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Master thread for Panasonic plasma not turning on - Page 34

post #991 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by unspun01 View Post

Furthermore, I checked the so-called "12V standby" supply located on pins 8 and 10 on connector P12 (and SS12)...Mine measures 5V. There seems to be some discrepancy between the service manual (page 35) and page 43 of this document:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24963802/1...Plasma-Display

What should this voltage be? 12V or 5V?

My guess is that the +12V is mislabeled in the service manual, and should be +5V. If you follow the block diagram (page 37), Pin 10 of P12 connects to a 5V source.
post #992 of 1978
@tomwil:

I agree with 5V. My measurements show 5V, and the relays on my board are 5VDC.

The 12V may be mislabelled (probably a carryover from previous 9th or 10th generation panasonic plasma service manuals and troubleshooting guides that may have used 12V somewhere).

Any idea on how Q301 and Q302 are meant to function?

Or what the function of the 27V zener diodes ZD301 and ZD302 (MA4270NMTA) are?

I presume diodes ZD301 and ZD302 don't really do anything until a "reverse bias" voltage of 27V is present...And even then they may only serve to limit the maximum voltage applied to the "gates" of Q301 and Q302. Resistors R301 and R302 probably limit the current and power dissipated by the zeners...

If you recall from my previous post #987, I measured momentary voltages of about 15V on each "gate"... This is likely not enough to turn on the 27V zener diodes, and therefore, they are probably not important to the general operation of this circuit.


I'm also trying to figure out how power control module MC301 operates, but I don't know what some of the pins are?

Based on external connections from the schematics (and comparison with the similar Vsus module MC201), I think these are plausible:

GH = "Gate, high-side transistor"
SH = "Source, high-side transistor"
GL = "Gate, low-side transistor"
SL = "Source, low-side transistor"
SG = ground (it's connected to ground on MC301 and the similar module MC201)
Bias = ???
Vaux = ??? (connected to PC...not connected externally.
PC = power control??? (connected to Vaux...not connected externally)
RESET = not used
I+ = ???
ON/OFF = ??? (connected to SG)

But where is module MC301 getting its power from? From "Bias"? Other?

Anyone know what voltage should be expected at the "BIAS_PFC" line?

Anyone have any ideas?

Does Techniwizard still visit this forum? Perhaps you have some Panasonic insight as to how this thing functions...

Thanks in advance.
post #993 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt-man View Post

TH50PZ800U, bought from Amazon January 2009. No PC plugged in to it EVER. 2 HDMI inputs (cable box, DVD), 1 AV (Wii system). Started to crap out a few weeks ago (wouldn't turn on unless unplugged from the wall for several minutes). Now it's just gone, won't turn on at all. blink blink blink blink blink blink blink blink blink blink

I bought the extended warranty from Panasonic. The tech who came out was not the friendliest, said he had to order the parts then he'd be back. My wife called Panasonic back and gave them an earful (I love Sicilian women).

In order to keep the young wolves at bay, I went out yesterday and bought a Samsung UN40D6000 LCD to hold them over until the Panny is fixed. When it is, the Sammy will replace our 10 y.o. Sony 32" analog CRT in the family room. Assuming I can get the CRT out of the house.

I love the plasma picture but this is the second repair call in 2 years. Disappointing for sure.

Okay, all fixed. The chain of events: the big, bad repair guy comes and replaces the A Board (TNPH0767ACS). Voila: no worky. He calls Panasonic, they have him test a couple pins on the top board...he says he'll be back with a new power supply. He comes back 4 days later with ETX2MM704MGH...and it works! Thank goodness we bought the extended warranty. His write-up that he left me for parts and labor was about $730. His comment: you now have 2/5 of a new TV. What a maroon!
post #994 of 1978
Bought a 50" VT25 from Best Buy (I'm at work so I don't have the manufactured date, I can post it later) and set it up for the 100 hours of break-in using Evangelo2's Thumbdrive Files.

I'm still using my 46" PZ80 while the VT25 breaks-in so its in a temporary position and plugged into an old, cheap surge protection power bar I had laying around (not sure if that makes any difference but perhaps worth mentioning). Nothing at all was connected to the set other than a Kingston USB stick containing only the break-in images.

After about 70-80 hours of straight break-in time (never turned off) I noticed that the far left fan was making way more noise than usual. I concluded that it may be over-heating so I turned it off for the night. The next day it wouldn't turn back on and gave me the 10 blinking lights message. Leaving it unplugged from the wall for 30 minutes didn't fix it.

Obviously I can just return it, but VT25s are becoming scarce and GT30s are still a few hundred dollars more here in Canada.

But my question is thus; was leaving it on for nearly 80 hours straight a bad idea? I just wanted to get through the break-in period as quickly as possible...

Thanks
post #995 of 1978
Manufactured date of the 50" VT25 from the above post is:

October 2010

Btw, I'm hearing that it IS recommended to leave it on for 100hrs continuously. But some people say to give it a break about halfway through... would like to know everybody's thoughts here though.

Thanks again
post #996 of 1978
Add me to the list. Last night I got the 11 blinks. Will not turn on. TC-P50VT20 June 2010 build date. I've had the unit since 1/6/2011. Technician coming next Tuestday.
post #997 of 1978
I have a TH-50PZ800u that I purchased in November of 2008 from Plasma Concepts. It has been a great set with zero issues... Until this past weekend. I am getting the 10 blinking power LED symptom. I've done enough research to know that this indicates that the A board has an issue, but I have not yet looked into getting a new one. The set is long out of warranty and my nearest authorized service person is miles away. I am fairly handy and am considering finding the A board (part # TNPH0731ACS) and replacing it myself.

Here's the twist in all of this. I don't know if anyone else has experienced this or not; I have not seen anyone mention it. The TV powers up fine when you turn it on for the first time in a day. Once it is warmed up however, if you turn the set off and then try to turn it back on any time over the next few minutes to couple of hours, it will not power up and shows the blinking led 10 times. If I unplug it, unplug the single HDMI connector that I am using and let it sit for maybe 10 minutes or so, I can get it to come back on --- maybe not on first attempt, but after a few tries, it will power back up and all is fine. If I turn it off normally at night and then return to it the next day after I get home from work, it will turn on fine.

Has anyone else experienced this kind of situation? I'm certain that there is an issue in there somewhere, but it is really mystifying as to why it would be so condition-specific. Does it still sound like I need to get the A board replaced?

For the record, the single HDMI cable I have connected to the TV runs to an A/V receiver. I am not using a HTPC or anything like that. I have a TiVo, a Xbox, 2 DVD players and a Blu-ray connected to the receiver. Nothing other than the receiver is connected directly to the TV.

I have only posted on here a couple of times, but I thought I would try the best AV forum out there and see if I could get some helpful advice. It would be very much appreciated.
post #998 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worlock View Post

I have a TH-50PZ800u ... I am getting the 10 blinking power LED symptom. Does it still sound like I need to get the A board replaced?

This troubleshooting guide, page 28 should help you determine what board is actually defective.
post #999 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuse311 View Post

Add me to the list. Last night I got the 11 blinks. Will not turn on. TC-P50VT20 June 2010 build date. I've had the unit since 1/6/2011. Technician coming next Tuestday.

I had the 11 blinks as well a little while back on my 54VT25. It was one of the fans not spinning. I basically just stuck a long screw in and spun it manually and it started working again. Guessing that eventually it's going to die for good and I'll have to get that fixed.
post #1000 of 1978
Howdy all,

About a month ago, I experienced my first dose of my Painarsechronic TH50PZ80 TV not switching on once warm and being presented with 2 flashing red lights.

Of course the problem was intermittent and the repair agent I lugged the TV too could find no problem Had to take time off work, organise a trailer, box it, pay $99 for the quote and the TV was scratched by the repair agents just to rub salt in to my wounds

Had no problems 'til a few nights back when my wife switched it off and on again within a few minutes after the TV had been on several hours.

The last 2 nights before going to bed I have switched the TV Off and then immediately on again and copped 2 blinking lights so at least it's now consistent. Unplug the power cable, leave for 10 minutes or so and she fires up.

From reading other posts, it sounds like I'm in for a nightmare regarding tracking the exact problem (despite 2 blinks suposedly meaning it's a dead 15v SOS D ) and getting it fixed but if anyone has experienced the identical symptoms and successfully fixed the problem, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case)

I've only had the TV 2 years and as much as I like the Panasonic Plasma's image, I won't be buying PainArseChronic products again as recall Panasonic Home Theatre Projector owners having many problems a few years back and being told to suck eggs by Panasonic!

Panajunk, I hope you manage to resurect your set and will be interested to read how you get on!

Cheers with Beers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panajunk View Post

Hello Mccourt, I've had the exact same problem as you for about a month now and tracking down parts has been quite a challenge. I have the 50" version of your TV, TH-50PZ80U.

I've already replaced the D board which was supposed to take care of the 2 blink problem - and it didn't! I still have the 2 blink - 10 blink problem. The 10 blink is supposed to be the main power supply, so now I've ordered a refurbished main power supply and will try that.

If the power supply doesn't fix it the TV is going to the junk yard and I'll never buy another Panasonic product as long as I live.

It's going to be a week or so before I get the board, so stay tuned and I'll let you know how I make out after I change the power supply.
post #1001 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuse311 View Post

Add me to the list. Last night I got the 11 blinks. Will not turn on. TC-P50VT20 June 2010 build date. I've had the unit since 1/6/2011. Technician coming next Tuestday.

11 blinks indicates that there is a fan problem. You may have a bad fan, but more realistically, one of more of your fans has accumulated a lot of dust and the fan has difficulty spinning up from standstill...Get some compressed air and blow it out, or disassemble the TV and clean the entire set of dust.

This should solve your problem, and you can do it for free.
post #1002 of 1978
Hello,
I am a huge fan of Panasonic Plasmas, but 34 Pages of people reporting major failures on relatively new Plasmas has caused me pause.

I own an SXRD (KDS-55A3000) that Sony graciously offered to replace with a KDL-55EX500 after 2 Optical Blocks failing within 10 Months, but not before they replaced the OB (12-30-10).

I Emailed Sony Listens after begging the Sony Call Center to replace the TV back in December to no avail. On a lark, I Emailed Sony Listens and was offered a free LCD and got to keep my recently Repaired SXRD.

I never would have purchased an LCD with my own money, but have been shocked at just how much progress LCD's have made in the past few years.

I follow the LCD Forums closely and I am sorry to say that there are no Threads remotely close to this one on the LCD Subfouum about Sony LCD's Not Turning On.

With Plasmas requiring more Energy to create a Picture, it stands to reason that the Power Supply would be an Achilles Heel. Especially, if Panasonic skimped by Subcontracting on the Construction of Power Supplies.

As for those who have had bad Sony experiences, my 8 year old KV-34XBR910 is going strong and my EX500 has been fine so far. The OB failures on my A3000 were weird in that both times it was a Pencil thin green line that went from the top of the Screen to the bottom, but not a green blob.

I truly believe Panasonic makes the best available Panels currently available so please do not take this as an pro LCD Post. Rather, to say that LCD's are suffering from this many problems like these is simply not true. Believe me, with all of the animosity towards Sony, if there were widespread issues with their LCD's, there would be scores of Threads about it as there are on the SXRD Threads.
AD
post #1003 of 1978
I made some progress with my TH42PZ85U power supply

If you recall, my TV showed a 10 blinks error as soon as it was plugged in. The fans would not even spin because the 15V supply would not start...

After some testing, I found 27V zener diode ZD302 was shorted in both directions... This prevented the 15V supply from starting...

I replaced ZD302 and my TV no longer blinks 10X, but when I press the power button both relays click, the 15V supply comes up and the fans spin for 1-2 seconds, but then the power supply clicks off and the TV now blinks 2X...

Blinking 2X indicates missing P15V, or shorted P15V, or wrong diagnostic by D board but I still suspect the P-board...

There is an LED on each of the SC and SS boards, but those LEDs do not light up when I press the power button...

Does anyone have any advice regarding the 2X blink code?
post #1004 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by unspun01 View Post

Blinking 2X indicates missing P15V, or shorted P15V, or wrong diagnostic by D board but I still suspect the P-board...

Obviously you are more advanced than I am, but you might want to continue to use the troubleshooting hints on the document you referred to earlier, pages 52-53, and this document, pages 9-11.

Don't count out a short on the SC or SS boards.

Thanks for keeping us informed of your progress!
post #1005 of 1978
10 Blinks when plugged in on TH-50PZ80U

Fixed by installing refurbished from ebay member koshevo.

Less than a week turn around. Good communication from seller and fair price. Just thought this might help other looking to purchase a board on ebay.

Thanks
insanespiv
post #1006 of 1978
I wanted to add my own experience to this thread after finding it to be a valuable resource.

I have a 46pz85u that was purchased in July 2008, with no extended warranty. My plasma got the dreaded 10 blinks in February 2011. I read this entire thread and followed it for about 3-4 weeks. Finally decided to get a volt meter and following the troubleshooting manuals listed in this thread, took apart my Panny myself.

Using the guide I was able to determine that it was my P board - ETX2MM704MGL - that was defective. I scoured the internet for weeks, including all the possible sources listed in this thread, for a replacement board but could not find one. Having just lost my job, I did not want to spend $900+ on a new plasma and because I like to gamble once in a while, I decided to take a chance and get mine refurbished through one of the sellers on eBay, specifically shopelectronicz. Cost was $119.00 plus shipping and handling.

I was pleased with the transaction and when I received the board back on Monday April 18 exactly one week after I sent it out, I put it back in the Panny and it started right back up! I was very happy and my plasma has been working like a charm since then... until yesterday! The dreaded 10 blinks occurred again yesterday and today. Both times, the 10 blinks occurred after I turned off the Panny and would turn it back on again after 5-10 minutes. Both times, I unplugged my Panny and let it sit and cool down for over two hours and it would turn back on and continue to work.

I am fully expecting my plasma to die completely as it did the first time, but I won't let it go without additional attempts to get it back up and working. My next step will be to contact ModusLinkPTS which was suggested by user panajunk as a possible vendor who would refurbish the board. Their cost is $125 and I don't think that is entirely unreasonable.

Personally, I would be willing to take one more chance and spend a relatively small amount of money in order to try and get my Panny to work for an additional 2-3 years.

I will try and update my progress in this thread.
post #1007 of 1978
An update to my 11 blink saga. Technician diagnosed bad fan over phone. Part is now on back order for 2-3 weeks. I've called Panasonic and the repair center and nobody seems to care. I'm starting to boil over at this point.
post #1008 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuse311 View Post

An update to my 11 blink saga. Technician diagnosed bad fan over phone. Part is now on back order for 2-3 weeks. I've called Panasonic and the repair center and nobody seems to care. I'm starting to boil over at this point.

If it is just a fan, there is a way to bypass that fan that will get the TV working again. It will mean opening the back of the TV and basically unplugging the bad fan and shorting out a connector. At least that should get you going again until the technician shows up, and is easily undone prior to his arrival.

I have to give the warning that it may void your warranty. If still interested, let me know.
post #1009 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwil View Post

If it is just a fan, there is a way to bypass that fan that will get the TV working again. It will mean opening the back of the TV and basically unplugging the bad fan and shorting out a connector. At least that should get you going again until the technician shows up, and is easily undone prior to his arrival.

I have to give the warning that it may void your warranty. If still interested, let me know.

Thanks for the offer. I really don't want to open up the tv as it's only 4 months old and still under warranty. I'll try some compressed air and see if that gets the bad fan going again until it can be replaced.
post #1010 of 1978
I have just recently fixed a 10 blink, and now a 2 blink problem.
The 10 blink was the MC301 module (more later).
The 2 blink was the MC201 module.

The TEA1611 chip on those stand up boards wants 13.5 volts to pin 13 to start up. If the chip is leaking and requires too much current, it won't get to 13.5v.

On the 10 blink failure, the sm cap going to pin 13 was leaking. It was a 1uf.
On the 2 blink failure, it is the actual chip that is leaking (TEA1611).

Here is an easy test.
With the board on the bench and the big caps discharged, apply a low current supply (less than 2ma is needed) to pin 12 of the module (MC201/301). The negative side of the power supply used should be connected to the hot common. Those 3 white .1ohm resistors in a row is an easy spot to attach.

Increase the voltage and watch pin 7 on the module. Pin 7 will track the input voltage. Before you hit 15v, the module will turn on if good (s/b less than 14.5v). Pin 7 will output a square wave. It may come on as you increase the voltage further (don't go above 20v). But, the higher the voltage needed, the worse the module is.

I can give more info on the module if needed.
Hope this helps!

P.S. An easy temporary test is to attach a 4.7kohm resistor from pin 12 on the module to pin 13 on the chip (TEA1611) or to the cap that goes to pin 13. That should give enough extra current/voltage to get the chip started.
post #1011 of 1978
Hi kdh05:

Thanks for posting your details.

My TH-42PZ85U had 10 blinks due to a shorted zener diode (ZD302) in the 15V circuit containing module MC301. Replacing the zener allowed my 15V supply to start up. Module MC301 was ok.

Now the optical audio output glows red and the fans spin for 1-2 seconds but then the TV shuts off and blinks 2X...No other activity or raster...The LEDs on the SS and SC boards do not light up.

Further P-board troubleshooting shows the "Vda" and "Vsus" supplies do not start - I suspect if one of these supplies does not start the TV will blink 2X (even though the service manual suggests it is a 15V supply error)

I found transistor Q401 (2SK3607) in the "Vda" supply was shorted source-drain and thus I replaced it. Still 2X blinks. Not causing 2X blinks, but one more thing that needed repair...

With a magnifying glass I inspected module MC201 (Vsus circuit) and found a failed smd component on the back of module MC201 (lower left side on rear of MC201).

The component is damaged and I cannot identify it or read the marking on it. It is a black part. The component is very small and easy to miss with naked eye. MC201 is very similar to MC301, with similar black components in similar locations...

Functioning module MC301 has 2 diodes very near each other (both within 1/4" of each other, both banded on one side, both have marking "A").

Comparing failed module MC201 to similar module MC301 suggests the smd part is a likely a diode (band on one side, marked with an "A").

Can you confirm that the actual part markings on both black components (lower left hand side of the rear) of MC201 are "A" like on MC301?

Is this part a common diode? or a zener? What diode can I substitute for it? I can probably scam a smd diode from a scrap circuit board, or I can use a conventional leaded diode...

I look forward to your reply.
post #1012 of 1978
Hi Unspun,

Those diodes appear to be just regular blocking diodes. Any common diode should work.

It doesn't sound good that one of them is bad, though. If it is the lower of the two, you might be okay. It goes to common. The other goes to a non-inverting pin on the chip. If enough current went through that diode, surely, the chip is bad also.

I think you can check the MCx01 out of the board by applying 16v to pin 12, and use pins 8 & 9 for a ground. Check pin 7 for an output. If you use a scope, you should see a square wave. If you use a meter, it should track pin 12, more or less, and then cut in half when it turns on.

Hope this helps.
post #1013 of 1978
Tech came today and found 1 bad fan in my VT20, but replaced them all as a precautionary measure. He told me to hit them with a can of compressed air
every 3-4 months. Fix took 9 days from initial call to Panasonic.

Nice to have her back!!!
post #1014 of 1978
After using the service manual and troubleshooting guides posted in this thread along with some testing with a multimeter, I have concluded that it appears I have a faulty P-Board on my TH-50PZ800U. Part # is ETX2MM704MGH. Unfortunately, I am not finding anyone who seems to have this part (or the N revision) available. ShopJimmy is out as are all the other part vendors I found through a Google search.

My next option, I suppose, is to use one of the ebay repair guys. I found one seller (koshevo) who apparently can supply a replacement in either the H or N version.

Does anyone know of any sources other than ebay to try and locate this part (short of going to Panasonic directly, of course)? Has anyone had success doing business with these ebay guys? Not really sure where to turn next.
post #1015 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by mccourt19 View Post

Add another victim to this list. My beloved 42PZ80U got the 2 blinks today. Read this, unplugged it for 2 hours and replugged it in still got 2 blinks. Unplugged HDMI and held reset button and got 10 blinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unspun01 View Post

I replaced ZD302 and my TV no longer blinks 10X, but when I press the power button both relays click, the 15V supply comes up and the fans spin for 1-2 seconds, but then the power supply clicks off and the TV now blinks 2X...

I had this same problem with my TH-50PZ800U. When hitting the power button the fans would spin briefly before dieing out. After some amateur diagnosis, I thought the P board was the culprit, but since I couldn't find any place to purchase it online I ended up calling a local TV repair shop. After checking it out, the tech came to the same conclusion as me. He ended up replacing the P board, and that fixed the issue. Total cost for the fix was $287 ($56 for the actual cost of the board they ordered from Panasonic, the rest for tax/labor/shipping).
post #1016 of 1978
Well, I got the 7 blinks of death over the weekend. And after perusing over this thread (which was VERY helpful), I was ready to open up the TV to diagnose the bad module myself. I decided to call Panasonic first because someone posted how they got service even though warranty was long gone. When I called, the agent immediately said that no warranty and "don't trust what you read on the internet". But after checking my model, she had to eat her own words because there's a special note that if it's the SC module, then they'll fix it for free even beyond the 1 year warranty (I bought mine in Jan '08).
Service guy came this morning with SC module in hand. He checked for shorts but didn't find any. But since he has the module anyways, he installed it to try. Unfortunately, it didn't fix it It ended up being the SU module, and from his experience, that means the panel itself is bad. He said that he's replaced a couple and within minutes/days it would die again since there's actually something wrong with the panel. He said that this is the first service call he got recently (with the 7 blinks) that wasn't the SC module.
Something else I learn from him is that the firmware upgrade that he performs after replacing the SC module (if it were to fix my issue) is on another module, to fix some timing issue. He agrees that upgrading the FW would prevent SC failures, but I guess Panasonic didn't deem it important enough for them to service all the TVs. Which probably also means that you can't do the FW upgrade yourself.

Anyways, chances that Panasonic will replace the panel is slim to none. I'm just surprised that this TV died in 3 years! Not like I'm stressing it. What gives? I think I'm going to buy a Samsung next.
post #1017 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk11 View Post

I think I'm going to buy a Samsung next.

All brands of TV manufactures will have their percentage of failures within the first few years, no one is immune.

Techlord
post #1018 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk11 View Post
Well, I got the 7 blinks of death ... It ended up being the SU module, and from his experience, that means the panel itself is bad. He said that he's replaced a couple and within minutes/days it would die again since there's actually something wrong with the panel. He said that this is the first service call he got recently (with the 7 blinks) that wasn't the SC module.
It's a $60 gamble, but you could try to replace the SU board yourself, and see if it really is the panel that is bad. The SU board itself could have gone bad, and not the panel. Or, the SC board with the old (bad) firmware could have caused the SU board to go bad. For $60, it might be give extra life for your TV.
post #1019 of 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk11 View Post
.....I think I'm going to buy a Samsung next.
FWIW, Samsung's plasma failure rate is more than double that of Panasonic's, and Samsung's build quality, quality control, and warranty service is poor.

The 42PZ700U was Panasonic's first attempt at a small 1080p plasma and was admittedly about the most unreliable model they've ever made. I still cringe every time i turn mine on (it's been in a bedroom for the past few years) and i accept the fact that one day, perhaps, it will blink at me instead of coming on. Don't let the PZ700U's issues scare you away from the brand, they are widely regarded as the most reliable TV you can buy but like all modern electronic items, there is always a small failure rate.
post #1020 of 1978
An update to my dilemma:

I did some additional troubleshooting using a multimeter and the flow charts provided in the service manual and came to a new conclusion: The K board. The positive is that the K board is only a $20 part. The negative is that I have to darn near dis-assemble the entire panel to get at it. I went through the diagnosis three times and arrived at the same conclusion. While I am not all that confident that replacing just the K board will solve my problem, that is the course I am taking. I got the board from ShopJimmy and plan to try and get to work on the set Friday or Saturday.

I am hopeful that it will solve my 10 blink problem, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't. I guess the next step will be the A board.
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