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#1 ·
#1,730 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDFan1970 /forum/post/22006311


IMy SMP is connected to a NetGear GS108Tv2 switch (Switch 2).


That switch is uplinked to ANOTHER GS108Tv2 at the other end of my house (Switch 1).


*ALL* of my NAS devices (5 of them) are connected to yet another NetGear GS108Tv2 switch (Switch 3), which is uplinked to Switch 1.

We've had this discussion before. You are not using the usual consumer grade switches but managed switches. I use the unmanaged Netgear GS108 switches. I can readily believe the managed switches are compensating for the issues in the WD.


I have assumed it is a firmware issue with the Live-SMP because the previous Live+ model also had these issues early in its firmware cycle. However, I'm starting to wonder -- after 7 firmware revisions the problem still persists with the Live-SMP. Perhaps they changed some network interface hardware which is now causing the problem. Reports of 10/100 devices having problems when connected to a GigE switch are not unknown.


Again, I only see this problem with high bitrate BD.m2ts files -- i.e Avatar, Tranformers I,II,III, StarTrek 2009. Bitrates well north of 30Mbps.
 
#1,731 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson /forum/post/22007006


Reports of 10/100 devices having problems when connected to a GigE switch are not unknown.


Again, I only see this problem with high bitrate BD.m2ts files -- i.e Avatar, Tranformers I,II,III, StarTrek 2009. Bitrates well north of 30Mbps.

Yeah, I guess it's possible... I also have Star Trek 2009 in MKV format. No problems for me.


The only way to get at the root if the issue would be to do a network capture of your data streams and see what's going on...
 
#1,732 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by LVS /forum/post/21997736


1.08.17 appears to be a significant release. I have tried this player and took it back due to slow navigation when using the Media Library feature and BD stuttering when streaming MKV and ISO files via a network share. Can anyone comment if any of this has been fixed/improved?

I hesitate to post, as I only updated last night, but...


One thing I noticed was that navigation through my 800-odd films in Media Library appeared to be quicker.


Don't take that as gospel, it's just something I'm pretty sure I noticed.


I tend to move my cursor to the centre film on the page , then click next >>| to whizz through a whole page at a time. It used to 'stall' quite a lot, but last night I though it appeared smoother and faster.


I'll check again and report back.


Steve W
 
#1,733 ·
Kelson: If you can get into your NAS to look at TCP statistics, and you see a lot of TCP retransmits during streaming, then I would bet I know what's happening: The Gig Switch you're using doesn't have large enough buffers.


Any time a switch has a SOURCE connected at 1 Gig, and a Destination connected at 100 meg, the switch must be able to buffer all of the packets from the source to the destination because it has to transmit them at 1/10th the speed.


If it doesn't have enough buffer (128 kilobits is a good number) then it will discard packets. If it discards packets, then the TCP session has to recover from that.


And depending on how aggressive the TCP stack is, that recovery can drastically reduce performance.


According to the Specs posted on Amazon: On the GS108, there is a queue buffer memory of only 12 kbytes per port.


The GS108Tv2, by comparison has 10x that amount.




Not saying that IS the problem, but I suspect it is...
 
#1,734 ·
Thanks for the post Steve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecker /forum/post/22010254


I hesitate to post, as I only updated last night, but...


One thing I noticed was that navigation through my 800-odd films in Media Library appeared to be quicker.


Don't take that as gospel, it's just something I'm pretty sure I noticed.


I tend to move my cursor to the centre film on the page , then click next >>| to whizz through a whole page at a time. It used to 'stall' quite a lot, but last night I though it appeared smoother and faster.


I'll check again and report back.


Steve W
 
#1,735 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDFan1970 /forum/post/22010467


Kelson: If you can get into your NAS to look at TCP statistics, and you see a lot of TCP retransmits during streaming, then I would bet I know what's happening: The Gig Switch you're using doesn't have large enough buffers.

I'll have to go through the NAS menus an see if I can find that log. Your hypothesis sounds plausible, I'm not really that familiar with the internal workings of switches. But I have to keep coming back to point that the Live+, when run side-by-side with the Live-SMP, does not have this problem. So whatever the issue is, it's still within the Live-SMP.


Although it is a pain for some, at this point it is a curiosity for me since I do all my BD streaming via DLNA and would continue to do it that way even if the problem were fixed. When the time comes that I need to buy another switch, I will be taking your lead and buying the Netgear managed switches.
 
#1,736 ·
Bingo. Smoking Gun.


See the attachment. This is a snip of a wireshark capture from my WDTV reading an MKV file.


The TOP red box highlights a BUNCH of full-size packets being sent from my PC to the WDTV -- there are 45 in all! If they were all full-size packets, that'd be roughly 45*1448 bytes, which equals 65,160 bytes.


This is confirmed by looking at the last few packets, the one highlighted indicates "Bytes In Flight" is 63,712 bytes.


That's 5x the capacity of your switch's buffers.


I'd about bet you'd have a bazillion TCP retransmits.


BTW, most NAS devices won't have that in the GUI menus... You'd need to look in the CLI, something like this:

Code:
Code:
/home/> netstat -s
[snip]
Tcp:
    37834 active connections openings
    16511 passive connection openings
    0 failed connection attempts
    9999 connection resets received
    4 connections established
    605685 segments received
    572092 segments send out
    0 segments retransmited
    0 bad segments received.
    236 resets sent
[snip]
... my NAS is reporting zero retransmits. "0 segments retransmited"


So as to why the Live+ doesn't exhibit this issue, I've only one guess: It's not using optimized TCP connections like the SMP is using. I'd have to dig out my old Plus to see if that's the case.
 
#1,738 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by techflaws /forum/post/22013922


Nice work, WDFan. But what's optimized in this context and how does it mess up the transfer?

It's just conjecture on my part, really... My guess is that the Plus uses a much smaller TCP Window Size, which prevents as many "Bytes In Flight."


I would have to see KELSON'S Wireshark captures to see what's really happening; I don't have any unmanaged switches to test against.


If the TCP stack starts seeing lots of lost packets (due to buffer overflows), TCP is supposed to narrow the "Sliding Window" size, which reduces the amount of data being sent in any one instance, to prevent that from occurring. The TCP protocol should adjust itself to that. Perhaps the SMP is not doing that correctly, and that WOULD be a bug. But it would be such a low-level thing I doubt anyone ad WD would have a clue what to do about it.
 
#1,741 ·
Got a question related to my NAS and this box. I browse my NAS via videos > media library. In options, its set to update once an hour and to auto get content. However, dropping a new video into the NAS doesn't ever seem to update the library view. I have to click on the actual folder and rescan manually.


I was hoping I could drop content onto the NAS and it would automatically add it to the library and populate the info. Is that possible?


Is this the best was to use a NAS with the WDTV?
 
#1,742 ·
I got my WDLIVE-S a few days ago to replace a HTPC I had made from an old laptop. So far I am very happy with it, as setup was fast, albeit a little confusing, and it's been playing the movies, TV, music and photos I've tested just fine.


But there's one annoying problem which I have not discovered a solution to, despite reading 33 pages of this thread (so far). How do I get rid of the folders I don't want in the various categories, like Videos? When it scanned the laptop I'm using for streaming, it found and shows nearly every folder in the data partition's root directory. I only want Movies and TV shown, but I get Documents, Music, C, D, etc.


Where's the "remove folder" function?


Also, the "compling media library" has been running for 18 hours. Is that normal?
 
#1,743 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFoot48 /forum/post/22021183


I got my WDLIVE-S a few days ago to replace a HTPC I had made from an old laptop. So far I am very happy with it, as setup was fast, albeit a little confusing, and it's been playing the movies, TV, music and photos I've tested just fine.


But there's one annoying problem which I have not discovered a solution to, despite reading 33 pages of this thread (so far). How do I get rid of the folders I don't want in the various categories, like Videos? When it scanned the laptop I'm using for streaming, it found and shows nearly every folder in the data partition's root directory. I only want Movies and TV shown, but I get Documents, Music, C, D, etc.


Where's the "remove folder" function?


Also, the "compling media library" has been running for 18 hours. Is that normal?

First, the media library hangs when it's trying to compile a massive source. I found this out when trying to compile my TV folder; it made it about 70% of the way, then I realized it stopped even though the light was blinking. This next part should fix that.


Before starting the following, I recommend doing a system reset from the settings menu. In a simple button press, this will clear all the junk shares and info that you didn't want.


In order for WDTV to use only your Movies and TV folders as sources, System>Media Libray>Media Libray Manager for Network Share, then select your share type, location, and folder or folders. Once WDTV has added the preferred folders, it will sort your media types.


Once it has finished adding the sources, go back to the home screen and select "Videos." It should then ask what source to use. Furthermore, once in videos, you can press the yellow button and change sources.


This was from memory, so something may be a little off, but I'm quite certain it's correct.
 
#1,744 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson /forum/post/22015514


Even though I don't need it right now, you are making me temped to buy a GS108Tv2. It's only $25 more than a GS108.

I've installed a couple of these (at my house and another at brother's house) and they seem to work good. You can get them at the Newegg.

http://www.trendnet.com/products/pro...G-S80G&cat=115
 
#1,745 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bran81 /forum/post/22021631


This was from memory, so something may be a little off, but I'm quite certain it's correct.

And you were. Thanks very much. Following your instructions I cleaned up the mess created when I originally set it up, and the four folders I ended up assigning as my media sources took less than an hour to compile. Then I used the Sort button to further refine the choices for each media type.


What a great little device for less than $100. Digital optical sound will surely be better than the headphone jack out of the old Dell I had been using!
 
#1,746 ·
I just bought a WDTV Live, hopefully to get better Netflix quality than I can with my Sony's (a TV and two BD players, limited to 720p and 2.0 audio.)


I've barely got it set up and am just starting to play around with it. If this has already been answered, some links to some FAQ's would help. So far, the only oddball thing I discovered here is that holding down Power for a few seconds puts it into deep sleep.


The main question I have is if it's possible, while streaming Netflix (or maybe other services) to get some information about the datarate, resolution, etc...?
 
#1,747 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyross63 /forum/post/22022595


So far, the only oddball thing I discovered here is that holding down Power for a few seconds puts it into deep sleep.

It's not oddball, it's the difference between standby and power down. With the Live-SMP they introduced a standby mode that starts up very quickly. When you hit the power button you send the unit into standby. If you want to do a full power-down, push and hold the power button until it shuts off.
 
#1,748 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 /forum/post/22021685


I've installed a couple of these (at my house and another at brother's house) and they seem to work good. You can get them at the Newegg.

http://www.trendnet.com/products/pro...G-S80G&cat=115

That trendnet switch, although good (I have a couple of those) is an unmanaged (dumb) switch. The GS108Tv2 that WDFan1970 and Kelson are referring to is a managed (smart) switch, which allows for more configuration of the switch itself, along with monitoring traffic, etc. (independent of the router).
 
#1,749 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ive /forum/post/22025118


That trendnet switch, although good (I have a couple of those) is an unmanaged (dumb) switch. The GS108Tv2 that WDFan1970 and Kelson are referring to is a managed (smart) switch, which allows for more configuration of the switch itself, along with monitoring traffic, etc. (independent of the router).

Sorry ... I saw GSxxx and figured it was a normal switch.


So, if I was going to get my first managed switch...

1. Do you recommend Netgear or a Trendnet?

2. Then, which model?

3. Will a 8 port work (with other smaller Gigabit switches after it to have enough ports) or, do you really need a 16 port and home-run everything back to it?
 
#1,750 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ive /forum/post/22025118


That trendnet switch, although good (I have a couple of those) is an unmanaged (dumb) switch. The GS108Tv2 that WDFan1970 and Kelson are referring to is a managed (smart) switch, which allows for more configuration of the switch itself, along with monitoring traffic, etc. (independent of the router).

Is this it?

If so, reviews are mixed (some pretty bad).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833122381


Guess I'll have to read-up on Managed and then what Layer-2 gives you on top of that.
 
#1,751 ·
In my ongoing struggle to get my BD to play studder-free as a File Share from my NAS, I ran some experiments. As I noted before my desired setup is to run from my NAS (QNAP TS-219+) through my Gigabit switch (Linksys E3000) to the SMP. Below are plots of the BD movie "Taken" from my NAS's Resource Monitor showing the outgoing data rate of several different setups. First is the NAS (File Sharing) through the E3000 to the SMP. This stutters badly. BTW, the big drop in data rate toward the first is the fade to black between the 20th Century Fox Logo and the actual movie.


Note the erratic data rate as it stutters badly.


Next I replace my Gigabit router with a 10/100 router (Linksys WRT54GS).

This played perfectly.


Note the smooth data rate after the movie gets going at an even higher level than the Gigabit router.


I thought maybe the problem was a dsyfunctional interface between the Gigabit router and the SMP so I decided to place the two routers in series i.e

NAS to Gigabit router to 10/100 router to SMP. The result was unfortunately bad stuttering similar to the Gigabit router alone.


Note the erratic data rate again.


Next I reverse the series placement of the two router placing the 10/100 router at the output of my NAS then on to the Gigabit router. Guess what, I

got no stuttering, perfect play.


Note the smooth data rate again. I was a little surprised at this.


Finally just for reference, I turned off my file sharing and used my NAS's

Media Server (TWONKY) which has always played smoothly going through only the Gigabit router.


As expected it played great and note how the data rate is smooth again.


I am not quite sure what to make of this in determining exactly what is wrong. I was hoping I could "isolate" my SMP with the 10/100 router and

let the rest of my network be higher speed, but it didn't work out. Any thoughts?
 
#1,752 ·
I like the graphs. It makes it very clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsinco /forum/post/22027819


I thought maybe the problem was a dsyfunctional interface between the Gigabit router and the SMP so I decided to place the two routers in series i.e

NAS to Gigabit router to 10/100 router to SMP. The result was unfortunately bad stuttering similar to the Gigabit router alone.


Note the erratic data rate again.

I observed exactly the same effect during my testing when I too tried to isolate the Live-SMP to a 10/100 switch while keeping the NAS units and PC's all on the GigE switch. I thought the stuttering was a little less but still too bad and there was no audio.

Quote:
Next I reverse the series placement of the two router placing the 10/100 router at the output of my NAS then on to the Gigabit router. Guess what, I

got no stuttering, perfect play.


Note the smooth data rate again. I was a little surprised at this.

I never thought to try this. Probably because it would have been a configuration I wasn't interested in. I wanted to keep the GigE devices on the GigE switch.

Quote:
Finally just for reference, I turned off my file sharing and used my NAS's

Media Server (TWONKY) which has always played smoothly going through only the Gigabit router.


As expected it played great and note how the data rate is smooth again.

That is where I am today. All my switches are GigE (GS108's and GS105's - unmanaged). I have the DLNA server active on my NAS unit that stores BD.m2ts files and when I want to stream DLNA from my media PC (not often) I use Mezzmo. Playback has been perfect for BD.m2ts files of all bitrates using DLNA.


These problems with the Live-SMP/GigE switches/SMB shares, are only with high bitrate video files. In addition to BD.m2ts rips, I collect HD/5.1 TV captures from both my TiVo and HD Homerun. After editing out commercials, I save them as .m2ts files and put them on another NAS that only uses SMB shares. The highest bitrate TV shows come from CBS and are 18-19Mbps. The Live-SMP has no problems streaming these HDTV.m2ts files over a GigE network using SMB shares.


It would be great to see these tests run with a managed switch like the GS108Tv2 (which I think has been replaced by the GS108T-200NAS).
 
#1,753 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson /forum/post/22028678


....GS108Tv2 (which I think has been replaced by the GS108T-200NAS).

I think they're one in the same.


I think GS108Tv2 is the "Product Name" and the GS108T-200NAS is the "Part Number."


NetGear is definitely confusing in this regard...


If you access the GS108T-200 page, the NAS part is omitted. If you then click the SUPPORT page from there, it takes you to the GS108Tv2 page.


... and the Silk-Screening on the chassis itself is just "GS108T"


... and the part number on the label at the bottom is different again!


NetGear is definitely confusing in this regard...
 
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