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Official OPPO DV-983H w/ ABT VRS FAQ/Dump - Page 36

post #1051 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Is there a way to set 1:1 pixel mapping? Turn off any video enhancement features. You're using HDMI and 1080p, right? And calibrate for each DVD player separately.

Finally: what level of difference are you expecting? The SD-DVD source places limits on what can be done.

-Bill

just got back and read your comments. first question.what do u mean by 1:1 pixel mapping
post #1052 of 5594
Neuromancer,

I have to say that I disagree with your reasoning behind not implementing a better speaker distance setting.

Any Onkyo user familiar with their multichannel inputs knows that you only have 3 DSP options:

Multichannel - uses the receivers delay, crossover, trim and Audyssey
Direct - ignores all the above settings
Pure AUdio - ignores all the above settings, plus turns off the video processing circuits

If I want the highest quality sound from my hardware combination, it would involved analog output from the 983 and Pure Audio selected on my Onkyo 705. The lack of adequate speaker distance control and being forced into a setup where the front main speakers must be the farthest away makes this impossible for me to use.

With the price of this player set at $399, I find that extremely upsetting. It seems that Oppo has given no thought to that set of circumstances. In addition, what about users who due to room constraints, cannot have their main speakers farther away than the rest?

For the price we paid to have the 'deluxe' version of universal DVD players, the lack of independent speaker distance controls is an ugly declaration of corner-cutting. Yes that is just my opinion, and yes my tone is decidedly different from my last post on the matter. The more I think about what I paid for this player and the more I think about how top-notch quality is basically being kept out of my reach for no good reason on Oppos part just pisses me off.

Please note that I'm not trying to attack you personally; you happen to be in a position to pass along requests/feedback directly to people who might fix the issue, so I am expressing myself fully so that my dissatisfaction on this issue is completely demonstrated.
post #1053 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

To note I am using the DV-983H through an Integra 9.8 to two projectors (DVI and HDMI) and one old Sony CRT (HDMI) and have never experienced any audio or video dropouts with the final hardware and shipping firmware.

Neuromancer, what FW are you running on your 9.8?
post #1054 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmbond View Post

So, it's fair to say that you feel a dropout problem does exist in 983s as currently shipped? I'm not trying to corner you I'm really just trying to figure out whether to bother exchanging my unit, or to simply return it for a refund and re-purchase it when/if a fix is found. If there is a "known" dropout issue at this time which has been acknowledged by Oppo, then exchanging my unit seems pointless. Has Oppo acknowledged the problem exists, or have they taken Neuromancer's apparent position that it does not?

You could ask them yourself and let us know. I was told they were investigating. I am experiencing intermittent dropouts, say once per hour, although they occur in clusters sometimes. I can live with it for a while.

If I were you I would ask Oppo what they recommend given your situation:

(1) Refund.

(2) Exchange.

(3) Hang on to the current unit waiting for a firmware fix. If you are unhappy with current performance then I would do this only if Oppo would still offer a refund if it is not corrected. I don't know if they will do that.

-Bill
post #1055 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by homer612 View Post

just got back and read your comments. first question.what do u mean by 1:1 pixel mapping

It means the display uses the 1920x1080 signal from the player without any additional zooming or cropping of the image. In the past there have been displays that would not allow you to defeat their built-in overscan, which was a very bad thing.

Before you ask me how to do this on your display: I don't know. Check the thread for your display in one of the other forums.

-Bill
post #1056 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

You could ask them yourself and let us know. I was told they were investigating. I am experiencing intermittent dropouts, say once per hour, although they occur in clusters sometimes. I can live with it for a while.

-Bill

Thank you for your candor regarding your experience with the dropouts. As you know, I have contacted Oppo, and I will let you know how they respond.
post #1057 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmbond View Post

Thank you for your candor regarding your experience with the dropouts. As you know, I have contacted Oppo, and I will let you know how they respond.

Let us all know
post #1058 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

It means the display uses the 1920x1080 signal from the player without any additional zooming or cropping of the image. In the past there have been displays that would not allow you to defeat their built-in overscan, which was a very bad thing.

Before you ask me how to do this on your display: I don't know. Check the thread for your display in one of the other forums.

-Bill

I do have a 1:1 pixel mapping option on my Samsung 50 inch full HD display but I usually use 16:9 instead of 'Just Scan' as they call it. You say overscanning is a very bad thing - can you please explain why? Thanks.

Keith
post #1059 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I do have a 1:1 pixel mapping option on my Samsung 50 inch full HD display but I usually use 16:9 instead of 'Just Scan' as they call it. You say overscanning is a very bad thing - can you please explain why? Thanks.

Keith

(1) We went to all the trouble to make as good a 1920x1080 image as we could, and now you want to scale it by a few percent again? That has to degrade the image.

(2) It clips off part of the picture. Don't you want to see the whole picture?

-Bill
post #1060 of 5594
True...but some channels have that flickering garbage at the top or sides. Having a little bit of overscan is good to prevent having to see that. I agree that some TVs have too much overscan, to the point of chopping off logos and what not, but 0 overscan introduces other problems. Maybe not so much with a DVD, as in this case, but definitely with TV broadcasts.
post #1061 of 5594
Can't the 1:1 pixel mapping just be set for the input the DVD is attached to or does it apply to all inputs?
post #1062 of 5594
Or scan rates?
post #1063 of 5594
What numbers are people typically using for receiver delays to fix lipsync?
post #1064 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhatter View Post

What numbers are people typically using for receiver delays to fix lipsync?

My old reciever doesn't have this option. But the 983 does have a digital audio delay setting. I asked a few days ago if anyone has made use of this feature/option. All in all I am much more impressed / happy wiht the Oppo 983's lipsync (without adjustment) than my previous player.
post #1065 of 5594
My reciever does not have a delay either, and I am currently under the impression that the 983 delay does not apply to the coax output...at least I messed with it and did not notice any change. Am I stupid? I am trying to decide whether to get a Feltston delay box or a new receiver, but I see the that receivers I am looking at have a maximum delay of 100msec. Is 100ms enough for the 983?
post #1066 of 5594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmbond View Post

Neuromancer, what FW are you running on your 9.8?

Don't know. How do you check your firmware revision?
post #1067 of 5594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekari View Post

I have to say that I disagree with your reasoning behind not implementing a better speaker distance setting.

I have not, and am not, disagreeing with you. I am merely stating an opinion that you should be using the receiver for all speaker distancing and trimming. Would it be good if the player had the ability to have more refined controls? Yes, but at the same time how many of the users will be taking advantage of these controls. OPPO has been using the same control schemes for the past 3 years, and any changes will either be very slow or disastrous to how the player sounds and operates.
post #1068 of 5594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhatter View Post

My reciever does not have a delay either, and I am currently under the impression that the 983 delay does not apply to the coax output...at least I messed with it and did not notice any change. Am I stupid?

The Delay only effects PCM signals. RAW bitstreams are not effected.
post #1069 of 5594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmbond View Post

Bill, I'm curious. Neuromancer is suggesting that my unit is defective and should be replaced because I should not be having dropouts w/my setup, yet you are having dropouts and feel that your unit can be fixed with a firmware update. Is there something I'm missing?

Here is the reason why I say a replacement unit: we can't rule out the possibility that this is a hardware error.

Secondly, OPPO will NEVER guarantee that a firmware will resolve your error. For this reason, they will not tell you to hold onto the player and see if they resolve the error in the future.

For OPPO there are only two real solutions: Refund or Replacement. If you like the DV-983H, it does not hurt you (it hurts OPPO financially) to have the unit replaced to ensure that your errors are not related to some kind of hardware defect. As I have noted, I have not had any issues with audio errors with my Integra 9.8 setup, so you can't assume that your errors are related to firmware malfunctions.
post #1070 of 5594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikinokie View Post

Final hardware and shipping firmware? So the problem has been fixed?

Final hardware and final firmware. I had issues with beta firmware, but all the beta testers did.

And no problem was fixed, because there was no problem to begin with in regards to the shipping product for my setup.

For the users who have experienced audio dropouts, for example, OPPO quickly released a firmware to resolve their errors.
post #1071 of 5594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmbond View Post

Your statement "...have never experienced any audio or video dropouts with the final hardware and shipping firmware" could be interpreted to mean that there were such problems during the beta period. Was this an issue then?

It is well known that the beta hardware had many problems associated to it (one of the reasons the unit did not come out until last month). Once I received the final hardware, I had no problems at all with any errors, which included disc reading, unit not powering on, video not showing, audio and video dropouts, and a sleuth of other hardware related problems.
post #1072 of 5594
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmbond View Post

So, it's fair to say that you feel a dropout problem does exist in 983s as currently shipped? I'm not trying to corner you I'm really just trying to figure out whether to bother exchanging my unit, or to simply return it for a refund and re-purchase it when/if a fix is found. If there is a "known" dropout issue at this time which has been acknowledged by Oppo, then exchanging my unit seems pointless.

There are only two "known" dropout issues, and those are related to the VSX-92/94TXH and the Onkyo SR803. These were resolved through software.

All other reported problems have not been isolated. For your problem, you can't say it is a software or hardware compatibility error, as I have the Integra 9.8 and have no issues.

Quote:


Has Oppo acknowledged the problem exists, or have they taken Neuromancer's apparent position that it does not?

I never said that these errors do not exist. What I have been saying all this time is we do not know the cause of these errors. That is, what is the underlying reason for them to occur.

As we have seen with some of the complaints, the errors were resolved either with new HDMI cables or with a firmware updated (see: Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH). To my knowledge no one has received a replacement DVD player for their errors, so we can't rule out the possibility of some units have inherent hardware defects.

Summation: There is too much conjecture over what is causing these compatibility problems. It might be specific hardware, or it might be a software issue. But at this time no one can tell you which it is.
post #1073 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekari View Post

If I want the highest quality sound from my hardware combination, it would involved analog output from the 983 and Pure Audio selected on my Onkyo 705.

This is merely a common presumption, not a general rule.
post #1074 of 5594
I have not seen/heard any dropout. My signal path is 983H - OPPO HM-31 - Onkyo TX-SR604 - Pioneer Kuro PRO-110FD, running at 1080p. My firmware on the 983H is the original 05-0303.

Based on my reading so far, it seems that three members experienced dropout issue: mjmbond, wmcclain (a beta tester?), and hikinokie. Since hikinokie returned his/her unit without trying a replacement, perhaps mjmbond and wmcclain can ask OPPO for a replacement unit to try?
post #1075 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekari View Post

The lack of adequate speaker distance control and being forced into a setup where the front main speakers must be the farthest away makes this impossible for me to use.

With the price of this player set at $399, I find that extremely upsetting. It seems that Oppo has given no thought to that set of circumstances. In addition, what about users who due to room constraints, cannot have their main speakers farther away than the rest?

For the price we paid to have the 'deluxe' version of universal DVD players, the lack of independent speaker distance controls is an ugly declaration of corner-cutting. Yes that is just my opinion, and yes my tone is decidedly different from my last post on the matter. The more I think about what I paid for this player and the more I think about how top-notch quality is basically being kept out of my reach for no good reason on Oppos part just pisses me off.

In my experience, I had a Denon DVD-2910CI which is much more expensive than the $399 OPPO DV-983H, and guess what? The speaker distance setting also required that the surround speakers cannot be further away than the front speakers. I also tried a Panasonic S97 briefly, and remembered that its speaker distance setting also had this limitation. This makes me think there might be some common restriction or reason behind this.

To study a little bit more on this, I found an article talking about speaker placement. http://www.practical-home-theater-gu...placement.html

Quote:



Avoid having the front center speaker closer to your main viewing position than the left and right speakers; this will unbalance the inter-mix between the different sound channels.

Avoid:

Placing surround speakers too far forward of your main seating position, as otherwise you will not get sufficient sound fill at the back.

Similarly, do not place your speakers to far back. This will result in voids in your listening area; you may loss the enveloping effect so important in surround sound.
post #1076 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Don't know. How do you check your firmware revision?

With your 9.8 turned on, press and hold the "display" button on the front of the unit, then press the "Standby/On" button. The firmware version will display for a couple of seconds. Mine is "87 1.04."

Onkyo/Integra is not forthcoming with the purpose of every FW update, and it may be possible that if you have a more recent update, that they may have addressed some HDMI connectivity issues. I'm just trying to figure out why you're not having the problem I am.
post #1077 of 5594
Thread Starter 
Mine is the same firmware: 87 1.04.
post #1078 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Here is the reason why I say a replacement unit: we can't rule out the possibility that this is a hardware error.

Secondly, OPPO will NEVER guarantee that a firmware will resolve your error. For this reason, they will not tell you to hold onto the player and see if they resolve the error in the future.

For OPPO there are only two real solutions: Refund or Replacement. If you like the DV-983H, it does not hurt you (it hurts OPPO financially) to have the unit replaced to ensure that your errors are not related to some kind of hardware defect. As I have noted, I have not had any issues with audio errors with my Integra 9.8 setup, so you can't assume that your errors are related to firmware malfunctions.

Let me just say that this unit is capable of a wonderful picture; I want things to work out here. However, I cannot live with this purchase with the kind of dropouts I've experienced. It's my hope that it is simply a malfunctioning unit. If Oppo is willing to let me try a replacement unit and extend my return privilege (which expires shortly) to allow for a reasonable test period, then I will go that route. If not, I'll have no other choice but to return it and hope that the issue is addressed by Oppo in the future.
post #1079 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Mine is the same firmware: 87 1.04.

Well, that blows one theory

Thanks for checking.
post #1080 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

I never said that these errors do not exist. What I have been saying all this time is we do not know the cause of these errors. That is, what is the underlying reason for them to occur.

I used the phrase "apparent position", as you appeared to have implied that the problem should not exist with the 983s as shipped, by your "replacement" suggestion. I'm glad you clarified your position.

My hope is that Oppo will be concerned about the problem enough to work with me on finding where the problem lies, but I will not put myself in the position of owning a player that may not ever "play" nice with my equipment.

It will be interesting to hear what Oppo wants to do here.
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