Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter - Page 148

Just a recap to bring the stupid people (like myself) up to speed on this left shift issue...

It's left shifted because the pic you have isn't centered properly (more black on the right then the left...)?

This behavior is displayed on an alternative TV(s) too? (update: I noticed your pics on the other thread it does appear that way) Alternative CECBs don't have this problem or correct for it? There are no adjustments in the TV or CECB to cause/correct/adjust this?

This isn't a TV broadcast issue?

I was expecting to see some other Pics with your "Left Shift" pic for comparison. For the "doubting Thomas" folks, taking out some of the variables I mentioned.

Using the browse button to keep the signal meter on indefinitely was a great tip!

I'd been ignoring the browse button, and it has the very feature I'd been missing since I moved my Zenith to another tv. I like being able to monitor the current channel while I view other channels in the guide. The DTVPal's browse button gives me that, but I don't remember anybody pointing that out to me when I said the guide didn't let me monitor the current channel. I read the manual before I had the box, so it didn't mean much then. The browse button is handy, and last night while I was using the CM7000, I missed it.

RE: Browse button

That is odd somebody didn't say for the Guide feature... "Lets do the "Browse" feature but put the guide grid up instead"... Leaving the current channel as the backdrop... Maybe for F10X...

Yes...the shift occurs in any mode, it is just easier to see on 4:3 broadcasts viewed in normal or full mode (as shown) due to the pillars.


Yes it is the same on all of the TV sets I have tried (four in all) with all four DTVPals I have had.
Others have said that some CECB's do have this issue and others do not. All of the other sources I have tried do not display an off center image.
There is no adjustment available to the user for the DTVPal to correct this (as far as I know) and some TV's may have centering adjustments, mine do not.
A broadcast issue...I highly doubt it since, as I said, all other digital tuners I have tried do not display an off center image.


OK. Sony01 shows the Pals left shifted image and Sony 02 shows the Sonys native tuner image of a 4:3 broadcast which clearly shows the image is centered.

POST 4419: That's a 4:3 set isn't it? Why does it have black bars on the left-and-right of the image? It should not have any bars for that replay of Friends. ALSO: I think the difference is trivial. When an image is displayed, a certain amount is "overscanned" off the sides of the CRT (behind the plastic edging). Why does it matter if it's a overscanned a little more on the left side than the right?

Analog sets have never been very precise as far as centering. Never. You're expecting too much from a standard that was developed in the 1930s.
I don't recall if I pressed the menu button. I do recall the DTVpal's stupid pop-up screen kept switching between "lost signal" and a second popup screen that said "more information", and I felt like I was getting nowhere. I never did get channel 10's signal bar to be visible.

I was very frustrated with what I considered poor software design. And I'm an engineer who grew-up with some real primitive software (Atari and Commodore 8-bits). How do you think a non-technical person is going to react to those two annoying popup screens? Not favorably I suspect.

Yes it is an analog 4:3 set (why would I need a Pal if was digital..duh).
And, I would also think that the Pal would produce a full picture of a 4:3 broadcast in normal mode, but it does not. Normal and full mode produce postage stamp and pillars respectively for 4:3 broadcasts.
It may be trivial to you but is it NOT to me...and I am not expecting anything from the analog TV's I am expecting something from the DTVPal.
Thanks for your two cents anyway.

ProsPops went to the trouble of providing the pics to illustrate the picture shift he has encountered and is asking for feedback if
anyone else has noticed the picture shift when a 4:3 image is pillared. In this mode, it is the easiest to check for this on a 4:3 analog CRT.

Also check if your main menu is centered, and mention your firmware version and if you tried it on more than one TV, to rule out the TV.

I think this may be a good example of some units having a particular problem, and not others.

The moral of the story being, if your DTVPal has a problem, don't assume all DTVPals or even the same firmware version have the same problem.


In some units the picture shift may be noticeable only in zoom picture mode, while comparing it directly to an analog broadcast of the same source.

Nice rudeness. Well there ARE such things as 16:9 analog CRTs (and which need DTVpals..duh).
It's not trivial to you, but it's still an ANCIENT 1930s technology that the DTVpal is outputting to the screen. That 80-year-old tech was never designed for perfect centering, and therefore I think you're expecting too much. (Like someone expecting surround sound from old 1930s AM is expecting too much.)

Anyway..... mine has a "fill the whole screen" mode... don't recall what setting is called, but that's what you should be using on any 4:3 sets your have. That way, like me, you'd not have any black bars left-right and not notice the shift.

....and you're not expecting too much from this CECB.

Why do you even post here? We already know you think this CECB is biggest piece of crap ever invented. Move on already.

Always read the manual...

To clarify for anyone else who doesn't know... pressing the left or right arrows brings up the browse banner. This allows you to browse though the entire guide without disrupting viewing of the current program.

Where is Ken H now? It seems the EchoStar / DISH Network DTVPal keeps starting arguements.

I don't even have a CECB yet, so I wasn't sure what you folks were talking about, but now that I've seen the images, I get it. The only digital tuners I have right now are in my Panasonic DVD recorders, so I just checked my DMR-EZ28 and, what do you know, every HD channel is left shifted!

Now here's the real kicker: I caught the end of "The View" today. The guest was Michelle Rodriguez and they were showing a clip of "Lost" on the big rear projection screen behind the couch. The clip was 4:3. The screen is 16:9. The clip image was left shifted! I don't know what kind of equipment they're using to implement that screen, but this is obviously a problem that goes way beyond CECB's.

I've been trying to view everything in Normal and the VBI problem is getting annoying. This problem is much like the time issue, the stations are responsible for it. It would be nice if EchoStar / DISH Network added a means / workaround to clip the VBI out.

It would also be nice if we could manually set the clock.

Not trying to be rude...I just know of no 4:3 TV's being sold (or even that ANY are being sold today) that are not analog and I believe it is easy enough to look at the picture and tell this is a 4:3 set. If you had taken the time to look at all the pictures I posted you would see that I too have a 16:9 analog set (the Sony).
You are entitled to your opinion, but none of us have to agree that you are correct and just because you like to view in ZOOM mode doesn't mean the problem is gone it just means you don't see it. BTW, I still notice the shift even in zoom mode--it is relatively easy to see an off center picture because I may be old but I'm not blind.

Thanks Beeper.

Maybe a DTVPal

Also BTW, I think it is rude to call my concerns trivial. I don't think it is trivial to think that I may miss a tornado warning because my DTVPal cut off my county on the weather map the local stations place in the upper left corner of the screen.

(Gee..four in a row..OK...I'll stop)

Is anyone else getting the run around from Dish Network when trying to exchange a DTVPal? I've been trying to exchange my F101 units with newer ones that they say 'might' fix my timer problems, but never seem to get around to shipping them. When I called them last, they said that they will email the returns department. Apparently there's no way to actually talk to someone at the returns department.

Welcome to Dish Network Customer Service. What you're experiencing is the norm, not the exception.

FWIW, Dish Network technical support has confirmed that the latest available software (F103) for the DTVPal/TR-40CRA does not correct all the known problems.

I have been told the same thing and it may be the reason for the delay in exchanges.
They already know this will be costly for them and they do not want to do it more than once...lets hope anyway.

what i can't stand about it is the meter can read above 50 and still not be able to fully pick up a channel. It looks like one of the graphic Media Players shows during music. They have more than just software to upgrade, the hardware blows.

It's a matter of how they calibrated their meter. It's what makes it impossible to really compare two different makers of CECB's boxes on "how sensitive is the meter."

I received my replacement DTVPal yesterday (I talked to Dish and got the "Return Authorization" number on 9/4 and mailed in the old unit on the 4th or 5th). The new unit is F106 and, judging by the "Receiver ID", is not the same one I mailed in.

Bad news first: at first power up, after "Downloading Guide" information I got an error screen. "OAD New Software Mon, September 15"
"The download failed"
"CONTINUE"
I continued and installed "Factory Defaults", which worked fine and I have noticed no ill effects from the error.

Good news: "Downloading Guide" information does not clobber the timers. As far as I can tell so far, the DTVPal's clock does not drift; my old one drifted slow by 11sec/hour, so after a couple of days (if you were so lucky that your timers had not been clobbered) the clock was slow by 10 or 15 minutes. These two problems made the timers useless and both seem to have been fixed, though I'll be more confident about the clock after a few more days. So the early report is that the timers now seem to be functional. Note: the old unit always showed the same time across all channels, but due to drift it was mostly wrong. KTEH, ch54, works again (I assume this is the stations doing, not the new unit; this is only of interest in the San Francisco area).

On my 4:3 27" tv I see VBI noise only on postage-stamped 4:3 content. I notice a left shift on pillered 4:3 content.

The week-ahead "weekly" timer problem has not been fixed (easy workaround is wait a day to set the timer; see 9/4 post for details).

Logistics: I paid shipping of $7 to return the old unit. The full round trip was 10 or 11 days. The new unit came with an unneeded transformer but no remote. For reasons known only to the wizards at Dish, they sent me a UPS return shipping label with the new unit.

A couple weeks ago I sent my DTVPal back for repair. The original unit had firmware F101 and as we all know, this firmware has problems with Timer issues. Events get lost or channels get scrambled. Tonight I received a unit back with firmware version F106. Good sensitivity, very good picture. I added a couple Timer events and will see how they are after downloads of new program info. Any questions?

I will confirm that F106 is indeed the software version many should be expecting back, as thats what I got on mine as well. The timers seem to be working great on mine, as does the time. Theres still VBI info on some channels on some programs. The system maintenance still comes on every time you turn on the box, and it does it on its own at random times as well (green light coming on). It seems that there are times it comes on to do its maintenance mode and then it just stays on until you either turn it off or the 4 hours time has passed. Cant say I like that...but the timers work and thats all i wanted the box for, so as long as it doesnt overheat and catch the house on fire, it's all good, right?

I was trying to figure out if F106 has any new features that F100/101 doesnt, and for some reason the TVGuide/TVGUide+ menu seems to pop out. Was that present/functional on the F100/101 boxes? It's been so long since I used my F100 box I cant remember.

Hold on to that shipping label...if/when bugs are found in the F106 system and you wanna swap this box out for one where the bugs are fixed, thats your way to get a free swap out.

RE: F106

OK THREE users post having F106 and none want to share a Serial # range? If us "regular" folk want to keep watch for it at the local Sears or other B&M... It'd be nice to know a general idea when F103/04/05 ends and when they started running F106...

Share what you are comfortable with...

Thanks,

David

TVGuide/TVGuide+ was in the set up/system set up menu on all units from F100 up.

Did anyone get a remote with F106? If so, is it a 1.5 NDB?

Also, for anyone adventurous, does it still have the Thompson tuner?

Edit: Sounds like some early F106s are old new stock. Tuner question is mute.

The label on the for-display box for my replacement unit has the following lines:


E4ETCT38920F
Receiver Serial Number

ID Number

R1647393565

In the on-screen sysinfo display R16... is called the "Receiver ID" and I take this to be the serial number.

You may want to double check that the "Sys. Info" on your F106 PAL/TR-40 matches the serial on the box. The serial (Receiver ID) you listed is in the F101 range...

They might have given you a "refurb" F101 with updated software, but it's likely they mixed up the boxes or the ID is just a typo.

Thanks,
David

The sysinfo "Receiver ID" is the same as that on the box but with "-66" appended.