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Am I the only one who doesn't like Ascend Acoustic's Sierra-1's??? - Page 9

post #241 of 450
I want the old thread back!

I am very excited to try this speaker. Thanks everyone, well... mostly everyone... for the excellent thread.
post #242 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post

Where do you see me pushing Dali on anyone? All I do is mention them and tell the person to try them out to see if it's their cup of tea. I don't get into the whole design and frequency response crap as every room is different. I mention a lot of different speakers so to even try and say I am a Dali fanboy is just trolling on your part.

On the situation with the furniture everyone just forgets that he has had his B&W for long time dealing with the same room and TV unit yet to him they still sound better than the Sierra. Room treatments can only do so much and in the end it's mostly all going to be about the speaker. You guys act as if a couple of panels here and there will improve things much more than what he is currently hearing. If that was the case then why don't you all just tell everyone to spend thousands on treating a room and putting $100 speakers in it. Some rooms will benefit a lot from treatments whereas others won't at all but most people don't want to spend hundreds of dollars and gamble with it. OP already has speakers that sound great in his room, but like everyone else who frequents these forums he is looking for more which in his case is not that hard to achieve.

Show me where it's written that a speaker that measures flatter than another just has to sound better? Yet this is the basis everyone loves to use when comparing the Sierra to any other speaker.

Where do you see people pushing the Sierra any differently than the way you post about the Dali's? Everyone in this thread has recommended other speakers from the postings I have seen on AVS. Maybe not in this thread, but others for sure. If you call them fanboys, then you are no different. That isn't trolling, that is a fact. Maybe you don't understand what trolling is.

It has been suggested that removing the entertainment center will help his B&W's too.....which may suffice and make him want to keep the B&W's. Until you experience a treated and untreated room.....you are just speculating.

Read the Harman/Toole studies in regards to the flat FR. Nothing sounds "better" it says that most prefer a flat FR.

You didn't answer my questions, but I think we know why.
post #243 of 450
I cant beleive expected such a compact speaker to play with any real authority.
post #244 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

I cant beleive expected such a compact speaker to play with any real authority.

Translation, please.
post #245 of 450
lol
post #246 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

He heh--I'm just not into HT enough, I guess. And too old to see the difference between an I and a 1. As for the 805 measurements, I've since determined that the problem is woofer breakup, not tweeter level. And looking at the stock woofer circuit, it's clear that it just can't cope with that problem. Also, this speaker was purchased in 2000 or a little later, and the review is from 1993 and references a bass equalization feature that these don't have. I'm not sure it's the same model. But it's the sound that's more important, and there's no question these sound like my description. Plus--the owner makes his living mastering sound tracks, and has measuring equipment. I just did a custom design for him using the Scan Speak 7" revelator and the 9700 tweet. It measured flat in my measurement room and in his studio.

Very cool.
post #247 of 450
Thread Starter 
I am very close to a decision. I'm trying to gather my thoughts so I can communicate them clearly and with the language understood by most on this forum. I'll be working on it over the next day or so.

I do however want to hopefully end the discussions on my room and entertainment center. By no means do I have any expertise regarding room treatments. I understand what they do, and why they may or may not be needed. Is my room "live"? Yes. Do I believe I hear anything in my music reproduction that the room is adding/taking away? No. Do I have an audio enthusiast friend that agrees with me? Yes. Do either one of us have ANY credibility? No.

I spent a lot of time moving the Sierra's around this past Saturday. From my results, the only thing that made a significant change in sound was listening to them near field. They took on a more airy presentation. At no time could I really negatively affect the sound stage width, but when I had the speakers in front of my entertainment center, I did notice that the stage had more depth. It wasn't significant, but I did notice it. Please understand that I also never placed the speakers anywhere I didn't think they could stay with the exception of in front of my entertainment center. I ended up with them at 21" off the front wall with about 5 degrees of toe-in (visually on the toe-in).

The near field listening had the speakers about 8' apart and about 10' from me (they were a little more than 3' in front of the entertainment center). As I said the Sierra's took on a more airy presentation which I thought was for the better. Moving them to where they are now reduced the air and made them sound more clear. If this makes no sense, I can't help that and I'm sorry. The midbass output was still good near field, but is better reinforced where they are sitting now with just a hint of being a little weak.

The sound stage is wide, high, and has more depth than my B&W's ever have, but again the stage is not as deep as when I had the Sierra's near field.

Overall, I've had the Sierra's in about 20 different combinations of placement and toe-in. I've at least proven to myself that I have them in a good location that allows them to present themselves in a very good way. I've also proven to myself that any early reflections are not costing me much of anything. Are there opportunities? Sure, but isn't there always? Diminishing returns is in full effect in my mind.

Anyway, stay tuned for my final thoughts...

P.S. My audio enthusiast friend was over this evening and we spent 3 hours listening to the Sierra's. B&W lost customer tonight.
post #248 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascend View Post

I am probably going to upset a few people with this post, it is a bit out-of-character for me but this was a perfectly reasonable and extremely informative thread up to a specific point.

Gus6464,

Seriously now, it is enough. The OP came to this forum with legitimate concerns. He wasn't "hearing" what others were and was curious as to why. Nobody is trying to *convince* the OP one way or another, not even I, and these are my products. People are offering advice and explanation, and this is EXACTLY WHAT THIS FORUM IS ABOUT.

I have had many correspondences with TJ thus far and I have been trying to assist him in making a decision, what to listen for, emotional involvement -- even some technical discussion as to why he hears differences between the speakers. Really no different than what has already been posted in this thread, only in a less public and, unfortunately, now a more civil manner (at the OP's request).

Why don't you ask him if I or anyone else is trying to convince or (love this term you used) *brainwash* him. Please, give TJ a bit of credit here

I have already offered to take the speakers back as I too had thought they weren't the right speaker for him either, but he is not quite ready for that yet as there are quite a few characteristics of the Sierra-1 that he really likes. His decision, his choice - and based entirely on his listening experience.

As I recall, it wasn't too long ago that YOU had a legitimate interest in the Sierra-1 as well... Why the hate? Seriously, exactly what have you brought to this thread, other than turning it from calm and peaceful towards one now becoming quite emotional?

Personally, I am just glad that TJHUB can look past posts like yours and make a decision for himself (which he is a strong enough individual to do so). Unlike a few here that draw conclusions on products they have never heard or worse, draw fanboyism conclusions based on honest advice from enthusiasts that have years of extensive experience.

Show me one post from an "Ascend Fanboy" that isn't a truism or helpful audio advice.

There is a world of difference between "Fanboyism" and helpful advice; it is really a shame that you don't see that you are guilty of the same crime as the people you are accusing Only in your case it is anti-fan (same emotion, Gus, hate-love - same thing) but at least the one's you accuse offer help.

The only person with anything to gain or lose with regard to what speakers TJ ends up preferring is me and I have already offered to take them back.

Why don't you answer this post gus6464 you are the most negitive person here I just recently got a pair of sierria's and I did replace a poor 2ch speaker (bic acoustech ht75) and I did listen to a pair of dali ikon6 they sounded good but I like the sierria's better. they have great sound in a beautiful package. by the way the bic acoustec 5.1 system is a good deal for a home theater for under $800 good luck tjhub finding the right speakers. and do you think the owner of dali or B&W would post there concerns.
post #249 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

I am very close to a decision. I'm trying to gather my thoughts so I can communicate them clearly and with the language understood by most on this forum. I'll be working on it over the next day or so.

I do however want to hopefully end the discussions on my room and entertainment center. By no means do I have any expertise regarding room treatments. I understand what they do, and why they may or may not be needed. Is my room "live"? Yes. Do I believe I hear anything in my music reproduction that the room is adding/taking away? No. Do I have an audio enthusiast friend that agrees with me? Yes. Do either one of us have ANY credibility? No.

I spent a lot of time moving the Sierra's around this past Saturday. From my results, the only thing that made a significant change in sound was listening to them near field. They took on a more airy presentation. At no time could I really negatively affect the sound stage width, but when I had the speakers in front of my entertainment center, I did notice that the stage had more depth. It wasn't significant, but I did notice it. Please understand that I also never placed the speakers anywhere I didn't think they could stay with the exception of in front of my entertainment center. I ended up with them at 21" off the front wall with about 5 degrees of toe-in (visually on the toe-in).

The near field listening had the speakers about 8' apart and about 10' from me (they were a little more than 3' in front of the entertainment center). As I said the Sierra's took on a more airy presentation which I thought was for the better. Moving them to where they are now reduced the air and made them sound more clear. If this makes no sense, I can't help that and I'm sorry. The midbass output was still good near field, but is better reinforced where they are sitting now with just a hint of being a little weak.

The sound stage is wide, high, and has more depth than my B&W's ever have, but again the stage is not as deep as when I had the Sierra's near field.

Overall, I've had the Sierra's in about 20 different combinations of placement and toe-in. I've at least proven to myself that I have them in a good location that allows them to present themselves in a very good way. I've also proven to myself that any early reflections are not costing me much of anything. Are there opportunities? Sure, but isn't there always? Diminishing returns is in full effect in my mind.

Anyway, stay tuned for my final thoughts...

P.S. My audio enthusiast friend was over this evening and we spent 3 hours listening to the Sierra's. B&W lost customer tonight.

You sure have taken the steps, and time, to get this done the right way
Regardless of which speaker you end up preferring you'll have a solid critical listening experience to call upon the next time a speaker comes along that grabs your interest. I find the more I compare speakers the better listener/auditioner I become, or think I become
Another factor to consider is the center speaker. I find a single Sierra to be one of the best I've heard. Dialogue is spot on and has good dispersion across all listening positions. Not sure if it makes a big difference but I use mine in the vertical position, works great on multichannel music disc, etc...

Anyway happy listening,

dc
post #250 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

The near field listening had the speakers about 8' apart and about 10' from me (they were a little more than 3' in front of the entertainment center).

Typically "near field" refers to speakers that are around 3' away, mid field is 6' to 7'. At 10' you are clearly in the "far field" when the room is contributing heavily to the sound of the speakers. What's nice about near field is that most of the sound you hear is dominated by the direct output of the speaker.
post #251 of 450
I've translated Raymond's comments to yoda-speak.

Believe expected such a compact speaker to play with any real authority cannot.
post #252 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I've translated Raymond's comments to yoda-speak.

Believe expected such a compact speaker to play with any real authority cannot.

Thanks for clearing that up.
post #253 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I've translated Raymond's comments to yoda-speak.

Believe expected such a compact speaker to play with any real authority cannot.

post #254 of 450
WTH HAHA! Why is that Hutt all furry?
post #255 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Translation, please.

I meant to say I cannot beleive he expected such a compact bookshelf speaker to play with much sonic authority.
post #256 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

I meant to say I cannot beleive he expected such a compact bookshelf speaker to play with much sonic authority.

Well then why didn't you say it?
post #257 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I've translated Raymond's comments to yoda-speak.

Believe expected such a compact speaker to play with any real authority cannot.

LOL!
post #258 of 450
"I" before "E" except after "C." Just messing with ya!
post #259 of 450
Although, he already said the Sierras play surprising loud and clear and fill the room just as well as the B&Ws. The problem I believe, is the difference in the voicing of the speakers.
post #260 of 450
if i bought a new set of speakers i would expect it to be a significant upgrade. apparently he does not.just send them back and be glad with the money saved.
as with my ascends i noticed right away the upgrade over my klipsch. never liked that tinny sound anyway.
post #261 of 450
Hey gus,

Why didn't you call Mark a fanboy when HE suggested that the speakers were a bit far apart as seen in his post below?

I'm sure he's heard at least 2 or 3 sets of speakers in his life...maybe we should ask Mark why he's such an Ascend fanboy, spreading rubbish like that.

btw if you actually spent a few minutes and READ the thread, YOU would see that the OP had to come to the conclusion that the BW sound he was accustomed to was grating!!
He came to this CONCLUSION ON HIS OWN, and THAT is why he started investigating an upgrade..
Get it now?

Considering this IS an ASCEND thread, and BTW a thread about DISLIKING the Sound, I believe that YOU have been the most Un-Neutral party of all, and in case YOU missed it, Dave has offered to take the speakers back already- no questions asked, and without any attitude at all.

Dave also asked you a question, which it seems to me that you must regard as rubbish, as you haven't answered his post yet.

This is one of the main reasons I don't even ENTER the speaker forum anymore, you and your cronies always looking to start with garbage.

Good Day

m

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark L. Schifter View Post

Well - at the risk of jumping into a thread where I don't belong --- may I humbly suggest moving them closer together...

13 feet is awfully far apart for most speakers couple closely to you...

In fact - I might ask you to experiment a bit more... Try sitting very nearfield to the Sierras and then the B+W's... (I think I know what will happen next)...

Room interaction and placement in general IS key... I have gotten to know the Sierra pretty intimately and I simply love this speaker... It's very special - and you can quote me on that...

OK - I'm really fond of it... but more, this speaker is so dang musical - and these results has been lovingly "found out" after listening to countless speakers...

Give it a whirl... you can never really know a speaker until you are at least 50 hours in...

Good luck with this...

Humbly...

mls
post #262 of 450
Gus, please stop being ridiculous. That was uncalled for.

Let's steer this thread back on topic. HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAVE HOOOOOOOOOOOO! There...good to go. Okay, no more off topic bickering please! I used all of my strength to steer this thing back on track (look how long that heave ho is), so please respect that. LOL!
post #263 of 450
Yeah, totally uncalled for.....
Ridiculous even.....

Stating facts(YEAH you know, FACTS- just read if I'm so wrong, and ridiculous) is riculous and uncalled for?

What?

BTW- I want the OP to find whatever it is he is looking for, if the sierra doesn't do it for him, then he should look elsewhere, as Dave stated in one of his posts.
post #264 of 450
My apologies. I quoted Muzz and meant to quote Gus. I need more coffee...
post #265 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by muzz View Post

Hey gus,

Why didn't you call Mark a fanboy when HE suggested that the speakers were a bit far apart as seen in his post below?

I'm sure he's heard at least 2 or 3 sets of speakers in his life...maybe we should ask Mark why he's such an Ascend fanboy, spreading rubbish like that.

btw if you actually spent a few minutes and READ the thread, YOU would see that the OP had to come to the conclusion that the BW sound he was accustomed to was grating!!
He came to this CONCLUSION ON HIS OWN, and THAT is why he started investigating an upgrade..
Get it now?

Considering this IS an ASCEND thread, and BTW a thread about DISLIKING the Sound, I believe that YOU have been the most Un-Neutral party of all, and in case YOU missed it, Dave has offered to take the speakers back already- no questions asked, and without any attitude at all.

Dave also asked you a question, which it seems to me that you must regard as rubbish, as you haven't answered his post yet.

This is one of the main reasons I don't even ENTER the speaker forum anymore, you and your cronies always looking to start with garbage.

Good Day

m

I'm confused... am I the "YOU" as noted above... I can't tell...

Thanks...

mls
post #266 of 450
I'm pretty sure that's directed towards Gus.
post #267 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

I'm pretty that's directed towards Gus.

Just to clarify, are you pretty
or pretty sure?

Sorry couldnt help but spot the typo.

Back to the thread at hand. For all its worth, I love the sierras and am buying 3 more now totaling 6!
post #268 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark L. Schifter View Post

I'm confused... am I the "YOU" as noted above... I can't tell...

Thanks...

mls

Hey Mark,

I'm not sure what you are asking me.

I used your input/Post near the beginning of the thread, to make a point.

My post was NOT directed AT YOU.

m
post #269 of 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post

Just to clarify, are you pretty
or pretty sure?

Sorry couldnt help but spot the typo.

Back to the thread at hand. For all its worth, I love the sierras and am buying 3 more now totaling 6!

Oh man, I can't believe I wrote that.
post #270 of 450
Muzz. I think I made a mistake. I think I quoted you but meant to quote the other guy (gus...the antagonizer). Sorry dude.

I'm confused now...better go back fix it.

Edit: all is fixed. I am sincerely sorry Muzz. That was a total blunder on my part man. Sorry to everyone else as well. You all probably thought I was drunk (I wasn't). LOL!

Lesson learned - no more speed reading for me.
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