Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter - Page 204

You're right, there's no real need to get frantic about this TVGOS signal confusion yet. We're in the heart of the transition and many of us are just overanxious to get the CECB advanced features working. I'm going to step back and wait until a least a month after the transition takes place and if the analog data signals aren't put into place, I'll just wait longer. With CBS still transmitting analog and digital signals maybe it just isn't feasible for them to manage everything properly. Let's lay some blame on the people who fought for delaying the transition an extra four months. I'll start to wait patiently and hope for the best.

I'm glad you're enjoying your DTV Pal DVR. It's a feasable OTA solution as long as the construction quality is decent and new firmware addressing bug issues come often.

You can put more info, if you like, in your signature, as I do below

I have been running DTVPal 1.00 in TVGOS mode with a Panny E95H for a couple of months now. Here is a summary of my experience:

1. The converted TVGOS has generally worked well. The listings appear reliably and I generally have full 8 days of them for all the available channels. The listing info is OK, I'd say on average much better than PSIP, but maybe slightly worse than analog TVGOS.

2. The TVGOS channel lineup has not changed any - still missing a few stations altogether and ALL subchannels .2 and up. Resetting TVGOS on the Panny did not help. Despite asking several times in this forum, I have not been able to confirm that ANYBODY is getting any subchannel listings in this configuration in my (or any other) market. It would be great to know if the lineup is better for anyone else.

3. Recording reliability is perfect. It has not missed a recording yet. The Panny used to routinely miss scheduled recordings with the analog TVGOS. Daily or weekly events programmed from the analog TVGOS used to disappear from the schedule. None of that has happened yet with the DTVPal setup. This is a very pleasant surprise!

4. While in TVGOS mode, DTVPal time drifts badly and never corrects itself. So, when tuning using the IR Blaster, the DTVPal info panel shows up briefly and usually with a wrong program listed. This is very annoying, especially when tuning to the channels that do not have TVGOS listings in the Panny. I periodically (twice a week) reboot DTVPal out of the TVGOS mode and back. Doing that fixes the time immediately.

5. A few times I turned on the TV and found DTVPal "locked up". Either no picture at all or an abstract psychedelic image. It did not respond to the remote. Pulling the power plug fixed it.

Overall, it is not as bad as I feared it would be. The improved recording reliability more than makes up for the lousy channel lineup.

If anyone could confirm that they are getting subchannels in the DTVPal generated analog TVGOS lineup, I'd very much appreciate it.

Alex

Good idea. (somehow I overlooked that... )

Unimportant background info:

For 3 weeks I had my DTVPal in normal non-TV Guide mode functioning as a Dish Network DirecTV satellite receiver (talked about

here). I then decided to switch it into TV Guide mode and reconfigure my Panasonic DMR-EH75V to work with it.

I wanted to confirm some channel number behavior I had reported on before. And I realized I could probably train Omniremote on my Palm via the IR Blaster. You just send 1111 when you want to train "1" and place the remote that you want to train in front of the IR Blaster for at least 1 blinking of the DTVPal LED when training button "1". And do a similar thing for the other numbers.
update1(I'm relying on OTA (Over The Air) broadcasts only. I don't have cable or satellite)

Alternate zip code:

On 4/25/2009 the following is the state I found the TV Guide editor in after using the alternate zip code, 00005, for the San Francisco Bay Area:

Code:

kothd    cb 121  badCSon1
ktvud    cb 121 goodCSon1
latv     cb 122 goodCSon2 goodCSon-non-.1-sub1
kiemdt   cb 131  badCSon2
kcra-dt  cb 131  badCSon3
kcraw    cb 132  badCSon4
kbtvdt   cb 141  badCSon5
kron-hd  cb 142 goodCSon3 goodCSon-non-.1-sub2
krnvw    cb 143  badCSon6
kpixd    cb 151 goodCSon4
kvie-dt  cb 161  badCSon7
kvie-dt  cb 162  badCSon8
kvie-dt3 cb 163  badCSon9
kvie-dt4 cb 164  badCSon10
kgo-dt   cb 171 goodCSon5
kgo+     cb 172 goodCSon6 goodCSon-non-.1-sub3
weather  cb 173 goodCSon7
kftshd   cb 181  badCSon11
kuno-dt  cb 181  badCSon12
ksbwd    cb 181  badCSon13
ksbww    cb 182  badCSon14
kfts-dt  cb 182  badCSon15
kqeddt   cb 191 goodCSon8
kqeddt   cb 192 goodCSon-but-duplicate--wrong-number1
kqedw    cb 193 goodCSon9 goodCSon-non-.1-sub4
kxtvhd   cb 201  badCSon16
kxtvw    cb 202  badCSon17
kntvhd   cb 211 goodCSon10
kntv-dt  cb 212 goodCSon11 goodCSon-non-.1-sub5
krxir    cb 212  badCSon18
keetdt   cb 212  badCSon19
kovr-hd  cb 231  badCSon20
kovr-dt2 cb 232  badCSon21
keetw    cb 232  badCSon22
kdtv-dt  cb 241 goodCSon12
kuvs-dt  cb 291  badCSon23
azasf    cb 294 goodCSon-but-wrong-number1
kofyd    cb 301  goodCSon13
krcbdt   cb 321  goodCSon14
krcb-dt2 cb 322  goodCSon15 goodCSon-non-.1-sub6
kqeth    cb 351  badCSon24
kqet2    cb 352  badCSon25
kqet2    cb 352  badCSon26
kqet3    cb 353  badCSon27
kqetw    cb 353  badCSon28
ktsf-dt  cb 361 goodCS-but-off1
krend    cb 371  badCSon29
ion      cb 391 goodCSon-but-wrong-number2
kbvuh    cb 391  badCSon30
qubo     cb 392 goodCSon-but-wrong-number3  goodCS-but-wrong-number--non-.1-sub1
ionl     cb 393 goodCSon-but-wrong-number4  goodCS-but-wrong-number--non-.1-sub2
wrshp    cb 394 goodCSon-but-wrong-number5  goodCS-but-wrong-number--non-.1-sub3
kmax-dt  cb 411  badCSon31
kcbahd   cb 451  badCSon32
kicud    cb 461 goodCSon16
kcns-dt  cb 481 goodCSon17
ktlxh    cb 501  badCSon33
latv     cb 502 goodCS-but-off--duplicate-of-on1
ktnc-dt  cb 521 goodCSon18
kbcwd    cb 541 goodCSon19
kion-dtv cb 561  badCSon34
kiondt2  cb 562  badCSon35
ksts-dt  cb 581 goodCSon20
kftydt   cb 601  badCSon36
ktehd    cb 641 goodCS-but-off2
kteh2    cb 642 goodCSon21 goodCSon-non-.1-sub7
ktehl    cb 643 goodCSon22 goodCSon-non-.1-sub8
v-me     cb 645 goodCSon23 goodCSon-non-.1-sub9
kqcad    cb 681  badCSon37
kcsmdt   cb 701 goodCS-but-off3
kcsmd2   cb 702 goodCSon24 goodCSon-non-.1-sub10
ionhd    cb 751 goodCSon25
qubo     cb 752 goodCSon26 goodCSon-non-.1-sub11
ionl     cb 753 goodCSon27 goodCSon-non-.1-sub12
wrshp    cb 754 goodCSon28 goodCSon-non-.1-sub13
kfsf-dt  cb 761 goodCSon29
ktln-dt  cb 781 goodCSon30

That's

77 channels.

CS = Call Sign

goodCSon: 30
badCSon: 37
goodCSon-non-.1: 13
goodCSon-but-wrong-number: 5
goodCS-but-off: 3
goodCS-but-wrong-number--non-.1-sub: 3
goodCS-but-off--duplicate-of-on: 1
goodCSon-but-duplicate--wrong-number: 1
To me it is a disaster. It is much simpler to just use my regular zip code and manually change the numbers into the alternate numbering scheme myself. And manually add the non-.1 subchannels like I described here.

Regular zip code:

On the evening of 4/26/2009 I switched my setup. The next morning when I was given the choice of which

Cable Box lineup to use I chose "No Match". It then threw me into the channel editor.

There were 23 channels in the channel editor that had been assigned a channel number:
convertible-numbers were easily convertible from 2 to 121, or 10 to 201.
non-convertible-numbers had a number that had to be changed before it could be converted to DTVPal TVG format.
update2(
When the DTVPal is in TV Guide mode it has you access the channel numbers differently.
1. Remove any .0
2. Add .1 to any num without a dot
3. Remove the dot and add 100.
)

update1(

OTA users choosing a particular cable lineup instead of "No Match":

Someone mentioned choosing a particular cable lineup rather than "No Match" worked better for them. For me choosing:

"Comcast - San Mateo (15354)"

which would be the best cable lineup is actually worse than "No Match".

good call signs: 21
bad call signs: 50

Anyway, it might be worth a try. At least before commiting yourself to making a lot of changes.
You can switch back to "No Match" right away if it wasn't a good choice.

)

(PS: I wish there was a way to preserve blank spaces so that I didn't have to use "." and "_" to get the alignment correct. I didn't find [pre]..[/pre] to help actually preserve spaces. Using [font=courier]..[/font] for a monospaced font was the best help so far regarding alignment. (I wrapped these in noparse tags just now, btw). I found all of these tags on http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode)

update1(switched to using [code]..[/code]. And http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/misc.php?do=bbcode covers the tags supported on AVS Forum. (it is linked to on the bottom of the page where it says "BB code is On"))

Ok, I'm having partial DTVPal-TVGOS success in Denver. I have a grid though it's not populated yet.
Not seeing the clock problem yet.

Do not have subchannels. I'm also missing main channels I know I get, and translators (I'm in Boulder and pick up some Denver channels via translators that appear not to be in the "special" 00020 zipcode). When I go to change channel channel display there are no other channels displayed.

Just turned on my Panasonic DMR-EH50 and shock - I have a grid and 4 digital channels.

There are no program listings yet and I'm missing more channels than are showing up.
I've never seen a partial list of channels before. Will it add more later?

Currently I only have
CBS 141 (4.1)
ABC 171 (7.1)
Fox 411 (31.1) - I've remapped this to 321 - Fox channel 22 translator in Fort Collins
PBS KRMA ch 6 - not sure which one I'm picking up likely translator 24 out of Boulder.

What's missing from the grid that I can tune to manually with the Panny remote via G-link
NBC - 9.1, 9.2, 9.3
PBS - 6.2 6.3, 6.5
MyTV - ch 20.1
PAX - 59.1, 59.2, 59.3, 59.4

25.1 KDEN (Telemundo)
7-27 (En Vivo)


One's I can't get until they move transmitters, increase power etc.
Channel 2 KWGN, PBS Channel 12 KDBI.


I've seen other people mention not getting the subchannels. Is there anyone getting the subchannels in the TVGOS grid via the PAL?
I do have some things like KRMA and KRMAH in the channel editor so I mapped 6.3 into KRMAH (which I don't recall having seen before, what's the H mean?).I've gone into the channel editor and mapped into the subchannels - will update if I do or don't get any program grid info populating them.

Update 1: After scrolling through the Channel editor I found 3 KRMA's and the KRMAH. KDVR (Fox) and KDVRH
Interestingly there are only 1 NBC and 1 PAX. There is a KCNC and a KCNC-DT both CBS. CBS in Denver has no subchannels.

I think the only time channels are added (and turned on) is right after you choose a channel lineup.


I assume you mean the non .1 subchannels. Yes I got 13 of those when using the alternate zip. I mentioned this in my previous message.


On http://research.backchannelmedia.com/dma/show/Denver I see:
.0 is Backchannelmedia's representation of analog channels.

I don't remember seeing H used before. Regardless, various schemes are used to name Hi-Definition channels differently from their analog counterpart. You might enable both KRMA and KRMAH at the same time with the same channel number to compare them. I dislike the high definition ones because they clutter the listings with the "HD" symbol in them. In my experience the channels carry the same content. But someplace somewhere the two might differ.

I talked about this some here.

Anyone that cares about getting their listings correct should consult Backchannelmedia's site.

http://research.backchannelmedia.com/ -> DMA -> your (Region or Time Zone) -> (your or nearby) City

update1(It is too bad Macrovision doesn't use this site. It would make a lot less work for the rest of us)

update3(
When the DTVPal is in TV Guide mode it has you access the channel numbers differently.
1. Remove any .0
2. Add .1 to any num without a dot
3. Remove the dot and add 100.
)

I was curious whether work I do in the channel editor would carry over from one choice of channel lineup to the next. I set all the channel numbers to 0. After choosing a new channel lineup all of my 0s were gone. So it appears the answer is no.

It is rather effortless to choose another channel lineup. The only problem is that different call sign letters will cause you to lose your existing listings for channels that've changed. Say you had channel 121 as KTVU before but now have it as KTVUD. (here KTVU is for analog 2, KTVUD is for 2.1)

TV Guide > Setup > Change System Settings > Yes, but my channel lineup is incorrect.

In my previous message where I mentioned the mess that came in when using the alternate zip. I didn't ultimately keep that lineup. (too much work to fix it)

But I think I may have just noticed that some of the call sign letters for the non .1 subchannels might only be available when you use an alternate zip. I'm not sure of this one yet.

update2( This is false. The call sign letters actually changed. In this from 5/12/09 I mention how. )

Based on the info from Backchannelmedia this is what it took in the channel editor to find the missing channels:
So did those 3 (N/A) call signs disappear because I chose my regular zip code instead of the alternate one?

update2( The call sign letters actually changed. this mentions how. )

(to make your work in the channel editor more efficient I recommend you keep a list of the call sign letters you want to enable in alphabetic order)
(with my Panasonic DMR-EH75V page up/down is done using the channel up/down button. The remote actually has the word "PAGE" beside the channel button)

update2(Despite the following I have generally taken people at their word when updating the info here where I track who has had success. I would just feel better if people would do this additional checking. )

It is possible that people that think their DTVPal is converting the TV Guide listings are in fact mistaken.

There are few questions to answer to verify that it is working.

Get into diagnostic mode as mentioned in the first "Quote:" here.

(I only have a single TVGOS device (Panasonic DMR-EH75V w/ TVGOS 9). So hopefully what I say is still meaningful to others)

You navigate through the diagnostic mode screens using the arrow keys. Up and Down arrow takes you through the main sections. Left and Right arrow takes you through the subsections.

The initial screen is "Section System - System Info".

Pressing right arrow takes you to:

"Section System - Statistics"

Host Chan 0:0-9...... <- your TV Guide channel
VBI Chan: 0:0-5...... <- whatever channel your device is currently tuned to

The number to the left of the ":" tells you what "input number" the channel is on.

But to find out what device is associated with this "input number" you should check the "Input Configuration" screen.

Next press down arrow until you get to "Section Setup".
(with my version 9 of TVGOS I press down arrow 7 times)

"Section Setup - Input Configuration"

input:....avail:....config..tvcAvl.....tvcCfg
0 RF......ACBSD.....A.......Aa.........Aa
1 IN1
2 IN2
3 IN3.......BSD.....B.......B..........B
4 DV

So this means that my TV Guide listings are coming from the RF input.

And I presently have an antenna directly hooked up to the RF input. Thus my TV Guide listings are not coming from the DTVPal. Because I have the DTVPal's RF output directly connected to my TV instead of my Panasonic.

I don't believe these "input" numbers are the same for everyone.

So it would be good if anyone reporting that their DTVPal is outputting TV Guide listings mention what their "Host Chan:" is set to. And what device their "Host Chan:" is using based on the "input number".

I don't know why there is a "0-" in front of the "9" in "0:0-9". But anyway my TV Guide listings are coming from analog channel 9 via the RF input.


What is your "Host Chan" set to?

What is the input device associated with the first number in your "Host Chan"?

Without knowing this information how can one really be sure where their listings are coming from?


By the way if you have version 7 of TVGOS your "Host Chan:" will apparently be in hexadecimal.
You can convert that to decimal using www.google.com.

For intance a google search for:

0x13 in decimal

gets google to say:

0x13 = 19

(for anyone that doesn't have that "Input Configuration" screen a trick would be to leave diagnostic mode, tune to the channel you see listed in the "Host Chan:", and then go back into diagnostic mode and verify that your "VBI Chan" and your "Host Chan" are the same.

You should be able to tell when you tuned to the Host Chan that the window that appears identifying the channel is one from the DTVPal. But you could even try disconnecting the cable from the DTVPal that is supplying that video signal to see if the picture goes out.

update1(
If you are having trouble getting the input number in your "VBI Chan:" to be the same as in your "Host Chan:" you might need to cycle through the inputs. On my Panasonic remote there is an [Input Select] button
)
)

update3(
This was not a mystery to me that my Host Chan is not on my DTVPal, of course. I'm regularly checking CBS 5 (KPIX) using TSReader Lite as mentioned here and I know that the DTVPal won't work yet.

I was just giving an example for the sake of an example.
)

Now that I can run the G* Test from my LG3410a DVR, I've seen information that I hadn't heard about before...

I'm seeing information that the G* Test is receiving VBI-A and VBI-B data...

Is there any information on what the two of them are?

Second question: I'm seeing TVG data on lines 13, 14, 15, 16 on the DTVPal... I believe that a prior conversation with someone revealed that the Eight different versions of TVG could be supported from the DTVPal in TVG mode, simultaneously. Has anyone determined which versions are being sent, on which line or field?

Thanks! (Presently getting TVG Data from DTVPal, but Waiting for Channel List to appear on the 3410a from DTVPal)

I've started getting digital listings in the eh50 via the DTVPal - the trick seems to be the CBS host station has to be in zoom mode on the DTVPal when you force the VBI. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post16383490

Since the eh50 doesn't offer a choice of channel lineups - I've used setup to indicate a wrong channel lineup to get a full list in the channel editor. Problem is only one of the stations with multiple sub-channels has them listed. I can map other listed channels to the subchannels to get them in the grid (i.e. the missing NBC subchannels can be HBO1 and HBO2) but I'm never going to get program info:-)

The eh50 (TVGOS V7) does not give you a choice of channel lineups. All you can do is go to setup - say your lineup is incorrect and go into the channel editor and manually add additional channels IF they are available. There is only 1 entry each for NBC and ION and it appears to be for the analog (the eh50 only supports a single input source so what's coming out of the DTVPal is what's going into the eh50) - so while I can cannibalize another channel and map the extra subchannels (say NBC 9.2 and 9.3 to HBO1 and HBO2) there will never be program listings. The whole reason I've endured over a year of waiting, reading, and futzing with the friggin' Pal is for those blankin' program listings in my eh50.

I only receive about 20 channels OTA out of all those listed for the Denver DMA (Boulder's geography), and I want only about 10 of those(including multiple subchannels). I've enabled all 3 KRMA's and the KRMAH though I had to map them to the 3 digit channel numbers (there were no channel numbers associated with 3 of them and Boulder is served off a different transmitter for KRMA than Denver). I had to manually map all of the channels other than the 4 that showed up originally.

My guess from the various posts on various threads on various sites is that the GBA's in general seem to be missing station subchannel listings that Macrovision will have to sort out. For grins I submitted a support request to Macrovision asking the missing subchannel listings be added :-)

I try to read your posts in whole - I really do - but there is so much minute detail to decipher that I end up skimming them looking for a concise summation. I'm not even sure half that time that any of it applies to my eh50 with TVGOS v7. I likely miss much worthwhile info. But so it goes with my short attention span:-) This is why I haven't built a Myth/Sage TV setup.

I use http://www.statman.info/conversions/hexadecimal.html for hex<->decimal conversions

For TVGOS V7 to get the host ID info - Press guide - navigate to Messages - highlight theTV Guide On Screen ID Number. then enter 753159852 -

Page 1 is Setup Data
Host ID, Host Chan and VBI Chan are all on the first page displayed. The version number of your TVGOS is the first string of numbers on the 3rd line. Mine is 07.01.32
Host Channel 0x2800008D - (converts to 141 which is 4.1 CBS KCNC)
VBI - 0x28000141 - 141 which is 4.1
Next DL 5/02/09 15:45

so hopefully I'll start getting program listings this afternoon. I have type A and B slicing data - no type C.

All this the info displayed while I was on channel 321 (22.1 - KDVR). I forced the VBI to 141 when I did the DTVPal box setup on the panny.

FWIW, The DMR-EH50 (and I believe all TVGOS V7) doesn't allow multiple input sources for the antenna/cable box, my manual and setup process doesn't have the section you referenced previously for choosing 2 sources and there's no input devices list in the diagnostic screens. I'm going to make the assumption that the 0x in V7 means device 0 - and that's whatever was picked in the eh50 setup process.

The Pal only passes analog if it's in APT mode, which doesn't work while it's in TVGOS mode (it prompts to switch out of TVGOS mode if you press the APT button). I'm not clear on how the Pal could pass the analog PBS signal if it's not in APT mode and V7 only allows a single antenna source? Or if you've only got the Pal hooked the DVR?

For the last 10 months whenever I've reset the eh50 and put the Pal in TVGOS mode for 2-3 days my program listings stopped updating and it never found a host channel. Every time I switched it back to analog it locked and updated listings with 12 hours. For the couple of weeks the national analog PBS signal was off I got nothing, nada, not even a channel lineup. This time my channel lineup changed radically, I had a couple of program listings for a digital channel not in my analog lineup, the host channel locked and the channel editor listings changed. It's always good to verify but my first reaction to such a series of events is FINALLY SOME CONVERTED TVGOS IS COMING THROUGH THE @#$#@# DTVPAL!!!!

Unhook your antenna from the Panny's RF input and up to the DTV Pal and use that for your tuner.

Then hook the RF out from the Pal to the RF in on the recorder for good measure (in case it really needs that to pass the digital data through).

That way you're less likely to be getting the TVGOS from an analog source, unless it's possible for it to it leak through.

The only way you could ever really be positive that it's not the analog TVGOS I think is if there is absolutely none around you to be picked up - and that means for at least a hundred mile radius, even from a faint signal.

From my search 2 months ago for converted TVGOS data with ONLY the Pal connected to my v7 LG310a, I can confirm that the Pal in TVGOS mode - while it does convert the incoming digital channel to which it is set - only acts as a high-pass filter to all the other channels coming from the antenna, and a not very effective one, at that. As a result, the 3410a can get enough from the leaked-through analog signals to select one as the host channel, even if the picture coming though on it is almost nonexistent - i.e., so snowy that you can barely make out faces. (When this happened with my setup, not enough TVGOS data was coming through to fill the grid with info, but it was enough to cause the 3410a to select that channel as its host. (I should add that this was IN THE ABSENCE of any TVGOS data coming through the PAL on the converted channel itself.)

Cheers - Tony

As of today NEITHER of my units today got any TVGOS listings for day 8, and my 3410a switched to PBS 9 as host (apparently futilely...)

Something happened overnight on my Panny E85H in New York City. I left my Pal+ in cable box mode and when I walked in the room about 24 hours later I saw a U99 code on my Panny (I don't remember whether it was flashing or not). But anyway I powered it on and saw that the clock had been set correctly (automatically) and I also saw that the guide had a TVGOS ID number which I haven't seen before with this setup. Still no guide data, though. I also punched in the code to check to see if I had a Host, VBI or Host Channel. Nothing in any of them. I think there was some info that related to the clock.

The U99 error wasn't serious and went away when I powered off and powered on again. I saw other forums info on that error and some people have gotten it for different reasons. Some said it was a divide error and others said it had to do with the TVGOS. Also when I powered it up after I saw the U99, I got a Please Wait message, which I normally wouldn't get unless I had pulled the plug. I'd never seen the U99 code in all the years I had the Panny, but I'd basically only used the Panny to do manually-timed recording in the past. Mostly just pushed the record button.

Okay, what I want to know is does that Guide ID number indicate anything hopeful. Since the clock got set, could maybe that indicate something good or is the clock data not related to the guide data. Is there any info in the TVGOS ID number that is useful?

Anyway I'm just giving this information in case it is useful to anyone. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Mostly useless questions:
I'm not a technician or anything, but does it seem odd to design a device that uses guide data that can only pull TVGOS data when it's shut off (standby mode). Shouldn't it be able to at least update TVGOS information while it's on? Couldn't they have even put some indicator light that data was being downloaded or something? I suppose if everything works right these things don't matter.

Was it that difficult to design a circuit to do that? My Scientific Atlanta cable box can do that (yes I know it's newer than my Panny)

Jan - as I noted yesterday in another thread, it seems A and B are just two different types of TVGOS packets, e.g., one might be for schedule info, while the other might be for program descriptions...pure speculation, of course, although the fact that my Sony gets type B and C MIGHT lead to a further speculation, based on my observation (which I'm 75% sure of) that the two units typically have slightly DIFFERING program descriptions for the same scheduled programs, suggesting that maybe A and C are the differing program descriptions (since the units DO have the SCHEDULING data in common, as far as I have noticed)...does anybody else have more concrete info? This is one of the issues that I have NEVER seen elucidated in any of the threads I follow...

This suggestion is based in part on the idea that the differing data used by different TVGOS version are NOT broadcast separately, but rather in a single stream of overlapping data with LABELS (think of a matrix, indexed by channel, zip code, TVGOS version?, etc) from which each version KEEPS what IT needs from the total (e.g., 180 minute) broadcast....I began thinking in these terms sometime last year, and I think it was kev who said something much the same in response to how I was earlier describing where my Sony and 3410a were getting data....

Anyway, Jan, if the above in some way reflects the reality, that indirectly suggests a possible answer to your second question, as well as how I was thinking in terms of my suggestion at the beginning of this post...

Cheers again - Tony

I understand Tony..... Was hoping that people here had more detail on what the differences were....

Still no programming data yet, but have disabled un-needed channel icons, re-directed and re-organized the channel list to my liking, and turned it off to await data.

Chicagoland:
Note here that the V7 TVG off CBS Cable (2-0) shows OTA channels as Cable channels, the V7 TVG off DTVPal shows OTA channels as OTA Channel numbers....

Thanks. That's exactly what I needed. I'll try to incorporate that into my instructions.


Ok.


Nope, sorry. 0x is a standard prefix for hexadecimal numbers.

I can't think of a great analogy. Perhaps Dr. Gupta <- Dr. is a standard prefix to signify someone is a doctor.

But in the case of 0x it is touching the number.

Converting 0x2800008D to decimal leads to screwy results.

0x2800008D = 671088781

I think instead parts of the number are being used for different purposes.

0x1D = 141

0x28 = 40.

I wonder if that 0x28 would be something else if an EH50 had a different input source selected.
In otherwords maybe just as a V9 TVGOS incorporates both an input number and a channel number into "Host Chan: 0:0-9", V7 TVGOS does as well, just in a more screwy manner using hex.

So people with TVGOS 7 (and older?) should only look at the 2 right most hex digits and then convert that.

right? nope. The highest channel the DTVPal might tune to is say 693.

693 = 0x2B5

So only the last 3 hex digits should be paid attention to.


I don't think that happens at all either. I believe I tested for that. No analog signals leak through. That's not even a suspicion of mine that that is happening.


Congratulations!-) I'm envious.

Right. Sometimes you have a very good idea based on what you've seen before and the way things are working now that it just has to be different this time. And it is crazy to have people question what you are seeing.


This seems bizarre to me that that decimal number "141" would be intermixed with a "0x28000..." hexadecimal number. This wasn't a slip on your part I take it?-)

update1(
I don't think you were trying to mislead others. I'm not trying to attack you. I had just hoped for a quick clarification.

Anyway, my latest thought is that since you weren't familiar with "0x" and perhaps not hex in general that you just were giving a translation of what that portion of that hex number represented.

Don't sweat it.

I could've used more tact.
)

[quote=kev4321;16392962
I don't think that happens at all either. I believe I tested for that. No analog signals leak through. That's not even a suspicion of mine that that is happening.
[/QUOTE]
I have found that in TVGOS mode, the Pal acts like a high-pass filter, and - in particular - enough of PBS 9 (which I guess has a RELATIVELY high frequency) DOES leak through! (Enough for my 3410a to switch back to it as host channel a couple of months ago when I was testing, though it only got a fraction of a download in the 3-hour period...)

5/4/09 Chicagoland
This evening I got data into 3410a from DTVPal, and did a TVG recording.

Does anyone remember the web address for the Dish network CHAT room? I wanted to ask if a new firmware 107 will be out soon? Before I buy another Pal.

Seems the chat room people know more then the phone people.

thanks

As of today Ch. 62 in detroit is now passing guide info and correct time for My Panasonic EH85 (version 7 of TVGOS)
Missing a few channels from the market listing but even distant channels from Toledo are there.. I assume that the channel listing will fill out to include the missing detroit channels.... Maybe they will eventually add sub channels - - Really geeked after all this time!!

a further note regarding comparison of TVGOS for the LG3410a (versions 7) and the Sony 250 (version 8)....

I wanted to check the packets rates on these two units, of which the LG gets packet types A and B and the Sony gets types B and C, from our 2 local analog stations broadcasting TVGOS...

Details at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post16405308, but the bottom line is that at 4:15 PM, the packet B count rates dominated and were the same from both stations and on both units, at about 3 per second, while type C rates were about a third of this, and type A were at least a factor of 10 lower than B...remember, this was just during the period I was checking...

Here was an odd experience today.

For a while I've been getting annoyed at local stations that run 4x3 programming but don't send out that signal that's supposed to tell your equipment to go "fullscreen" with it when you're using a 4x3 set.

Today, my local NBC station apparently started doing it. (So far none of the others have.)

I was watching FAMILY FEUD and it was automatically zooming. I couldn't even get it to go to letterbox to make that horrible set of four black bars appear.

Thing was, when the afternoon news came on, it jumped back and forth a bit between letterbox and fullscreen, but then finally settled in on fullscreen.

Problem is, the news has been run in widescreen FOREVER, so I know it should have been coming in letterboxed.

Maybe a call to the station? (Great...now I have to complain they ARE sending out the zoom signal, only they're doing it when they shouldn't.)

Has anyone else seen anything like this?

I have noticed this in New York City using the Pal+ and OTA antenna. There are stations that I can't do anything with as far as zooming and full. Some seem to be locked at normal. I thought something was strange when I would go to different stations and even though I had the TV set and the Pal+ set a certain way, some stations filled the screen differently even though they were HD. Glad it's not just my equipment. I got one station that had black bars all the way around so it showed up like it was a 3/4 screen. But I had been noticing this for a couple of weeks.

"Serial Test" and "IR Test" I believe are only meaningful to people that have the equipment necessary to service and repair these units.

I'd guess they would hook up some special equipment to the IR Blaster port and serial port (wherever that thing is located... probably on some internal board).

Flash probably has to do with some internal flash memory.

VBI is the only one that matters. At least for those of us with an interest in using the DTVPal to do the digital to analog TVGOS conversion for us.

This just came up on 4-27-09 in this same thread. Though I didn't mention my suspicion about the serial and IR tests.

I decided to test this stuff again.

The RF output of the DTVPal Plus (F106) had been hooked up to my TV.
I hooked up the RF output to the RF input of my Panasonic DMR-EH75V (TVGOS 9).

I pressed the [Input Select] button on the Panasonic remote to make the RF input active. The clue that this has happened via the LCD display isn't the greatest. "CH 2" to "CH 69" will be displayed and you won't be able to tune a number outside this range. (that's the same display when the DTVPal is seen as a Scientific Atlanta cable box is active. Though obviously the numbers can go higher in that case)

I tuned the Panasonic to channel 9 (PBS station that transmits analog TVGOS).

I did the G*Test (1st). After 17 seconds it got "VBI Test: FAIL".

update2( I exited G*Test using the [Power] button. With TVGOS 9 I think this is mandatory. In earlier versions it apparently isn't necessary)

I then pressed the "Analog Pass-Through" button on the remote.

I did another G*Test (2nd).

G*Test ran for 15 mins 37 secs. Before disappearing it said:

good VBI packets: 3367
fixed VBI packets: 0
bad VBI packets: 0

I then decided to do another G*Test (3rd) but start in "Analog Pass-Through" mode and switch out of it right after "VBI Test: PASS".

After G*Test had been running for 8 seconds "VBI Test: PASS" appeared.

I then pressed the "Analog Pass-Through" button on the DTVPal remote.

G*Test ran for 15 mins 39 secs and before disapearing said approximately:

good VBI packets: 1241
fixed VBI packets: 1056
bad VBI packets: 1149

(it is difficult to write multiple numbers at the same time when they have just disappeared)
(I had periodically been typing them as it got close to the end. So these numbers are within 10 or so of the correct value, I'd guess).

I should say that my Panasonic by default is set to show channels that don't have a good signal as a solid blue screen with no sound. In my first G*Test that failed this is how things remained.

But with the 3rd one that I started in analog pass-through mode it worked differently. Instead of the small video window in the upper left corner remaining blue (or black?) it showed the real channel with regular moving images and sound. Though it had lots of snow covering it.

After the Panasonic did its typical 3 minute and 20 second recovery cycle (apparently unique to TVGOS 9) channel 9 still showed the active channel covered with snow. Not the typical blue screen I had seen.

So I decided to run a G*Test (4th) from the start just the way things were. (not first doing it in APT mode).

G*Test ran for 15 mins 38 secs:

good VBI packets: 2709
fixed VBI packets: 1186
bad VBI packets: 362

(this time I captured the end with a video camera. = more accurate numbers)

Anyway, clearly the analog TV Guide signal leaks through the DTVPal.

update1(
TVGOS 9's G*Test doesn't distinguish between "Type A" and "Type B" packet types.
)

Later I figured out how to disable the Panasonic's blue screen of channels with a weak signal:

[Function] button -> Other Functions -> Setup -> Display -> Blue Backround: Off

(I just mention that as an aside)

I had the blue screen enabled on my E55, too, and I just turned it off the other night. Now, all the weaker analogs that weren't getting through are doing so ( the amp I had on my rooftop antenna went out last fall, and I haven't had a chance to replace it yet).

I have it set up with the Pal, too, but I'm just getting the analog TVGOS through the pass-through currently, because I can't receive the local CBS digital channel anyway right now. Come June 12th (when they are supposed to be changing frequencies), I'll hopefully be able to get it solidly.

I'm getting the analog guide here, but only on my Sony DVR, which is v8. I only get the ads lately on the Panny, which is v9. That's strange, because they always used the same host channel before. Must have the signals separated and are fooling with them separately. Unless it has something to do with the fact that the Panny's set up for DirecTV, in order to work with the Pal. But it gets the same info, so I don't see why.

I had attached my VHF antenna to the Panny E85H RF input and in about 12 hours it pulled in the guide and listings to about 15 stations with channel 7 giving program info as far as Sunday (almost 5 days worth). Anyway, I checked the diagnostic screen and got some info. I was just wondering if someone could tell me what the TVGOS analog signal station is by looking at it.

HOST ID: 0x307
HOST CHANNEL: 0x28000038
VBI CHANNEL: 0x280000AB

I'm doubtful that CBS in NY is sending any TVGOS data the Panny can understand in it's digital signal as of yet. On analog, data is definitely coming through (some station), but after leaving the Pal+ in CB mode for days and reducing the stations to about 10 (7 major stations and 2 PBS stations), no data listings ever came through.