Full height is ok.


Anyone recommend a good SSD?
 
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#77 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cigga24 /forum/post/21915704


In case anyone is interested I just ordered a 64gb M4 from Staples for $89 then pricematched to Amazon for $79 then used the $25 off $75 coupon, bringing toal with tax to $53.xx. Delivery isnt until 23rd though

Sorry to hear this ... lol. (just kidding)


Here is another poster complaining about his Crucial M4 here at AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21915890
 
#78 ·
Dude, i wasnt trying to offend anyone. I was kinda siding with you on the Sandforce. Basically saying they cant be that bad if Intel is using them as well. Now I would love a Vertex 3 or 2 but i cant afford one. Like others have said i got to get the best for what i can afford.


Knowing that the Vertex is much better than the Agility 3, which was my other option, i had a hard time trying to purchase that one just based on user reviews not benchmarks. $55 is much easier for me to swallow now than the $150, i was even pressing my luck with the GT because it was $150 before rebate. Also the fact that i only use 31gb as opposed to 48gb. If i used 48gb then the bigger faster drive would be perfect because its double my space but as of now, the 64gb doubles my space.


I also agree that reliability is subjective and i try to weed out the obvious reviews. My hopes now that you point out this 5000 hour thing is that hopefully it'll be fixed by December which is when i should be hitting that mark give or take a month.


I will keep reading because i still ave 10days left to make a decision on which to keep.
 
#79 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cigga24 /forum/post/21915908


Dude, i wasnt trying to offend anyone. I was kinda siding with you on the Sandforce. Basically saying they cant be that bad if Intel is using them as well. Now I would love a Vertex 3 or 2 but i cant afford one. Like others have said i got to get the best for what i can afford.


Knowing that the Vertex is much better than the Agility 3, which was my other option, i had a hard time trying to purchase that one just based on user reviews not benchmarks. $55 is much easier for me to swallow now than the $150, i was even pressing my luck with the GT because it was $150 before rebate. Also the fact that i only use 31gb as opposed to 48gb. If i used 48gb then the bigger faster drive would be perfect because its double my space but as of now, the 64gb doubles my space.


I also agree that reliability is subjective and i try to weed out the obvious reviews. My hopes now that you point out this 5000 hour thing is that hopefully it'll be fixed by December which is when i should be hitting that mark give or take a month.


I will keep reading because i still ave 10days left to make a decision on which to keep.


First- A big sorry for my aggressive words.


Also,

You did fine. Your deal was excellent and no doubt that Crucial should serve you well for a long time. For the price you paid- I doubt there is really anything better anywhere.


I am sorta jealous actually- cause for that price I might be tempted myself



Your right about the Intel thing- if Intel is using them they can't be all that bad.


Sorry to come off so strong but I get all worked up when I keep reading people say stuff about the Crucial being tops and the Sandforces being "garbage" It just is opposite what I personally have experienced.


I am an admitted fan boy
But I also feel I have earned the right to be through trial and error and experience.


My apologies for coming across strong. I get passionate about my SSD's



Just update the firmware on that M4 if it's not current and you should be fine. It might be current at this point. It's been some time and M4's sell well.


Real world there is very little difference between an M4 and any other SSD of the same size, including the Sandforce drives like Vertex3's.


Benchmarks don't always tell the whole story- I doubt you would even notice a difference.


My point was certainly not to trash the M4; it's a great drive. It was more expose the perception, and how it's not always reality. It's trendy to hate on OCZ and it is also trendy to hate on Sandforce. It's also trendy to talk up and worship the M4. But trends come and go. It's time for this trend to go IMO.


It's been a year- and fools still regurgitate year old info that's not accurate today. The Sandforce needed firmware fixes, and it got crucified for that. M4's need it and it gets swept under the rug.
 
#80 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 /forum/post/21913978


Ok, so your solution not only negates the very reason for having a SSD in the first place (which was to replace the hard disk, not to necessititate adding another one), it also mean hanging some sloppy, ugly external box off your htpc.


This gets funnier with each successive post.

I didn't buy an SSD to replace my hard disk and be the only drive on my system, I bought it for the increase it brings in speed to the OS from boot times, opening programs, and general snappiness of the whole system. Everything runs faster.


SSD for OS and programs, HDD for media. This is standard practice for htpc use with the high cost of SSDs. You don't need the fast speeds of SSD for media playback, only the program on the SSD to launch them. You can't run a media pc solely on SSDs and expect to have any kind of storage space. To get 5TB of SSDs would cost what, $5000 minimum? And that's with 40 128GB drives? Get real.


Hanging some "sloppy, ugly external box" off your htpc? Dude, how anal do you have to be to have a black box smaller than a book sitting next to your pc? I can barely even see it from my couch since it blends in with the smoked glass on my tv stand. It's the least offensive looking thing on my entire entertainment rack.
 
#81 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick /forum/post/21915798


Reality is the Crucial is less reliable. Crucial M4's are known to die at around 5000 hour mark, and it's well known that they require an updated firmware to prevent such. Only the very newest ones have the proper firmware. I read across forums all the time about Crucial M4's having issues. They will bring on the blue screen of death crashes about every hour without the firmware fix. OUCH!

It was a bug that was found and fixed. You sure wrote a lot in that wall of text for something that is not an issue anymore.
 
#82 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick /forum/post/0




My point was certainly not to trash the M4; it's a great drive. It was more expose the perception, and how it's not always reality. It's trendy to hate on OCZ and it is also trendy to hate on Sandforce. It's also trendy to talk up and worship the M4. But trends come and go. It's time for this trend to go IMO.


It's been a year- and fools still regurgitate year old info that's not accurate today. The Sandforce needed firmware fixes, and it got crucified for that. M4's need it and it gets swept under the rug.

That's cool, It's kinda like not every song in the Top 40 is actually a good song and not everything that's popular is right.
 
#83 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cigga24 /forum/post/21915409


On another note, everyone says how the Sandforce 2281 drives are garbage but why is Intel making some??

Here is the entire explanation:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5508/i...y-to-sandforce


Basically, Intel spent a year writing and validating its own firmware for the controller, it delayed the release by many months while it continued to validate it, with this effort it seems to have fixed the bugs, and the fixes it included in its firmware will not be made available any time soon to any of Sandforce's other customers.
 
#84 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg /forum/post/21916253


Hanging some "sloppy, ugly external box" off your htpc? Dude, how anal do you have to be to have a black box smaller than a book sitting next to your pc? I can barely even see it from my couch since it blends in with the smoked glass on my tv stand. It's the least offensive looking thing on my entire entertainment rack.

It's not "anal"; your solution just creates clutter and looks like garbage. It certainly is a ridiculous alternative to paying $30 more for a larger internal SSD in the first place. Indeed, it looks exactly like someone who didn't plan very well in the first place and so has to come up with a kluge.


BTW, no one was talking about putting media on the SSD. Hanging a USB external hard drive off the htps was your solution for having bought too small an SSD. To each his own, but I don't think it's a very good one.
 
#85 ·
Instead of an external drive most of us have a storage drive in their HTPC for recorded tv storage anyway. So if you still need to install something that does not fit you still have options.


Bottom line is for an average HTPC 64gb is enough. If you have the extra cash 128 cant hurt. Is it necessary? No. Is it nice? Yes.


If someone put a 64gb in there htpc they wont be disappointed. You can argue all you want that 128 is nice but its not necessary.
 
#86 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babbitt 1080P /forum/post/21916880


Instead of an external drive most of us have a storage drive in their HTPC for recorded tv storage anyway. So if you still need to install something that does not fit you still have options.


Bottom line is for an average HTPC 64gb is enough. If you have the extra cash 128 cant hurt. Is it necessary? No. Is it nice? Yes.


If someone put a 64gb in there htpc they wont be disappointed. You can argue all you want that 128 is nice but its not necessary.

An SSD isn't "necessary" at all.


The only point was that it now makes sense price wise to buy the 128 because the gap has gotten very small. 128s are now the "sweet spot."


As I said, it's no different than before the flood when you could buy a 500gb hard disk for $49 or a 2tb hard disk for $69. Would the 500gb work? Of course it would. What was the smart buy? The 2tb of course.


You get more reliability, more speed, and less hassle of having to delete or move things, less risk of Windows getting cramped, more flexibility to deal with new things what WILL happen during the life of the computer, all for about $30. It's a no brainer.


And the notion that's been repeated here is that anyone knows EXACTLY how much stuff they will ever have on their system or how much space they will ever need during the 5 year or so expected life of the unit is simply ridiculous.
 
#87 ·
Personally I like being able to have things in my documents on the SSD and enough room for games and programs.


I love downloading to the standard download folder and installing programs from there on the SSD. They install so much faster and better.


If I am going to buy an SSD I want to use it and enjoy the advantages.


I don't want to move stuff around or be constantly deleting.


I don't want to be bouncing off the ceiling of capacity or lower the performance by being 85% or more full.


60gb only makes sense when extreme budget limitations exist. In that scenario it might make sense.


If I was building a daily driver for personal use double the size for $30 or $40 is a good deal. No more 60gb for me. I own five and regret it already.
 
#88 ·
Come one guys. I think you just want to argue.


How many people here are really installing a bunch of stuff on their HTPC? More than 20gb worth?


The best advice I can give anyone about HTPC is once its working good, don't touch it. Don't do windows updates. Don't put on new players. Don't try new filters. Just don't. If it works leave it alone and watch a movie or something.


Something always breaks when trying new stuff. If there's not a bunch to gain as in better picture or sound don't mess with it.


So that said my 20gb I have free today will be the same 20gb I have next year and probabally the year after that.


If your installing games and other software then its not just a HTPC. It a PC with HTPC capabilities. If that's the case then you guys are absolutely right. But for simple dedicated HTPC's 64gb is fine.
 
#89 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babbitt 1080P /forum/post/21918035


Come one guys. I think you just want to argue.

Your probably right
Isn't that what makes forums fun? lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babbitt 1080P /forum/post/21918035


How many people here are really installing a bunch of stuff on their HTPC? More than 20gb worth?

If you put a few games, office, players, programs, and some odd downloads... .. you hit 50Gb pretty easy. I know, I have a few PC's with 64GB drives that are in the 45-50GB range of used space. And- I delete stuff to keep it down.


My 120GB's are around 70GB with windows back up working, and about 60Gb when I disable it. It's clear to me I am a 120GB kinda guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babbitt 1080P /forum/post/21918035


The best advice I can give anyone about HTPC is once its working good, don't touch it. Don't do windows updates. Don't put on new players. Don't try new filters. Just don't. If it works leave it alone and watch a movie or something.

You sound like your in need of a server with autoback up and imaging. I don't even bother to uninstall things anymore. I just restore to a previous and known perfectly working set up. Best way to uninstall IMO.. without registry clutter. If I try something and want to go back, I never uninstall it. I revert back. If I like it I keep it. If something messes up I revert back.


Uninstalling is for noobs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Babbitt 1080P /forum/post/21918035


So that said my 20gb I have free today will be the same 20gb I have next year and probabally the year after that.


If your installing games and other software then its not just a HTPC. It a PC with HTPC capabilities. If that's the case then you guys are absolutely right. But for simple dedicated HTPC's 64gb is fine.

If your going to flash freeze your basic HTPC and never touch it for years your logic and argument does seem right.


But- I doubt I will ever do that. I am always playing, tinkering and stuff. This is my hobby.... so I guess I am just different than you.


I also like stuff on the SSD because it works so good. I don't keep HDD in my HTPC. Only my main PC and server. So if it don't install on the SSD it would be located on the server. I just need more. I hate the idea of using 50GB out of 60GB. The drive slows down, and you burn them out faster. Plus- 120GB drives are faster



Each their own. Nothing wrong with 64GB drives. I have some. They work great.

I just won't buy anymore since 120GB drives are now cheaper ($99-$150) and better/faster. Spending $80 on a 64GB just seems silly to me.
 
#90 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babbitt 1080P /forum/post/21918035


Come one guys. I think you just want to argue.


How many people here are really installing a bunch of stuff on their HTPC? More than 20gb worth?


The best advice I can give anyone about HTPC is once its working good, don't touch it. Don't do windows updates. Don't put on new players. Don't try new filters. Just don't. If it works leave it alone and watch a movie or something.


. . .


If your installing games and other software then its not just a HTPC. It a PC with HTPC capabilities. If that's the case then you guys are absolutely right. But for simple dedicated HTPC's 64gb is fine.

What you really mean is that it's not YOUR idea of an HTPC. We have 10 pcs and laptops in the house. We don't need to use the HPTCs for general stuff. The HTPCs get used for exactly what the name implies and nothing else. No games, no Office, no other non-htpc stuff. But my main one has Sony Vegas Platinum Suite, Nero Platinum 10 suite, J R Media Center, several other editors, cutters, and transcoders -- all HTPC stuff. Yes, it fits on a 64gb SSD, but not with enough room left over. And if you want to live in a time warp, with a locked down system for the next ten years, that's your choice, but that's not how everyone chooses to use their htpc. I wish I had a 128gb SSD in my htpc but they were prohibitively expensive at the time. Now that is the smallest that I buy and I've put 128gb SSDs in my other pcs and I'm working on doing the same in the laptops. And for the small price gap nowdays there's really no good reason to buy anything smaller.


And if your htpc is connected to the internet it is both foolish and irresponsible not to keep Windows updated and to have a security suite that you also keep updated.
 
#91 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 /forum/post/21918659


And if your htpc is connected to the internet it is both foolish and irresponsible not to keep Windows updated and to have a security suite that you also keep updated.

Agree again. using image back ups you can undo anything that happens bad.. but often good happens too. So it's worth staying up to date.
 
#92 ·
Well my idea of what htpc does is a bit different than yours. I prefer to install only whats needed for playback and nothing else. The rest just not needed and not having it installed keep things simple and running smooth.


I can see if your doing all your video editing and ripping. That stuff takes up space and would be nice on a bigger drive. I use my main desktop for that.


I have a 18+ TB server and a few other pc's in the house so my htpc is used only for whats its supposed to do. In my opinion it keeps it running better.


I see both sides but for my usage its just spending $20-$50 more for something I more than likely wont use.
 
#94 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babbitt 1080P /forum/post/21919112


Well my idea of what htpc does is a bit different than yours. I prefer to install only whats needed for playback and nothing else. The rest just not needed and not having it installed keep things simple and running smooth.


I can see if your doing all your video editing and ripping. That stuff takes up space and would be nice on a bigger drive. I use my main desktop for that.


I have a 18+ TB server and a few other pc's in the house so my htpc is used only for whats its supposed to do. In my opinion it keeps it running better.


I see both sides but for my usage its just spending $20-$50 more for something I more than likely wont use.

Sounds like you have a good understanding of your needs, and thus your choice makes sense in many ways for you.


I'll still disagree, but your not wrong.
 
#95 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 /forum/post/21916718


It's not "anal"; your solution just creates clutter and looks like garbage. It certainly is a ridiculous alternative to paying $30 more for a larger internal SSD in the first place. Indeed, it looks exactly like someone who didn't plan very well in the first place and so has to come up with a kluge.


BTW, no one was talking about putting media on the SSD. Hanging a USB external hard drive off the htps was your solution for having bought too small an SSD. To each his own, but I don't think it's a very good one.

I simply don't need larger than a 64GB SSD. If you read my previous posts I have 27GB free on the SSD and use the external drives for storage. It's not a matter of cost/size/whatever, I simply don't need a larger OS drive. When I bought mine last year for $80 the 128GB was twice the price. Even at a $30 difference I would probably still buy the 64GB because $30 is still $30 wasted to me if I have no use for it.


Sitting underneath my tv I have my htpc, wired keyboard and mouse, 3 external drives totaling 5TB for media, HDHomerun tuner, xbox 360 with 2 wireless controllers, and a surge protector/battery backup. Your opinion of having an external drive "creates clutter and looks like garbage" is just another piece of electronics to me. I'll never understand that viewpoint but it's your opinion which you are entitled to.
 
#96 ·
Sorry to switch the topic but staying on SSD but moving from htpc to laptop. My wife has a 2006 Macbook Pro (C2D). It has a SATA 1 in it and running 10.7 Lion. I thought about putting a 120gb SSD in that because its a laptop and it currently has a 120gb in it and i would get in a lot of trouble to go smaller.


Now i read a few people putting SSDs in their machine then i read others saying you cant because TRIM is not supported unless you have an official Mac SSD. Anyone know anything about this? Am i wasting my time thinking about this?


I ask because we will b upgrading her to a new one once the refresh happens and i would like to use that as an htpc extender in my spare bedroom.
 
#97 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cigga24 /forum/post/21919987


Sorry to switch the topic but staying on SSD but moving from htpc to laptop. My wife has a 2006 Macbook Pro (C2D). It has a SATA 1 in it and running 10.7 Lion. I thought about putting a 120gb SSD in that because its a laptop and it currently has a 120gb in it and i would get in a lot of trouble to go smaller.


Now i read a few people putting SSDs in their machine then i read others saying you cant because TRIM is not supported unless you have an official Mac SSD. Anyone know anything about this? Am i wasting my time thinking about this?


I ask because we will b upgrading her to a new one once the refresh happens and i would like to use that as an htpc extender in my spare bedroom.

Without trim your time and performance will degrade.


How long you need it for ? Years ? Months ?

But for a cheap ssd price and for short time it's not a bad solution.
 
#98 ·
I was just going to use it just to use it, otherwise it would sit on a shelf collecting dust and i definitely was not going to give it away. I may just keep it as is since it runs fine besides going on its 3rd battery which i refuse to buy. So i'll just keep it plugged in and buy a BT keyboard and boot that baby into windows and keep it running MC connected to a 42in plasma.


Thinking of time of use it probably isnt worth it.
 
#99 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilky13 /forum/post/21919751


I guess I'll chime in on hardware. I think my Crucial M4 65GB SSD is going bad.


I started getting the BSOD 1-2 hours after the HTPC had been on (didn't matter what programs were running). When the HTPC would restart the BIOS would not see the SSD and I'd get a MSTRBOOT record not found error. I'd have to completely turn off the HTPC (switch on back of PSU) then turn it back on. It would then recognize the SSD no problem and bootup WIN7. After 1-2 hours BSOD.


Changed out SATA cable, used a different cable from the PSU, and tried different SATA ports on the mobo. Still BSOD 1-2 hours later.


Had to make a copy to a 500GB HDD and create a new MSTRBOOT record on it and I am running fine for 3 days now on the mechanical HDD.


Anyone know a good way to troubleshoot SSD's? I had loaded the latest firmware to it back last September. I know SSD's have a certain lifespan when it comes to read & writes, but it is only 8 months old and this problem seems different.

Try updating the firmware. Sounds like the 5000 problem most Crucial M4's have.




Quote:
Originally Posted by cigga24 /forum/post/21920066


I was just going to use it just to use it, otherwise it would sit on a shelf collecting dust and i definitely was not going to give it away. I may just keep it as is since it runs fine besides going on its 3rd battery which i refuse to buy. So i'll just keep it plugged in and buy a BT keyboard and boot that baby into windows and keep it running MC connected to a 42in plasma.


Thinking of time of use it probably isnt worth it.

Throw the SSD into it and use it. You can always yank the SSD out when you decide to replace it for good.


TRIM is just a garbage collector thing.. some SSD's have this built into them. Look for an SSD that does- Most of the Sandforce Controllers have something built into them to do it.
 
#101 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cigga24 /forum/post/21919987


Sorry to switch the topic but staying on SSD but moving from htpc to laptop. My wife has a 2006 Macbook Pro (C2D). It has a SATA 1 in it and running 10.7 Lion. I thought about putting a 120gb SSD in that because its a laptop and it currently has a 120gb in it and i would get in a lot of trouble to go smaller.


Now i read a few people putting SSDs in their machine then i read others saying you cant because TRIM is not supported unless you have an official Mac SSD. Anyone know anything about this? Am i wasting my time thinking about this?


I ask because we will b upgrading her to a new one once the refresh happens and i would like to use that as an htpc extender in my spare bedroom.

There are ways to enable trim on non-Apple SSD's. Search for it ,I no it exists. I think it's just called trim enabler. Honestly though unless you've got a real problem with the speed I wouldn't bother with the SSD. If you do decide to go for it, it should work fine though.
 
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