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Dish DTVPal / Echostar TR40 digital to analog converter - Page 30

post #871 of 6751
6/15/08 at 8:59am
Why can't they just make a basic VCR that can do this? Seriously, how much does it cost to put one of these tuners into a basic VCR?
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post #872 of 6751
6/15/08 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpconard View Post

I agree with slprp1.

I researched the pre-order process (on this forum) and determined that it sounded like Provantage wasn't using SDR process, so I doubted those would materialize.

I then questioned the "what if" Freedtvshop doesn't get that order would it leave their customers in a pinch (go back a few pages when I questioned that). I give credit to Mosquito for giving as much time as he did. He is doing it the right way and he clearly posts the situation on his page. Good job.

Malouff has done a good job handing out the phone #s and e-mails. I sent my complaints to NTIA, I recommend everybody does.

This Dave Zatz guy is off his rocker as Francie Bauer replied to me directly many months ago when I sent a general inquiry (to SLING). She/he replied back 2 more times after that, so that person was clearly in charge of this product or they shouldn't have replied to me. So there was nothing wrong in posting that name and contact info.

The price thing is kind of bad, but not nearly as bad as the "lead-on" responses I have received and many others here as well. Dish could have done a lot more to help people out than they did.

I like the looks of the unit, if CC gets them I still may return 1 of my Zeniths (one not opened yet). But I won't return both. More than likely I won't get one, I'm not getting hopes up again. Dish doesn't deserve it.

CC = Circuit City?

Are any brick and morters getting the DTVPal yet? That was the only one I wanted because of the timer feature but the $20 price increase at the last moment jaded me.
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post #873 of 6751
6/15/08 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcchiefsguru View Post

Why can't they just make a basic VCR that can do this? Seriously, how much does it cost to put one of these tuners into a basic VCR?

Standalone VCRs are pretty much dead at this point, but there are DVD recorders that do include a digital tuner. I've seen a Panasonic unit for under $190 at a local Target for about a year now.
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post #874 of 6751
6/15/08 at 9:08am
kcchief,

Yes Cicuit City,

When do your coupons expire? If you have time, just wait and monitor this thread. If you don't I recommend the Zenith. St. Louis stores had plenty of the 900s (most April). I haven't gone back to look for 901s, but don't have need for analog pass through.

Edit: I see you said 6/22, yes that was the boat I was in 6/3. I didn't want to wait till the last day as you never know if there would be a run on them at the store and leave you high and dry. The ones at Wal-mart look cheap to me, just my opinion.
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post #875 of 6751
6/15/08 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpconard View Post

This Dave Zatz guy is off his rocker as Francie Bauer replied to me directly many months ago when I sent a general inquiry (to SLING). She/he replied back 2 more times after that, so that person was clearly in charge of this product or they shouldn't have replied to me. So there was nothing wrong in posting that name and contact info.

Off my rocker? Nice.

Francie, a former colleague of mine, primarily handles PR and most of us on these forums are not press. So, yeah, I do think it's uncool to publish her direct line for everyone on the web with a suggestion to bombard her. And Francie's been a great sport in responding to non-press inquiries as they've come in.

You can do what you want on AVS, but on my blog it's my rules and I will 100% of the time continue to delete personal contact info provided by anyone other than that person.
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post #876 of 6751
6/15/08 at 9:31am
Her first response back in March was that they may be able to push up the distribution date, then the 2nd was they may set-up a pre-order process, then the 3rd was "sorry no updates".

If that was the contact name I received unsolicited, I see no reason not to give that contact name out, when no others have been made available.

Keep your opinion on your blog, I think most people are fed-up with this DISH vaporware. Oh wait, you have a blog, you received one for free and you took a few pictures and you are giving one away for free like it is a piece of gold. You are a saint.

Why don't you do something for the rest of us? Why didn't DISH do something for the rest of us? I'll tell you why they don't give a ****.
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post #877 of 6751
6/15/08 at 9:40am
Dave, have you heard any word on who will have these in stock next Thursday? The dish website is still useless as a source of information.
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post #878 of 6751
6/15/08 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

Dave, have you heard any word on who will have these in stock next Thursday? The dish website is still useless as a source of information.

Not sure who's handling distribution at this time, but I just pinged the Sales Director at Sling to see if he's got any info I can share publicly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpconard View Post

Keep your opinion on your blog, I think most people are fed-up with this DISH vaporware. Why don't you do something for the rest of us?

Hm, I thought I was doing something for the community. While I agree that the distribution situation and shifting info sounds frustrating for folks waiting for this device, it has absolutely nothing to do with me. But we're straying off topic here... Feel free to continue this via PM where we can have ourselves a grand ole uncensored pissing match.
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post #879 of 6751
6/15/08 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post

If the gov't had any common sense they'd just make all the cards expire in July '09 or something and put unused money back in the general fund instead of recycling the expired funds into new cards and running out of postage.

If they did that, they'd run out of coupons long before the deadline, unless they also greatly increased the size of the pool.
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post #880 of 6751
6/15/08 at 10:08am
Cant wait to see the comparison to
the 901.

Might be equal to 901 but I doubt it to be
better in pq and reception.

Raising the price to 60 bills is akin
to the corner gas station price
matching the nearest competitor.
It stinks and for my second box
Ill stick with the 901 as its great
and a better build.

The hoopla and cheerleading concerning
the dtvpal is awesome brainwashing
for a product that hasnt yet been
real world tested by the masses. I have
to admit the cheerleading and hoopla
had me salivating for one. Once I read
price jumped to 60 I said to heck with
it and got the 901 and havent looked back.

Cant wait to see real world results.

Need pass thru, get a spliter.
Need to record to a vcr, get a splitter.
Enough said.
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post #881 of 6751
6/15/08 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wh5916 View Post

Standalone VCRs are pretty much dead at this point, but there are DVD recorders that do include a digital tuner. I've seen a Panasonic unit for under $190 at a local Target for about a year now.

Do these include a record timer? What is max record time on a DVD......I normally record 2-6 hrs. max on my VCR and know it will not last forever...
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post #882 of 6751
6/15/08 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by obx View Post

Cant wait to see the comparison to
the 901.

Might be equal to 901 but I doubt it to be
better in pq and reception.

Raising the price to 60 bills is akin
to the corner gas station price
matching the nearest competitor.
It stinks and for my second box
Ill stick with the 901 as its great
and a better build.

The hoopla and cheerleading concerning
the dtvpal is awesome brainwashing
for a product that hasnt yet been
real world tested by the masses. I have
to admit the cheerleading and hoopla
had me salivating for one. Once I read
price jumped to 60 I said to heck with
it and got the 901 and havent looked back.

Cant wait to see real world results.

Need pass thru, get a spliter.
Need to record to a vcr, get a splitter.
Enough said.

If it can tune, say, ABC at 9pm and automatically switch to NBC at 10pm - SOLD!
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post #883 of 6751
6/15/08 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexus2108 View Post

$40 to $60 is NOT a 50% increase. Close to 39.4% increase. Still wrong what they did to john though

Since you've half-heartedly agreed that $40 * 1.5 = $60 for a 50% price increase, maybe you'd entertain the fact that Dish's margin increase would be considerably higher, probably in the 500-1000% range. What started out as a Dish loss-leader to gain public goodwill becomes a high margin winfall courtesy of the federal government program and a consumer who is probably at the end of the day willing to be played.
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post #884 of 6751
6/15/08 at 10:52am
In response to post #888
Yes they include an event timer, just like a VCR and 6-8 hours max/regular DVD. I use -RW discs and use them over and over like a VHS tape. I'd say the 6hr speed would be equal to a 6hr speed on VHS while the 2hour speed on a quality DVDR is superior to the 2hr speed on a VHS.
I was a VHS SP guy and get better PQ using speeds between 2-4 hours/disc with my Panasonic DVDRs.
Check out the DVD recorders subform for more info on DVDRs. The new ones either come with the digital tuner or no tuner at all, just line input recording. The ones with tuners are right around $200. Cheaper tunerless ones can be had for a little more than $100.
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post #885 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

In response to post #888
Yes they include an event timer, just like a VCR and 6-8 hours max/regular DVD. I use -RW discs and use them over and over like a VHS tape. I'd say the 6hr speed would be equal to a 6hr speed on VHS while the 2hour speed on a quality DVDR is superior to the 2hr speed on a VHS.
I was a VHS SP guy and get better PQ using speeds between 2-4 hours/disc with my Panasonic DVDRs.
Check out the DVD recorders subform for more info on DVDRs. The new ones either come with the digital tuner or no tuner at all, just line input recording. The ones with tuners are right around $200. Cheaper tunerless ones can be had for a little more than $100.

1. How does it compare with good SVHS SP?
2. With what brand of -RW DVDs have you had the best luck?
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post #886 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post

Do these include a record timer? What is max record time on a DVD......I normally record 2-6 hrs. max on my VCR and know it will not last forever...

I have one currently with a NTSC tuner. don't record more than 3 hours to a disk are you get really noticeable signal degrading.
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post #887 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_R View Post

Charlie Chat . . . . stated that a $39.99 box was in the process of getting approval.

Any "approval" would be from Dish management. They're waiting to find out how many idiots don't mind being lied to and paying $60 for the box, before making some cosmetic changes and dropping the price to the $40 promised to see if they can keep the rest of us from buying a competor's product for another 90 days or so. Can you say: "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me"?
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post #888 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Oh, I accept it alright. But I also expected it, because I've had Dish for 3 1/2 years, and I'm used to it.

Spoken with the wisdom of an honest man.
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post #889 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpconard View Post

Malouff has done a good job handing out the phone #s and e-mails. I sent my complaints to NTIA, I recommend everybody does.

This Dave Zatz guy is off his rocker as Francie Bauer replied to me directly many months ago when I sent a general inquiry (to SLING).

I have not done the BEST job handing out phone #s and e-mails.

Like Dave Zatz said some of those were for the PRESS ONLY and I sent a lot of unneeded traffic there way and probably only caused delays.

I also don't think Dave is off his rocker as he currently has nothing to do with the DTVPal and according to mosquito nether does Sling.

I know we are all frustrated.
Personally I know I am with only two approved participating retailers.
It looks like we must all wait until June 19th according to Charlie Chat.

By the way if you eMail TR40@slingmedia.com it now has the following.
Quote:


The DTVPal (TR-40) and TR-50 are now ONLY available through the DISH Network Sales organization. To receive updates as information becomes available, please sign up for their analog to digital newsletter.
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post #890 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:36am
Since the audio portion of that Charlie Chat tape specifically said "government," it appears there is another box being sent through CECB approval. My hope is that it turns out to be a problem with power supply as someone mentioned much earlier as a reason for the changes. If a $40 box gets approved in original size box without external power supply, and without g-link if that adds cost, it would still be perfect for me.
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post #891 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malouff View Post

I have not done the BEST job handing out phone #s and e-mails.

Like Dave Zatz said some of those were for the PRESS ONLY and I sent a lot of unneeded traffic there way and probably only caused delays.

I also don't think Dave is off his rocker as he currently has nothing to do with the DTVPal and according to mosquito nether does Sling.

I know we are all frustrated.
Personally I know I am with only two approved participating retailers.
It looks like we must all wait until June 19th according to Charlie Chat.

By the way if you eMail TR40@slingmedia.com it now has the following.

I have been signed up for their newsletter for weeks and have yet to receive one bit of information from the as yet.
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post #892 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcchiefsguru View Post

I have been signed up for their newsletter for weeks and have yet to receive one bit of information from the as yet.

I also have not got anything from any newsletter.
That was part of what I got from the automated response when I sent a eMail today.
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post #893 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

......THIS IS A BLATENT RIP-OFF!......
DISH NETWORK KNEW ALL ALONG WHAT THEIR COSTS WERE AND HOW PROFITABLE THIS UNIT WOULD BE. THEY CONTINUED TO PROMOTE IT AT $39.99. THEY WERE SIMPLY USING US AS PAWNS IN A DECEITFUL GAME!! NOW, WHEN THEY SAW JUST HOW MUCH INTEREST THEIR WAS, THEY DECIDED TO PULL THE PLUG ON THE $39.99 MSRP JUST PRIOR TO IT'S RELEASE (OR PERHAPS THIS WAS THEIR PLAN ALL ALONG)!!......THIS IS CAUSING SERIOUS MONETARY LOSSES AND CREDIBILITY ISSUES FOR THE DEALERS, AS WELL AS THEM TAKING FULL ADVANTAGE OF THE CONSUMER......AND THEY SIMPLY DON'T CARE!!

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS AND UNACCEPTABLE!!!!
WE, AS EDUCATED CONSUMERS, NEED TO STEP UP AND STOP THIS PRICE GOUGING AND THE ONLY WAY TO DO THIS IS TO STOP PUTTING ALL THIS EMPHASIS ON FEATURES AND FUNCTIONS..,....AND START AVOIDING THE PURCHASING OF THIS UNIT ALLTOGETHER!!...... IT'S EXAMPLES SUCH AS THIS THAT WILL SERVE AS A LICENSE FOR OTHER MANUFACTURER'S TO GOUGE THEIR PRICES AS WELL!! IT'S TIME TO SET A PRECEDENT......
BOYCOTT THIS UNIT......AND WATCH THE PRICE COME DOWN!!

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!......IT'S NOT SIMPLY THE $20.00......IT'S THE PRINCIPLE!!
(THEY'LL BE LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK......AT OUR EXPENSE)!!

......AND WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, STAY HOME ON THE WEEKENDS AND BUY LESS GAS!......MAYBE THAT PRICE WILL COME DOWN TOO!!

TAKE A STAND AND STOP ALLOWING THIS PRICE GOUGING!!!!
STOP BEING VICTIMIZED BY BIG BUSINESS!!......SPREAD THE WORD!!!!

I absolutely agree with this except that it's not "big" business that's at fault -- it's the "screw the consumer, what you gonna do about it" school of (bad) business that's at fault. Dish may be coincidentally big, but with practices like this, they'll soon be smaller. I'm not willing to condemn all business, because Dish considers lieing to us as a profitable exercise.

Maybe Dish should have kept the $39.99 base price and simply charged a $20 handling fee to compensate for the extra fuel costs (or included the RCA connector and called that an enhancement)" It wouldn't have been more of a rip-off. The only guys who should buy this product are the those who think that it's perfectly reasonable for the airlines to charge an extra $30 roundtrip to check a bag knowing full well that everyone's going to be inconvenienced with longer security lines due to all that extra carryon.
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post #894 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcchiefsguru View Post

Well, this leaves me in a lurch. My two coupons expire on 6/22. Do I have to wait for a few more days for FreeDTV to clear them or are they already cleared? Also, I have no clue what box to get now. I don't want to look at boxes that are over 50 bucks if I can avoid it. IS the RCA at Walmart worth anything?

freedtv indicated that the coupons were cleared right away as i recall.

i would guess that any box that is certified would work. i think that walmart would be the cheapest and most available brick and mortar choice for most people. i don't recall other choices for $50.
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post #895 of 6751
6/15/08 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vt_cyclist View Post

For the folks outraged over the $20 increase of the DTVPAL. Have you noticed the value of the dollar recently (compared to any asian currency where they fab these boxes)? Dollar values of everything will be going up.... get used to it..... we all just took a big pay cut. A one time $20 charge for DTV is nothing compared the $20 a day increase many of us will see this winter with Heating Oil, Gas, and food cost increases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill R (# 2) View Post

WOW! Some people really go off the deep end. To me, its only money and $20 (or $40 or whatever) isn't that big a deal. No, I don't like the fact that they raised the price (if that is what they did) but I am looking for a good box and the DTVPal seems to be one of the better ones out there. I will buy one and test it and if I like it I will recommend it to others.
To me, insane rants like yours carry no weight. NO ONE likes to be shouted at like that and told what to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick313 View Post

Absolutely! Despite Dish's underhanded business practices, I predict that when this thing finally does hit the streets, sales will go through the roof. I can't say that I ever truly expected to get this thing for free. That seemed just a little too convenient. As I've been told since I was a child, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. The bottom line is that even if the price has gone up to match the competition, in my opinion, I will still be getting more value for my investment than I would be getting from any other vendor on the market. For those of us looking for VCR compatibility, the timer feature that this box offers is unique and invaluable. I'm also guessing that by this time next year, all of these boxes will be going for about $20.

Spoken like a true apologist. Did you guys check your bags at curbside on your way to the Dish luncheon?
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post #896 of 6751
6/15/08 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

1. How does it compare with good SVHS SP?
2. With what brand of -RW DVDs have you had the best luck?

My Panasonic DVD recorder, at its SP mode, looks every bit as good to my eyes as the image produced by my top of the line JVC S-VHS deck, which is a model that includes digital signal processing.

As for -RW media, it can be difficult to find a consistent performer, as most companies don't manufacture their own discs. A handful of companies such as CMC Magnetics, Ritek, etc.. manufacture discs for a wide range of companies such as Memorex, TDK, and others. Best advice would be to experiment.
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post #897 of 6751
6/15/08 at 12:17pm
I have a Panasonic DVD recorder and love it. It has an ATSC & NTSC tuner and does an outstanding job of recording both SD & HD programs over the air. (note HD programs are down-res recorded, then upconverted during playback). This process generates a picture that is about 80% as good as the flawless HD picture on my 52-in HDTV. Certainly 100% better than the VCR reproduction on a HDTV.

I use DVD-RAM re-recordable discs (on the 4-hour speed), since you can "chase-play" or watch another program on the same disc, similar to TIVO. The Panasonic also uses DVD +/-RW discs.

(edited to correct RAM disc speed) 6/16 5:48pm ET)
Bob
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post #898 of 6751
6/15/08 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill R (# 2) View Post

WOW! Some people really go off the deep end. To me, its only money and $20 (or $40 or whatever) isn't that big a deal. No, I don't like the fact that they raised the price (if that is what they did) but I am looking for a good box and the DTVPal seems to be one of the better ones out there. I will buy one and test it and if I like it I will recommend it to others.

To me, insane rants like yours carry no weight. NO ONE likes to be shouted at like that and told what to do.

IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION TO "SHOUT" AT ANYONE AND I'M CERTAIN THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF READERS REALIZE THAT......
THIS WAS FAR FROM AN "INSANE RANT"!!
IF PEOPLE WOULD STOP ALLOWING THEMSELVES TO BE PUPPETS TO THESE COMPANIES GAMES AND START TAKING A STAND AGAINST THEM......WE WOULD ALL BENEFIT!!......
HOPEFULLY, OTHERS WILL BE A BIT LESS NARROW MINDED!!

THIS IS SIMPLY UNDERHANDED GREEDINESS ON DISH NETWORK'S PART!!!!

......AND I FORGOT TO MENTION (IN MY "RANT") ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO GOT SUCKED INTO THIS CHERADE......AND NOW WILL BE HOLDING EXPIRED COUPONS!!!!

SHOULD I NOW APOLOGIZE TO DISH NETWORK AND THANK THEM?
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post #899 of 6751
6/15/08 at 12:33pm
OK Dave and Tim, spin it however you want to but short of the DirectTV/Microsoft media center tuner announced CES Jan. 05 or 06 that is nowhere to be seen, this is the worst product announcement ever. Hell I don't even know if this dtvpal is the same as the tr-40, or there are two products or just one. That is the sign of poor marketing, not even knowing what we are talking about.

And no I didn't get the contact info here (from Tim), she responded to me after I sent inquiry to TR40@slingmedia.com. So if I were asked to provide a contact that is the one I would have provided. There is NOTHING wrong with that.

I'll post them here-

Your inquiry
Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:04 AM
From:
"Bauer, Francie"

Jeff,

Our TR-40 should be available in June or July. We're aware of coupons expiring and are hoping the NTIA offers extensions, but unfortunately that's out of our control. Check back with me in a month or so - we may be able to push up the distribution date.



Regards,

Francie Bauer



Francie Bauer
Manager, Corporate Communications
DISH Network Corporation
EchoStar Corporation
720-514-5839

2nd -

Jeff,
We are exploring pre-orders. I should know something by the end of the week -- can you check back with me Friday?

Thanks![/i]

3rd -

Unfortunately, no updates at this time. So sorry about that!



Francie Bauer
Manager, Corporate Communications
DISH Network Corporation
EchoStar Corporation
720-514-5839
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post #900 of 6751
6/15/08 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slprp1 View Post

I FORGOT TO MENTION (IN MY "RANT") ABOUT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO GOT SUCKED INTO THIS CHERADE......AND NOW WILL BE HOLDING EXPIRED COUPONS!!!!

SHOULD I NOW APOLOGIZE TO DISH NETWORK AND THANK THEM?

The way I feel about it is that if you were in the Provantage, MaxMedia boat that had your coupons used then you should be mad

Also those who where in the MicroProse phone in order looks like there coupons were also used
but web orders were still left unused so its a mixed bag here.

If you can get some more coupons from someone else then I would say to let them expire.

If you can't get coupons from someone else then you should have used them on something else.
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