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What is the next step in upgrading my system??

post #1 of 18
2/29/08 at 6:22am
Thread Starter 
I have a Yammy RXV 2500 130x7 reciever, Oppo dvd player, Para sub and B&W speakers all around, the S 600 series. I mostly watch and listen to concert dvd's and really like a clean loud sound. My HT is in a big finished basement so I am wondering what I need to do to jump up the power, sound and general loudness. For example, I find myself listening at +4dB on my receiver....it sounds good but I know the system is about at it's limit.

I have a Panny projector and 126" screen and will eventually make the jump to Blu Ray but not until more concert dvd's are available. I'd also like to make the jump into HDMI as well.

I don't want to break the bank but what is the next step for me, going to amp and preamp setup?

Thanks for the help.

--JK
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post #2 of 18
2/29/08 at 8:05am
It sounds like you need "more power". Since you like the concert DVDs loud, I would suggest a new multi-channel amp. Keep the Yamy as your pre-pro. I added a Rotel 5 channel amp to my system many years back and don't regret the addition. There is nothing like wattage and headroom. You may want to look at pro amps as well. I've read where others have used them quite well and they seem to be cheaper.
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post #3 of 18
2/29/08 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

I have a Yammy RXV 2500 130x7 reciever, Oppo dvd player, Para sub and B&W speakers all around, the S 600 series. I mostly watch and listen to concert dvd's and really like a clean loud sound. My HT is in a big finished basement so I am wondering what I need to do to jump up the power, sound and general loudness. For example, I find myself listening at +4dB on my receiver....it sounds good but I know the system is about at it's limit.

I have a Panny projector and 126" screen and will eventually make the jump to Blu Ray but not until more concert dvd's are available. I'd also like to make the jump into HDMI as well.

I don't want to break the bank but what is the next step for me, going to amp and preamp setup?

Thanks for the help.

--JK

You mentioned that you are +4 Db on your receiver? Is your system calibrated to 0 Db for reference level? If not then you need to calibrate your system as soon as you get home! If it is calibrated to 0 Db then what the heck are you doing listening to it at +4 Db over reference? You WILL go deaf doing that, or you will blow a few speakers, or both!

Pure and simple! Sell your 2500 on ebay. Place a pre-order for the Yamaha RX-V663 for $400 at jr.com. Then go out and buy a big Honk'n 5 Channel Rotel AMP or a really nice Emotiva amp.

Finally, go pick up the Chris Botti Blu-ray, Eric Clapton(Cream) HD-DVD, Eagles HD-DVD, and the Nine Inch Nails HD-DVD or Blu-ray.

If your system is properly calibrated you will never listen to another CD again! The sound on those Discs will make you want to scrap your antiquated 2 Channel CDs or the very Lossy SD DVDs forever! I especially liked the Chris Botti one and I don't even really like his music! I am more of a N.I.N fan myself. I still listen to all of the discs at least once a week though. However, I am closer to -8 Db from reference with my Rotel amp. That is around 100 Db at my sitting position.

For about $500 and the money you get for your 2500 you can literally transform your system!
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post #4 of 18
2/29/08 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post


Pure and simple! Sell your 2500 on ebay. Place a pre-order for the Yamaha RX-V663 for $400 at jr.com. Then go out and buy a big Honk'n 5 Channel Rotel AMP or a really nice Emotiva amp.

For about $500 and the money you get for your 2500 you can literally transform your system!

Why the RX-V663? 1080 ability and HDMI? I am very interested in doing this upgrade if it's only a few hundred. What I was afraid of is no options under $3,000 or so. Will my 600 series B&W's be OK with the upgrade in power? Also, how much power would I go for? My current yammy is 130x7.

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it!

--JK
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post #5 of 18
2/29/08 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

Why the RX-V663? 1080 ability and HDMI? I am very interested in doing this upgrade if it's only a few hundred. What I was afraid of is no options under $3,000 or so. Will my 600 series B&W's be OK with the upgrade in power? Also, how much power would I go for? My current yammy is 130x7.

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it!

--JK

There is a new ultra slim Class D Rotel Amp that puts out 100 Watts X 5 Channels(RB-1085 I think)?. That doesn't sound like much but these are true Watts so they go along way. I would recommend that at $1100 based on some reports of current owners. The Yamaha RX-V663 is also a great buy for the $.
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post #6 of 18
2/29/08 at 5:23pm
Thread Starter 
so the Rotel amp and 100x5 will have more power than the 130x7 Yanny I currently have? Any idea where I would start the bidding/what my 2500 is worth? It's in flawless condition, no scratches, minimal use.

-John
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post #7 of 18
2/29/08 at 5:26pm
For Pete's sake there is nothing wrong with your receiver or your system. Put the money away for retirement.
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post #8 of 18
2/29/08 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

so the Rotel amp and 100x5 will have more power than the 130x7 Yanny I currently have? Any idea where I would start the bidding/what my 2500 is worth? It's in flawless condition, no scratches, minimal use.

-John

If you *double* your amplifier power to 260 wpc, you gain 3 dB. To get another 3 dB, you need 520 wpc. Can your speakers even handle this kind of power? Doubtful.

If you're not doing so already, you can gain significant amplifier headroom by setting your mains to "Small" and using a 60 or 80 Hz crossover. This will re-route the deep bass to the subwoofer, (which is undoubtedly the best speaker you have to reproduce it), and shuttle it away from the main amps and speakers. Relieving the main amps of the heavy duty job of amplifying all that bass will free up amplifier headroom and will allow the mains to play louder with less distortion. You're whole system will sound better.

Craig
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post #9 of 18
2/29/08 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

so the Rotel amp and 100x5 will have more power than the 130x7 Yanny I currently have? Any idea where I would start the bidding/what my 2500 is worth? It's in flawless condition, no scratches, minimal use.

-John

Yes the Rotel measurements are taken across the full spectrum and are a true measurement while pushing an 8 ohm load. The Yamaha measurements are probably taken in an optimal frequency range, may be taken with a 4 or 6 ohm load instead of the 8 you are probably using and may even be taken using only one or two channels. I can assure you you are NOT getting 130 watts with all channels driven; it costs thousands to get that kind of power across 7 channels.
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post #10 of 18
2/29/08 at 6:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


If you're not doing so already, you can gain significant amplifier headroom by setting your mains to "Small" and using a 60 or 80 Hz crossover. This will re-route the deep bass to the subwoofer, (which is undoubtedly the best speaker you have to reproduce it), and shuttle it away from the main amps and speakers. Relieving the main amps of the heavy duty job of amplifying all that bass will free up amplifier headroom and will allow the mains to play louder with less distortion. You're whole system will sound better.

Craig


That's interesting info as the guy from the store which I bought everything from specifically said to set everything, including the center and surrounds to "large" to let them "play through", whatever he meant by that comment.

John
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post #11 of 18
2/29/08 at 6:16pm
It costs $0 to try it.

Craig

Edit: I have no idea what "play through" means, but if your speakers don't have full extension to 20 Hz, you're *losing* bass by setting them to "large". Any bass below their LF cutoff is lost. Set them to "small" with an appropriate crossover and the previously "lost" bass is now reproduced -- by the subwoofer.
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post #12 of 18
2/29/08 at 6:29pm
Thread Starter 
I will try it tomorrow for sure. I'm just looking to make planned upgrades to my system without breaking the bank or doing it all at once. Ultimately I would like to have more power, 1080 projector, blu ray and HDMI technology. I realize the 600 series B&W are not elite speakers but they have worked well for me so far. I assume you don't think "upgrading" to the 5 channel amp is worth it with the components I currently have?

John
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post #13 of 18
2/29/08 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

I will try it tomorrow for sure. I'm just looking to make planned upgrades to my system without breaking the bank or doing it all at once. Ultimately I would like to have more power, 1080 projector, blu ray and HDMI technology. I realize the 600 series B&W are not elite speakers but they have worked well for me so far. I assume you don't think "upgrading" to the 5 channel amp is worth it with the components I currently have?

John

How much power can the B&W 600 series speakers handle? The 683, (for example), has a power amp recommendation of 25 to 200 wpc. Going from 130 wpc to 200 wpc will net you about 2 dB of continuous output, (but probably quite a bit more headroom for peaks than that). If you want an upgrade in power, you can get the Emotiva MPS-2, (200 wpc x 7) for $1,699. If you only need 5 channels, you can get the XPA-5, (200 wpc x 5) for $861.
http://emotiva.com/store/prodpage.cf...TOKEN=26263801

Craig
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post #14 of 18
2/29/08 at 7:17pm
Thread Starter 
Well I just checked out my speakers and the specs. They are the DM 602 S3 speakers:
Technical Specifications : DM602 S3

Description 2-way vented-box system
Dimensions Height: 490mm (19.3in)
Width: 236mm (9.3in)
Depth: 293mm (11.5in)
Net Weight 10.5kg / 23.1lb
Freq. Response 49Hz - 22kHz ± 3dB on reference axis
Freq. Range -6dB at 40Hz and 42kHz
Sensitivity 90dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
Normal Impedance 8 ohms (minimum 3.0 ohms)
Power Handling 25W - 120W into 8 ohms on unclipped programme
Drive Units Unit 1: 1x 25mm(1in) metal dome high-frequency
Unit 2: 1x 180mm (7in) woven Kevlar® cone bass/midrange
Unit 3:
Finish Cabinet: Black Ash or Sorrento (light oak) vinyl
Grille: Black Cloth
Dispersion Description: Within 2dB of response on reference axis
Horizontal: over 40° arc
Vertical: over 10° arc
Harmonic Distortion 2nd & 3rd harmonics<1% 60Hz - 20kHz (90dB spl, 1m)
Crossover Frequency 4kHz
Max. Recommended Cable Impedance 0.1 ohms

I actually found several reviews online raving about the sound of these speakers with a 120w amp.

John
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post #15 of 18
2/29/08 at 8:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

For Pete's sake there is nothing wrong with your receiver or your system. Put the money away for retirement.


This is by the far the best advice you could possibly ask for in this thread.
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post #16 of 18
2/29/08 at 10:23pm
Thread Starter 
I know the system is fine I am simply looking for ways to upgrade the audio. Is that such an unheard of thing on here, wanting to make your system better?

--JK
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post #17 of 18
3/1/08 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

You mentioned that you are +4 Db on your receiver? Is your system calibrated to 0 Db for reference level? If not then you need to calibrate your system as soon as you get home! If it is calibrated to 0 Db then what the heck are you doing listening to it at +4 Db over reference? You WILL go deaf doing that, or you will blow a few speakers, or both!

Pure and simple! Sell your 2500 on ebay. Place a pre-order for the Yamaha RX-V663 for $400 at jr.com. Then go out and buy a big Honk'n 5 Channel Rotel AMP or a really nice Emotiva amp.

Finally, go pick up the Chris Botti Blu-ray, Eric Clapton(Cream) HD-DVD, Eagles HD-DVD, and the Nine Inch Nails HD-DVD or Blu-ray.

If your system is properly calibrated you will never listen to another CD again! The sound on those Discs will make you want to scrap your antiquated 2 Channel CDs or the very Lossy SD DVDs forever! I especially liked the Chris Botti one and I don't even really like his music! I am more of a N.I.N fan myself. I still listen to all of the discs at least once a week though. However, I am closer to -8 Db from reference with my Rotel amp. That is around 100 Db at my sitting position.

For about $500 and the money you get for your 2500 you can literally transform your system!


This is exaclty what I am doing and I am in the exact same situation more or less as the OP. I have a 2500 also which I bought a few years ago. Been waiting for the right time to step up to the latest and greatest and future proof receivers, and with the new Yamaha's coming out I decided now was the time!!! Pre ordered the 663 a week ago or so and will hopefully get that within a couple of weeks. Looking to further enhance my sound I just recently ordered the brand new Emotiva XP-5 to channel up 5 of my 7.1 channel set up. I'll probably just get some comparable 2-3 channel amp off of ebay to fill up the missing channels. My speakers are kind of comparable to yours, they are the higher end Def Tech's. Now the next obvious thing would be to sell my old 2500 off as well I still have a bunch of other crap I should sell off such as some Axiom speakers amongst other things. I might start ebaying off some of my SVS Subs. Anyways I hope to have this all up and running as soon as all of it comes in. If you'd like I can let you know how it all sounds.
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post #18 of 18
3/1/08 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

I know the system is fine I am simply looking for ways to upgrade the audio. Is that such an unheard of thing on here, wanting to make your system better?

--JK

Yes it is, you should be ashamed of yourself for wanting to do such a thing!
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