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Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Owners Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 178

post #5311 of 12670
Can someone please explain to me how some people NEVER experience IR and some experience it almost immediately??

What is this a lottery ticket to getting the "perfect" TV?

Sorry, I am not trying to rant, just seeking answers.

I am VERY interested in buying the PZ85 but I play video games pretty hard core (some times 8-10 hours a day) and am a little worried about this.

I dont want to buy an LCD as it has problems with gaming itself in regards to motion lag, but if my gaming is too hardcore for the plasma, I might have to get an LCD (which I seriously dont want to do)

If someone could help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.
post #5312 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubson View Post

Can someone please explain to me how some people NEVER experience IR and some experience it almost immediately??

What is this a lottery ticket to getting the "perfect" TV?

Sorry, I am not trying to rant, just seeking answers.

I am VERY interested in buying the PZ85 but I play video games pretty hard core (some times 8-10 hours a day) and am a little worried about this.

I dont want to buy an LCD as it has problems with gaming itself in regards to motion lag, but if my gaming is too hardcore for the plasma, I might have to get an LCD (which I seriously dont want to do)

If someone could help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.

EVERYONE will have IR because it comes from all kinds of sources. I dont think gaming would be a big issue, especially if you paused every now and then and ran the scrolling bar for a bit.

Its burn in that people should be worried about.
post #5313 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

EVERYONE will have IR because it comes from all kinds of sources. I dont think gaming would be a big issue, especially if you paused every now and then and ran the scrolling bar for a bit.

Its burn in that people should be worried about.

Thanks for the response.

Should I be worried about burn-in then with my gaming?

Around 75% of my gaming is fighting games, which have constant timers and life bars at the top of the screen, but at the same time, Plasma > LCD for fighting games because even the slightest motion lag can lose you the match.

I think I am in a very tough situation here arent I...
post #5314 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubson View Post

Thanks for the response.

Should I be worried about burn-in then with my gaming?

I tend to play 80% fighting games, which have constant timers and life bars at the top of the screen, but at the same time, Plasma > LCD for fighting games because even the slightest motion lag can lose you the match.

I think I am in a very tough situation here arent I...

How long would you play before taking a break?
post #5315 of 12670
Actually dont worry about it.Ive read where people did a 48 hour torture test to induce IR. It took 24 hours of tv viewing to make it go away, but it went away. Burn in would be very hard create.

I think even at 8 hours you dont have to worry.
post #5316 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

How long would you play before taking a break?

Sometimes hours.

And another problem, a lot of the old school games I buy and play ALOT on the 360 and PSN are in 4:3...

I have AIM if you would rather communicate that way, aswell.

But thanks again for the reply.
post #5317 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubson View Post

Sometimes hours.

And another problem, a lot of the old school games I buy and play ALOT on the 360 and PSN are in 4:3...

I have AIM if you would rather communicate that way, aswell.

But thanks again for the reply.

Honestly, I would not sweat it. I watch a 2.5 hour movie and have IR bars from the letterbox. Have left the TV paused for 3 hours (damn wife actually) and had pretty good IR. Both go away with some regular viewing and really can only be seen when the screen is blank anyways.

Plasmas have come a long way, this is a great tv, so I would not sweat it. If you are that worried about it, you can take breaks and use the scrolling bars. Also, avoid playing the same game day after day, swap em around.
post #5318 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Honestly, I would not sweat it. I watch a 2.5 hour movie and have IR bars from the letterbox. Have left the TV paused for 3 hours (damn wife actually) and had pretty good IR. Both go away with some regular viewing and really can only be seen when the screen is blank anyways.

Plasmas have come a long way, this is a great tv, so I would not sweat it. If you are that worried about it, you can take breaks and use the scrolling bars. Also, avoid playing the same game day after day, swap em around.

What about all of the 4:3 viewing/gaming?

Constant hours of a 4:3 game with lifebars/timers seems like a big double wammy to the TV.

I just need to know basically if I am too hardcore of a gamer for this tv, maybe I should get a LCD, and that maybe these tv's are better for people who want the best movie quality...?
post #5319 of 12670
You might check some gaming forums, but from my reading I still dont think Id worry about it.
post #5320 of 12670
I thought I might have pulled the trigger a little early with my 46pz85U when it came out after seeing Panasonic drop the price by $200-$400 on their EPP site but after watching the US chase down France in the relays last night in HD, it was worth every penny!
post #5321 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubson View Post

Thanks for the response.

Should I be worried about burn-in then with my gaming?

Around 75% of my gaming is fighting games, which have constant timers and life bars at the top of the screen, but at the same time, Plasma > LCD for fighting games because even the slightest motion lag can lose you the match.

I think I am in a very tough situation here arent I...

check out my longer post on pg 180 if you haven't - I've done ALOT of gaming on this thing (4+ hours with the same game). No IR whatsoever. The longest stretch was with Call of Duty 4, with EXP bars, compass, and radar box in the same place the whole time for 4 hours. No IR at all. I think what kept IR from happening was the 30-second - 1 minute break between matches when the game was matchmaking. You'll have the same small breaks in between fights, yes?

Either way I'm still a bit shocked that some people have problems with IR and some have none at all. I guess I'm chalking my 0 IR up to luck and a good break-in in the first 100 hours.

I bought this TV for gaming primarily and am not disappointed in the least. Good luck with whatever display you get.
post #5322 of 12670
Hi all, just pulled the string last night on a great deal at Fry's. I have seen lots of posts refereing to baseline of Tom's Settings, but cannot find them. Can someone post what message # they are in?

Thanks
post #5323 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by BosoxDanJ View Post

Hi all, just pulled the string last night on a great deal at Fry's. I have seen lots of posts refereing to baseline of Tom's Settings, but cannot find them. Can someone post what message # they are in?

Thanks

Here they are:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1019763
post #5324 of 12670
thanks!
post #5325 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwbdc View Post

I thought I might have pulled the trigger a little early with my 46pz85U when it came out after seeing Panasonic drop the price by $200-$400 on their EPP site but after watching the US chase down France in the relays last night in HD, it was worth every penny!

I would echo the same sentiment...stayed up until 1:00 AM watching the USA Men's Gymnastic Team winning the Bronze...PLUS...Michael Phelps, etc.

That alone is worth the price of this TV!
post #5326 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones10 View Post

check out my longer post on pg 180 if you haven't - I've done ALOT of gaming on this thing (4+ hours with the same game). No IR whatsoever. The longest stretch was with Call of Duty 4, with EXP bars, compass, and radar box in the same place the whole time for 4 hours. No IR at all. I think what kept IR from happening was the 30-second - 1 minute break between matches when the game was matchmaking. You'll have the same small breaks in between fights, yes?

Either way I'm still a bit shocked that some people have problems with IR and some have none at all. I guess I'm chalking my 0 IR up to luck and a good break-in in the first 100 hours.

I bought this TV for gaming primarily and am not disappointed in the least. Good luck with whatever display you get.

Have you considered the possibilty you just dont notice the IR or heavily look for it as much as others?

because i honestly dont think it's possible to have "no IR whatsoever" with alot of the same logos in place for 4+ hours. I'm wondering if some of the people more concerned with IR might notice something that you dont. As it is, making such a big claim definetly would seek to confuse some people (not saying you're lying or anything, just as i mentioned before, maybe you're not looking as hard as others that at least claim to get some IR).
post #5327 of 12670
Since I bought my 46PZ80U two months ago I haven't seen any IR cases with varying program viewing, some 4:3 with gray side bars, some 4:3 with black side bars, some 2.35:1 movies with black letterbox bars, some 16:9 full screen viewing with various logos.

I did the first 100hour burnin with reduced settings and using the burnin full screen color images on an SD card slideshow. I check with the gray images from the SD card once in awhile to look for any varying screen levels but its always been uniform all the times I've checked. I found I don't need a high contrast level, so I keep the picture setting at 58 with Cinema mode, that might help since I haven't seen any IR on my unit.
post #5328 of 12670
IR is easy to find. Leave a still image paused for 30 minutes, then shut off the source (dvd or dvr) and leave the tv on, especially with the lights out.
post #5329 of 12670
Hey guys, i'm new here, I just bought myself a pz80 a few days ago and i've been reading quite a bit of this thread and have learnt quite a bit. I just have one question that's been bugging me. I own a Nintendo Wii and I bought component cables for it (to make it go 480p from 480i) and when I play Smash Bros. you can really see jagged edges on the characters. Other tv's are able to solve this by turning off 'Vertical Edge Enhancement' like the Toshibas, but is there any way to fix this on a pz80? Some insight would be greatful, thanks in advanced.
post #5330 of 12670
IR (not burn in) will also depend on how you have the picture set such as standard/vivid or whatever. I like it bright so of course I got it jacked up and IR will show up rather quickly with station logos or the PS3 xmb. If you can watch the tv in standard you will hardly see IR. Usually you really can't see IR during watching tv and it does go away. If you really want to test for IR download the break in dvd and watch the white screen you will see the IR lol.
post #5331 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by dohspc View Post

IR (not burn in) will also depend on how you have the picture set such as standard/vivid or whatever. I like it bright so of course I got it jacked up and IR will show up rather quickly with station logos or the PS3 xmb. If you can watch the tv in standard you will hardly see IR. Usually you really can't see IR during watching tv and it does go away. If you really want to test for IR download the break in dvd and watch the white screen you will see the IR lol.

I know some people use the break in thing in different ways, some with the SD card and some with a disc.

I was just curious though, as i have never actually burned a regular playable DVD disc, is it just drag and drop? the same for the SD card?
post #5332 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by spincut View Post

Have you considered the possibilty you just dont notice the IR or heavily look for it as much as others?

because i honestly dont think it's possible to have "no IR whatsoever" with alot of the same logos in place for 4+ hours. I'm wondering if some of the people more concerned with IR might notice something that you dont. As it is, making such a big claim definetly would seek to confuse some people (not saying you're lying or anything, just as i mentioned before, maybe you're not looking as hard as others that at least claim to get some IR).

I'm looking for it - my friend has the 50pz770u and it's very noticable (he didn't do the break-in and I'm not sure what his settings are). He works from home and watches ESPN all day long and the IR from the tickers is noticeable.

Again, I chalk it up to the fact that the game I play goes to a difference setup screen after every match. Matches are about 10 minutes long, followed by 2-3 minutes of a totally different setup screen. Constantly switching between the screens must be enough to keep IR from happeninng.
post #5333 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones10 View Post

I'm looking for it - my friend has the 50pz770u and it's very noticable (he didn't do the break-in and I'm not sure what his settings are). He works from home and watches ESPN all day long and the IR from the tickers is noticeable.

Again, I chalk it up to the fact that the game I play goes to a difference setup screen after every match. Matches are about 10 minutes long, followed by 2-3 minutes of a totally different setup screen. Constantly switching between the screens must be enough to keep IR from happeninng.


yeah but that must not be the only thing you do the with the TV. Heck, i also have a friend with a 77u, and he often has the XMB fainlty showing up when he turns the tv on initially (probably from the last time he was using it before).

All i know is, even with this years TV's it is still unlikely that absolutely no IR shows up ever for someone with post break in settings.
post #5334 of 12670
I'm having some less than desirable audio issues with my new PZ80U. It seems that occasionally the right speaker shuts off for no good reason. It happened a time or two before, but only for a minute or so and then it came back. But this time, it went out, and didnt come back for some time. I turned the balance all the way to the right, and if I cranked the volume full bore (100) it would equal the volume of the left speaker at 11. I thought it was my cable. I've changed channels, switched between HD and SD, and still the same. I shut off my TV for a bit, and came back and it was fixed. But, it's obviously going to happen again. I'm not sure if it was the source or not, didnt switch to DVD to check, but I"m pretty sure it's not the source. Any suggestions?
post #5335 of 12670
Hi

Anyone with a download-link of the service manual for PZ80 ? Please :-)
post #5336 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by spincut View Post

yeah but that must not be the only thing you do the with the TV. Heck, i also have a friend with a 77u, and he often has the XMB fainlty showing up when he turns the tv on initially (probably from the last time he was using it before).

All i know is, even with this years TV's it is still unlikely that absolutely no IR shows up ever for someone with post break in settings.

You are probably right. I have only owned it for 14 days or so. Perhaps in the future I will see some. So far so good though.
post #5337 of 12670
Hi, I thought I should share my findings with everyone and I hope this information helps. (I have the panasonic 42pz85b and I'm sure anyone googling will find this information eventually as for its unique pattern of words).

For the best reproduction of any movies on most displays... you must consider the frame rate and multiply it until your monitor or hdtv supports that hertz rate.
Example (1 fps = 1 hertz):
23.976 fps = 47.952hz (2:2 pulldown), 71.928hz (3:3), 95.904hz (4:4), 119.88hz (5:5).
24 fps = 48hz (2:2 pulldown), 72hz (3:3), 96hz (4:4), 120hz (5:5).
24.976 fps = 49.952hz (2:2), 74.928hz (3:3), 99.904hz (4:4), 124.88hz (5:5).
25 fps = 50hz (2:2), 75hz (3:3), 100hz (4:4), 125hz (5:5).
29.97 fps = 59.94hz (2:2), 89.91hz (3:3), 119.88hz (4:4).
30 fps = 60hz (2:2), 90hz (3:3), 120hz (3:3).
50 fps = 50hz (1:1, no pulldown required), 100hz (2:2).
59.94 fps = 59.94hz (1:1), 119.88 (2:2).
60 fps = 60hz (1:1), 120hz (2:2).

Notes:
Further details look up wikipedia for 'Telecine'.
Pulldown method simply makes duplicates of a frame in the same amount of time for a better looking image.

The best for 23.976 fps on a CRT is 72hz (3:3) or 120hz (5:5). (CRT blacks is still the best IMHO)

Panasonic PZ series uses a 2:2 pulldown and looking at the above you may select the correct hertz for your fps movies.

Panasonics - Intelligent Frame Creation (IFC) adds an extra frame to any source to make it look smoother and this is most likely used for 23.976 fps movies to 24.976 fps (or 25 fps) for 50 or 100hertz.
This may introduces a audio hasten that needs to be delayed long enough for the extra frame to finish.
(23.976 fps movie /1000= 0.023976 ms/ frame). The 24ms hasten in a 24.976 fps may not be noticeable for a 23.976 source.

An interesting feature in the Panasonic PZ series is the 480hz sub-field drive; which is actually a frame divided into 4 locations for processing and analysing and multiplied by 2 (double scan) for a total 8 sub-field and each field works at 60hz*8=480hz. So the 480hz is a gimmick and the real meaning is:
The pictures sharpness scans a frame in 4 parts x2 (double scan) to produce a smooth, crisp or sharp image frame then connects them with the remaining frames to create the desired quality and this also maybe using some sort of 'anti-aliasing' x4 like hq4x (4:1).

Also when it comes to configuring the plasma set for movies:
set the aspect ratio to 4:3 on a 16:9 source for borders and set side panels to off for pure black then match the black borders brightness to the panels borders for the perfect brightness. (and restore the side panels to high again)

To set the colours; increase it to the highest then lower it slowly until the fine details in the colourful movie can be seen and once you found the most colourful with full details visible then your ready for a cinematic expirence. (sorry cant explain it any better)

I'm very much satisfied with my panasonic plasma (with a free 5 year warranty) for its cinema mode that produces quality almost near crt blacks and I would prefer a pioneer kuro's perfect crt blacks but it is expensive.
post #5338 of 12670
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbegum View Post

Hi, I thought I should share my findings with everyone and I hope this information helps. (I have the panasonic 42pz85b and I'm sure anyone googling will find this information eventually as for its unique pattern of words).

For the best reproduction of any movies on most displays... you must consider the frame rate and multiply it until your monitor or hdtv supports that hertz rate.
Example (1 fps = 1 hertz):
23.976 fps = 47.952hz (2:2 pulldown), 71.928hz (3:3), 95.904hz (4:4), 119.88hz (5:5).
24 fps = 48hz (2:2 pulldown), 72hz (3:3), 96hz (4:4), 120hz (5:5).
24.976 fps = 49.952hz (2:2), 74.928hz (3:3), 99.904hz (4:4), 124.88hz (5:5).
25 fps = 50hz (2:2), 75hz (3:3), 100hz (4:4), 125hz (5:5).
29.97 fps = 59.94hz (2:2), 89.91hz (3:3), 119.88hz (4:4).
30 fps = 60hz (2:2), 90hz (3:3), 120hz (3:3).
50 fps = 50hz (1:1, no pulldown required), 100hz (2:2).
59.94 fps = 59.94hz (1:1), 119.88 (2:2).
60 fps = 60hz (1:1), 120hz (2:2).

Notes:
Further details look up wikipedia for 'Telecine'.
Pulldown method simply makes duplicates of a frame in the same amount of time for a better looking image.

The best for 23.976 fps on a CRT is 72hz (3:3) or 120hz (5:5). (CRT blacks is still the best IMHO)

Panasonic PZ series uses a 2:2 pulldown and looking at the above you may select the correct hertz for your fps movies.

Panasonics - Intelligent Frame Creation (IFC) adds an extra frame to any source to make it look smoother and this is most likely used for 23.976 fps movies to 24.976 fps (or 25 fps) for 50 or 100hertz.
This may introduces a audio hasten that needs to be delayed long enough for the extra frame to finish.
(23.976 fps movie /1000= 0.023976 ms/ frame). The 24ms hasten in a 24.976 fps may not be noticeable for a 23.976 source.

An interesting feature in the Panasonic PZ series is the 480hz sub-field drive; which is actually a frame divided into 4 locations for processing and analysing and multiplied by 2 (double scan) for a total 8 sub-field and each field works at 60hz*8=480hz. So the 480hz is a gimmick and the real meaning is:
The pictures sharpness scans a frame in 4 parts x2 (double scan) to produce a smooth, crisp or sharp image frame then connects them with the remaining frames to create the desired quality equivalent to that of a 480hz and this maybe using some sort of 'anti-aliasing' x4 like hq4x (4:1).

Also when it comes to configuring the plasma set for movies:
set the aspect ratio to 4:3 on a 16:9 source for borders and set side panels to off for pure black then match the black borders brightness to the panels borders for the perfect brightness. (and restore the side panels to high again)

To set the colours; increase it to the highest then lower it slowly until the fine details in the colourful movie can be seen and once you found the most colourful with full details visible then your ready for a cinematic expirence. (sorry cant explain it any better)

I'm very much satisfied with my panasonic plasma (with a free 5 year warranty) for its cinema mode that produces quality almost near crt blacks and I would prefer a pioneer kuro's perfect crt blacks but it is expensive.

what are your settings in cinema set at?
post #5339 of 12670
Also turn off overscan and do not use auto aspect ratio as it will make the picture distorted.
(PC DVI connected via HDMI it really makes it visible to see the distortedness).

Configurations can vary, best to rely on your own eyes with some of the methods mentioned above for colour and brightness.

As for sharpness... 2 steps from the left seems to be good all round, 2-3 steps from the left for PC standards, blu-ray movies and 2-5 steps from the left for 3D games.

Set contrast to the highest for cinema mode for the best possible black levels then work down with brightness, colour, sharpness, colour balance (temperature) should be cool for the best possible whites and colour management should be enabled for non-animated content & used to produce more vivid colours but sometimes it does'nt work when blacks turn out dark greenish (I prefer it off).

P-NR should always be off unless your watching a non-hd broadcast that has contours around the edges.
post #5340 of 12670
So, what are your specific settings fbe?

Not sure I agree with maxing out the pic setting in cinema.
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