Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter - Page 152

F106 fixes neither the clock nor EPG issues you speak of. The time and EPG issues, as well as the VBI is all on the broadcasters from what I can tell. While they may try to address them in future software updates, the latest version doesnt.

The TR-40's should have the exact same 90 day warranty as the DVPal, so those of you that bought it have at least 90 days, if not longer (depending on whether you call Dish and get an official ok to wait longer like other users here have) to exchange it for higher firmware on the basis of issues you might have.

As I said, I'm not having any of the timer issues with F106 that some have reported, which is good in a way. I currently have three timers set on my Pal, one M-F one and two (soon to be three)weekly ones. Hopefully there arent too many more interesting shows on TV, as I need one free slot for last minute recording, and there are only 5 timers. Guess thats a + for the Zat 970A with 8.

Frequently when the DTVPal is turned on, the green light comes on, but the TV screen is blank (no picture, no 'Downloading Guide', nothing). You can't do anything from the remote control at that point. Even unplugging the unit from the wall doesn't help. You have you leave it powered on in this catatonic state until something times out. I've seen it take more than 15 minutes to come back to life. There have been several similar reports in this forum.

Dear Mr.

Thank you for your email. We understand these situations can be frustrating and apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. We are currently using F103 firmware. As with any new technology there are problems that can occur and are not recognized until the equipment is out in the field and the issues are reported. We appreciate your patience while we work towards a resolution.

Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have further questions you can respond to this e-mail or access our online technical support at the following link: http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departme...al/index.shtml

A Technical Service Representative is available via live chat 24 hours a day, 7 days per week regarding your concerns. Please click the following link to use this option. http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departme...formrf23.shtml

Thank you,
Michelle S.

DISH Network Technical E-care

From:
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:08 PM
To: Tech
Subject: RE: dtvpal malfunctions
Hello
I read your DTVPALs have firmware F106 now so does this clear up all the problems with the timers and other issues. Is it time for me to return my DTVPALs for working ones with the F106 Software? I don't want to go through all the trouble of returning them now just to get boxes with the same problems.

Please wait while we find a representative to assist you...
You have been connected to (05-03) James F.
(05-03) James F: Thank you for choosing Dish Network the leader in DVR and HD. I will be happy to assist you today. Please give me 2-3 minutes to access your account and review the information you have already provided.
(05-03) James F: Thank you. Please give me 2-3 minutes to research this.
(05-03) James F: Can you please explain what you mean by broken timers?
me: all dtvpals with software versions f101/102 timers on the boxes don't work right. they reset themselves or go off with out firing this is a known issue with the dtvpals we been waiting for dish to fix this problem with new software updates
(05-03) James F: If the problem is indeed with the software version, replacing the devices won't fix the problem as they'll have the same software. I will submit a technical problem report to our engineering department and they should have a new software version by Tuesday night.
(05-03) James F: I apologize for any inconvenience.
me: i read they are now on f106 the software on the dtvpals isn't upgradable or patchable we would need to return the boxes
(05-03) James F: Please give me 2-3 minutes to research this.
(05-03) James F: It appears you are correct and we would have to send you replacements. You said you have two DTVPals, right?
me: yes
(05-03) James F: Your account is listing only one; did you receive the second one recently?
me: has the timer issue been fixed i bought one from another retialer
(05-03) James F: Oh, okay.
(05-03) James F: We can replace the one on your account for you now, but you'd have to go to the retailer to replace the other one.
me: it was mailorder and that can't be done
(05-03) James F: Have you attempted to contact the retailer about this issue?
me: it's your warrenty not theirs, explain why you can't they just sell them
(05-03) James F: If the device isn't active on your account, there's no way for me to set up the replacement order, but we should be able to activate it onto your account for you.
me: fine
(05-03) James F: Can you please go to each TV and press the menu button on the remote followed by 3 (Setup), 2 (System Setup), then 4 (System Info) and tell me what is listed for Receiver ID?
me: give me a few minutes
(05-03) James F: Thank you. Please give me a few moments to activate this for you.
(05-03) James F: Can I please have you verify your shipping address?
(05-03) James F: Okay, thank you
(05-03) James F: You may choose to ship the equipment to us at your cost. Upon receipt of your equipment you will be shipped a replacement. Your original equipment will not be available for return. If the equipment is covered under warranty (and it should be): replacement will be shipped to you at no additional cost (additional charges may apply outside the continental US). If equipment is not covered under warranty and can be repaired your billing account or credit card will be charged the standard repair fee for the replacement. If damage to the defective equipment is found, which DISH Network determines voids the warranty, or makes the equipment unrepairable, you will be charged the market price of the replacement. Include proof of purchase inside return box. Write the RA number on the box and send equipment to:

DISH NETWORK SERVICE
90 INVERNESS CIRCLE EAST
ENGLEWOOD, CO 80112.

(05-03) James F: I'm glad we were able to take care of that for you. Thank you for being a DISH Network customer, have a great day.

i don't know about everyone else but the timer issues are the only ones i ever had with the box. picture is fine and the guide may not have 7 days of programing like promised but I'm guessing that is no one is sending out 7 days worth and will not be until the switch over or few months into it. If the timers aren't fixed then what is the sense of returning the boxes, i don't like the idea that dish can charge my credit card if they decide to just because they are dragging their feet repairing the boxes software and the warranty runs out. This could have been taken care of if they just would have made the software flash able over the net like Logitech remotes. How much would it have cost to add this feature to the boxes, 2 cents.

i think my PBS affiliate is sending out that much data. i don't use the feature currently though it was interesting to see future listings on this device.

I have seen at least 6 days on one station, but the guide appears to be memory limited, and won't fill up. It has even dropped info a few days out that I had seen in the guide earlier, so I often get little more than now/next -- when at the same time, I can see all 12 hours on my CM7000. If I want to know what's on tonight, I'm much more likely to find it on the CM. (TR40 F103)

I find that a bit hard to believe. Of coarse I have seen where the DTVPAL doesn't list info. for various channels until you tune to them... But I've usually not had problems seeing what is on that night on the DTVPAL if I want to find it.

It usually populates for the day very quickly after tuning in, if it hasn't already populated.

Exactly. For all the raving about the Pal/TR-40's guide by "certain people" (you know who you are), I find that my CM's guide nearly always has info for what's on, where the Pal's guide info is extremely spotty.

So much for the Pal's "vastly superior" guide.

But I'm not gonna argue with anyone about it, because they apparently prefer it's "fancyness" or something. Being modeled exactly like the satellite guides (except that there's no PIP) is what impresses them the most. Many of them haven't even compared the guide to other boxes', so they're not even aware.

Like I said, it's entirely true - at least in my market, and apparently in TalkingRat's, too.

On advantage of the DTVpal's guide is you can see ALL the channels, whereas the CM7000 limits you to just one channel, so the DTVpal actually does show more information.
When you switch to the analog-version of the broadcast, do you see the whole map?

Yes.

So, when you are viewing the guide, doesn't TR40 automatically update the guide as you scroll up/down through the channels? Also, is it not downloading the full guide when you turn it on? I'm comparing it to my Samsung DTB-H260F, which when it gets to a channel which the unit has not downloaded guide info, will go quiet for a few seconds while it downloads the guide info. I'm assuming that in the background it's tuning to the channels it needs guide info from while I wait.

I believe the CM downloads guide data in real time, that's why it always has info. The downside is you have to keep changing channels to see data for other stations.

The Pal, on the other hand, has to cache as much data as it can at boot up in order to display info for several channels at once. The downisde, as you've seen, is sometimes data can't be saved. My Humax HD tuner does this too, so I'm used to it. And if you just switch to the channel with the empty listings, it should download the data. Not the end of the world.

I still prefer the Pals guide because a grid is just a much more efficient way of displaying listings. I find the list style EPGs of other CECBs very irritating because I can't look at listings for several channels at a glance.

Doesnt the Zenith/Insignia let you see several channels at once for whats on now? It's been a few days since I used mine so I cant remember.

I have spent several hours on the phone with customer service and technical support personal on numerous occasions the past couple of weeks with no help in warranty exchanging mr DTVPal that was not bought directly from Dish Network. I also tried a chat session and e-mail support as well with out any resolution. Today I tried the chat session again. I stated I have F100 wiyh timer issues. Then explained that I don't have an account. The chat representative stated that he was not authorized to set up replacements, and I would need to be transferred to the Dr.Dish Department. I said okay and he transferred me. After some time explaining my timer issue he proceeded to set up an account for me (what I have been trying to do for weeks now). He then set me up an account, then asked for my e-mail address. I was then told to check my e-mail because he sent me a pre-paid label (now I am very happy with this chat session). He provided me an RA# and my new account number.

It will be interesting to see what firmware I will get back.

Also, I got lucky because I purchased this unit on June 25th which means I only have about 2 days left on my warranty.

So you may want to try a chat session and ask to be transferred to the Dr.Dish Department.

Good Luck Everyone!

Yes, using the Guide button, you can scroll through all the channels using the > button.

So much for victims...umm...customers...who don't have a printer connected to their e-mail device.

Some times we can't win. I have the same problem since I use a Verizon Palm with an unlimited data plan.

[quote=Whidbey;14709249]So, when you are viewing the guide, doesn't TR40 automatically update the guide as you scroll up/down through the channels? Also, is it not downloading the full guide when you turn it on? I'm comparing it to my Samsung DTB-H260F, which when it gets to a channel which the unit has not downloaded guide info, will go quiet for a few seconds while it downloads the guide info. I'm assuming that in the background it's tuning to the channels it needs guide info from while I wait.[/QUOTE

No, it updates when you turn it back on. Scrolling doesn't add anything. From what a CSR said a few pages back, while it's in standby, it deletes old guide info, and that makes space for more guide info when you turn the unit on again.

My first channel on the list has lots of guide info, maybe it uses up the available memory. I also have a couple channels that load each hour's time slot with the same nondescript thing, like "worship."

Some channels seem to be losing guide info they've already downloaded. If my heavy PSIP channel fills up the available memory, a channel that lost its guide may not have room to fill up again.

It is not always that way, but it happens often enough that if it's noon and I want to know what's on at 10 pm, I'll use the CM because it's hassle free. All my stations have typically been good at providing at least 12 hours out, and because I have the CM I know it's not their fault, the PSIP info is there.

This problem seemed to occur after I started getting the green light in standby. I suspect that's when it deletes old guide info. The very first time you turn it on, just about every station fills up with 24 hours worth. Over time, it's supposed to fill up the other days. But once my "good" station filled up 6+ days, and the second in line got close to that, I started getting "no info available" messages on other channels -- so it's my hunch my 6 day channel fills up first, and there's nothing left for anyone else.

I haven't followed this thread in detail lately, but both of the features you noted above, if that's how the guide really works, are really dumb.

The first shouldn't happen, because it ought to be designed simply so that fresh data OVERWRITES existing data...deleting data in advance is a good way just to screw yourself...

As for the filling up memory with six days of data on just a couple of channels, it's hard to believe they would design a unit that way when it's supposed to have up to a week's data (as advertised) on multiple channels...

Before I got my TR40, it seemed that the people reporting their guide filled up just fine had only a few substations, and those who had problems had 20+ substations. Many have commented that they don't get anywhere near 7 days, so their stations are not putting any strain on memory.

If anyone successfully gets multiple day guide info for all or most of their stations, without glitches like disappearing guide info, I'd love to get an idea of how much guide info the box can hold -- how many subchannels they get and how many days of guide info. That might tell us if there's a memory limitation.

I actually agree with you - in theory, anyway - but my CM does seem to download more complete channel info in this market, like I said, even when I switch to the channel to get it to download - don't ask me why. The Pal will occasionally say "No Info" (or whatever - I haven't had it hooked up in weeks, so I don't recall what it says) more often than the CM. (My Samsung DTB-H260F is the same as your Humax and the Pal, so I'm already aware of how the Pal's guide data downloading works).

I've also had inconsistency with the amount of PSIP guide data shown among some of my other tuners, so the Pal's not the only one I've had do this.

I also was just trying to point out that the Pal's guide is not necessarily the greatest thing since sliced bread to everyone, like at least one particulary egocentric person around here claims it ought to be.

i'm trying the timers on the tr40 and one fired like it should. one problem i'm finding is how to pick the channel from the create timer menu. how do you pick the channel, the arrow keys just move the channel up and down but doesn't show you the channel picked. i see the empty boxes next to the channel and that icon that shows which channel is picked but it doesn't move with the channels. it's more of a guessing game which channel is picked you only find when you press the select remote key and the icon popsup in the box. i'm i doing it wrong

How dare these people indicate happiness with the guide when they haven't even seen the guide that you like?

I played with it a bit this morning, and I was able to get more to fill in for missing channels, but at the expense of info from other channels. I tuned to the channel, and it did not fill in immediately, it took about 15 minutes before it showed up. When I got info for that channel, my 6 day channel went completely empty.

If I knew precisely how this thing worked, I could probably manipulate circumstances to find what I needed, but the now-you-see-it, now-you-don't stuff is really annoying. I played with it for another half hour, and deleted 4 channels to see if I that helps long term. I got the 6 day channel info on and off again, and the program detail also comes and goes. When I got the 6 day info, parts of the programming for a few other stations went blank. I can see what's on prime time for about half of the networks I watch. That's farther out that CM sees, but come noon, CM will show it all, and the TR40 will be adding and dropping info every time I look at the guide. Unless, dropping those 4 stations helps its memory.

Yesterday, after it being plugged in and on for several hours (~ 4) of football, during 60 Minutes the screen froze. The audio continued for less than a minute and then it seemed to just reboot. It turned itself off (I guess) the program guide started to download and then it continued on. I guess it is time to call customer service again.

Meanwhile, if you are not using any timers is there any reason to have the device even plugged in, let alone turned on when you are not using it?

Thanks.

Nope. Some CECBs even have a "hard" ON/OFF Switch so you can power down the CECB completely. If you've got a power strip that might be an easy way to kill the CECB without having to pull the plug all the time.

Only one person keeps jabbing about there not being a PIP in the DTVPal guide, (like the DISH satellite receiver.)

The satellite receiver doesn't really have PIP in the guide either. It does give the user the option of seeing a full guide or a "partial guide with video."
(One picture and the audio from the last channel tuned.) I think that would technically be referred to as PIG (picture in guide).
So the next time you chat with DISH reps, demand that they put a PIG in the Pal.

When a select guide, I prefer not to see a PIG.
I want to see the guide, the whole guide, and nothing but the guide. I have my satellite receiver set to see the full guide.

The option to see a PIG in the DTVPal guide may be desired by some.
Until it is included, if a user wants to continue to see the last channel tuned and browse the guide, they should simply learn to use the browse feature.

Hehe, I'm not that one person, but that failing has bothered me also. I would like to have the option of "partial guide with video", rather than the full guide.

I think the DTVpal doesn't have this satellite receiver feature because it has to tune in each channel to keep the guide populated. Obviously it can't show you the current channel while doing that. Only trouble is, my DTVpal (F100) does not appear to be working that way. I'll have to think of a good test to know for sure. Maybe it would be to use the browse feature (with current channel video displayed) to locate a channel without data. Presumably when on and displaying another channel, the channel with missing data will never get populated. Then if I use the full-screen guide to view the same station, the data should be displayed.