Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter - Page 151

Was that a copy, delete, post reply, paste, edit re-post?

When my replacement DTVPal with F106 firmware arrived (as reported earlier) on 9/15, I set up a M-F timer which fired successfully on 9/16-17. Yesterday, 9/18 it failed to fire, no green light. When it was several minutes late, I turned it on; the green light lit up, but the box was unresponsive. I unplugged it for a bit after which it came up with the "Downloading Guide" screen followed by tuning to the channel from the unfired timer.

Later, after the DTVPal had been off for a few hours, it turned itself on for no apparent reason and stayed on for an hour or so after which I turned it off.

So, F106 isn't quite right. I've reported all this to tech@echostar.com, for what that's worth.

I called Dish Network about the TR-40 running hot on Wednesday and quoted the email they sent me. For some reason the device wasn't on my account - or at least not accessible by them. So I needed to call back with the device #. I did that today and after a whole lot of hold time they got it on my account. This guy now tells me that the device feeling hot to my touch should not be a fatal problem. He asked whether I had turned it off or let it turn itself off. I told him that I had turned it off. He suggested that I leave it on and see what happens. If I get a message on the screen that it is overheating then they'll need to replace it. Otherwise I shouldn't worry about it.

If I am not using the timers at the moment, is there any real reason to leave the device on? Am I not just wasting electricity? Does leaving it on somehow regulate cooling of the device? Any ideas?

Rammitinski,
This is not about VBI, but with your experience in ATSC tuners, how do the DTV converters compare in sensitivity to the high level ATSC HD tuners. I'm quite impressed with the Zenith, DTVPal, and ZAT-970A in performance, i.e., sensitivity.
Thank you,

was the time on the station correct? do you have the CBS signal for it to synch with in your area?

Never heard that before. That would seem to imply that theres a thermocouple inside there that would tell if it gets too hot...which I dont believe anyone who's ever opened the box up has indicated. Strange.

Just make sure you document your conversation...did you get a CSR number or name?

I am in the San Francisco area and the local CBS station seems to be the time source for DTVPal. My DTVPals have always shown the same time for all stations. For the few days before the missed timer, the DTVPal clock had never been more than 30 seconds different than a correct clock, and was dead on when I got DTVPal back to life after the missed timer and hang.

Not sure anyone has seen an "overheating" DTVPAL message. I suppose someone could "force" a DTVPAL to overheat... (Pre-heat an Oven or something!!) if the message pops up there you go...

While the DTVPAL antenna feed does seem to get "hot" for some of us... Not sure DISH will repair/replace them until the "hot" gets high enough to burn somebody. Now it's just a "frak" moment if you aren't paying attention. Otherwise it's bearable.

Based on my Watt Meter my F103 DTVPAL does use significantly less power in "off" mode vs "on" (Duh). It shouldn't be using "less" power in unattended "on" mode or after it turns itself "off"... That should mean Heat isn't going to change either. Unless there are non-tuner related screens that might use less power and turn "off" the feed (at least part of the time), keeping it cooler.

yeah I dunno...I've had mine for a few days now and havent noticed any problems with the timers missing any of my shows. I havent sat there watching it intently, so I might have missed it misfiring on the exact time, or it may not have misfired at all for me.

I would suggest a "wait and see" approach as to deciding whether F106 is indeed faulty. Once or twice is a misfire, three or more times is a bug. The best thing to do is to see if happens again and document what happened prior to the incident.


Has it come to this? we arent getting paid enough.

So much for me exchanging mine for 106s. Tho' I suppose I should call and set things up anyway, so I don't end up having them tell me I waited too long.

*sigh*

I wonder if the "no signal" problem I've had with only one of mine could be an overheating problem? (The box did seem very hot the first time this happened.)

The box was left on 24/7 so's to avoid data downloads scrambling the timers. Turning on the set, the screen has a message saying there's no signal on the channel it's tuned to. (Or it lost the signal or whatever.) Checking other channels, however, showed NOTHING was coming in. No reception on any channel, same message on them all.

Had to leave the box unplugged for at least an hour before it would finally start getting TV again, then it was fine, receiving on all channels as if nothing had been wrong.

This has happened at least three times, but oddly I haven't seen it happen in a week, depite the box still being left on all the time since the last restart.

Contradictory evidence....

Oh CRUMB!

If the timers were working on the TR40 with firwear F103 then they should be OK on the DTVPAL with F106. Looks like time to return mine for working ones but what else are you having problems with. The timers were the big problem most had and if they are fixed now what are you all complaining about. All the boxes do a picture shift a little which i blame on the tvs more than the boxes.

Shush, Penfold!


I was thinking along those lines as well. I wasnt aware there was any problem with the F106 timers until the above glitch was mentioned. If it doesnt happen again, then it isnt a bug. If it does, the only thing I can think of offhand is with F103 timers working ok, perhaps they introduced code into the programming to try and fix some other issue that ends up conflicting with the code they altered to fix the timers in F103?

At this point, we just dont know.

As far as other major issues people are concerned about, theres the shift to the left, the temperature issue, the incorrect time of day, and the VBI issue. The first one could be a box issue or a TV issue...I see the same with my CM-7000 and am convinced it's the CM-7000, but others arent. The second issue has been acknowledged by Dish and at this point they seem to be standing by the notion that the box is (UL?) compliant and not a safety hazard.. The last two issues are due to the broadcasters, both in my own personal opinion, and from Dish.

I agree, and I fully understand how the VBI interval included unseen lines that move the electron beam from the bottom to the top of the screen. I just chose to simplify my statement and left that out. Many of us remember when the retrace scan lines were visible on a mal-adjusted or mal-functioning set.

I also agree with Ram.. about the intended use of these boxes to display digitally transmitted TV on a 4x3 analog TV. We should be happy that these latest-generation digital tuners are far more capable of dealing with multipath and other reception problems than our 2000-vintage tuners were.

Once I get a working-timer version of the DTVPal to replace my F101 unit, I will be happy that I have received plenty of functionality and value for my small investment.

For higher video quality, I use my HD tuners.

wow...that DN csr is quite a liar, it seems....or he has a very overactive imagination...i would bet big bucks theres no such message possible!

fyi> my TR40 (with F103) runs warm....its never been hot....even the metal tuner rf connectors are only warm, at most....some here have reported that the rf connectors are the warmest part of the box....

i got my TR40 (with F103) about 10 days ago....so not much experience yet....but so far i have noticed that my TR40 (with F103) seems to get its displayed clock time from each channel as u tune to it...and for some strange reason, my local NBC station is about a minute and a half behind the other major network channels here.....so i can flip back n forth between NBC and another channel and the time goes 'backwards' by about a minute (sometimes 2 minutes) when i go to NBC....and even more interestingly, the on-screen 'time bug' on that NBC channel does not agree with the 'NBC' TR40 displayed time....its off by the same minute or 2....i know that makes no sense but thats what seems to happen....

Dish Network receivers actually do give you a warning if they begin to overheat, so that's why the CSR said that. But I also doubt the DTVPal does this. I haven't seen a thermistor anywhere on the board, unless it's integrated into a chip...

I don't think any of the standalone tuners out there compare to the best of these new boxes. Maybe that new TiVo coming out will have a 6th gen. chip and be comparable.

I know some people have said the Samsung DTB-260F worked just as good or better in their case, but that hasn't been my experience.

Some of you may not believe it, but I was just flipping through my analog channels and happened to stop on a Fox affiliate showing some movie with Patrick Swayze, and at the top of my screen was the VBI information...on analog! After about a minute the screen went black and it came back with no VBI...one of the night shift engineers must have woken up...but still this is an excellent example of how the broadcaster is responsible for that VBI showing up on the screen.

Not that unbelievable. VBI is analog data...

My CM7000 does a little shift but it's not a big deal as well the VBI line just switch to full screen and it's gone. Never had the heat problem mostly i don't keep my units on very long but still after 3 hours no big deal. The timers were the big issue and the box dyeing on it's one but if all that is fixed them I'm ready to replace mine.

It seems there's a problem with setting up a timer event for the same day of the week, one week down the road. If you want a recording at 7pm next Sunday, and you enter it at 8pm this Sunday, the time can end up as 4:30pm.

It's also been reported to skip timer events for some unknown reason.

Still not quite right, I guess.

Which version are you speaking of...103 or 106?

I spoke with Damion [PLC] in Dish Network technical support yesterday (9/19) who stated that F106 still does not solve all the timer problems. He claimed the engineers still have the VBI, TVGOS, and unresponsiveness after power-on issues listed as unresolved also. He advised me to continue holding off for an exchange and to check back periodically for further updates.

thanks for the update.
i wonder if people who have bought the tr40cra will be able to get it replaced with the newest version as well as dtvpal owners. If that is so, I would be willing to try out a tr40cra.

I was wondering if somone who has the TR-40CRA can check if it also has this one other minor issue that exists on my DTV Pal (I have version F103); when you press the Info button to get up the information about the show the first time it is transparent and the second time you press it, it becomes solid like it should, but if you press it one time as transparent and hit cancel or select to say done the next time it comes up solid. The way it is suppose to work is only come up solid when you press Info a second time right after you press it the first time, otherwise it should always come up transparent the next time you press it. It should work just like my Dish Network Satellite Receiver remote does. This is a minor issue, but it would be nice if they could fix this as well. I do like the fact that the remote functions the same way as my satellite remote, since I changed my satellite remote to control the DTV Pal as the AUX device (I just had to make sure that my satellite receiver was not set up with address 01). This is a problem with the box and not the remote since both my satellite remote and the one that came with the DTV Pal do the same thing when using the DTV Pal.

Same result with the TR-40CRA (F103)......it seems to interrupt the cycle when you push "cancel" (vs. pushing "info" a second time)......
I wish that this was the only issue (if you could even call it that) with these boxes ......
I'd be a very happy camper!

The 106, I'm afraid. (According to rkenner.)

The first two don't bother me, but what do you mean by "unresponsiveness after power-on"?

The thing I found on one of mine? It claiming it couldn't get a signal on ANY channel (leading to me having to unplug it for a hour or more before it'd work again)?

I was given a TR-40CRA (F103) as a gift approx. two weeks ago.
This gave me an opportunity to test out this (supposedly) newer software version. I was pessimistic......due to all of the "bad press" it's received (here)!
This was my first ever experience with a "Dish" CECB.
I was adamantly opposed to buying one, since I preferred to boycott Dish Network......due to their shady business practices (with the DTVpal) and awful support!

So far I've left the unit turned on most of the time (I wanted to see just how warm it became and how well it would work under constant use). This is how I'd prefer to use it, since I have a DVD recorder with an IR blaster which can (and will) control channel changes (for recording).
For the record, it gets quite warm but not hot......similar to my CM-7000. Considering that there's no ventilation, that's not too bad. Keep in mind that ambient room temperature is always a major factor with this type of equipment. People who complain of "hot" boxes may very well be exposing them to higher ambient temperatures. Therefore, there's no real standard for this, since even 3-4 degees can make a considerable difference in the cabinet temperature.
However, with the exception of the Zenith/Insignia boxes, I feel that they all run too warm.

Bear in mind that I've tested many different CECB's over the past few months.
I hate to admit it but the Dish box has three nice advantages (for me).

Firstly, I find it to be more sensitive than most boxes and it has greater compatibilty with weaker and/or reflected signals. It's basically on par with my CM-7000 (my reference standard) and as good (or better) than my
DTT-901 (in this area).
Picture quality goes from very good to mediocre (depending upon the channel.....for some odd reason). The CM is more consistent and better overall than all of the boxes I've tested (in this area). It produces a more dynamic picture with more detail (in general). Oddly enough though, there are times when the Dish box seems to produce a more detailed picture than the CM (but never as dynamic).

Secondly, the EPG is clearly superior to all the others......when it works!
It's designed more like a satellite/cable system EPG (obviously) and unlike other boxes, that have either now/next configurations or (what I consider to be) a non-standard version of an EPG......or have ridiculously small displays (such as the CM......what were they smoking?!)......it's a far better design.
Unfortunately, some of the channels rarely have any program data and others have it to a very limited degree (just several hours). Also, I'm finding that often a channel will have no info. and then suddenly (as you're moving forward on the guide).....it pops up! Sometimes there's actual program detail ......and sometimes not!......
It's so inconsistent and frustrating!
Also.....I find that if I leave the box on, the clock will consistently lose approx. 2-3 minutes per day!
Yet, if I turn it off for a short period of time......it catches up to the correct time!

I haven't done much with the timers. However, I find that by setting a daily timer (for mid afternoon) and turning off the box late in the evening, it gives the box the opportunity to catch up to the current time. The fact that the timer turns the box back on and leaves it on is a nice advantage for this purpose.
What bugs me is that, even with the software updates, they didn't resolve this slow clock issue. I'm in NYC and I have to assume that my local (major) affiliate is providing an accurate time stamp. Besides, why should these boxes have to depend on local broadcasters to keep the time accurate!
Why can't they simply have an independent internal clock system?!

Thirdly, I prefer the "Dish" remote control over all other CECB remotes.
It's a good size, feels confortable to hold and has a better overall button layout than the others I've tested. You pretty much can take your eyes off of it after using it just several times. The buttons require minimal pressure (possibly too minimal) are are large enough (especially for a relatively small remote control). It's better ergonomically and more "user friendly" than most.

I would appreciate your thoughts as to the innacurate clock and EPG inconsistancies......
am I doing something wrong?
Has F106 resolved any of these issues?

Thanks for your input!......and sorry for any redundant questions!.....I haven't been following the "Dish" CECB threads that closely......as I never expected to own one (I guess that I'm now another "victim")!