MSI 7411 Motherboard Sneak Peek (share your thoughts!) - Page 102

Well, I received a new board for the sixth time. Msi refused to credit the money, but returned a new one.
I installed it and for now it runs well.. BUT!

Now my sub gives me an annoying hum everytime my hdd is active and everytime I drag a window with my mouse. Can anybody advice on what to do with this matter?

Have you made any changes to your entire system other than the replacement motherboard? Even changes to the locations of your speakers; such as where the sub, if powered, is pluggged in? Or a different PSU?

I am assuming you didn't have this problem before the motherboard needed replacement.

Naw, you did a pretty good job summing it up. The problem, I think, is mostly legal. The RIAA and MPAA don't want you to be able to decode DD/DTS (or better) signals from an input stream on a computer because then it would allow you to make PERFECT digital copies of their media without having to "break the law" (by bypassing their encryption).

Although there is always the issue of lag with software decoding, computers these days could probably still software decode fast enough for the sound to sync basically correctly (although a slight lag will inevitably still exist). If you look at my "Inconvenient Truth" thread on this forum related to that problem, you will see that Media Player Classic is actually able to recode a 2 channel PCM stream into 5 channels without a noticable delay in the sound. Decoding an AC3 stream is really no more time/processor intensive then recoding a 2 channel PCM stream, so it is feasible that a software decoder (like ffdshow) could handle it in "real enough" time.

However, the bigger issue here has to do with DirectShow messaging flags that are set by the audio chipset specifying the input signal type. In the case of the Realtek chipset, while it can recognize the type of signal being input via SPDIF, the chip has been designed to "block" that signal from being accessible by software decoders by setting the DirectShow messaging flag to indicate that the signal is just a 2 channel PCM steam (instead of an AC3 stream wrapped in a 2 channel PCM stream). As a result, for most of these sound cards, the only option you are given is to simply pass-through the AC3 signals to the SPDIF-Out. The signal is still technically accessible to your computer (as demonstrated by the popping noises that come out of your speaker if you try to have ffdshow decode the signal in graphedit), but since software decoders use the DirectShow messaging flag in order to determine HOW to decode the signal, the result is that software like ffdshow ends up decoding the signal incorrectly because it thinks it is a standard 2 channel PCM stream instead of AC3.

If you were to design your own software solution that just ASSUMED the SPDIF-In signal was AC3, then you might be able to get something to work. However, then you would have the problem that ALL signals sent to the SPDIF-In would HAVE to be AC3 (and more specifically, would HAVE to be either DD or DTS, but not both).

Again, the technology is already there to do everything we want, but this is mostly a legal issue. My guess is that the music and movie industries are using the DMCA (POS law, btw) to threaten the hardware manufacturers and none of the hardware manufacturers want to risk being sued.


Now, IF you manage to find a hardware component that will support AC3 pass-through (even if only to a software decoder) then you will have accomplished what many of us have been unable to accomplish, and I will say "kudos to you." It has been claimed that these hardware components will allow for software decoding, but I have not been able to confirm this myself:

- Sabrent USB-SND8 8-Channel 3D USB 2.0 External 7.1 Surround Sound Box with Digital Output ($25) I am planning on testing this one out myself and will get back to you if it is successful.

- ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Express x1 Interface Audio/Video Enhancement Combo Card ($239!!!!) I don't have the money to afford one of these (although it does look REALLY cool).

One last thing to note, the D2Audio chip on the Media Live Diva does not have any DD/DTS decoding capabilities. While, from what I have been able to gather from JavaJack, the D2Audio chip has a lot of really cool functionality and capabilities, it seems like it is currently being underutilized by the Media Live Diva. It seems that the Media Live Diva relies mostly on the Realtek chipset for the majority of the handling of sound. The D2Audio chip is really only used to drive the 5.1 amp card (or 7.1 analogue pass-through card), and even then, the D2Audio chip isn't doing ANY additional signal decoding. It is basically just taking the "analogue" signal sent from the computer, applying some "filters" (via equalization, renormalization, etc.), and then passing that signal to the speakers.

The only thing replaced was the motherboard... I have tried unplugging everything and all, but it keeps existing. Even when I'm not in Win7 I hear the humming. I've been searching for a solution and what I think could help is a Loop hole isolator. I will try to get my hands on one of those and see if it's any good. Fingers crossed..
Or do you have some other suggestion?

It is not likely to be a ground loop issue because the sound does not persist. This sounds like one or more components of your HTPC are improperly connected or grounded and you will ultimately have to check how you reinstalled your system. Before you do that though you can check the following:

Unless you are using an indoor antenna, I would disconnect any RF cables used for TV first and listen for a change. If this is the problem your cable is improperly grounded.

If nothing else has been added to (or removed from) your entire A/V system the second simplest test would be to plug every component of your system into ONE surge protector or grounded power strip. If the problem goes away then you may want to check if all your electric outlets you originally used are on the same circuit.

The sound does persist. It only gets worse when I drag a window with my mouse. So it is is basicly always there.

Then you should try what I suggested.

I've had this problem before (on a different system). If memory serves, the problem was just a drivers issue. Try scrubbing out your old drivers (both D2Audio and Realtek) and reinstall the NEWEST drivers (from the manufacturer's website if possible).

The mouse move noise would make me think, FOR SURE, that this is NOT a connection issue OR a ground loop issue. I am fairly sure that your problem is software related.

ok, that worked..
for about 2 reboots.

It seems to auto reinstall the older drivers and after that the sound is back. I don't get why this happens.

I have just placed a fully working 5.1 amp version on eBay UK if anyone is interested.

Yeah, I'm having the same issue. Just bought a really nice Klipsch Sub-woofer. Playing through Media Center, Media Player and VLC gets me no Sub-Woofer. I'm running Windows 7 using D2 Audio Drivers. Doing the 5.1 test makes the subwoofer work. Is there something in these programs that don't want to work with the D2 Audio Driver? Very frustrating...any help would be appreciated.

Do you mind if i ask why you are selling?

Your only a few miles up the road from me and I might know someone interested in a cash on collection basis

PM'd you.

Java Jack

Thanks...that worked perfectly. Sound is great!

I'm using Vista Ultimate but i can't find the Bass Mgmt option in the Enhancement tab. I guess this is a Win 7 feature?

I had to turn off the "Full Range Speaker" option before the Bass Management option appeared. It's hidden until you turn that option off.

Definitely a PITA...

Another board dead. I've had mine since July. Last night, I lost audio and after restart, the D2Audio device wasn't available. This morning, I can't even get the machine to post. Fried.

Same here, waiting for my 3th replacement board. Store doesn't sell them anymore so it has to go through MSI and I guess this will take a couple of weeks (4 weeks now). Replacement or not, I am done with this solution. No more MSI because of their crappy boards (in my opinion) and I have lost my trust in D2Audio because they have a great solution for the HTPC community but it seems that it takes an endless time to market it. I can only guess that they are probably working on new products or so and/or have other interests then a few HTPC enthusiasts.

In the meantime the MSI Media Live Diva seems end-of-life and there is still no other comparable solution.

I cannot watch my movies for 4 weeks now (dramatized ;-) and am sorry that I sold my A/V receiver.

I have 5.1 amp Diva that I have yet to use in earnest. I'm waiting for a deal on SSDs since it will be used in a bedroom and silence is important. At present, I have an AMD 4850e CPU installed but I'm wondering if I should upgrade to one of the new 45W Athlon II units (either dual core or tri-core at most)? IIRC from reading this thread over time, the 4850e is fine for BR playback but had some trouble with HD TV playback due to Hyper Transport speed. My understanding is that the Athlon IIs use faster HT, and I know the Phenoms do. However, since this HTPC will be used for media playback only I'm thinking Phenoms may be overkill.

I just want a low powered CPU that will play HD TV, ripped music and BR without hiccups for a moderate price. Given this, does a Athlon II make the most sense at this time for my Diva?

Eric

I have been using the same processor (4850e) for over 6 months without issue. It plays BBC HD at 1920x1080p without dropping frames...at least with an Nvidea graphics card! Luxe HD and ITV HD are fine also.
It is also fine for Blu ray and HD WMV slideshows.
The design off this board is such that heat from the sound card and any installed graphics card travels upwards in a tower PC and cooks the board electronics unless efficiently exhausted. The tight confines of a desktop case exacerbate this issue as well. I recommend you stick with the 4850e, it runs very cool in my set up that is well ventilated (big fans running slowly) and I have not had any board failures yet.
Anything else, it is more than ample for, in a media only PC.

Thanks for the feedback. I guess the only question is whether I'll get the same results using the IGP?

I am using a desktop case but it is a big one designed specifically for HTPCs (Antec Fusion Remote Max). In the interest of noise reduce I replaced the stock CPU HSF with a Scythe Mini Ninja combined with the cases' 120mm rear fan set to low which is placed to draw heat from the HS. The temp is higher than the stock HSF but essentially silent and stable ~ 45C. I can live with this (hopefully the system components can as well).

Eric

I first tried using the IGP with a lowly single core, the LE1640, though its does have a reasonable 2.6GHz clock. The result was usable...just, any fast motion (sport) tended to catch it out. So I upped it to the 4850e, it seemed the most cost effective solution that was definitely supported. The IGP performed perfectly with this CPU. The reason I'm using a NVidea card is the well documented problem with ATi graphics and BBC HD in the UK.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/home-...seconds-6.html
Still waiting for a fix on that one after at least 8 weeks!

hi everyone,

this is a great forum a lot of infos about the media live diva!
i have these questions that i could not find any answer anywhere.
my cpu is a phenom 9650 and i changed the cpu(original amd)cooler with a rocketfish on from best buy. the problem now is that the speed does not go up over 1000rpm anymore, this is what i did:

first when i install it it did went up to about, i think, 1800rpm, but going into the bios i tried to change the cpu fan speed from "on all time" to auto. by restarting the computer the cpu fan did not start at all so i changed back to "on all the time" and it works but only shows 1000rpm where before was going up to 1800rpn or so if i remember correctly , i tried a different cpu cooler(silent flux and the original amd one) and it does the same = slow speed resulting that the cpu runs even idling at about 50 celsius.
anyone any idea?

my second question is that i cannot update the bios in any ways tried amd live witch it crashes every time i try to run it?

please if you have seen something like that i would appreciate your advice and ready to try your suggestions

since the good things are always in a number of three here is my third question:

i have a video card 1gig ddr3 witch it runs very good and i was thinking since this video card does the NB job(correct me if i am wrong) i want to disable the NB from the bios to eliminate the heat source. now i thought i did that but the heat sink(NB) still hot. am i doing something wrong? is the bios update that doesn't work or what?

thank you in advance for your inputs

if i posted in the wrong area please admin move it.


mirceag

I will have to confirm when I get home from my business trip, but it now looks like the 3rd MSI board has died YET AGAIN. My daughter was watching a movie and heard a thump sound, followed by silence. She called me and asked what to do, I suggested rebooting the PC. When she tried the damn thing will not post again. Deader than a doornail just like the last one.

This sounds way to familiar, I am sick of this board letting me down.

My board just died, wouldn't boot, been alright for 6 months. What a load of rubbish. Glad I reverted to an A/V receiver some time ago. Will sell the replacement on, probably at a considerable loss. Glad to be out of it, lousy support from MSI, had an outstanding request to MSI UK for the proper sound card bracket for the best part of the 6 months this board decided to work, never saw it. Thankfully my RMA is via the retailer.
My limited excursion into AMD/ATi's world is now over and I will revert to the Intel/nVidia world where things do tend to work, and for longer.

Things work just fine in the AMD/ATi world. It's clearly the MSI world that's the issue here...

I'm not going to get into a slanging match, but I think it's time ATi fixed this issue, or at least gave an estimate for a fix for this issue which is now 3 months old....!. Their complete lack of communication is appalling. This is not off topic as this board is affected by this problem.
http://forums.amd.com/game/messagevi...VIEWTMP=Linear

OK, I'm probably going to regret this but I'm going to buy a diva board as it is the only thing available in its class but I have a couple of questions first.

I fancy an Athlon X2 250 cpu, dual core 3.0GHz 65W TDP, which I presume is fine for Windows 7 MC with a couple of tuners and 1 xbox360 extender. It will also run a samba share so other computers can store data on its internal drives.

Do the latest boards come with a bios that will boot with that cpu? I don't want to buy another cpu just to upgrade the bios and I don't know anyone who has an amd cpu. I will be buying the board from www.ebuyer.com in the UK as I cannot find anywhere else that sells it.

Is DDR3 memory ok with this combination? It seems the same price as DDR2 so seems sensible to get 4GB of 1366 RAM. Thanks