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AVS Discussion on Blu Ray Recorders

post #1 of 31
2/29/08 at 5:44pm
Thread Starter 
While i'm strongly considering the upcoming Marantz, i wonder if there will be a model out this year that will also record. Didn't see anything from CES to indicate a 2008 release and waiting another year isn't worth it.
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post #2 of 31
2/29/08 at 5:52pm
I would love to see it also but i bet the mpaa would never allow it in the US.
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post #3 of 31
4/14/08 at 5:57am
Lacking anyway of permantly storing high def content on a DVR, I'd also like to see a BR recording option become available soon.
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post #4 of 31
4/14/08 at 1:05pm
Thread Starter 
Just wondering if this would work - do the blu-ray recorders in Japan have a firewire imput? If so, would feeding firewire from a cable box successfully record HD?
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post #5 of 31
4/14/08 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gary cornell View Post

Just wondering if this would work - do the blu-ray recorders in Japan have a firewire imput? If so, would feeding firewire from a cable box successfully record HD?

Yes I believe the recorders in Japan have both internal tuner and firewire input. The recorder however it has to follow 5C flags.

Content can be flagged as either
Copy-Any
Copy-Once
Copy-Never

If such a device came to the US the content industry simply could turn on the 5C flag for everything except broadcast channels to Copy-Never. 5 years ago I could copy anything off firewire port on my cable box. 3 years ago I could copy anything except premium channels (HBO, etc). Today I would say 80%+ has a Copy-Never flag. Even "low value" stuff like 5 year old reruns of Futurama on cartoon network.

If such a box hit the US I would expect almost overnight that all channels except OTA retransmits (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CW) would be flagged as Copy-Never.

Only channels that FFC prohibits any restriction are broadcast networks.
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post #6 of 31
4/14/08 at 4:09pm
Gotta love how all these stipulations has slowed progress in the states to almost a
screeching halt for the consumer.
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post #7 of 31
4/14/08 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by namechamps View Post

Only channels that FFC prohibits any restriction are broadcast networks.


I'll admit I'm not on top of this recently, but I believe that is not correct. From my understanding, the ONLY channels that could be flagged as copy never was PPV...

Edit: Here we go:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-03-225A1.pdf

"The defined business models and corresponding copy protection
caps proposed in the draft rules include:

(1) Unencrypted broadcast television – no copy restrictions may be imposed;
(2) Pay television, non-premium subscription television, and free conditional access
delivery transmissions – one generation of copies is the most stringent restriction
that may be imposed; and
(3) VOD, PPV, or Subscription-on-Demand transmissions – no copies is the most
stringent restriction that may be imposed, however, even when no copies are
allowed, such content may be paused up to 90 minutes from its initial
transmission."

So, if you cable company is flagging everything as copy-never, that is in violation of the FCC rules, unless they have changed them recently.
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post #8 of 31
4/16/08 at 1:58pm
Yes, those are still the rules, and cable companies cannot mark anything copy never except VOD and PPV.
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post #9 of 31
4/16/08 at 8:32pm
a ps3 add on that will enable DVR recording capability is coming.


http://www.bdgamers.net/2007/08/24/p...vr-add-on.html
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post #10 of 31
4/20/08 at 5:38pm
Thread Starter 
Looks like i'll be using my JVC DVHS for a few more years - nothing wrong with tape.
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post #11 of 31
10/29/08 at 11:38am
Anyone heard any current news on a recording possibly coming out next year for the worldwide market? There have been rumours, but nothing confirmed. Im hoping with the change in transmissions from analog to digital for the US market, they will put one out for North America early next year.
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post #12 of 31
10/29/08 at 3:16pm
Panasonic will be introducing Blu-ray recorder in US in the first half of next year.
Here is the article http://hdguru.com/ceatec-2008-the-hd...rom-japan/298/
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post #13 of 31
10/29/08 at 7:42pm
I wonder how their US Blu-ray recorder will get its input? Firewire is not very well supported by cable companies. It would be great if it had its own tuner and a CableCARD slot.
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post #14 of 31
10/29/08 at 11:06pm
Thanks for the news CKNA. I too wonder how they will get the video into the recorder. The cable companies here tell us about copyright and saying we aren't even allowed to copy programs off tv, so therefore they won't enable us to do it by having a HD port for video to come out of their boxes. Personally I thought home recording was allowed as long as its for private viewing. Didn't the VHS law allow us to do such recordings?
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post #15 of 31
10/30/08 at 8:06am
There is an FCC rule requiring that cable companies provide a working firewire port, but many cable companies seem to routinely ignore it.
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post #16 of 31
10/30/08 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by braxus View Post

Thanks for the news CKNA. I too wonder how they will get the video into the recorder. The cable companies here tell us about copyright and saying we aren't even allowed to copy programs off tv, so therefore they won't enable us to do it by having a HD port for video to come out of their boxes. Personally I thought home recording was allowed as long as its for private viewing. Didn't the VHS law allow us to do such recordings?

US recorder will almost certainly have firewire 5C protected, cable card/tru2way slot and OTA tuner. I have Japanese Panasonic Blu-ray recorder with firewire, which works very well with Cox cable.
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post #17 of 31
10/30/08 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CKNA View Post

US recorder will almost certainly have firewire 5C protected, cable card/tru2way slot and OTA tuner. I have Japanese Panasonic Blu-ray recorder with firewire, which works very well with Cox cable.

Not sure I understand what all that is. I just checked on the 5C thing and I hope not all channels use this copy protection. Would the news use it? I just checked our local cable HD box and it does output through 1394. So I do have that option here. Also does owning a Blu Ray recorder from Japan read this 5C protection? And it seems OTA cards only accept over the air broadcasts which means you'd need the cable box anyway to get the signals. Or am I incorrect on that?


Also found this on the net which was interesting:

"Trolling around the internet I discovered a process to determine if a
channel is 5C protected and therefore cannot be recorded over
FireWire. This applies to the Motorola DCT series of STB.

Tune to the channel you want to check. Press the Cable button then
the Power button to turn the STB off. Immediately after pressing the
Power button press the OK/Select button (mines in the middle fo the
remote). This should bring up the DIAGNOSTICS screen. Press the down
arrow until you get to d11. Press the right arrow to get to the
INTERFACE STATUS page. Under the 1394 I/O DEVICE section you'll see
5C IMPLEMENTATION. If it's any value other than 0 you can't record
that channel via FireWire. Repeat for every other channel you want to
check. To exit press the left arrow then press the down arrow until
you get to Exit and press the right arrow.

I think this will help a lot of unable to record over FireWire
problems I've been reading about. I've noticed a lot of channels in
my area (Eugene, OR) that I used to be able to record failing. I
guess I know why now. "
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post #18 of 31
10/30/08 at 1:02pm
This may sound like a stupid question but living in the US where would I go online to puchase a Blu Ray recorder such as the panny online? if anywhere at all.
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post #19 of 31
10/30/08 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by braxus View Post

Not sure I understand what all that is. I just checked on the 5C thing and I hope not all channels use this copy protection. Would the news use it? I just checked our local cable HD box and it does output through 1394. So I do have that option here. Also does owning a Blu Ray recorder from Japan read this 5C protection? And it seems OTA cards only accept over the air broadcasts which means you'd need the cable box anyway to get the signals. Or am I incorrect on that?


Also found this on the net which was interesting:

"Trolling around the internet I discovered a process to determine if a
channel is 5C protected and therefore cannot be recorded over
FireWire. This applies to the Motorola DCT series of STB.

Tune to the channel you want to check. Press the Cable button then
the Power button to turn the STB off. Immediately after pressing the
Power button press the OK/Select button (mines in the middle fo the
remote). This should bring up the DIAGNOSTICS screen. Press the down
arrow until you get to d11. Press the right arrow to get to the
INTERFACE STATUS page. Under the 1394 I/O DEVICE section you'll see
5C IMPLEMENTATION. If it's any value other than 0 you can't record
that channel via FireWire. Repeat for every other channel you want to
check. To exit press the left arrow then press the down arrow until
you get to Exit and press the right arrow.

I think this will help a lot of unable to record over FireWire
problems I've been reading about. I've noticed a lot of channels in
my area (Eugene, OR) that I used to be able to record failing. I
guess I know why now. "


5c is what is used on all firewire boxes from cable co. It can specify copy free, copy once, copy no more and copy never. It is what DVHS recorders have and Blu-ray recorders in Japan.

Your problem is that you were recording to computer. Computer cards do not have 5c. If you had DVHS recorder you could still record.
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post #20 of 31
12/29/08 at 4:59pm
Was going too start a new thread...
maybe better too just piggyback onto this one:
"Recorder (standalone) CES '09"
Hopefully we'll have info soon!

Happy New Yr!
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post #21 of 31
12/29/08 at 8:20pm
Comcast in Atlanta is copy-protecting HBO at least part of the time; I wanted a BR recorder , but the WD Media player works well as a permanent storage device and I'm satisfied with it.
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post #22 of 31
12/30/08 at 5:51am
I'd like to see TiVo put a BD burner into one of their HD boxes. Now that I would buy in a heartbeat.

I had a S2 Humax with a DVD burner in it and that was a God send every once in a while

Seggers
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post #23 of 31
12/30/08 at 5:59am
I would like a BD recorder for a different reason and am wondering if the computer based BD recorders work good. They are all around $600-700 but I have some very sentimental HD video I would like to preserve onto BD. I do not want to keep this material on my camcorder HD tapes and would like to edit it on my computer and put it on blu-ray so I can watch it in the years to come.

thanks! Mike
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post #24 of 31
12/30/08 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrums View Post

I would like a BD recorder for a different reason and am wondering if the computer based BD recorders work good. They are all around $600-700 but I have some very sentimental HD video I would like to preserve onto BD. I do not want to keep this material on my camcorder HD tapes and would like to edit it on my computer and put it on blu-ray so I can watch it in the years to come.

thanks! Mike

Maybe in the meantime, you could try one of those Western Digital WD TV media players. It will play HD material from a connected USB hard drive.
There is a thread about it on here somewhere.
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post #25 of 31
12/31/08 at 9:16pm
What's a standalone BD recorder going for in Japan these days?
Happy '09!
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post #26 of 31
1/8/09 at 6:52pm
CES bump
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post #27 of 31
1/9/09 at 12:11pm
Yes any new news on any Blu Ray recorders from Panasonic or any other brand at CES this year?
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post #28 of 31
1/11/09 at 8:35pm
Nothing Blu?
I mean "new"?
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post #29 of 31
3/30/12 at 2:54am
Wondered if anyone has experience with one of the Blu Ray recording decks? I see there are models out there by Tascam, JVC, and Panasonic, with the first two being quite overpriced. I've found very few end user reviews, and they seemed to be people who actually thought that they were going to be able to defeat copy protection and got angry when they couldn't. We are looking for something with firewire input to transfer MiniDV.

Thanks for any ideas!
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post #30 of 31
3/30/12 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorO View Post

Wondered if anyone has experience with one of the Blu Ray recording decks? I see there are models out there by Tascam, JVC, and Panasonic, with the first two being quite overpriced. I've found very few end user reviews, and they seemed to be people who actually thought that they were going to be able to defeat copy protection and got angry when they couldn't. We are looking for something with firewire input to transfer MiniDV.

Thanks for any ideas!

You mean a STB (Set Top Box), as opposed to a blu-ray burner for use inside a PC?

If yes, change the title of this thread to reflect that (you're the OP and you can do that on your own).

FWIW I tried to find "Tascam, JVC, and Panasonic" STB units on amazon and it wasn't easy to find (I only gave it a few minutes and gave up).

So you might also provide the model numbers of the Tascam, JVC, and Panasonic units so that people can find what you're talking about via a google/amazon search.
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