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Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter - Page 149

post #4441 of 6751
9/17/08 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkenner View Post

The sysinfo "Receiver ID" is the same as that on the box but with "-66" appended.

Then based on your previous post about "OAD New Software Mon, September 15" they must of updated an F101 (OAD? Over Air Download? In-Shop OTA Download likely?) and sent it to you...

I wonder if/when F106 will be available then on retail models? If there were a "date code" on these units we could probably assume anything made after Sept 15 would come with F106.
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post #4442 of 6751
9/17/08 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgodave View Post

RE: F106

OK THREE users post having F106 and none want to share a Serial # range? If us "regular" folk want to keep watch for it at the local Sears or other B&M... It'd be nice to know a general idea when F103/04/05 ends and when they started running F106...

Share what you are comfortable with...

Thanks,

David

I will share. The F106 firmware unit has S/N E4ETCT38936F. I checked the Timer events after data downloads and they are still there unharmed. I also removed power and waited 30 seconds before powering up and events are still there, weeee. This unit is solid!
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post #4443 of 6751
9/17/08 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeper View Post

TVGuide/TVGuide+ was in the set up/system set up menu on all units from F100 up.

Did anyone get a remote with F106? If so, is it a 1.5 NDB?

Also, for anyone adventurous, does it still have the Thompson tuner?

My F106 guy did ship with a remote and is the 1.5 NDB.
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post #4444 of 6751
9/17/08 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkenner View Post

I received my replacement DTVPal yesterday (I talked to Dish and got the "Return Authorization" number on 9/4 and mailed in the old unit on the 4th or 5th). The new unit is F106 and, judging by the "Receiver ID", is not the same one I mailed in.

Bad news first: at first power up, after "Downloading Guide" information I got an error screen. "OAD New Software Mon, September 15"
"The download failed"
"CONTINUE"
I continued and installed "Factory Defaults", which worked fine and I have noticed no ill effects from the error.

Good news: "Downloading Guide" information does not clobber the timers. As far as I can tell so far, the DTVPal's clock does not drift; my old one drifted slow by 11sec/hour, so after a couple of days (if you were so lucky that your timers had not been clobbered) the clock was slow by 10 or 15 minutes. These two problems made the timers useless and both seem to have been fixed, though I'll be more confident about the clock after a few more days. So the early report is that the timers now seem to be functional. Note: the old unit always showed the same time across all channels, but due to drift it was mostly wrong. KTEH, ch54, works again (I assume this is the stations doing, not the new unit; this is only of interest in the San Francisco area).

On my 4:3 27" tv I see VBI noise only on postage-stamped 4:3 content. I notice a left shift on pillered 4:3 content.

The week-ahead "weekly" timer problem has not been fixed (easy workaround is wait a day to set the timer; see 9/4 post for details).

Logistics: I paid shipping of $7 to return the old unit. The full round trip was 10 or 11 days. The new unit came with an unneeded transformer but no remote. For reasons known only to the wizards at Dish, they sent me a UPS return shipping label with the new unit.

rkenner,
I also received a shipping label. I was originally told that a replacement unit would be sent to me with label to send old unit back. Then I was told I had to send the faulty unit back first, which I did. I called on Sept.15, (last Monday) to find out status and was told they had received my unit and they didn't know when it would be shipped back. I think we need to contact Dish and tell them we already have our unit that works now.
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post #4445 of 6751
9/17/08 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgodave View Post

You may want to double check that the "Sys. Info" on your F106 PAL/TR-40 matches the serial on the box. The serial (Receiver ID) you listed is in the F101 range...

They might have given you a "refurb" F101 with updated software, but it's likely they mixed up the boxes or the ID is just a typo.

Thanks,
David

Mine is in the low serial number range as well. I saw my new serial number R1647399646 and thought..."I think thats lower than the old one?".

For the time being, serial number ranges may not be as good of a tell as to what firmware is there as it was even several weeks ago...so there may no longer be a F100/101 serial number range. That could be what Kevin meant when he said that you wouldnt be able to tell the software version from the box.

From what I understand, they take your old box back and send you one thats been preloaded with the latest software, which is lilely one they got back from someone else some time ago, so that they dont have to wait around for people to load new software on your old box that you sent in.
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post #4446 of 6751
9/17/08 at 9:57am
All of this is great news but.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkenner View Post


On my 4:3 27" tv I see VBI noise only on postage-stamped 4:3 content. I notice a left shift on pillered 4:3 content.

The week-ahead "weekly" timer problem has not been fixed (easy workaround is wait a day to set the timer; see 9/4 post for details).

Why don't they fix these things or at least tell us what is going on..is it the broadcasters?...do they believe they can fix theses issues?...whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pestocat View Post

A couple weeks ago I sent my DTVPal back for repair. The original unit had firmware F101 and as we all know, this firmware has problems with Timer issues. Events get lost or channels get scrambled. Tonight I received a unit back with firmware version F106. Good sensitivity, very good picture. I added a couple Timer events and will see how they are after downloads of new program info. Any questions?

Do you still see the VBI and the left shift?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pestocat View Post

I will share. The F106 firmware unit has S/N E4ETCT38936F. I checked the Timer events after data downloads and they are still there unharmed. I also removed power and waited 30 seconds before powering up and events are still there, weeee. This unit is solid!

Solid for the timers, but we kinda already knew that with F103.
I wonder what was changed to come up with F106 as at first glance it looks about the same as F103. Could it be changes to the TVGOS integration? Anyone with a new F106 box have a TVGOS device to test it on?

Still, it does seem as thought Dish IS serious about trying to fix the bugs.
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post #4447 of 6751
9/17/08 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwiser View Post

From what I understand, they take your old box back and send you one thats been preloaded with the latest software, which is lilely one they got back from someone else some time ago, ....

Anyone have vent holes drilled in the cover from a prior owner?
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post #4448 of 6751
9/17/08 at 10:07am
Hahahaha!
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post #4449 of 6751
9/17/08 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProsPops View Post

...

Solid for the timers, but we kinda already knew that with F103.
I wonder what was changed to come up with F106 as at first glance it looks about the same as F103.

I'm curious, too. Agree that what's been mentioned so far already worked with F103. My only timer issue with F103 has been losing the CBS lock. But, the last few days, I've found the box on, and everybody says they weren't using the TR40.

ETA: and actually, I have a second timer issue. Wasn't the box supposed to seek out CBS and update while in standby? I still have problems when I turn it off from a non-CBS channel. Sometimes it locks onto the non-cbs channel, sometimes it looks like drift.
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post #4450 of 6751
9/17/08 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProsPops View Post

Yes it is an analog 4:3 set (why would I need a Pal if was digital..duh). ...

Your sarcasm not withstanding, he didn't ask you if you had an analog set.
He asked you if that was a 4:3 image.

He also volunteered some info about analog sets.

RTFQ
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post #4451 of 6751
9/17/08 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pestocat View Post

I will share. The F106 firmware unit has S/N E4ETCT38936F. I checked the Timer events after data downloads and they are still there unharmed. I also removed power and waited 30 seconds before powering up and events are still there, weeee. This unit is solid!

The Receiver ID/Serial numbers we've actually been tracking look like this (R1647XXXXXX)

Also as mentioned previously R103 (and R102?) seemed to have fixed the Timer problem...

If you know your R1647 # we'd could track that... It might be an "updated" F101 so the R # might not be all that high...
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post #4452 of 6751
9/17/08 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltiDawg View Post

Your sarcasm not withstanding, he didn't ask you if you had an analog set.
He asked you if that was a 4:3 image.

He also volunteered some info about analog sets.

RTFQ

Honestly, I was not trying to be sarcastic or rude (as I told electrictroy). I was just trying to point out that it was pretty obvious from the picture it is a 4:3 set and that (as far as I know) all 4:3 TV's are analog, in fact I don't even think anyone is still making/selling 4:3 TV's anymore.
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post #4453 of 6751
9/17/08 at 1:14pm
16:9 analog TVs (and 4:3 HDTVs) do exist. So, it was a legitimate question.
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post #4454 of 6751
9/17/08 at 1:15pm


Dynex® - 27" 480i Standard-Definition Digital TV - $249.99 at Best Buy
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post #4455 of 6751
9/17/08 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProsPops View Post

... (as far as I know) all 4:3 TV's are analog, ...

Not correct.
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post #4456 of 6751
9/17/08 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProsPops View Post

I was just trying to point out that it was pretty obvious from the picture it is a 4:3 set..

I don't know if it's the camera angle or what, but that Sony you show in post #4423 sure as heck looks like it's 16:9 to me.
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post #4457 of 6751
9/17/08 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

I don't know if it's the camera angle or what, but that Sony you show in post #4423 sure as heck looks like it's 16:9 to me.

His Sony is 16:9. His RCA is 4:3
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post #4458 of 6751
9/17/08 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbios View Post

16:9 analog TVs (and 4:3 HDTVs) do exist. So, it was a legitimate question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by partsman_ba View Post



Dynex® - 27" 480i Standard-Definition Digital TV - $249.99 at Best Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltiDawg View Post

Not correct.

I stand corrected. I did say "as far as I know" and now you all know just how far that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

I don't know if it's the camera angle or what, but that Sony you show in post #4423 sure as heck looks like it's 16:9 to me.

Yes, it is. That was my only point. That I felt it was obvious from the photo the RCA was 4:3 and the Sony was 16:9.

If I offended anyone, I apologize.
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post #4459 of 6751
9/17/08 at 2:08pm
OK. For some reason, I thought someone said that the Sony was 4:3. Must've gotten confused.
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post #4460 of 6751
9/17/08 at 2:11pm
Now, on with my original question.
Now that some of you have had time to see the left shift I am experiencing, (besides rkenner on his spanking new F106 box) has anyone else noticed it on their Pals or are the four Pals I have had just the only four out there like this.
Someone did mention that it may be a broadcaster issue. Is anyone a professional in the broadcasting business that could shed some light on this issue?
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post #4461 of 6751
9/17/08 at 2:13pm
Mine doesn't do it. Four Pals surely does sound like your TV or the broadcasters.
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post #4462 of 6751
9/17/08 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProsPops View Post

Now that some of you have had time to see the left shift I am experiencing, (besides rkenner on his spanking new F106 box) has anyone else noticed it on their Pals or are the four Pals I have had just the only four out there like this.

I've noticed it on my F101 DTVPal from day 1. As I recall, several people mentioned it within the first month or so after the DTVPal was released, but I think it was overshadowed with all of the complaints about picture quality and timers. It appears to be a problem with the DTVPal since I don't notice the problem on my ZAT-970A or my Vizio HDTV. If it were a broadcast problem, I would expect it to show up on all of these devices.
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post #4463 of 6751
9/17/08 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProsPops View Post

If I offended anyone, I apologize.

No need to apologize - owning a DTVPal means never having to say you're sorry (at least on this forum)
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post #4464 of 6751
9/17/08 at 2:33pm
Thanks. Way back when I first asked for input on this issue this was the only real response I got so I know some other boxes are involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick313 View Post

Looks like your eyes are okay. I hadn't really noticed it until you mentioned it, but yes the left side of the picture appears to be cropped a bit. From my observations, it appears to only do this on SD broadcasts. I don't notice the problem on HD broadcasts.
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post #4465 of 6751
9/17/08 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick313 View Post

I've noticed it on my F101 DTVPal from day 1. As I recall, several people mentioned it within the first month or so after the DTVPal was released, but I think it was overshadowed with all of the complaints about picture quality and timers. It appears to be a problem with the DTVPal since I don't notice the problem on my ZAT-970A or my Vizio HDTV. If it were a broadcast problem, I would expect it to show up on all of these devices.

Ha..there you are...looks like I'm a bit behind in the thread.
Yep, that was my thinking too because I have never seen it on any other digital reciever or converter I have tried either.
And that then leads us back to why Dish would continue to update and install the software, and exchange units if they haven't fixed all the issues?
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post #4466 of 6751
9/17/08 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProsPops View Post

Also BTW, I think it is rude to call my concerns trivial. I don't think it is trivial to think that I may miss a tornado warning because my DTVPal cut off my county on the weather map

First off: As I pointed-out, NTSC has *always* been an imperfect system. 10-20% of the image isn't even visible due to those imperfections (that's called overscan).

Second: Because overscan exists, stations center all important information inside a "safe zone" that avoids the edges. Therefore your map won't get cutoff.

Third: I don't know how else to explain it to you. I'm trying to HELP you understand: For the last 40-50 years, you've been watching sets with variable centering & with the outer edge of the image "hidden" behind the plastic edging.

That's by design. It's not a flaw.
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post #4467 of 6751
9/17/08 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by electrictroy View Post

First off: As I pointed-out, NTSC has *always* been an imperfect system. 10-20% of the image isn't even visible due to those imperfections (that's called overscan).

Second: Because overscan exists, stations center all important information inside a "safe zone" that avoids the edges. Therefore your map won't get cutoff.

Third: I don't know how else to explain it to you. I'm trying to HELP you understand: For the last 40-50 years, you've been watching sets with variable centering & with the outer edge of the image "hidden" behind the plastic edging.

That's by design. It's not a flaw.

And I appreciate your concern in trying to help me understand.
However, I have already seen my weather map get cut off and as others have said, they do not see this behaivour in any other box (or should I say in some other boxes as I do recall someone saying the CM has the issue as well).
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post #4468 of 6751
9/17/08 at 6:39pm
Just curious......so far......what are the real (noticeable) advantages of F106?
(one would assume that they did something to upgrade the software).

Any comparisons between the TR-40CRA (F103)......
and the newer DTVpal (F106)?

Has anyone been shipped a TR-40CRA with F106?

Thanks!
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post #4469 of 6751
9/17/08 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

Any comparisons between the TR-40CRA (F103)......
and the newer DTVpal (F106)?

Just to clarify F103 is available on both TR-40CRA (DTVPAL in disguise) and DTVPAL versions.
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post #4470 of 6751
9/17/08 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

Just curious......so far......what are the real (noticeable) advantages of F106?
(one would assume that they did something to upgrade the software).

Any comparisons between the TR-40CRA (F103)......
and the newer DTVpal (F106)?

Has anyone been shipped a TR-40CRA with F106?

Thanks!

im wondering the same things
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