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Official OPPO DV-983H w/ ABT VRS FAQ/Dump - Page 59

post #1741 of 5594
5/1/08 at 2:13am
Interestingly, in relation to hdmi dropouts, I've just been sent "a beta firmware that accomplishes the same thing as the test hardware change made by Oppo".

I'll give it a go this evening.
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post #1742 of 5594
5/1/08 at 6:20am
I've been caught up with some difficult family situations lately and haven't had a chance to read all of this thread. I have the 981HD and am planning on the 983 at some point soon. Is this the time to buy, or should I wait a month or two for whatever bugs are showing up to be fixed?

Pardon my question that's probably been answered here earlier, but what's up with the HDMI out? I use HDMI to my pj and don't need dropout issues or whatever.

Thanks,
MB
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post #1743 of 5594
5/1/08 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Butler View Post

I've been caught up with some difficult family situations lately and haven't had a chance to read all of this thread. I have the 981HD and am planning on the 983 at some point soon. Is this the time to buy, or should I wait a month or two for whatever bugs are showing up to be fixed?

Pardon my question that's probably been answered here earlier, but what's up with the HDMI out? I use HDMI to my pj and don't need dropout issues or whatever.

Thanks,
MB

No promises, but it looks like the solution is getting close. This may be fixed with firmware, which is obviously better than having to replace a board.

To be absolutely certain you might wait for an official announcement and firmware release.

-Bill
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post #1744 of 5594
5/1/08 at 7:22am
I calibrated 983 yesterday and could not make out the blacker then black bars and the whiter then white bars. I assume it has to do with the RGB video setting. Does it hurt the picture quality setting it to RGB video manually instead of auto? Should I set it to RGB Video for calibration purposes and then reset it to auto? Bit insecure about it.
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post #1745 of 5594
5/1/08 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark or me? View Post

Interestingly, in relation to hdmi dropouts, I've just been sent "a beta firmware that accomplishes the same thing as the test hardware change made by Oppo".

I'll give it a go this evening.

Very interesting, and encouraging. Do they say what changes have been made in the firmware or what the test hardware modification was?
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post #1746 of 5594
5/1/08 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeropoint View Post

Very interesting, and encouraging. Do they say what changes have been made in the firmware or what the test hardware modification was?

No. I thought I'd try and get some more info when I had something to report back to them.

Vipers has had a "new hdmi board" but this was refered to as a "hardware modification" so i think it was more than just a straight swap.
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post #1747 of 5594
5/1/08 at 9:47am
Thread Starter 
No, it is a straight swap. HDMI board for HDMI board.

The firmware is completely software oriented and does not require any HDMI hardware alterations. If your current hardware has problems, the software can fix it.
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post #1748 of 5594
5/1/08 at 9:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heiwi View Post

I calibrated 983 yesterday and could not make out the blacker then black bars and the whiter then white bars. I assume it has to do with the RGB video setting. Does it hurt the picture quality setting it to RGB video manually instead of auto? Should I set it to RGB Video for calibration purposes and then reset it to auto? Bit insecure about it.

Depends on the design of your display. If your television or projector is designed for IRE 0 for RGB, then you will want to set the player to RGB PC.

If your display is not natively RGB, try using YCbCr 4:4:4 instead.
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post #1749 of 5594
5/1/08 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Depends on the design of your display. If your television or projector is designed for IRE 0 for RGB, then you will want to set the player to RGB PC.

If your display is not natively RGB, try using YCbCr 4:4:4 instead.

The setting for the projector is "PC Gamma" because it is closest to 2.2 reference. Therefore I assume I have to set the player to RGB PC in order to get the best picture out of the dvd.
Thanks for helping - will try it out tonight and report back here.
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post #1750 of 5594
5/1/08 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeropoint View Post

Very interesting, and encouraging. Do they say what changes have been made in the firmware or what the test hardware modification was?

The HDMI clock timing was adjusted first by a hardware change, then when that worked, they figured out how to do the same thing with firmware.

The HDMI output was within specs, but so close to the edge that unpredictable variations in player, cables, and receiving hardware could cause a fault.

This is why I'm glad I don't debug HDMI for a living. Player, cables and display can all be within spec and you can still have trouble.

The fix is to increase the safety margin on the clock timing of the HDMI output.

The firmware is still being tested, but looks good so far. Be patient, wait for the official release. Don't know exactly how long; obviously intermittent errors like this need to be exercised throughly before we can be confident they have been eliminated.

-Bill
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post #1751 of 5594
5/1/08 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The HDMI clock timing was adjusted first by a hardware change, then when that worked, they figured out how to do the same thing with firmware.

The HDMI output was within specs, but so close to the edge that unpredictable variations in player, cables, and receiving hardware could cause a fault.

This is why I'm glad I don't debug HDMI for a living. Player, cables and display can all be within spec and you can still have trouble.

The fix is to increase the safety margin on the clock timing of the HDMI output.

The firmware is still being tested, but looks good so far. Be patient, wait for the official release. Don't know exactly how long; obviously intermittent errors like this need to be exercised throughly before we can be confident they have been eliminated.

-Bill

Terrific info. And a great illustration of what sets OPPO Digital apart from other consumer electronics companies. Dogged determination to get things right with the technical expertise to do so.

Dana
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post #1752 of 5594
5/1/08 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The HDMI clock timing was adjusted first by a hardware change, then when that worked, they figured out how to do the same thing with firmware.

The HDMI output was within specs, but so close to the edge that unpredictable variations in player, cables, and receiving hardware could cause a fault.

This is why I'm glad I don't debug HDMI for a living. Player, cables and display can all be within spec and you can still have trouble.

The fix is to increase the safety margin on the clock timing of the HDMI output.

The firmware is still being tested, but looks good so far. Be patient, wait for the official release. Don't know exactly how long; obviously intermittent errors like this need to be exercised throughly before we can be confident they have been eliminated.

-Bill
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post #1753 of 5594
5/1/08 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heiwi View Post

The setting for the projector is "PC Gamma" because it is closest to 2.2 reference. Therefore I assume I have to set the player to RGB PC in order to get the best picture out of the dvd.

No. PC RGB is completely unrelated to gamma. You need to try the YCbCr or RGB Video settings to show Blacker-Than-Black and WTW. However, if your display cannot be calibrated correctly with those settings, it may be expecting PC RGB, in which case you can only set the 983 to RGB PC, and BTB/WTW will probably not show up.

Gary
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post #1754 of 5594
5/1/08 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The HDMI clock timing was adjusted first by a hardware change, then when that worked, they figured out how to do the same thing with firmware.

The HDMI output was within specs, but so close to the edge that unpredictable variations in player, cables, and receiving hardware could cause a fault.

This is why I'm glad I don't debug HDMI for a living. Player, cables and display can all be within spec and you can still have trouble.

The fix is to increase the safety margin on the clock timing of the HDMI output.

This looks like another slam-dunk for OPPO. According to tests by OPPO and ABT, their HDMI signal integrity eye-diagrams look really good. It was just a small clock-to-data timing issue. Thankfully, the new FW does an even better job than the hardware fix. It was truly incredible how fast they found root cause and introduced a fix. It works perfectly on my machine... We'll know soon enough whether it works in all cases.

Gary
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post #1755 of 5594
5/1/08 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

Terrific info. And a great illustration of what sets OPPO Digital apart from other consumer electronics companies. Dogged determination to get things right with the technical expertise to do so.

Dana

Yes indeed - unlike, say, Toshiba who released Fw ver 2.0 for my A35 that caused terrible jaggies when using 1080p/24 on VC1 encoded discs. And to make things worse, there is no official way to go back to the earlier 1.3 firmware. And to make matters worse still, the ver 2.0 firmware actually did *nothing* and was simply a 'get ready' for when the DVD producers *might* have decided to add a flag to enable auto 1080p frame rate switching (which of course will now be *never* as HD-DVD is dead)! Fortunately a guy on the forums here made a reverse-engineered fix so people could 'downgrade' back to 1.3. Toshiba are still silent on the entire issue. That sort of experience shows us just how incredibly good Oppo are when it comes to customer support. I've never owned an Oppo product before my (amazingly superb) 983H - but you can bet the farm that I will own another!
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post #1756 of 5594
5/1/08 at 1:11pm
They're all crap for CS now-a-days... Onkyo/integra, Yamaha, Denon, Toshiba, Samsung, Sony... all crap. From what I've witnessed over the last few years there is only one place that still has good CS, and that's Amazon.com. There is then only one place that has GREAT CS, and that's Oppo.
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post #1757 of 5594
5/1/08 at 1:15pm
Hopefully this new firmware will also fix the SACD Priority being incorrectly modified when you play a Stereo SACD?
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post #1758 of 5594
5/1/08 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark or me? View Post

Interestingly, in relation to hdmi dropouts, I've just been sent "a beta firmware that accomplishes the same thing as the test hardware change made by Oppo".

I'll give it a go this evening.

Just Got new firmware update as well!

SolutionsAV just emailed me an new firmware update for the HDMI issue as well. Will try it tonight and see what happens.

fish1050
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post #1759 of 5594
5/1/08 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekari View Post

Hopefully this new firmware will also fix the SACD Priority being incorrectly modified when you play a Stereo SACD?

I don't know what other features are included in upcoming firmware.

-Bill
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post #1760 of 5594
5/1/08 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekari View Post

Hopefully this new firmware will also fix the SACD Priority being incorrectly modified when you play a Stereo SACD?

Oh please, yes. That's driving me crazy.
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post #1761 of 5594
5/1/08 at 3:51pm
Bravo, Oppo, Bravo!

It's great to hear the dropout's cause was found and a fix is nearly ready.
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post #1762 of 5594
5/1/08 at 3:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The HDMI clock timing was adjusted first by a hardware change, then when that worked, they figured out how to do the same thing with firmware.

The HDMI output was within specs, but so close to the edge that unpredictable variations in player, cables, and receiving hardware could cause a fault.

This is why I'm glad I don't debug HDMI for a living. Player, cables and display can all be within spec and you can still have trouble.

The fix is to increase the safety margin on the clock timing of the HDMI output.

The firmware is still being tested, but looks good so far. Be patient, wait for the official release. Don't know exactly how long; obviously intermittent errors like this need to be exercised throughly before we can be confident they have been eliminated.

-Bill

Thanks, that's great news. Well done Oppo, impressive support - very reassuring.
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post #1763 of 5594
5/1/08 at 3:57pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekari View Post

Hopefully this new firmware will also fix the SACD Priority being incorrectly modified when you play a Stereo SACD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Stein View Post

Oh please, yes. That's driving me crazy.

The firmware only addresses the dropout errors.
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post #1764 of 5594
5/1/08 at 4:00pm
Well for all of you waiting, check your email. I just got the pre-order link from Oppo. Looks like they will ship the third week of May.

I've already picked up a different player, so that leaves one more for those that want one.
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post #1765 of 5594
5/1/08 at 4:31pm
Thread Starter 
wmcclain has already posted how OPPO was able to fix this through firmware. A hardware alteration is no longer necessary, unless something crops up in the following weeks.

The issue comes down completely to data tolerances. OPPO just opened their tolerances a bit more through software to allow for more fringe data to be sent properly. Timings are easily software addressable.
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post #1766 of 5594
5/1/08 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

I'm sorry but I need to ask this question. I do not own a 983 but am in the process of deciding about 980, 983, different maker, etc. Does this firmware fix the problem or does it manage it? In other words there is a hardware issue. The engineers found a way to minimize its effect by doing something in the firmware that removes the symptom, the audio drop, so users don't have the audio drop but the hardware piece that is impaired is still in play? So the firmware is a work around, manages the symptom but does not "fix" the issue. Not trying to stir up trouble. Just trying to make absolutely sure that if I spend what the 983 cost I'm not buying a high priced unit that has a hardware issue. If the firmware fixes it, that's great and I have no idea one way or the other and I am not dissing OPPO. However IF the issue is hardware level and the hardware really needs to be changed, hdmi chip, etc., then that is a different matter if we are just bypassing the symptom with a firmware tweak. After all we are talking about a high priced dvd player here so I want to make sure what the fix is fixing.

The new firmware improved the HDMI compatibility, thus fixed the video/audio dropout issue on certain device combination. This is not a hardware issue. The initial hardware modification is to help identify the root cause.
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post #1767 of 5594
5/1/08 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

I'm sorry but I need to ask this question. I do not own a 983 but am in the process of deciding about 980, 983, different maker, etc. Does this firmware fix the problem or does it manage it? In other words there is a hardware issue. The engineers found a way to minimize its effect by doing something in the firmware that removes the symptom, the audio drop, so users don't have the audio drop but the hardware piece that is impaired is still in play? So the firmware is a work around, manages the symptom but does not "fix" the issue. Not trying to stir up trouble. Just trying to make absolutely sure that if I spend what the 983 cost I'm not buying a high priced unit that has a hardware issue. If the firmware fixes it, that's great and I have no idea one way or the other and I am not dissing OPPO. However IF the issue is hardware level and the hardware really needs to be changed, hdmi chip, etc., then that is a different matter if we are just bypassing the symptom with a firmware tweak. After all we are talking about a high priced dvd player here so I want to make sure what the fix is fixing.

Technically there is nothing wrong with their hardware. it was certified, in every way, pass all tests, and works with probably over 95% of owners out there, including myself...

So to increase the tolerances with firmware vs hardware, really doesn't matter. It going to help fix it for few folks having issues. They went above and beyond for these few customers.
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post #1768 of 5594
5/1/08 at 5:44pm
Just put my pre-order in for one of these babes, can't wait to see what my old SD DVD's look like on my 65". Can't really get anyone of my new HD players to come close to the old look I had on my 50" RPTV. But since Hi-Def is the only way to go I went that way last year on all 3 TV in my home. Hope it comes close to the Blu Ray or HD images
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post #1769 of 5594
5/1/08 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Thank you gentlemen but that doesn't really answer my question. There is a difference between managing the symptom via firmware and fixing the problem. If the problem was firmware from the get go, ok, firmware fixes it as in really fixes it. If however the problem still exist at the hardware level and the firmware acts to eliminate the symptom, that is a different matter. I have no idea what the issue was/is. That's why I'm asking. An answer like, "opened their tolerances..." sounds good but means very little. And "improved the hdmi compatibility" also sounds good but simply restates the issue that was being addressed. Why did it need to be addressed in the first place as in where did the hdmi incompatibility come from? Hardware or firmware?

Here's what OPPO explained, and as an Electronics Engineer, I fully understand, because I've had to deal with this kind of issue before...

According to signal integrity tests done by OPPO and ABT, the 983's HDMI signal looks excellent (HARDWARE is fine). The problem was a clock-to-data timing issue (a simple FIRMWARE fix).

The HDMI clock edge was marginally close to the HDMI data edge. Since the data is read on the clock edge, timing tolerances in the receiving equipment could intermittently cause data values to be read before they've had enough time to change properly. This would cause momentary data errors (drop-outs). So OPPO delayed the clock edge to make sure that the data has enough setup-and-hold time before being read.

Gary
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post #1770 of 5594
5/1/08 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj121391 View Post

Just put my pre-order in for one of these babes, can't wait to see what my old SD DVD's look like on my 65". Can't really get anyone of my new HD players to come close to the old look I had on my 50" RPTV. But since Hi-Def is the only way to go I went that way last year on all 3 TV in my home. Hope it comes close to the Blu Ray or HD images


Anyone heard when these will be shipping again? I signed up 2 weeks ago and have not heard anything yet. I am taking a wild guess but my thinking was they did not want to sell anymore until they got some of the issues solved and it now sounds like they have. So I am thinking more might be available soon.
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