Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter - Page 123

No Problems
What do you call the situation you are describing?
As I understand it, the EPG is supposed to to be an Extended Program Guide.
When you go to the Guide, it should display Program Information for all the stations, since it was off, and would have been able to do scans.

The bad news is that it sounds like your EPG is broken.
The good news is that your timers work, but that may be because your EPG is broken.

I guess that is the DTVpal world.

I had my first bad timer experience today. The DTVPal was supposed to come on at 5:28 and stay on for 34 minutes. I was home and saw that didnt come on at 5:28. I also saw that the station time was 17 minutes behind, which is what caused the timer to misfire. This is strange because the first day I used the Pal, the time on that station was correct within about 2 or 3 minutes.

As I was typing this, I turned my DTVPal on to see if the time on the channel was correct, and it was...but I just checked the timer and the channel for it has changed! grr.

I was gonna post that since I bought it I havent seen my DTVPal doing an EPG download whenever I turn it on...until I did just now and it showed the "downloading" screen. I wonder if thats when the channel for my timer changed.

so what now? Sears wont let me have my money back, and I'm guessing all the ones they have in stock now are the same as this one (F100TCGH-N). Do I just have to grin and bare it...or should I take it back for exchange at the time the exchange period is about to end so that I get a new receipt and new exchange period?

Sounds like it your DTVPal is acting like the Zenith where you have to view the channels first to get the guide information available.

If it was implemented like this and the timers worked I am sure more people would be happy about the timers working.

Then again people that don't use timers would start to complain about loosing the luxury of not having to visit every channel first to get the guide information.

Personally, I would pick the luxury guide as I mostly watch live TV and don't record everything to view later. It would be more functional implement "as is" for most Americans as they also don't record that much if at all.

Obviously, the government approved the DTVpal, but are they monitoring the problems being reported in this forum? Are enough DTVpal users affected so that someone from the government should demand that EchoStar fix the problems or lose certification? I don't own one of these boxes, but, perhaps those who have malfunctioning boxes need to contact a CECB certification official to inform them of the number of boxes having problems. This may be the best avenue to get a fixed DTVpal.

I doubt that the FCC people looked at any of the things that are being discussed. To the FCC, these are all extra features.

The set does convert digital channels to a version viewable on an analog TV. I don't believe they require a whole lot more.

Aren't all the problems some people are experiencing with the DTVPal outside of the basic requirements of a CECB?

Some people may find this useful.
Especially if the DTVPal is still holding onto something like CBS and you can manually add stations after doing a system reset with the antenna disconnected.

I recovered these posts using Google Cache because of the interest in the time drift.
Please let us know if it drifted any more after you removed CBS and what Kevin says if you do talk to him today.

Thanks for your efforts, Malouff. Obviously, the loss of posts made since Aug. 2nd was caused by threats against the AVS forums site by Dish Network and 16 pointed-hat gremlins who like to make children cry.

In Idaho.

Huh. Looks like all the talk about quartz crystal oscillators and periodic interrupts is now just a memory of a nightmare I once had...

No problem, Here are some Google Cache links if you want to reserect anything else.

That or try 64.233.167.104/search?q=cache: and then the www.avsforum link

Here is the main subforum
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...play.php?f=186
Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter (Page 132)
Dish DTVPal technical and TVGOS topic (Page 27)
Zinwell ZAT-970A? (Page 5)

Because we lost my previous posts from the last week I thought I would re-report that my DTVPal is losing 15-20 seconds per hour (about 7 minutes every 24 hours) when it is not allowed to go back to my CBS "time-lock" station to do a re-sync. The loss of time seems to be a linear progression on my DTVPal. As soon as I manually tune to the CBS station my DTVPal's clock immediately jumps ahead to the correct time (if it was running slow compared to the CBS station). The DTVPal needs that regular re-sync with the CBS "time-lock" station to remain accurate.

I had a telephone conversation with Kevin Hutchison (DTVPal Product Marketing Manager) at Dish Network earlier today and he told me that the exchange process for our DTVPals should be ready to go "in a matter of days" (his words)-probably by the end of this week. He explained to me that Dish will be sending out F105 boxes to replace our current bug-ridden boxes. A physical exchange will have to take place. I pressed him for the exact details of how this procedure would work and he said they are in the final stages of ironing out the details at this time.

I expressed my concerns that previous CSRs and tech support people that I have talked to at Dish would not help me out because I had not purchased my boxes directly from Dish. I told him that others on this forum had reported the same experiences. He took note of that and assured me that the front-line CSR people on the phone at Dish will be told/instructed that they will do exchanges for anyone who needs it no matter where their DTVPals were purchased.

While I had him on the phone I asked him about the Dish Network TR-40CRA box that is on the NTIA list. He told me that it will be available "nationwide" in "a few weeks" and "for a limited time" and "for the price of $40." He told me that the reason it is coming to market is because there is still quite a demand for a $40 CECB. He admitted that the TR-40CRA will be the same box as the DTVPal but without the same "branding" that the DTVPal has. I asked which software version would be in these new TR-40CRAs when they came to market and he told me he did not know that at this time. I asked about specific retailers who would be selling it and he told me he did not have that information available just yet.

Well that is the update for now. I'm scheduled to talk with Kevin again at the end of this week. I'm hoping that the exchange process is good to go by then so that I can get my two F100 boxes exchanged for the new F105s. Hopefully the F105s work as they are supposed to so that we don't have to go through all of this again! To be continued.....

You mean there are people who would prefer to pay $20 less for the same thing? If that's what they call market research, how do I get that job?

Seriously, though, thanks for the "inside line". When you speak to him again, please ask if he found out any of the things he didn't know, especially the availability of the TR-40 -- when, where, and for how "limited" a time.

Thanks for the update.
Just hope thats the light at the end of the tunnel, and not a train.

The related questions that immediately came to mind:
1. Have the DTVpal F105s have entered the retail pipeline?
2. If they have, when did it happen?
3. Can the F105s be identified by anything on the packaging?

There is some good news in there except I was expecting F10x by now and don't think it was yet fix durring beta testing.

You do remember the hint with the post that got deleted don't you?
It said something like contrary to popular belief the EPG screen does not happen that way and it is not yet know what of several factors are responsible. - I don't remember exactly what it said but love getting hints like that.

Also anyone remember a post about MicroTune?

Do you guys think there Tuner is any better?
Does anyone think it is the problem for the Falcon Digital Converters?

This was the best news yet.
I know I said I was going to call him also but haven't yet.
I figured I already knew you were going to call back and didn't want to confuse Kevien any more with more questions.

I did email Francie though but didn't get a reply back.
Maybe calling Kevin next week would be a better time as they might have ironed out the details by then.

Thank you trp2525 for this important update and keeping us in the loop.

Considering that pabeader reported over the weekend that they had NOT been able to figure out all the problems as of F105, this is not encouraging.

Sort of off topic, but it can be viewed as on...

Got my Zinwell Zat today.

VERY strange differences in the reception when compared to the DTVPal.

Picked up two different channels my two Pals didn't.

One of them the Pals sort of got, but only by putting up a new set of giant pixels on the screen every ten to fifteen seconds. That channel now comes in PERFECTLY on the Zat. (I still had to delete it...it's a Spanish language channel and my Spanish isn't good enough to follow anything.)

The other channel? My Pals never got that one at all. (It too had to be deleted since it was breaking up, but it DID come in.)

Okay. Better tuner, right?

Ummmm....

My NBC, FOX, and CW affilate are all coming in with breakups which just didn't happen with the Pal I had in that same room, antenna not moved an inch.

I suppose I could try moving the antenna a bit and see if I can improve things, but it's a little strange.

If anything changes I'll let you know, but I hope the replacement program with DISH does actually result in us getting defect-free boxes. Those little things worked pretty well as tuners.

Don't worry. This is just a stopgap measure they're using to calm us down until we realize the 105s are still bad, and then there'll be ANOTHER replacement program...once they're sure the 110s are really glitch-free.

So you wouldin't take an exchage just yet then?

Also are we sure it will be a F105, after all Kevin Hutchison is the DTVPal Product Marketing Manager at Dish Network.
His job is Marketing so he may not be keept up to date on everything but at least is in the DTVPal product loop unlike the CSR's and TSR's that also should be.

Here's an email I got from Echostar's tech support when I emailed them about the problems with the timers:

Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:31 PM
To: Tech
Subject: Problem with DTVPal timers

Dear Mr. Wiser,

Thank you for your email. As a digital to analog converter box, the DTVPal is designed to allow analog and digital to work together after the FCC 100% digital conversion in February 2009. The DTVPal has the capability of setting up auto tune timers using your electronic program guide and there might be confusion when setting up these timers because of the different capabilities.

When setting up an auto tune timer:

Go into the electronic program guide of the DTVPal and select the channel that the program you want to record is on.
Pressing the right arrow button on the Dish Network remote scroll over to the program that you want to record and press select
This will bring you to a Timers Setup menu; verify that the correct program is displayed on the screen with the correct show time.
Select done on the right hand side and this will save the timer to the timer list
Verify the TV is on channel 3or4 when the TV is powered off for the timer to fire on the correct channel to record.

NOTE: There is a maximum of 5 auto tune timers set up at one time on the DTVPal



Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have further questions you can respond to this e-mail or access our online technical support at the following link: http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departme...al/index.shtml

A Technical Service Representative is available via live chat 24 hours a day, 7 days per week regarding your concerns. Please click the following link to use this option. http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departme...formrf23.shtml

Thank you,

Jack H

DISH Network Technical E-care

** Please include all previous correspondence when replying. **


Quite useless...essentially a cue card type response that doesnt address the issue.


At any rate, for those that have been talking to Kevin Hutchinson, if you speak with him again would you also mind asking him if they'd consider adding in a feature where the DTVPal shuts off at the end of the timed event?

Wouldn't the inactivity timer turn the DTVPal back off after an event?
(It wouldn't work with it disabled so for now your remote will have to work)

Speaking of the end time for the timers.
I still don't understand what is the end time is suppose to be for?
I would understand it being used in something that can record so it would stop but the DTVPal is not a recording device.

I wish you would stop trying your luck contacting the CSR's and TSR's that do not know anything about the DTVPal and also try Kevin.

He would probably eventually get bombarded with calls if everyone contacts him and talk about handing down information to the CSR's and TSR's althought from trp2525's last response with him they may already be working on that.

The inactivity timer would shut it off eventually...but I would like it to be more like my VCR...it comes on when recording starts...it shuts off when recordings over. If it's not gonna shut off at the end of the event, as you said...what is the end time for?

The end of an event should put the unit back into standby if there's not another event starting up at that time.

The end time should also be used for overlap/conflict checking.

Why would anyone want the hassle and expense of exchanging the unit multiple times? I want to do it once and get a unit with all the bugs fixed.

If the beta testers currently have F105 and are saying it's not fixed and Dish Network hasn't yet determined why, it sure doesn't sound like it's time to start a mass swap, does it?

I generally don't believe in conspiracy theories, but this was certainly a convenient coincidence, wasn't it?

Could this be explaining trp2525's time drift problem?
Are you sure it goes back into standby?

I can see it being needed if the above is true about it going back into standby.

If the expense is being paid by Dish Network why not go for it. We all already paid $20 for returns/exchanges
at least I hope that is why we all paid $20+ more than what the TR-40 will be sold for.

Well why not test it out if we don't have any expense for the return/exchange except for the time it takes to contact Dish Network.

I wish they were smart enough to have a product registration to keep track of us


At least you guys can help test for bugs and hopefully they will have a bug submition form to track down what is causing these problems.

We also don't know what has changed from the current F100 and F101 to F10x.

I'm not really sure of anything when it comes to the DTVPal. It has numerous design flaws and the current implementation is very buggy. It's pretty fruitless to spend a lot of time trying to reverse engineer their mess when in the end there's nobody at Dish Network interested in what you might have found.


Any time a new timer is added, it needs to be checked that it doesn't overlap an already existing timer, regardless of how standby is handled.

I agree that timers do need to be checked for conflicts but if the DTVPal does not use the end time for anything other then to check for conflicts why even have it?