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Blu-rays Will Now Have Two Unskippable Warnings

7K views 127 replies 46 participants last post by  rboster 
#1 ·
Pathetic >>>

Quote:
An ICE spokesman tells me that the two screens will "come up after the previews, once you hit the main movie/play button on the DVD. At which point the movie rating comes up, followed by the IPR Center screen shot for 10 secs and then the FBI/HSI anti-piracy warning for 10 secs as well. Neither can be skipped/fast forwarded through."


The idea isn't to deter current pirates, apparently (the new scheme requires all legal purchasers to sit through 20 seconds of warnings each time they pop in a film, but will be totally absent from pirated downloads and bootlegs). It's to educate everyone else. As ICE Director John Morton announced in a statement yesterday, "Law enforcement must continue to expand how it combats criminal activity; public awareness and education are a critical part of that effort."

Source:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...ment-warnings/
 
#102 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 /forum/post/22023327


And they would account for what... maybe 0.01% of available online downloads? Those are not the people the studios need to worry about, and it still doesn't change the overall point I'm trying to make.

That's weird. I'm reasonably certain I read somewhere that I was out of touch and those people didn't exist. Huh.



And now, back to the regularly scheduled bitching, moaning and blowing the situation way out of proportion over a ten second warning, already in progress...
 
#103 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb /forum/post/22023406


That's weird. I'm reasonably certain I read somewhere that I was out of touch and those people didn't exist. Huh.

Maybe a Twilight Time release will get uploaded by some guy who bought it. Those people are not the ones the MPAA desperately wants to nab. The Star Wars blus were online weeks before street date. Same for the Lord of the Rings, Avatar (which had fresh BD+ protection and was ripped before AnyDVD updated their software to deal with it... so much for amateur work), etc. The piracy groups have inside sources.
 
#104 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 /forum/post/22022710


Funny, I've been seeing those warnings for decades and yet I can still find just about any music, video game, or movie online. How many years does a strategy have to utterly fail until we can admit it doesn't work?

Unfortunately, though, that applies to almost every law. I mean... people still get killed and robbed, but we have had laws against doing both for pretty much forever in modern society... so, you wouldn't argue that the laws are useless, right?


Laws serve multiple purposes... In part they are to deter people, but the other part is to permit agreed-upon punishment for people who break those laws.


As for the warnings on the discs... that serves the same purpose as publishing the laws. With the copyright law right there on the disc, it is difficult for any potential pirate to be able to make a claim that they "didn't know" it was against the law. Without that warning, you can bet someone somewhere would claim they didn't know.... much like some in this very thread didn't seem to know, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will2007 /forum/post/22022895


Correct. It's pointless to lecture legitimate purchasers of the discs. It fact, it's counterproductive to do so. This is the point lost on the MPAA and the studios that comprise it.

Well... who would you lecture? Lecturing the criminal is even more useless, no? I mean... do you lecture the guy coming out of the bank with the sack of money and a ski mask about the illegality of robbing banks?


When is the best time to educate people on the dangers of drinking and driving... when they are sober and therefore not in violation of the law? OR when they are already drinking to the point where their comprehension skills are hindered?


Of course you lecture the people who and when they are not violating the law. That's the only people who will listen! Lecturing the guy who already decided to steal the movie does zero good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 /forum/post/22023420


Maybe a Twilight Time release will get uploaded by some guy who bought it. Those people are not the ones the MPAA desperately wants to nab. The Star Wars blus were online weeks before street date. Same for the Lord of the Rings, Avatar (which had fresh BD+ protection and was ripped before AnyDVD updated their software to deal with it... so much for amateur work), etc. The piracy groups have inside sources.

Exactly. Now, I'm sure Twilight Time would argue (and correctly I might add) that they absolutely care when someone steals one of their movies because they have small business model and many of their movies aren't selling out their limited run so it directly could affect their bottom line if someone steals a copy rather than pay $30 for a legitimate one!


But ultimately the "big boys" only get involved when something major is stolen. Also the point made where people get copies illegally before street date... which usually means there is an insider (either the movie company OR the disc-manufacturing plant) taking the "golden master" and copying it.


Some pirates are in it for bootlegging and making money... others use the "stick it to the man" approach when giving things away... and both do harm to the system.


It's really the same thing as those embedded devices in movies and CDs that the retail stores have to deactivate when you buy so the alarm doesn't beep...or those god-awful contraptions some stores lock their movies and CDs inside that have to be removed with a special key by the cashier. Those too are necessary evils because people were stealing physical copies from the stores.


IF we move to more and more online (especially digital copy) distribution... there will be less retail theft of movies and music and far more stolen copies.


I hear all the time about how stealing a digital copy doesn't harm a company because either: the person wasn't going to buy anyway, or it doesn't prevent sales to others because it isn't physical inventory... but that completely ignores the other aspect of theft, which is... if you don't pay, you aren't entitled.


If I sneak into a movie theater, it doesn't stop them from selling all the tickets (if I stand and don't take a paying customer seat)... but I'm getting to see a movie that I am NOT entitled to see because I didn't pay. Whether it affects the other sales or not is irrelevant.


And all of that leads back to... the forced non-skippable stuff on our Blu-rays... and yes, it means we pay and get annoyed by them... but the blame should be at the feet of all the people who have been ripping and stealing that is leaving the studios scrambling to figure out ways to deter and educate people about not stealing their product.


Another interesting thing about movie and music theft... Most of the theft is by people who could afford to buy them. Homeless and hungry and poor people tend to steal food and clothes and things they need to live... the movie and music thefts tend to be from middle and upper class thieves, so there's not any way to defend it really.
 
#105 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 /forum/post/22023420


Maybe a Twilight Time release will get uploaded by some guy who bought it. Those people are not the ones the MPAA desperately wants to nab. The Star Wars blus were online weeks before street date. Same for the Lord of the Rings, Avatar (which had fresh BD+ protection and was ripped before AnyDVD updated their software to deal with it... so much for amateur work), etc. The piracy groups have inside sources.

Of course, but since when did it become about who the MPAA "desperately wants to nab?" The anti-piracy warning being discussed certainly isn't targeting "inside sources" or foreign pirates on the MPAA's Most Wanted list. Clearly they're also concerned about consumers sharing their movies online (and downloading movies from others,) otherwise, why would they have added this new warning screen?


Oh, and a +1 to much of HDMe2's post above this one...
 
#106 ·
I used to download movies back when I was in the service. Regardless, ill admit downloading a movie is stealing. I wouldn't even try to define it as anything else.


Today I spend a lot of my paycheck at the theaters and on blurays + hard drives (makemkv ftw)
 
#107 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb /forum/post/22023529


Of course, but since when did it become about who the MPAA "desperately wants to nab?" The anti-piracy warning being discussed certainly isn't targeting "inside sources" or foreign pirates on the MPAA's Most Wanted list. Clearly they're also concerned about consumers sharing their movies online (and downloading movies from others,) otherwise, why would they have added this new warning screen?

I never said their behavior was rational or made a lick of sense. You really think people pirate stuff because they haven't seen the FBI warnings? It's a pointless kneejerk reaction to a problem that's too big for them to fight; it will accomplish nothing except annoy paying customers. The only effective way to reduce piracy is making it more trouble than it's worth, and for pirates FBI warning screens are no trouble at all.


I can't even imagine how many hours of my life I've spent clicking past all that trash at the beginning of every blu-ray and DVD I've seen.
 
#108 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 /forum/post/22023625


I never said their behavior was rational or made a lick of sense.

Just because it doesn't make any sense to you doesn't mean that their behavior is irrational or pointless. Perhaps you're not privy to the same data they are.


Clearly they're concerned about piracy on a consumer level. This isn't new. For several years now, there have been "PSA" type anti-piracy ads that have run on both TV and at the start of BD and DVDs, and they clearly show kids and young adults sharing and downloading videos on their computers.


Maybe they're trying to get through to the next generation of movie buyers before they get caught up in the whole "it's a victimless crime" rationalization/self-deception BS. Maybe they're trying to reach those who are on the fence about downloading/sharing movies - those who know people who do it (and could therefore be walked through it fairly simply) but are hesitant to do it for whatever reason. Hell, maybe they're hoping they'll guilt-trip a couple of people into resisting the urge to steal (and/or distribute) the movies they've worked so hard on. Or maybe you're right - maybe it's just a pointless kneejerk reaction to a problem they can't solve.


Whatever the reason, at the end of the day, it's an extra ten seconds. Ten. Seconds.


If that's really all you have to be outraged over, consider yourself lucky. And if you're really that upset, send the studios letters and vote with your wallet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 /forum/post/0


I can't even imagine how many hours of my life I've spent clicking past all that trash at the beginning of every blu-ray and DVD I've seen.

You poor thing. If it makes you feel any better, I hear Lifetime's interested in purchasing the rights to your story for one of their upcoming original movies.
 
#109 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/22023499


I mean... people still get killed and robbed, but we have had laws against doing both for pretty much forever in modern society... so, you wouldn't argue that the laws are useless, right?

We're not talking about laws; we're talking about inappropriately-positioned notices about those laws. I don't think anyone here is arguing against anti-piracy laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/22023499


With the copyright law right there on the disc, it is difficult for any potential pirate to be able to make a claim that they "didn't know" it was against the law. Without that warning, you can bet someone somewhere would claim they didn't know...

It doesn't make a difference- ignorance of the law is not a legitimate defense. Try stealing an orange from a grocery store and see how far you get when you point out to the nice gentleman that you didn't see an FBI warning posted, so you assumed they were free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/22023499


Well... who would you lecture? Lecturing the criminal is even more useless, no? I mean... do you lecture the guy coming out of the bank with the sack of money and a ski mask about the illegality of robbing banks?

The point is, lecturing anyone is useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/22023499


Lecturing the guy who already decided to steal the movie does zero good.

Lecturing the guy who already decided not to steal the movie does zero good, as well, so you may as well be lecturing the cat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/22023499


It's really the same thing as those embedded devices in movies and CDs that the retail stores have to deactivate when you buy so the alarm doesn't beep...or those god-awful contraptions some stores lock their movies and CDs inside that have to be removed with a special key by the cashier. Those too are necessary evils because people were stealing physical copies from the stores.

It's not the same thing, as an actual measurable, practical benefit can be discerned with the use of those physical devices. If you can show me some indication that these video warnings have ever deterred or defeated any pirate, you can start comparing them to devices that actually have a chance in hell of producing any tangible result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/22023499


IF we move to more and more online (especially digital copy) distribution... there will be less retail theft of movies and music and far more stolen copies.

... and yet, I can't remember the last time I saw an FBI warning precede a video legitimately downloaded from iTunes or Amazon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/22023499


but the blame should be at the feet of all the people who have been ripping and stealing that is leaving the studios scrambling to figure out ways to deter and educate people about not stealing their product

Should we also blame the (perennial) pirates if the studios decide that the best defense against them is to encase every video disc in a 50lb. brick of concrete?


Should we raise a toast to the studios when they decide to gun down every man, woman and child on the planet because it would definitely 100% solve their piracy problem?


There's a point at which the studios need to recognize that a part of their strategy is counter-productive and harming their customers. Just because it's a reaction to piracy taken by the victims does not mean that it's the right reaction or one that doesn't create it's own negative consequences. Consumers shouldn't put up with any behavior enacted at their expense just because it's done in the honorable name of fighting piracy.
 
#110 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb /forum/post/22023685


If that's really all you have to be outraged over, consider yourself lucky. And if you're really that upset, send the studios letters and vote with your wallet.

I have! I've paid a good bit of money to Slysoft for anyDVD, funding their continual efforts in cracking BD copy protection, in order to deal with HDCP annoyances with older PC hardware (another laughably ineffective stab against piracy... cracked literally in no time, leaving only legit users dealing with compatibility issues. you're really trying to tell me these people know what they're doing?), region-locking, and all this nonsense, even though I have zero interest in ripping discs. I didn't want to pay them, that's for sure, but that's what happens when companies do everything they can to make their product obnoxious to use.
 
#111 ·
How about another approach for a minute...


For those in the "these unskippable things don't deter theft" camp... do you have a better idea?


I'm not being a smart-a$$ here... I'm being serious. If you were brainstorming and it was your product and you wanted to deter theft, what ideas would you bring to the table?


I honestly don't have answers either. I'm sure all the warnings and security devices and the encryption is the result of the manufacturers/movie studios throwing everything against the wall and hoping something sticks... and as most of us agree, it doesn't look like the deterrents are really deterring.


So... any thoughts on a better way?


I know people don't like DRM for their digital copies that they purchase... DRM that basically attempts to tie the file to you and possibly to a specific playback device (though iTunes at least will let you play on a limited number of multiple devices rather than tie you to just one).


DRM, at least, permits you to make legal backups since those backups would still be tied to you and you couldn't share them and you can make a backup without breaking any encryption so it is all perfectly legal, say, to backup your iTunes folder or burn to a CD to restore in case of computer hard drive failure.


But would we want to have to register all of our Blu-rays before we could play them back? Software has been going this route, and some companies even require live internet connections while you use the software so that it can verify your license any time you run it... but I don't always keep my Blu-ray player connected to the internet and would hate to not be able to play a movie if my internet connection was down.
 
#113 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/22023853


For those in the "these unskippable things don't deter theft" camp... do you have a better idea?

Yes, I do. Remove the anti-consumer warnings, remote control disabling and other annoyances (and maybe put a little more effort and budget into designing a more appealing product that will leave the consumer feeling good about their purchase, not irritated) to help offset the losses to piracy by encouraging more purchases. People don't want to rip you off if they think you give a crap about their satisfaction.
 
#114 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDMe2 /forum/post/22023853


How about another approach for a minute...


For those in the "these unskippable things don't deter theft" camp... do you have a better idea?

Yeah. A better idea would be to quit waging war on the consumer. Make things easy. Make the store-bought versions at least as good as downloaded versions. Make it easy to buy and download a movie or TV series without having to jump through a million hoops. Make it so that a movie most people will watch once or twice doesn't cost $25.


Make it so certain distributors get favored treatment and you create a situation where it's difficult to impossible to legally obtain something that is easily obtained illegally. Make it so that you can buy and download (or easily stream) TV shows shortly after they air.
 
#116 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan /forum/post/22024437


Yeah. A better idea would be to quit waging war on the consumer..... Make it so that a movie most people will watch once or twice doesn't cost $25.

+1

If a new BD release was $9.99- why would anyone go through the time and trouble of downloading it? But at $25 per title- it's worth taking the 1.5-2hrs to DL and another 30min to burn to BD.


One common misconception I believe the studios would like us to blindly accept is the idea that every pirated download or copy is a lost sale to the studio- that's just not being realistic.
 
#118 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by replayrob /forum/post/22024642


One common misconception I believe the studios would like us to blindly accept is the idea that every pirated download or copy is a lost sale to the studio- that's just not being realistic.

If you go into a theater without a ticket and watch a movie "for free" is that a lost ticket sale? Yes. If you don't want to buy it in the first place then don't (and so yes it's not a lost sale), but the moment you have access to the film, it becomes a lost sale, because watching this film, whether it's on a dvd Blu-ray or at the theater or via iTunes etc, is not supposed to be free.
 
#119 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo /forum/post/22024742


If you go into a theater without a ticket and watch a movie "for free" is that a lost ticket sale? Yes. If you don't want to buy it in the first place then don't (and so yes it's not a lost sale), but the moment you have access to the film, it becomes a lost sale, because watching this film, whether it's on a dvd Blu-ray or at the theater or via iTunes etc, is not supposed to be free.

It's not a lost ticket sale unless the person would have otherwise spent the cash to go in.
 
#120 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan /forum/post/22024752


It's not a lost ticket sale unless the person would have otherwise spent the cash to go in.

The "person" (aka the criminal) in that scenario has still received a good or service that they were not entitled to. The criminal has still stolen, just as those who download music, movies, and tv shows for free are stealing. Obtaining goods or services that cost money, without paying said money, is called stealing. No amount of justification from kids/young adults with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement will change that.



I weep for the future...
 
#121 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb /forum/post/22024852


The "person" (aka the criminal) in that scenario has still received a good or service that they were not entitled to. The criminal has still stolen, just as those who download music, movies, and tv shows for free are stealing. Obtaining goods or services that cost money, without paying said money, is called stealing. No amount of justification from kids/young adults with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement will change that.



I weep for the future...

Yes, the person is a criminal. The crime they committed is not "theft" however.


Still, we weren't talking about that. Someone made the point that not every download is a "lost sale." I know people who have downloaded the equivalent of a million dollars worth of music - obviously they would not have actually bought that much.


The even bigger point here is that the content publication companies are attempting to wage a war on pirates, but are actually waging a war on the paying consumer. The pirates are completely unaffected by any of this nonsense.
 
#122 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan /forum/post/22024860


Still, we weren't talking about that. Someone made the point that not every download is a "lost sale." I know people who have downloaded the equivalent of a million dollars worth of music - obviously they would not have actually bought that much.

That's the problem. They shouldn't have had access to it.


...Bottom line when I want to watch a movie I pay for it, whether it's at the theater, on Blu-ray or iTunes, I have to pay for it. And while it's been said numerous times that these unskippable warnings won't stop piracy, they also won't stop me from purchasing my movies, cause that reasoning to me seems utterly stupid. I mean, 10 seconds...big deal.
 
#123 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan /forum/post/22024860


Yes, the person is a criminal. The crime they committed is not "theft" however.


Still, we weren't talking about that. Someone made the point that not every download is a "lost sale." I know people who have downloaded the equivalent of a million dollars worth of music - obviously they would not have actually bought that much.

I've never understood the entitled youth of today who seem to think it's perfectly fine to steal things that they claim they never would have purchased in the first place.


Again, I weep for the future...
 
#124 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb /forum/post/0


I've never understood the entitled youth of today who seem to think it's perfectly fine to steal things that they claim they never would have purchased in the first place.


Again, I weep for the future...

Its not just the youth that download you know? Consider how many people these days that buy bootlegs. Also consider that a large amount of tv show downloaders aren't "kids" either. I have a hunch that all the previous generations, if given the ability to, would download just as much as the "youth" of now.


This thread really is going no where! Just bickering :/
 
#125 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb /forum/post/22024887


I've never understood the entitled youth of today who seem to think it's perfectly fine to steal things that they claim they never would have purchased in the first place.


Again, I weep for the future...

Right there with you. I honestly for a second thought it was worth a conversation... but when people dig in with "it isn't stealing" and "if it was cheap or free then I wouldn't have to steal it" or whatever reason to justify why it is someone else to blame for them stealing (and they don't think they stole anyway)...


There's no point of debating further when someone entrenches with that unreasonable of a position. I've even asked "what if" it were their product for sale and their product that was being stolen... and they will assure you that they would let their product be stolen like that, apparently... but I guarantee they don't feel that way if push comes to shove. They will just never admit it until the table is turned.
 
#126 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnythan /forum/post/22024752


It's not a lost ticket sale unless the person would have otherwise spent the cash to go in.

Do you even realize how silly that statement is?


Obviously they weren't willing to pay for it or they wouldn't have stolen it!


That's like saying... robbing that bank was ok, because I wasn't going to otherwise go in there and make a withdrawal.


I wasn't going to buy your car from you, so going to your driveway and picking the lock and hotwiring it to take for a drive is ok... because I didn't steal anything from you since I wasn't going to pay you for it anyway.


Really?


Really?
 
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