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$200 Blu-ray players this year expected says Sigma Designs VP of Strategic Marketing - Page 3

post #61 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

How much did that cost you? If you mind saying I'll understand, but I'm curious.

Brandon

XA2 cost me US$449.99+shipping.

...Angelo
post #62 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by J4yDubs View Post

Wow. Just because someones price of entry is lower than yours, they are "cheap"? Very high and mighty thinking right there.

Different people are going to have different value levels. This holds true for all hobbies/entertainment. It'll all depend on where they place their priority and what the acceptable price point is.

It's not that someone is cheap, they just have a different value system.

John

+100
post #63 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by J4yDubs View Post

Wow. Just because someones price of entry is lower than yours, they are "cheap"? Very high and mighty thinking right there.

Different people are going to have different value levels. This holds true for all hobbies/entertainment. It'll all depend on where they place their priority and what the acceptable price point is.

It's not that someone is cheap, they just have a different value system.

John

Absolutely! Everyone has different finances and $200 to Joe is different than $200 for Bob. I'm a HUGE HDM fan. I was in the second wave of HD DVD adopters. It's not a matter of if I will go blu but when. If someone wants to have the opinion that I'm cheap because I won't spend $400 (or $300) so be it. I'll wait and will eventually be purple when it meets my budget.
post #64 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by luclin999 View Post

In my case it's simply being practical.

I consider my A/V devices/theater to be an enjoyable but relatively minor part of my life and am not willing to commit tens of thousands of dollars towards equipment that I typically only use for 2-4 hours each week at most.

(To give you some idea, I have only put 92 hours on my projector since I bought it last September.)

If I spent 10-20 hours a week in my theater (as some people who post at AVS do) then I could justify spending quite a bit more but as that is not the case it just doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money now for equipment that I will only see a few dozen hours use from before a comparable item is available at half the cost.

Very interesting post. You talk about being "practical" as one of the reasons that you will wait until Blu-ray players are $200 before buying one. Yet, you tell us that you have a full front projector setup, but you only use it 2-4 hours per week "at most".

Is that "practical"?

I would say it is not practical to have a nice setup like that if you aren't going to get much use out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J4yDubs View Post

Wow. Just because someones price of entry is lower than yours, they are "cheap"? Very high and mighty thinking right there.

Different people are going to have different value levels. This holds true for all hobbies/entertainment. It'll all depend on where they place their priority and what the acceptable price point is.

It's not that someone is cheap, they just have a different value system.

John

Yes sir, in my opinion someone who says that they are a HT enthusiast who care greatly about PQ and AQ but will not buy a Blu-ray player until they are down to $200 regardless of how long it takes is cheap!

You can call it having a "different value system", but that is just trying to justify the cheapness. I am not talking about people who can't afford more than that....although I don't think that too many of those people exist in these threads, since I have to assume that they already have a good quality HD display that will take advantage of what a Blu-ray player can offer over DVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

C'mon Rob, there's nothing cheap about supporting(buying) HDM.


For me, it's always been content driven.
A "$200 player" while nice sounding, in itself doesn't mean much to me.
Give me a decent number of buyable titles at a reasonable price(~$20) and I'm there.
Player price is secondary to features, i.e., internal decoding and no bugs.
If the Panasonic 50 turns out to match the specs, I'll likely buy one and rent until prices come down
or the BOGOs reappear.

Is that unreasonable?

Unreasonable? Hardly. I agree with pretty much everything you have said!
post #65 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Yes sir, in my opinion someone who says that they are a HT enthusiast who care greatly about PQ and AQ but will not buy a Blu-ray player until they are down to $200 regardless of how long it takes is cheap!

You can call it having a "different value system", but that is just trying to justify the cheapness. I am not talking about people who can't afford more than that....although I don't think that too many of those people exist in these threads, since I have to assume that they already have a good quality HD display that will take advantage of what a Blu-ray player can offer over DVD.

I'm curious if you could enlighten us as to what the economic price is that defines one as being a HDM enthusiast who is being frugal vs cheap? If you can use a blanket statement where $200 makes everyone who waits for that price "cheap" then you obviously are able to definitively have a magic price that separates cheap from fiscally responsible for each individuals situation.

Thanks.
post #66 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

i'll be on the sidelines until i can get a 2.0 br for $200.

I am going to hold out for a 3.0 player for $98, the price I paid for the equivalent in a HD-DVD player last November. It may not happen, however, if all the experts who say HDM discs are doomed to extinction in the age of downloads.
post #67 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by wish View Post

I'm curious if you could enlighten us as to what the economic price is that defines one as being a HDM enthusiast who is being frugal vs cheap? If you can use a blanket statement where $200 makes everyone who waits for that price "cheap" then you obviously are able to definitively have a magic price that separates cheap from fiscally responsible for each individuals situation.

Thanks.

I already discussed the difference between being frugal vs. cheap (except the previous post used the words "bargain minded").

When you can already get Blu-ray players for $379.00 or less, I would say that people who will never buy a Blu-ray player unless/until they are $200 (to save $179 or less) are cheap given that they are apparently willing to wait a year or more for this to happen.

And again, I am not referring to people who simply can't afford "luxury" items right now because of their current financial situation.
post #68 of 166
If you currently have a HTPC with enough horsepower to play the BR and HD files, then pick up a BR drive for the PC. Liteon has one now that's under 150, and comes with a basic software package for playback.

I had considered picking up a $400 standalone, but figured if I have the HTPC, why not just add the new drive.
post #69 of 166
I don't have the obsession like lots of folks here do, and I only use the Home Theater 2-4 hours per week, but to me personally that only makes it that much more important to have the best I can afford! If I'm only going to get to see one movie a week, I want it to be in it's full Hi-Def glory even if it means spending a lot on a player that doesn't get used much. I have other hobbies and obligations, but it's still worth a few hundred to *me* to sit 12' from a 106" picture that looks GREAT. Hell, it's worth whatever it costs if it convinces my wife that I don't have to go to a movie theater once/week... Audio is not quite as important to me personally (DD over optical is just fine for me), as the HT is in a small room with in-wall speakers (due to room use constraints) and limited to 5.1 due to size. But picture quality, that's where it's at!

The beauty of the $200 player is that it would make it easier to justify putting a second BD player in the family room too, for more casual viewing of movies we will eventually own on BD.
post #70 of 166
Wow, every thread seems to denigrate into HD-DVD owners providing their long lists of non-negotiable requirements before they buy Blu-Ray. I'm perplexed that people who frequent this site and have the resources to buy large 1080p HDTVs and 5.1 or 7.1 systems say they will balk until there's a Blu-Ray player with every feature imaginable for $199. I'm simply amazed that people want to go back to watching upscaled DVDs after seeing 1080p because of a few dollars.
post #71 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I already discussed the difference between being frugal vs. cheap (except the previous post used the words "bargain minded").

When you can already get Blu-ray players for $379.00 or less, I would say that people who will never buy a Blu-ray player unless/until they are $200 (to save $179 or less) are cheap given that they are apparently willing to wait a year or more for this to happen.

And again, I am not referring to people who simply can't afford "luxury" items right now because of their current financial situation.

That's all great. What's the magic price point that defines cheap? You've already established it's > $379. $380? $500? or does the real HDM enthusiast set that price as infinity?
post #72 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

Wow, every thread seems to denigrate into HD-DVD owners providing their long lists of non-negotiable requirements before they buy Blu-Ray. I'm perplexed that people who frequent this site and have the resources to buy large 1080p HDTVs and 5.1 or 7.1 systems say they will balk until there's a Blu-Ray player with every feature imaginable for $199. I'm simply amazed that people want to go back to watching upscaled DVDs after seeing 1080p because of a few dollars.

You have said exactly what I have thought many times while reading some of these threads.
post #73 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

Wow, every thread seems to denigrate into HD-DVD owners providing their long lists of non-negotiable requirements before they buy Blu-Ray.

Long lists? Every thread? Let's not get dramatic. Maybe a few are unreasonable but the majority only has a $200 price point (a few others are holding out for 2.0 also).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

I'm perplexed that people who frequent this site and have the resources to buy large 1080p HDTVs and 5.1 or 7.1 systems say they will balk until there's a Blu-Ray player with every feature imaginable for $199.

$199 with every feature imaginable? Stop. Seriously, just stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

I'm simply amazed that people want to go back to watching upscaled DVDs after seeing 1080p because of a few dollars.

Upscaped DVDs, HD TV & their HD DVD collection.
post #74 of 166
I'm cheap like many of you, and stubborn about getting the most features and bang for my buck. I bought a A2 when they were 100 bucks, even though I paid 134 to find one in stock and had it shipped quicker so I could play sooner.
Then it became obvious Sony has deeper pockets and buried HD DVD when every one was paid to jump ship or just did because they saw everyone else running. I went to Circuit City after seeing posts on deal sites about demo and open box bd players going cheap at several retailers. I ended up with a Panasonic DMP-BD10a for 169, full warranty, manual, remote, no box. I know some say it has issues and LFE problems but I think it's built like a tank and so far it does a nice job playing dvd's and has a ton of extras for a first gen player.
So now I'm purple and really don't have to care what's out on what. They seem to keep supporting it and as long as the main movies work I'll be happy for the small amount I have into both machines so far.
Later when a full spec machine has a good price I'll upgrade again and somebody in the family gets a HD player of some sort to play with. It's too bad both side didn't just combine formats into one really great one rather then try to grab as much money as they could from us, like they started to do when both were starting out.
post #75 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Yes sir, in my opinion someone who says that they are a HT enthusiast who care greatly about PQ and AQ but will not buy a Blu-ray player until they are down to $200 regardless of how long it takes is cheap!

Where are they saying they are a HT enthusiast? Even if they did, are there not levels of "enthusiasm"? Your level seems to be $379 for a 1.0/1.1 player. Other peoples level is $200 for a 2.0 player. Some people just want HD on their "modest" setup, but don't think it's worth the money for the current (feature incomplete) players. Different value levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

You can call it having a "different value system", but that is just trying to justify the cheapness.

The other side of that coins is you trying to justify the high expense right now. Some might say your paying too much for what you get. Different value levels.

John
post #76 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

Wow, every thread seems to denigrate into HD-DVD owners providing their long lists of non-negotiable requirements before they buy Blu-Ray. I'm perplexed that people who frequent this site and have the resources to buy large 1080p HDTVs and 5.1 or 7.1 systems say they will balk until there's a Blu-Ray player with every feature imaginable for $199.

::looks up at the thread topic::

Yup, you're right, it's silly to talk about $200 players in a thread titled "$200 Blu-ray players this year expected says Sigma Designs VP of Strategic Marketing". My bad.

John
post #77 of 166
The issue is not staying on topic. What perplexes me is the people with $3000+ systems and/or hundreds of DVDs/HD-DVDs claiming that a $100-200 difference in Blu-Ray player prices are a make or break issue with them. It's sort of like someone buying a $125,000 Porsche and griping about premium gas prices.
post #78 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

The issue is not staying on topic. What perplexes me is the people with $3000+ systems and/or hundreds of DVDs/HD-DVDs claiming that a $100-200 difference in Blu-Ray player prices are a make or break issue with them. It's sort of like someone buying a $125,000 Porsche and griping about premium gas prices.

You have to understand it's simply a hate of Blu-ray (which usually contains some anti-Sony sentiment) and/or case of (HD DVD) fanboyism that's preventing many of the people you're referring to from buying a BD unit. Price is only an excuse. If it wasn't price, then it would be profiles (even though most would never use the extra features profile 1.1 or 2.0 would allow). If it wasn't that, it would supposedly be BD+, etc.
post #79 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

It's sort of like someone buying a $125,000 Porsche and griping about premium gas prices.

I think a better example would be calling someone cheap because they bought a $60,000 Corvette instead of the $125,000 Porsche. Personally, I'd go with the Porsche, but I'm not going to look down on the vette people. When it comes to HDM, it'd go with the $200 player over the $400+ one.

John
post #80 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

You have to understand it's simply a hate of Blu-ray (which usually contains some anti-Sony sentiment) and/or case of (HD DVD) fanboyism that's preventing many of the people you're referring to from buying a BD unit. Price is only an excuse. If it wasn't price, then it would be profiles (even though most would never use the extra features profile 1.1 or 2.0 would allow). If it wasn't that, it would supposedly be BD+, etc.

Of course. I suspect that most of these people, however, will own Blu-Ray players by the end of the year, regardless of where prices are during 2008. Once you see and hear HD, it is hard to go back. That and the HD-DVD wounds will heal over time.
post #81 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

Wow, every thread seems to denigrate into HD-DVD owners providing their long lists of non-negotiable requirements before they buy Blu-Ray. I'm perplexed that people who frequent this site and have the resources to buy large 1080p HDTVs and 5.1 or 7.1 systems say they will balk until there's a Blu-Ray player with every feature imaginable for $199. I'm simply amazed that people want to go back to watching upscaled DVDs after seeing 1080p because of a few dollars.

+1000

Anyone that had enough money to buy 50+ HD DVD titles has enough money for Blu-ray right now. Anything else is just an excuse.
post #82 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

You have to understand it's simply a hate of Blu-ray (which usually contains some anti-Sony sentiment) and/or case of (HD DVD) fanboyism that's preventing many of the people you're referring to from buying a BD unit. Price is only an excuse. If it wasn't price, then it would be profiles (even though most would never use the extra features profile 1.1 or 2.0 would allow). If it wasn't that, it would supposedly be BD+, etc.

While your statement is certainly true for some lame people who have this infatuation with a particular brand I'm pretty sure they are a minority. Most on this forum, me included, are interested in AV. Blu-ray is the only sheriff in town so if you want new titles in HD, you have to eventually go blu.

How about trying to go with an open mind. Comments like "we" "they" and "fanboyism" are buzz words that aren't helping the situation and will continue to draw posts from those who aren't as interested in AV as playing tug of war.
post #83 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Very interesting post. You talk about being "practical" as one of the reasons that you will wait until Blu-ray players are $200 before buying one. Yet, you tell us that you have a full front projector setup, but you only use it 2-4 hours per week "at most".

Is that "practical"?

I would say it is not practical to have a nice setup like that if you aren't going to get much use out of it.

For me it is very practical.

My wife and I typically like to watch only one or two movies a week (frankly there haven't been that many new releases this past year we've found appealing) however, when we do want to watch movies at home we want to have the "big screen" experience.

If we wanted to watch movies more often then that, I'd allocate more money towards this "hobby" but as it stands we are very satisfied with our miniature theater and the quality of our movie-watching experience.

Frankly, I have the money to have built an entire addition onto the house and could have invested $70k - $120k to have created a "true" 12 seat home theater, but since my Houston home is currently appraised at $200k, that would have been an idiotic expenditure and exercise in "over-improving" my home.

Especially when you take into account the limited amount of time my wife and I would spend enjoying it.

Or to put it another way...

Some people enjoy lounging in a small 10'x20' swimming pool on a hot day. For a person like that, building an Olympic-sized pool would be a waste of money and resources.

Of course, I suppose that to an Olympic swimming coach, anyone who builds anything less than an Olympic pool might be considered "cheap" as well.



(And I didn't "tell" you that I have a front projector setup, I do in fact have one. Click the link in my signature to see the build process and equipment list if you are skeptical.)

Quote:


When you can already get Blu-ray players for $379.00 or less, I would say that people who will never buy a Blu-ray player unless/until they are $200 (to save $179 or less) are cheap given that they are apparently willing to wait a year or more for this to happen.

The only players that I have seen at that price point have been Samsung models. And frankly with all the complaints I have seen on this board over "slow load times", "lock-ups", and simply not being able to play certain Blu-Ray disks, I am very leery about purchasing one of their machines.

The $399 PS3 would be an option but I would prefer a player with analog audio outputs. However, right now as the only internet-connectible, potentially 2.0 compliant player available, I am still giving it a serious look.
post #84 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mntneer View Post

If you currently have a HTPC with enough horsepower to play the BR and HD files, then pick up a BR drive for the PC. Liteon has one now that's under 150, and comes with a basic software package for playback.

I had considered that, but would miss out on the analog audio outputs that I desire. (Which is the same problem I have regarding buying a PS3 as well).
post #85 of 166
Rob,

I think I am going to sell my JVC-RS1 and wait for "color" projectors to be perfected... Then I can watch Lawrence of Arabia when it comes out on blu Ray for under $10.00.....

Regards,
Dom
post #86 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

You have to understand it's simply a hate of Blu-ray (which usually contains some anti-Sony sentiment) and/or case of (HD DVD) fanboyism that's preventing many of the people you're referring to from buying a BD unit. Price is only an excuse. If it wasn't price, then it would be profiles (even though most would never use the extra features profile 1.1 or 2.0 would allow). If it wasn't that, it would supposedly be BD+, etc.

Wrong.

I have always been happy to accept either format into my home. The deciding factor from the very beginning for me was price I was willing to pay.

HD-DVD hit that price first, so that is what I purchased. If Blu-Ray had dropped below $200 first I would have picked up that format instead.

And while I am a bit more flexible on price now that there is only going to be a single HD media format going forward, I am still having trouble convincing myself to pull the "$400 trigger" on what I see available reliability and feature-wise right now at that price-point.

If any of the machines currently priced at $400 were to drop to $300, I would seriously consider getting one.

At $200, there would be no question.

Which is why I am very happy to hear the news that there are likely to be $200 "off-brand" players available by the end of the year. Simply because it also means that the price of an entry level "name-brand" machine will likely come down to the $300 range as well.
post #87 of 166
YellowCanary73,

That "different value system" is called a WIFE!!! Most all of my friends are waiting for something to be perfected or become a little cheaper etc., and quite by accident, they are all married..... Amazingly, there is always money for new couches, rugs, kitchen update etc. Wonder why?

Regards,
Dom
post #88 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

I am going to hold out for a 3.0 player for $98, the price I paid for the equivalent in a HD-DVD player last November. It may not happen, however, if all the experts who say HDM discs are doomed to extinction in the age of downloads.

I doubt the BD CE manufacturers will have any incentive to sell you a high quality player at a major loss. Sorry.

Brandon
post #89 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by wish View Post

Long lists? Every thread? Let's not get dramatic.

...

$199 with every feature imaginable? Stop. Seriously, just stop.

I guess you haven't been reading the same threads I have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

The issue is not staying on topic. What perplexes me is the people with $3000+ systems and/or hundreds of DVDs/HD-DVDs claiming that a $100-200 difference in Blu-Ray player prices are a make or break issue with them. It's sort of like someone buying a $125,000 Porsche and griping about premium gas prices.

I still have yet to see a car/gas analogy that fits the format war rhetoric well. And in this case the software would be the gas and you need gas to drive a car.

A better car analogy would be a person with a $5M home complaining about the price of a $125,000 Porsche. Or a person with a $125,000.00 Porsche complaining about the engine for it being too expensive. Although those are still flawed.

Brandon
post #90 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by wish View Post

How about trying to go with an open mind. Comments like "we" "they" and "fanboyism" are buzz words that aren't helping the situation and will continue to draw posts from those who aren't as interested in AV as playing tug of war.

Agreed, although I hope most would assume when I say "them" I'm referring to true fanboys and not reasonable supporters of one format over the other. I even tried to refrain from using "we" when referring to BD supporters because I never wanted to feel like it was the actual name behind the format I was supporting, but the best chance for HDM to become successful.

But I digress...

Brandon
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