Originally Posted by TJHUB
Norah Jones's "Come Away With Me" album: The track "Don't Know Why" sounded wrong. The piano doesn't sound like a percussion instrument. It sounded more electronically produced. It had no metallic quality that I was used to hearing. My kids play piano and I'm very familiar with the sound. The B&W's produce it well, the Sierra's do not. But the worst thing of all is that Norah's voice was piercing and made me squint my eyes a little. Her voice was not sweet or warm and sultry. Instead her voice was smooth and very strongly midrange pronounced. Again, I'm sorry if this sounds moronic. I'm trying here.
Just a note about Norah Jones Come away with me. I listened to it a bit yesterday and today, which was somewhat tedious, but I just don't happen to agree that it's a great sounding cd. Right the first track, it seems that you can hear her voice clip (mic during recording?) during the loud voice passages... Or maybe it's distortion, I'm not exactly sure what it is, but there seems to be a sort of fatiguing harshness to her voice. IMHO, and I say this knowing many will disagree since I couldn't the number of times I've heard people use it to demo speakers, I think it's really not a great recording, and although some speakers will somewhat fix it with faithful reproduction then you can hear it, and I don't think it's a playback flaw... I think it's really the way her voice sounds on the recording. Sure some speakers can color it, somehow 'fix' it, but imho, speakers shouldn't 'fix' recordings, it should simply play them accurately. You can find a ton of other recordings where voices sound simply gorgeous, I just don't think NJ CAWM is one of them, well not track 1 or 3 at least... To me it sounds somewhat off, not just on Sierras, different headphones too...
Originally Posted by Randybes
I would defer to Dennis on all things having to do with measurements. I also think he is very sensitive to the way instruments (especially acoustic instruments) should sound. I wish I had those kinds of ears-but alas I don't.
I just don't advise him to go to the ultra high end forum and have to deal with that physics guy-I won't go back up there.
Just an observation concerning the "sound pretty much the way it measures"
The trouble is, where do you listen to them, in an anechoic room?
Unless you're listening in a really controlled environment that you're intimately familiar with, it's next to impossible to discern 'speaker sound' vs room... I measured the Sierras in my room and depending on the speaker placement and mic position, it will measure and sound very differently.
In my room, the only EQ adjustment I ended up making was a +1dB at 2khz and +0.5dB at 2.5, and when that's done, it's pretty much flat (considering inroom) from 600hz and up at the listening position.
Looking at the Ascend measurements, the dip seems to be at like 2dB from about 3khz to 3.3khz. Soundstage's seems it a little bigger, from 3khz to like 4khz, again around 2dB at worst.
So in the end... Can you really tell a 1-2 dB depression which spans around 1khz in a room? Room interactions will have a lot more effect than a small 1dB dip like that... My room is moderately treated, mainly first reflections & absorption panels at key locations, so not a studio but really not bad as far as home listening rooms go imho, and to be totally honest, the RTA & Mic said there was a 1dB dip there, but I couldn't tell you if it was the case or not. I've A/B'd more than a couple of times EQ'd vs bypassed, and 1dB dip (well as it turns out in my room) as it ends up is pretty inaudible to me.
My experience is basically that you're hearing the room just as much as the speakers. And even when you're familiar with the room, the way the speakers interact with the room due to placement (distance from rear wall, side walls, toe in, distance between speaker) and the listening position (distance from speakers, listening position in room, not directly in center, etc..), it's just insanely difficult to really get the perfect picture of the speakers, it's basically impossible IMHO. I could place the speakers/mic a certain way and get a measurement, move them slightly and get very different measurements... By just throwing speakers in a room you'll probably get nothing which looks like anechoic measurements... So how can you tell when the speakers are sounding like in an anechoic room and that you're not hearing room interaction?
So sure, you can somewhat compare speakers in the same room, but then again, just by moving them around or changing the listening position, you can drastically change the sound you hear. So how do you know which is the real
speaker sound? IMHO, not many would be able to detect a 1-2 dB dip in a speaker like Sierra (around 3khz) in room... So just an observation concerning the "sound pretty much the way it measure"
. In my experience, speakers very rarely sound the same way they measure. What you basically always end up hearing is reflections, room modes, gains, nulls... A whole lot of stuff other than how the speaker measures in an anechoic room at 1m and 1 watt...
Here's an example of measurements in room I remember seeing. http://stereophile.com/floorloudspea...21/index4.html
Now that I'm rereading it, the comments he makes seems to be pretty much parallel to what I'm trying to say