Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter - Page 194

(QUOTE)
For anyone interested, I HAD been getting TVGOS form the VBI signal provided by PBS (analog Ch.21) until last week. No more VBI TVGOS as of last week. CBS affiliates are able to offer the TVGOS data stream for viewers who have legacy TV's, DVRs, etc. Here's what WISC has to say:

Quote:
[Me], CBS affiliates were “offered” this service. WISC TV has declined the service which wanted to use bits within our DTV data stream without compensation. The last word we got from the TVGOS company was that they were trying to find another DTV station in the market to carry the service.
Thanks for writing.

Leonard Charles

WISC TV
(END QUOTE)

Alas, you have discovered the brutal truth of our situation as TV viewers. The TV broadcasters view us not as customers, but as their product to sell to advertisers. In the case of cable/satellite, we actually pay them to sell our eyeballs to advertisers for their own profit.

Welcome to the new world order...

You mean you just realised this ..... and you thought all along TV is free .. and it is funny, these cable/satellite operators want to double dip, get money from the viewers to WATCH their ADS

Yes, it's just great. So do I take my DTVPal PLUS back to Sears. or wait and see if one of the two local CBS affiliates will eventually decide to actually provide it?

I buy an HDTV a couple of years ago. DTV is supposed to provide more capabilities and features, and now I can't get TVGOS for my TVGOS enabled Mitsubishi because the stations are balking. I would think it's no big deal and likely requires only some sort of software enabling on the stations end. It can't be a bandwidth problem, I wouldn't think. How much bandwidth can a low speed data stream use? And from my understanding, the data stream would only be active once or so a day to provide TVGOS update info.

I had been with DTV for almost 7 years since 1995, and then Dish till recently. I'm not paying $60 to $70 a month for more and more advertising. I'm in the middle of two local viewing areas so have an abundance of OTA TV. It was just nice to actually use my IEEE1394 HDD DVR with my Mitsubishi while it lasted! Oh well, at least I can watch RTN and see how TV "used" to be!

Well, my Panny E85's analog TVGOS listings haven't given me any new data since the 17th, so I'm running out of days before the wall of "no listings" gets me (this is in a suburb of Minneapolis).

I just bought a Pal+ at Sears. They're $60 before tax/coupon (so better than the online price of $70). The wankers wouldn't take my $5 off $50 coupon, however... stupid "not valid on electronics" clause in the fine print.

I'll play with it more later trying to get TVGOS data into my E85 (have to record tonight's shows before I screw things up... priorities).

A couple of quick questions:
1) Was there a way to skip forward in the normal 'pal PSIP guide more than "one click" at a time with the right arrow? I read the 'pal DVR has the skip button for 24 hours at a time, but I can't remember if the normal 'pal has such a feature... type a number or something?
2) Is there a way to sort the channel guide in ascending instead of descending order? I want my channels to go 2, 4, 5, 9, ...; not 9, 5, 4, 2 from top to bottom.

Thanks in advance.

1) - enter number of hours, then left or right arrow, depending
2) - one of my pet peeves with the DTVPAL's also. have not found any way to sort them

I'm not contradicting anything he said. I'm just stating what's in the knowledgbase. If he has inside info, then obviously Macrovision will make it work somehow. I'm only going off public knowledge, no inside info.

grr...my pal shut off in the middle of Heroes tonight. It was the stupid inactivity timer in combination with a random turn on of the box. Normally 4 hours inactivity would be no problem as I dont have any recordings more than an hour apart, but tonight I guess the pal did one of its random "turn on to do maintenance" things and then like it sometimes does, went straight into regualr mode instead of shutting itself back off. This problem was brought up to Dish a long time ago and it got shrugged off. This not turning off stuff also wouldnt be a big problem if they had actually set the length of the timed event to control when it's ok for the Pal to shut off or not. How hard is it to program "if a timed event is still going, dont shut off until afterwards".

Last I heard, which was just a few days ago, they weren't.

I've completely abandoned my DTVPal for VCR timer use and use it solely for watching live TV. The guide is great, but that's the only realiable feature on it. I now have two Zinwells (970A and 950A) for VCR timers and they are much, much more reliable (but still not perfect). This setup also avoids remote control conflict. I'm going to get another DTVPal for the other TV once the prices fall.

I have one ( + version) just for the long GUIDE, it has the week long capacity but have not seen more than three days.

Hooked to SONY HDTV, PQ is great for the little box that it is. I however mostly watch TV using TV tuner.

You may both be right -- Just speculating, but the Sony may be unique in that there may be a way to do a firmware upgrade that uses the G* ATSC test program code to receive ATSC data regularly.

? I'm not sure what you mean by this...how would we get that firmware upgrade, and - if we DO get a firmware upgrade that permits use of the G*test-leave on overnight method - why wouldn't the same firmware permit normal downloads from the digital station?...

Of course, if the unit reverts in a reset to the base software, use of the DTVPal just long enough to get the upgraded firmware would presumably leave it in a state to access digital TVGOS as its normal mode, and it would continue to work until there was ANOTHER reset, whether caused by something in the TVGOS data itself OR by something messing up in the unit...

My DTVpal is now 20 minutes slow after being plugged in for just four days. Why didn't they make it an option for manual or automatic time set, like other DTV receivers I own? It wouldn't really be a problem if it weren't for the fact that I bought the DTVpal to use its timers. I was thinking about buying the DTVpal DVR if it ever comes back on the market, but this silly problem will probably stop me from buying it.

Two reasons that your DTVPal clock time is slow.

#1 You haven't powered it off. If you leave it powered on for an extended time, the clock time may not update properly.

#2 Your local station's PSIP time is slow. On another DTV receiver check the clock time of your local CBS station.

I have had success in getting my Panasonic DMR-E85H to work with a DTVPal(plus) and get TVGOS listings in the Minneapolis area.

1. Panasonic DMR-E85H
2. TVGOS v7 (07.01.26/07.06.12)
3. various threads discuss the E85

The E85 is an analog device that used to take analog TVGOS signals but now takes digital TVGOS signals via a DTVPal (plus version, from Sears for $60 before tax/coupon).

My findings are pretty much the same as what I've read on various threads in this forum.

Follow the directions regarding G-link (IR Blaster) setup. Yes, channel change is very slow, taking multiple seconds to see the result of a ch+/- command.

It does work through the L3 composite input.

When it asks if it tuned to channel 9, just say yes. If you see the DTVPal's green light blink, you know the correct Scientific Atlanta code is chosen (and the first one it tries is the right one).

Give it several hours to obtain TVGOS data (I think I went 18 hours w/o touching it and found the TVGOS data when I looked).

You can't change the aspect/zoom on the DTVPal while it's in "TV Guide" mode without rebooting into normal mode and changing it, but it does remember what you had it set to before you enter TV Guide mode. So, if you want zoom, set it there before entering TVG mode, of if you want "wide" normal mode, set it there and then enter TVG mode.

I do notice the white counter or whatever jumbled junk is at the top few pixels of a few channels in "wide" mode that is not there in zoom mode.

TVGuide mode seems to leave the DTVPal on all the time.

The Pal's clock will drift, but that doesn't matter if the E85's TVGOS clock is the one triggering events and channel changes.

The recorded programs will be auto-labeled as they used to be before the digital transition. The other TVGOS features like "one click" recording, sort, record from an on-screen ad, etc., work as before. The little "repeat" logo still works, which is nice.

You need to figure out the channel numbers (e.g., 2.1 is 121, 2.2 is 122, ..., 45.1 is 551). The "code" is (virtual_channel * 10) + 100. You can go to the channel setup list and get them. If you know the "real" or "physical" channel from tvfool or some other source, you can type that directly (e.g., 4.1 is 32) but you won't get to control which sub channel you get. Before I waited my 18 hours I typed 32 to get channel 4.1 (CBS) to show up. I don't know if that mattered. It auto-tunes to CBS to get the data and I've seen it change back from CBS to whatever I had before when I first turn on the E85.

Regional note:
In Minneapolis, channel 17.1, etc., recently became channel 2.3, etc., but the TVGOS doesn't know this and is confused by the whole set of public TV stations. You get guide info for 2.1 (which it thinks is the old 2.2 HD channel), but the other channels are "no listings" or "SIGNAL OFF."

Also, channel 23.1/2 ("the CW"), does not show up in the guide, but you can access them directly by using channel 331 (HD), or 332 (SD copy).

Overall, I'm quite please that this works. Sure, it's a bit of a jury-rigged setup, but it works well enough. I hope they fix the recent PBS change in the listings, and I'd like to see channel 23 added to the listings as it was in the analog version.

How many stations are you getting TVGOS listings for? I'm still only getting 6 in Houston: NBC, PBS, CBS, ABC, FOX and myNetworkTV.

2.1-4 (broken guide, shows in guide but no listings/SIGNAL OFF PBS)
4.1 (working CBS)
5.1 (working ABC)
9.1 (working FOX)
11.1 (working NBC)
23.1 (completely missing in guide, CW)
29.1 (working "my Network")
45.1 (working local channel owned by same company as 5.1, the ABC affiliate)

There were a couple of extra CBS channels from distant cities in the guide that I removed because I don't actually get their signal.

There's also an "ION" channel from a different city, channel 41.1, that does not show up in the guide but its reception is not very good anyway.

This is great news. Finally confirmation that DTV pass will translate digital TVGOS to anolog.

Does any one know if DC CBS (9.1) transmits thre guide OTA ? Last I checked from Macrovision site, it said no one is picking up TVGOS in DC.

Only if you have the proper conversion box, like the Pal. Not any old CECB will do.

Yes, TVGOS data is being transmitted now via CBS Channel 9-1 in the Washington, DC area.

I am receiving the TVGOS data over the air from channel 9-1 via a DTVPAL Plus purchased locally from Sears, operating in the TVGOS mode unique to the DTVPal Plus. Anything with an ATSC tuner and an original TVGOS Version of 8.01.65 should be able to get it without the DTVPal Plus converter box.

I understand that TVGOS data is being transmitted also by digital CBS channel 13-1 in Baltimore...

Great news, can you tell what channel the guide is coming from? I would assume 4.1 or physical channel 32 but can you tell? I currently get analog TVGOS from analog CBS channel 4 and get the CW listed and I also get digital TVGOS on my Sony TV for 23.1 so I'm not sure whats up with the pal
As you noted the 2's are messed up in TVGOS(digital and analog) and also in Tivo. Hopefully it will be fixed shortly.
Aren't the 41's showing up? I currently get them just fine in both analog and digital TVGOS so I'm not sure what's up with that either.
You're the second post I've seen of correctly working digital to analog TVGOS with the Pal so it seems like if you've got access to a digital TVGOS signal and the Pal+ it should work.

I finally got the replacement today. Just the box and power supply. No remote control. No manual. No cable.

As anyone who's tried one of these units knows, there are no buttons so it's totally worthless without a remote control. Great.

The customer service phone number has disappeared off of the DTVPal site. The phone number on the UPS label was out of service. I finally found the phone number here on the AVS Forums.

18 minutes on the phone with Customer Service. I don't understand why it was so complicated to send out the missing stuff. Eventually they agreed to send me a remote control. No manual. No cable. I dunno if there'll be batteries for the remote. We'll see when it gets here in a week or so.

Oh, they did send me a shipping label for the return. Except they wouldn't send it out until after my returned unit had arrived there, so what good does that do me?

I think that you can guess what I think about Echostar customer service.

sounds like it's just the same as Dish...

I'm pretty sure it's coming from CBS (4.1), but is there a different way to check? When I look in the diagnostic screen it says "Host Chan 0x0" and I don't remember if that used to be different when analog worked (that stopped on 2/17, and I thought it was from PBS). If your analog is still working, I wonder if I just had to rerun setup or something to switch from PBS to CBS guide signals instead of buying a Pal (which I'd have to do before June 12th, anyway).

I used to get channel 23 when analog worked, but now it's just PBS (not the subs), CBS, ABC, FOX, NBC, MyNetwork, and 45. I don't know what the deal is, either, but the Houston guy, philcstuart, implied the same thing (major networks, no CW). I think I used to get analog listings for 41, but that channel isn't really solid for me, so I never watch it or pay attention to it.

The following probably only relates to the E85:

One glitch I've found with the Pal/E85 combo is that back to back programs set up using the guide (e.g, "Show 1" that runs from 8-9pm on channel 4.1 followed by "Show 2" 9-10pm on channel 2.1) will misfire the second program and not record it properly. The first show records fine, but the second doesn't. If you look at the machine while the second show is on, you see the recording isn't happening. If you turn on the E85 and then look in at the status, it says "recording" and certain things are locked as if it actually were recording even though the red light isn't on. You have to "stop" it and then redo it before the machine actually records. At least, that's how mine is. It wasn't ever 100% reliable when using the analog guide.

I had previously noticed that a recording from L1 would misfire a following recording from the internal analog tuner, so I guess it just can't handle recording from an input very well and now that L3 is where most of the recording happens, I'll see this input bug more often. This will probably turn out to be annoying if I have to trim a minute off the end of the first show and end up needing a lot of manual timers, but I guess I can live with it if it's a known issue with a relatively easy solution (except for goofy shows that go all the way to the last minute).

Try leaving the E85H on when you have back-to-back recordings scheduled.

Kelson found that this was the secret to getting it to work flawlessly for him, at least when using it with the CM-7000.

How I would check would be to go into your E-85's TVGOS diagnostic screen and it should show your host ID. For me currently it's showing channel 4 (our local analog CBS channel). AFAIK it hasn't been PBS in MSP for quite some time, at least since I got my EH-55 early last year. Note analog TVGOS didn't stop here 2/17, it will still be broadcast until WCCO shuts down it's analog service, now June 12.


I get: 2.1-2.4, 4.1, 5.1, 5.1, 9.1,11.1, 11.2, 23.1, 29.1 41.1-41.4 and 45.1. (note I left out the duplicate SD channels)
I'm getting TVGOS both digital and analog for all except the 2's (until TVGOS updates it's info).

Ramm is correct. Kelson posted if you don't turn your E-85 off Back to Back (BTB) events should work fine with the E-85. Unfortunately the EH-55 doesn't work this way and I cannot successfully do BTB events on different channels unless I manually change the channel myself with the my CM remote or front panel buttons. Luckily I don't do many BTB events on different channels.
Kelson's post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post15080943

Beeper - Could you please PM me also with the same info? Thanks.

How about a Pal plus for same price as DTVPal with no shipping and only tax? The answer is Sears (or Kmart).

This was 0x0 before, but now it's not:

HostID is 0x1006
HostChan is 0x2800008D
VBIChan is 0x280000BF

Yeah, I also "solved" the BTB recording issue by leaving it on, but thanks for the tip.

The CM-7000/E85 link was good. I find that I can use the ch+/- on the E85 remote (since the Guide told the E85 what channels exist, with a few exceptions), and with the 'pal it takes 3-4 seconds to change channels thru the G-link, not 10.

Originally Posted by Beeper
Answered in PM. Online priced, plus shipping, no tax.


Some things have changed since the info I gave last Thanksgiving.

The DTVPal is being phased out and being replaced by the DTVPal Plus at the same retail price.

The DTVPal Plus has recently become available locally, at Sears and Kmart.

If you have to buy online, SolidSignal.com has them for 5 bucks less than retail (plus shipping).

The TR-40 is also available. The price de jur for the TR-40 is $49.99.

Beeper

here's an interesting tidbit for the dtvpal / tr40...
since i have 2 tr40cra's ( F103 ) and a dtvpal+ ( recently purchased F106 ), i thought i'd dive into the oldest tr40 and attempt some possible reverse engineering... let me say up front that i am an electronics type tech with many years of experience, and with a couple of spares available, i'm prepared to risk destruction of 1 of these in the interest of research, and i do not condone or recommend ayone doing this unless they are prepared to render their own tr40 inoperable....

anyway, after cracking the unit open, i noted the existence of a location on the board for a brick jumper labeled 'J9', though there is nothing installed there on the board... i installed a jumper block and engaged the jumper, then powered the unit up... then i removed the jumper...

almost immediately, the screen displayed ' WARNING 061 ' ' ATTEMPTING RECOVERY ' ... with some other dialog as well, advising to leave the unit alone until the screen disappeared...

at the bottom of the display is something indicating that the tuner is apparently scanning and looking for something... the display toggles between ' SCANNING ' and ' LOCKED ' ... now, my OTA signal is lousy, so i suspect that the lousy signal is causing this. nonetheless, i am allowing the unit to sit like this for several hours to see whaqt happens... ( i'm recording the screen process on a DVR so i don't miss anything )

i did a couple of these tests to see if i had fried my unit, but after about 5 minutes worth of waiting, removing the jumpe, removing power and then re-applying power, i noted that the unit booted up normally without any apparent destruction, and operated normally as if i had never touched it...

after some web-searching on this WARNING 061 stuff, i found that this warning also appears with some dish network satellite boxes, and seems to indicate that the box is trying to locate and download a firmware update...

extrapolating this to my tr40 would indicate that this abaility at least might exist in the tr40 as well, although i have no idea if there is even any sort of mechanism in place to download tr40 firmware... but i'm giving it a shot...

the initial hope was to see if there might be some undisclosed configuration that would cause the tr40 tuner section to function with a catv feed, but i doubt that this is possible... BUT, at least this might indicate that the tr40 might be upgradeable to a later rev firmware, nonetheless...

i have not located anything else on the board that is obvious, and will now let the thing sit for a while to see if anything happens... the satellite posts indicate that such process can take anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes, but other posts indicate that it can take much longer... with my lousy OTA signal, it might take longer, or even be unsuccessful... i'm hoping that something on the screen will let me know this...

rg