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MSI 7411 Motherboard Sneak Peek (share your thoughts!)

post #1 of 3490
3/4/08 at 1:56pm
Thread Starter 
Model: MSI Media Live Diva (aka MSI-7411)

Features
RS780M Northbridge
SB700 Southbridge
Component Video Out
Digital SPDIF In/Out
VGA Out
HDMI Out
4 x USB on back panel, 4 USB Pin headers on board
1 x 1394 on back panel, 1 1394 Pin header on board
1 x LAN
3 PCIe x1
1 DAE3 slot tucked behind slot 3 PCIe x1 for Audio Add In card
1 PCIe x16 (configured as x8 only due to HDMI sharing PCIe lanes)
Line In (L/R)
Line Out (L/R) (2 channel Preamp)
Subwoofer Line Out
128MB GDDR2 Sideport Memory
D2 Audio DAE-3 DSP for Audio Processing
4 SATA
1 PATA

Add in card options from MSI
5-Channel x 100W (AAIC100-5) Card
100W Peak, Channel Drive, 8Ω
THD+N: <0.1%, 1kHz, 1W
SNR: >105 dB
Frequency Response: ±0.5 dB (20Hz to 20kHz)
93% Efficient Power Amplifier

3 Channel to 7 Channel Pre-Amplifier (AAIC7) Card
High Quality Home Theater Performance
Line-Level Outputs, 2.0Vrms
THD+N: <0.01%, 1kHz, -6dBFS
SNR: >110dB

See the white papers and other docs for more details on the audio solution at:
http://www.d2audio.com/default.aspx?c=679
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post #2 of 3490
3/4/08 at 2:07pm
wow....

Definetly going to be near the top of my list for my new HTPC.

Is there any price or availability date information?
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post #3 of 3490
3/4/08 at 2:10pm
Thread Starter 
Pics posted below.

Board is still in development, but looking really good. Playing back Blu Ray without any problems with low CPU usage.

This board should be a very nice solution to meet the market needs.
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post #4 of 3490
3/4/08 at 2:10pm
Nice. I second the availability question--I suspect end of March based on Anandtech...
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post #5 of 3490
3/4/08 at 2:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iootnega View Post

wow....

Definetly going to be near the top of my list for my new HTPC.

Is there any price or availability date information?

Sorry, you will need to contact MSI on pricing and availability. Best guess right now is May since this is using 780M chipset and not 780G.
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post #6 of 3490
3/4/08 at 2:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jack View Post

Sorry, you will need to contact MSI on pricing and availability. Best guess right now is May since this is using 780M chipset and not 780G.

Uploaded pics.
LL
LL
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post #7 of 3490
3/4/08 at 2:33pm
Yay!

You guys should see this in an Omaura TF8 - they were made for each other.
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post #8 of 3490
3/4/08 at 2:59pm
Now this looks interesting for HTPC, especially as a second-room Media Center machine (instead of using a Media Center Extender). Especially with the component-out built on board.

What's the difference between the 780G and 780M, which was indicated this board is based on? And does the 780M have the same HD3200 on-board graphics? Couldn't seem to find much about it online.
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post #9 of 3490
3/4/08 at 3:04pm
Thread Starter 
M is the mobile variant. It is not officially launched yet, but it is basically the same chipset. M has some mobile specific features that are not implemented on this board, but M also supports Component out which is why it was used on this board vs. the G part.
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post #10 of 3490
3/4/08 at 3:33pm
Ahhh... Now I understand why none of the 780G-based boards announced so far have component video as an option. I didn't realize that the 780G doesn't support component .

I though I saw at one point specs on the 780G that said it did, but guess I was wrong or it was pre-release specs. I see on the announcements from today/yesterday that its DVI/HDMI and Displayport.

Thanks!
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post #11 of 3490
3/4/08 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jack View Post

Uploaded pics.

Thanks.

Very interesting pics:

NO legacy PCI! What is MSI expecting customers to plug into the the PCIex1 slots?

Maybe the unsual rearI/O panel components are throwing me off: Is that a microATX form factor?

"1 PCIe x16 (configured as x8 only due to HDMI sharing PCIe lanes)"
can you expand upon this?
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post #12 of 3490
3/4/08 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Thanks.

NO legacy PCI! What is MSI expecting customers to plug into the the PCIex1 slots?

Maybe the unsual rearI/O panel components are throwing me off: Is that a microATX form factor?

"1 PCIe x16 (configured as x8 only due to HDMI sharing PCIe lanes)"
can you expand upon this?

Pretty much everything that is available in PCI is either now available in PCIe or built-in to motherboards. Unless, of course, you have a specialized product.
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post #13 of 3490
3/4/08 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Thanks.

Very interesting pics:

NO legacy PCI! What is MSI expecting customers to plug into the the PCIex1 slots?

Maybe the unsual rearI/O panel components are throwing me off: Is that a microATX form factor?

"1 PCIe x16 (configured as x8 only due to HDMI sharing PCIe lanes)"
can you expand upon this?


Yes its uATX - and you can get the Visiontek 650 HD PCI-E x1 tuner with low profile adapters and the D-Link Xtreme N 802.11n PCI-E x1 with low profile adapters - what more could you ask for? =)
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post #14 of 3490
3/4/08 at 4:20pm
I guess you are not supposed to use this with hard drives or DVD or Blu-Ray drives, since no PATA or SATA connections are listed.
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post #15 of 3490
3/4/08 at 4:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Thanks.

Very interesting pics:

NO legacy PCI! What is MSI expecting customers to plug into the the PCIex1 slots?

Maybe the unsual rearI/O panel components are throwing me off: Is that a microATX form factor?

"1 PCIe x16 (configured as x8 only due to HDMI sharing PCIe lanes)"
can you expand upon this?

As mentioned, just about anything out there is available as PCIe cards. As with most things about this baord, the goal is to get away from legacy type stuff because they are hard to support in the long run...hence no PS2 port, COM port, etc. PCI is another legacy interface, new board, new chipset, New IO and interface technologies.

Using 780M requires HDMI port to use 4 of the 16 lanes. This leaves 12 of the 16 lanes, there is no PCIe x12, therefore, slot is configured as a x8 which is a supported operating mode for most all PCIe GPU cards today.

Performance loss from x16 to x8 is about 5 to 10% so it is not a major hit. However, since 780 support Hybrid X-Fire operation, putting in a discreete card even in x8 mode should make this quite a gaming box for an HTPC (especially with 512MB dedicated GPU memory already on mobo).
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post #16 of 3490
3/4/08 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jack View Post

As mentioned, just about anything out there is available as PCIe cards. As with most things about this baord, the goal is to get away from legacy type stuff because they are hard to support in the long run...hence no PS2 port, COM port, etc. PCI is another legacy interface, new board, new chipset, New IO and interface technologies.

Using 780M requires HDMI port to use 4 of the 16 lanes. This leaves 12 of the 16 lanes, there is no PCIe x12, therefore, slot is configured as a x8 which is a supported operating mode for most all PCIe GPU cards today.

Performance loss from x16 to x8 is about 5 to 10% so it is not a major hit. However, since 780 support Hybrid X-Fire operation, putting in a discreete card even in x8 mode should make this quite a gaming box for an HTPC (especially with 512MB dedicated GPU memory already on mobo).

Thanks.

I didn't notice the legacy rear panel IO was missing. I must have been distracted by the shiny component video RCA jacks!

This is the PC motherboard I've seen that doesn't have PCI slots.
Do you see this as a trend in motherboards?
Is the SB on this card a SB700 variant that doesn't HAVE an external PCI bus?
Is it in the SB700 family at all?
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post #17 of 3490
3/4/08 at 5:19pm
if they are getting rid of legacy--why the PATA connector? Heck, why VGA? Both are a lot less useful and arguably more dated than a PCI slot on a new build...
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post #18 of 3490
3/4/08 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfoltz View Post

if they are getting rid of legacy--why the PATA connector? Heck, why VGA? Both are a lot less useful and arguably more dated than a PCI slot on a new build...


AMD HyperMemory uses a PATA connector - Jack, is that what it's for primarily?
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post #19 of 3490
3/4/08 at 6:03pm
So, if I understand this right, with the optional amplifier audio add-on, the PC actually has a Class-D amplifier onboard, meaning you can connect your passive speakers directly? Is there more info about the digital amps it uses - I'd really like some insights on the sound quality compared to digital receivers like the Panasonic XR-55 (assuming I've got this straight).

Also, why does the 780M require PCIe lanes for HDMI? And does this in any way give it the extra bandwidth required to enable multichannel LPCM? Hey, you can't blame me for trying!
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post #20 of 3490
3/4/08 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crabnebula View Post

So, if I understand this right, with the optional amplifier audio add-on, the PC actually has a Class-D amplifier onboard, meaning you can connect your passive speakers directly? Is there more info about the digital amps it uses - I'd really like some insights on the sound quality compared to digital receivers like the Panasonic XR-55 (assuming I've got this straight).


Yes - it's D2 Audio powered - I've heard it, it sounds fantastic.
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post #21 of 3490
3/4/08 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jack View Post

As with most things about this baord, the goal is to get away from legacy type stuff

Uh, Component Video is "legacy type stuff".

Any minute now, only HDMI will be allowed for full HD output and component will only output 480p maximum. (for DRM media, of course)
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post #22 of 3490
3/4/08 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMorley View Post

Yes - it's D2 Audio powered - I've heard it, it sounds fantastic.

They develop their own products, this isn't derived from Texas Instruments' products or others?

EDIT: Nevermind, just downloaded the whitepaper.

Wow! I'm surprised there isn't more excitement over this!
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post #23 of 3490
3/4/08 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Dude View Post

Uh, Component Video is "legacy type stuff".

Any minute now, only HDMI will be allowed for full HD output and component will only output 480p maximum. (for DRM media, of course)



He meant legacy PC I/O.
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post #24 of 3490
3/4/08 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crabnebula View Post

They develop their own products, this isn't derived from Texas Instruments' products or others?

http://www.d2audio.com/

It's all developed in house I believe.
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post #25 of 3490
3/4/08 at 6:35pm
One more question. The SPDIF input is routed to the D2audio DSP? Can it decode DD/DTS from an external source?? If it could, this could replace a pre/pro/amp for people with only one other source in their setup with an SPDIF output (eg, game console).
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post #26 of 3490
3/4/08 at 6:50pm
Cool board, but looks like the big advantage it has over the 780G boards is all in the audio.

I guess it does have component out too, actually, which in my mind is a strike against the "G" variant (even though I personally don't need component out...)

So unless you already have 7 speakers + subwoofer, or a 7.1 receiver, or absolutely need component out - this board is no better than the "G" flavor.

Very exciting non the less. I am intruqued by the rear I/O panel. Wish I could afford all the hardware it would take to populate those connectors, not to mention the add on card!
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post #27 of 3490
3/4/08 at 7:01pm
So I guess this this is a "Diamond or Platinum" high-end solution?

MSI never includes S/PDIF on their standard MB's and now they've gone audiophile, well there's a surprise
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post #28 of 3490
3/4/08 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzozzzo View Post

So I guess this this is a "Diamond or Platinum" high-end solution?

MSI never includes S/PDIF on their standard MB's and now they've gone audiophile, well there's a surprise

The audiophile comment reminded me of that company that put a vacuum tube in the audio path of their motherboard in 2002. IKYN:

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Ha...aopenax4btube/

Motherboards have gone from vacuum tube(s) to class-D amps in just a few short years. Amazing!
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post #29 of 3490
3/4/08 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Motherboards have gone from vacuum tube(s) to class-D amps in just a few short years. Amazing!

Tell me about it. Now I'm actually pondering dumping the receiver when I upgrade the HTPC.

I would still like at least one digital input that can decode DD/DTS however. Can't find any indication of whether this can or not.

Also wondering about the cost. I don't think the 5.1 amplifier add-on will be cheap.
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post #30 of 3490
3/4/08 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teookie View Post

Cool board, but looks like the big advantage it has over the 780G boards is all in the audio.

I guess it does have component out too, actually, which in my mind is a strike against the "G" variant (even though I personally don't need component out...)

So unless you already have 7 speakers + subwoofer, or a 7.1 receiver, or absolutely need component out - this board is no better than the "G" flavor.

It also has 512MB of dedicated side-port memory for the IGP, which I doubt you'll find elsewhere. There is a possibility that this will allow better post-processing abilities for video playback, but that needs to be confirmed.
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