or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › $200 Blu-ray players this year expected says Sigma Designs VP of Strategic Marketing
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

$200 Blu-ray players this year expected says Sigma Designs VP of Strategic Marketing - Page 2

post #31 of 166
Thread Starter 
Menu sluggishness and time to play advanced discs is a major issue now for most BD players I have seen, with the sole exception of the PS3.

Before BD is mass market those performance issues with BD-J must be solved and prices come down.

Most consumers are not as forgiving as first adopters on interface issues and would freak on the long load times for BD-J content that some current BD players have.
post #32 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

It is not a tall order, just a question of how long you want to wait. Since you say you bought an A1, I would assume you are an adventerous soul willing to put with up a few things as long as the picture looks great.

Do you like watching movies in HD? My guess is that neither one of us can tell the difference between the Warner titles on HD DVD and Blu-ray that have the same encodes. If you liked it on HD DVD, you will like it on Blu-ray.

Think about it.

Yes I was "an adventurous soul", at the time. I'll tell you why I bought the A1. Back in the late summer of 2005 my 56" RPCRT 4:3 TV packed it in and bought a 65" RPCRT HDTV to replace it within a week. My 9-year old DVD player would only output 480i from the component-out, the HDTV's upscaling was poor to say the least. Therefore I was in the market for good up-converting player. After doing a lot research on the web and going to local stores I decided to wait for HD DVD and Blu-Ray. Spec wise BD was my picking BUT when April 2006 rolled around BD had a lot of issues at the time and HD DVD reviews on the up-converting was excellent which was an important factor. Here in Canada the A1 was released in May 2006 and bought with one HDM, at the time the A1 was the BEST addition to my HT with superb up-converting and jaw dropping HDM! Toshiba was also going an excellent job releasing firmware update for added features and bug fixes and I said before my A1 plays every new feature added to HDM which I bought almost 2-years ago, something 1st gen BD players are unable to do unless it's game console. Plus I preferred the studio support of HD DVD at the time.

Now times have changed and I have over 100 HDM with more to get during the year, therefore I don't have the real "need" for BD just yet. I will be keeping my eye on these forums but I don't see myself buying into BD until 2009 if things go well.

BD has been given the red carpet to make BD the "next" format, I just hope they don't trip and fall.

...Angelo
post #33 of 166
$200 is still too expensive IMHO to reach a mass market. DVD really didn't start to take hold until $150 (I remember from having my DVD player from way back in the early days of 1998). Someone needs to throw something together cheap and I just hope its 2.0 compliant.

That said if you want a cheap player for some reaon they're out there. Just look. I got my Sony BDP-S1 for the bedroom for $160 and saw a Samsung for $99 the same day.
post #34 of 166
Personally I don't care about $200 players. I already have 1 BD player and will probably be purchasing another if it is profile 2.0 and does not cost more than the $499 I paid for my BD-10A.

J6P will probably get a bit more interested in the $200 players but the HDM prices at the B&M stores need to come down more as well. Cheap players are not going make the reluctance to getting into HDM go away if media prices remain where they currently are.
post #35 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrly View Post

$200 is still too expensive IMHO to reach a mass market. DVD really didn't start to take hold until $150 (I remember from having my DVD player from way back in the early days of 1998). Someone needs to throw something together cheap and I just hope its 2.0 compliant.

That said if you want a cheap player for some reaon they're out there. Just look. I got my Sony BDP-S1 for the bedroom for $160 and saw a Samsung for $99 the same day.

DVD was doing very well at $250. I remember in 2000 buying a machine for over $300 which did not even include progressive scan (that feature was more like $500). My 1997 machine was much more expensive.

We need to keep the new product adoption cycle concept in mind. You don't jump to a mass market immediately, you go through stages. With about 3% effective penetration for Blu-ray, we are still very early, about to enter the "early middle" phase. If we manage to get to 15% by the end of 2008 we might be doing very well.
post #36 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

DVD was doing very well at $250. I remember in 2000 buying a machine for over $300 which did not even include progressive scan (that feature was more like $500). My 1997 machine was much more expensive.

We need to keep the new product adoption cycle concept in mind. You don't jump to a mass market immediately, you go through stages. With about 3% effective penetration for Blu-ray, we are still very early, about to enter the "early middle" phase. If we manage to get to 15% by the end of 2008 we might be doing very well.

DVD was also a revolutionary product compared to VHS. HDM is more evolutionary. DVD was new and cool, it was a shiny little disc and you could skip around the disc and never had to rewind or adjust the tracking. Blu and HD-DVD are really just a "better" DVD player. The only practical improvements are better PQ and AQ, and it is backwards compatible. I look at it kind of like S-VHS (or D-VHS for that matter). S-VHS was an evolution of VHS, it offered better PQ and AQ but never really took off. It was essentially an improved version of what people already had and outside of the HT enthusiast crowd (people like us) no one really cared.

I hope that it does catch on and HDM becomes the norm. Greater volume equals lower prices and better products available to me. In order for there to be mass adoption there has to be a compelling reason. Convenience and price are the two most obvious, currently HDM does not outperform DVD in either.

I didn't mind spending a lot on DVD. It was new and different and CONVENIENT. I'm having a harder time with HDM, and I'm one of the AV geeks who actually cares about PQ and AQ.
post #37 of 166
$200..probably profile 1.0.
post #38 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakesh.S View Post

$200..probably profile 1.0.

1.0 players can no longer be introduced. All new players going forward need to be at least 1.1. Each generation of players gets cheaper to produce (true of any electronics product). I would think that it would be easier for Funai to sell their upcoming 1.1 player at $200 than for Sony, Samsung, or others to sell their current 1.0 players at $200 (other than close-outs and clearance).
post #39 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzoz01 View Post

DVD was also a revolutionary product compared to VHS. HDM is more evolutionary. DVD was new and cool, it was a shiny little disc and you could skip around the disc and never had to rewind or adjust the tracking. Blu and HD-DVD are really just a "better" DVD player. The only practical improvements are better PQ and AQ, and it is backwards compatible. I look at it kind of like S-VHS (or D-VHS for that matter). S-VHS was an evolution of VHS, it offered better PQ and AQ but never really took off. It was essentially an improved version of what people already had and outside of the HT enthusiast crowd (people like us) no one really cared.

I hope that it does catch on and HDM becomes the norm. Greater volume equals lower prices and better products available to me. In order for there to be mass adoption there has to be a compelling reason. Convenience and price are the two most obvious, currently HDM does not outperform DVD in either.

I didn't mind spending a lot on DVD. It was new and different and CONVENIENT. I'm having a harder time with HDM, and I'm one of the AV geeks who actually cares about PQ and AQ.

Excellent post! So it seems moving to a different media format, like VHS to DVD is more successful then S-VHS or even D-VHS. Plus many J6Ps are very happy with up-converted DVDs with DVD prices being so cheap. Myself I like what HDM has to offer.

...Angelo
post #40 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo913 View Post

Excellent post! So it seems moving to a different media format, like VHS to DVD is more successful then S-VHS or even D-VHS. Plus many J6Ps are very happy with up-converted DVDs with DVD prices being so cheap. Myself I like what HDM has to offer.

...Angelo

I love what HDM has to offer, but once I got Reon based SD-DVD upconversion, that premium is not worth quite as much $$ to me anymore. I still really want it, but I think I can hold out a little longer. Plus I still have my HD-DVDs to help hold me over until the next wave of new players hits.
post #41 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzoz01 View Post

I love what HDM has to offer, but once I got Reon based SD-DVD upconversion, that premium is not worth quite as much $$ to me anymore. I still really want it, but I think I can hold out a little longer. Plus I still have my HD-DVDs to help hold me over until the next wave of new players hits.

Speaking about Reon up-converters I just ordered another XA2.

...Angelo
post #42 of 166
Java and slugishness have been married since java was introduced.
post #43 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo913 View Post

Speaking about Reon up-converters I just ordered another XA2.

...Angelo

To bad you won't get lossless audio with upconverting SD DVD's.
Guess you'll have to settle for good ol' 5.1 Dolby at best.

Upconverting get's you 35-40% of the HDM product at best.
post #44 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

To bad you won't get lossless audio with upconverting SD DVD's.
Guess you'll have to settle for good ol' 5.1 Dolby at best.

Upconverting get's you 35-40% of the HDM product at best.

post #45 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Nice.

Even the cheapest of HD DVD supporters should be able to cough up $200 for a Blu-ray player.

Or maybe not.........

I'm certainly one the most "Bargain minded" consumers when it regards HD media and I have been saying that once there is a Blu-Ray player at the $200 price point I'll probably pick it up.

While I would prefer a 2.0 profile machine, I could probably live with a 1.1 spec player so long as it was a reliable machine with an enforcible warranty from a known manufacturer.

Just not some machine from an unknown company such as "Wiitakumonianrun".



The really good news is that if lower cost "off-brands" do enter the market it should help to drive down the price of players from the major companies as well.
post #46 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

To bad you won't get lossless audio with upconverting SD DVD's.
Guess you'll have to settle for good ol' 5.1 Dolby at best.

Upconverting get's you 35-40% of the HDM product at best.

Kick in the Reon processor and add another 20% to your 40% which is a good 60% very close to 720p.

I really bought it as a backup for my original XA2 and HDM plus I prefer new over second hand since I keep my equipment in mint condition.

...Angelo
post #47 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo913 View Post

Kick in the Reon processor and add another 20% to your 40% which is a good 60% very close to 720p.

I really bought it as a backup for my original XA2 and HDM plus I prefer new over second hand since I keep my equipment in mint condition.

...Angelo

I agree the REON does wonders for the PQ but what does it do for SD audio quality upconverting ?
post #48 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by luclin999 View Post

I'm certainly one the most "Bargain minded" consumers when it regards HD media and I have been saying that once there is a Blu-Ray player at the $200 price point I'll probably pick it up.

I my mind there is a big difference between being "bargain minded" and "cheap".

Being "bargain minded" might mean that you pick up a new Denon 3800 Blu-ray player for $1700.00 instead of its MSRP of $1999.99.

In my opinion saying that you will not buy a Blu-ray player at all until they come down to $200.00, regardless of how long it takes, is being "cheap", not "bargain minded". My 2 cents.
post #49 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

I made the outstanding decision to buy the Venturer HD DVD player for <$200. 3 months later and HD DVD is in death-spazm mode. Hell... I may wait for some new 5640PX (ficticious resolution) solid-state 900GB pin-drive in 10 years and screw the whole High Definition movie revolution

Excellent plan. Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying movies in HD with spectacular sound.
post #50 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo913 View Post

Speaking about Reon up-converters I just ordered another XA2.

...Angelo

How much did that cost you? If you mind saying I'll understand, but I'm curious.

Brandon
post #51 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzoz01 View Post

DVD was also a revolutionary product compared to VHS. HDM is more evolutionary. DVD was new and cool, it was a shiny little disc and you could skip around the disc and never had to rewind or adjust the tracking. Blu and HD-DVD are really just a "better" DVD player. The only practical improvements are better PQ and AQ, and it is backwards compatible. I look at it kind of like S-VHS (or D-VHS for that matter). S-VHS was an evolution of VHS, it offered better PQ and AQ but never really took off. It was essentially an improved version of what people already had and outside of the HT enthusiast crowd (people like us) no one really cared.

I hope that it does catch on and HDM becomes the norm. Greater volume equals lower prices and better products available to me. In order for there to be mass adoption there has to be a compelling reason. Convenience and price are the two most obvious, currently HDM does not outperform DVD in either.

I didn't mind spending a lot on DVD. It was new and different and CONVENIENT. I'm having a harder time with HDM, and I'm one of the AV geeks who actually cares about PQ and AQ.

Well said.
post #52 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I my mind there is a big difference between being "bargain minded" and "cheap".

Being "bargain minded" might mean that you pick up a new Denon 3800 Blu-ray player for $1700.00 instead of its MSRP of $1999.99.

In my opinion saying that you will not buy a Blu-ray player at all until they come down to $200.00, regardless of how long it takes, is being "cheap", not "bargain minded". My 2 cents.

In my case it's simply being practical.

I consider my A/V devices/theater to be an enjoyable but relatively minor part of my life and am not willing to commit tens of thousands of dollars towards equipment that I typically only use for 2-4 hours each week at most.

(To give you some idea, I have only put 92 hours on my projector since I bought it last September.)

If I spent 10-20 hours a week in my theater (as some people who post at AVS do) then I could justify spending quite a bit more but as that is not the case it just doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money now for equipment that I will only see a few dozen hours use from before a comparable item is available at half the cost.
post #53 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo913 View Post

Speaking about Reon up-converters I just ordered another XA2.

...Angelo

Seems like it's not a question of whether Blu-ray is ready for you...you're not ready for Blu-ray.

Enjoy your second XA2.

post #54 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

In my opinion saying that you will not buy a Blu-ray player at all until they come down to $200.00, regardless of how long it takes, is being "cheap", not "bargain minded". My 2 cents.

Wow. Just because someones price of entry is lower than yours, they are "cheap"? Very high and mighty thinking right there.

Different people are going to have different value levels. This holds true for all hobbies/entertainment. It'll all depend on where they place their priority and what the acceptable price point is.

It's not that someone is cheap, they just have a different value system.

John
post #55 of 166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

I agree the REON does wonders for the PQ but what does it do for SD audio quality upconverting ?

Nothing the Reon video processor will do by itself, you still stuck with the lossy 5.1 DD or DTS mix on the DVD, but some players like the HD XA2 also have pretty good DACs on board that make that old DD 484k 5.1 mix sound as good as it will ever get.
post #56 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Nice.

Even the cheapest of HD DVD supporters should be able to cough up $200 for a Blu-ray player.

Or maybe not.........

Are you referring to the cheapest HD DVD supporters who own multiple players?
post #57 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo913 View Post

Kick in the Reon processor and add another 20% to your 40% which is a good 60% very close to 720p.

I really bought it as a backup for my original XA2 and HDM plus I prefer new over second hand since I keep my equipment in mint condition.

...Angelo

Last time I checked SD DVD was 480i or 345,600 pixels of information and 720p was almost three times as many or 921,600 pixels of information. I'm not sure if I call that close. I will say something like the Reon does produce better SD DVD results compared to some of the other chipsets out there, but true 720p still is a sizable jump.
post #58 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Nice.
Even the cheapest of HD DVD supporters should be able to cough up $200 for a Blu-ray player.
Or maybe not.........

C'mon Rob, there's nothing cheap about supporting(buying) HDM.

For me, it's always been content driven.
A "$200 player" while nice sounding, in itself doesn't mean much to me.
Give me a decent number of buyable titles at a reasonable price(~$20) and I'm there.
Player price is secondary to features, i.e., internal decoding and no bugs.
If the Panasonic 50 turns out to match the specs, I'll likely buy one and rent until prices come down
or the BOGOs reappear.

Is that unreasonable?
post #59 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Menu sluggishness and time to play advanced discs is a major issue now for most BD players I have seen, with the sole exception of the PS3.

Before BD is mass market those performance issues with BD-J must be solved and prices come down.

Most consumers are not as forgiving as first adopters on interface issues and would freak on the long load times for BD-J content that some current BD players have.

I agree. I think the Panasonic BD30 while not perfect is at least a step in the right direction with those issues.

A bigger concern to me if the abundant of firmware updates that every HDM player has needed over time. I just don't think many consumers are going to keep up on this, let alone want to. Most people aren't going to network their unit anytime soon either, and how many are going to do the ISO file burning with the CD drive? The other option is having it mailed out to them, but not sure how feasible that will be.
post #60 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

A bigger concern to me if the abundant of firmware updates that every HDM player has needed over time. I just don't think many consumers are going to keep up on this, let alone want to. Most people aren't going to network their unit anytime soon either, and how many are going to do the ISO file burning with the CD drive? The other option is having it mailed out to them, but not sure how feasible that will be.

That is a big issue, I have to wonder if there would be a nice way to put all the latest drivers on each movie so when you pop in your latest movie you get a new firmware version alongside it. I can't imagine having 20 firmwares could take up a considerable amount of a 25-50GB disc, I could be wrong though as I have never downloaded one (not owning a BD player and all).
It would be much like how all xbox360 games have the latest version of the 360's system on it, except this would just include more players. I suppose as the market grew this would become a problem though to have 100+ firmwares.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Players
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › $200 Blu-ray players this year expected says Sigma Designs VP of Strategic Marketing