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My first impressions of the Epson HC720 vs the JVC DLA-G11

post #1 of 15
3/6/08 at 5:21am
Thread Starter 
I received my Epson HC720 yesterday morning from Visual Apex and had it installed within 2 hours. I've had my JVC DLA-G11 for 7 1/2 years and it has served me very well (albeit very loudly even in the hush box). I am using a Stewart 123" GreyHawk screen in a 100% light controlled bat cave.

After watching about 8 hours of HD DVD, SD DVD, HDTV, and XBox 360 last night I will have to say that I have very mixed feelings about the new projector. This was expected as I would have really preferred to upgrade to a 1080P LCOS projector, but I didn't have the budget available (unless I also entered into negotiations with my wife regarding new granite counter tops and appliances for the kitchen).

I have done some basic image/picture settings but I haven't delved into a major calibration.

First the good news:

* The convergence looks very good. Less than 1 pixel off and no hues/color casts on the screen.
* It is SO MUCH quieter than the old JVC DLA-G11.
* Even in Theater Black 1 (or 2 even) it produces plenty of light for DVDs, Xbox, HDTV even with the 123" 0.9 GreyHawk screen.
* HDTV and XBox 360 look fantastic

The bad news:
* DVD movies look rather poor compared to the DLA-G11. They lack the smooth "Filmlike" quality and the screen door effect is noticeable from our seating location (13 1/2 ft). I would have preferred to move the seating up a foot or so but it looks like I may have to move the seats back a foot or two.
* The colors also don't look nearly as natural as the with the DLA-G11. It looks like you're watching a computer monitor.
* Without any input from me, my wife noticed and commented on how much better the old projector looked with DVDs. Normally she can't even tell whether she's watching the HD or SD version of the cable channel so that's a bad sign.

Hopefully our memory of the old projector will fade quickly while I build up my "toy fund" for the inevitable upgrade to a 1080P LCOS projector.

Doug
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post #2 of 15
3/6/08 at 6:28am
You must really be accustomed to the picture from LCOS. It's hard to believe an 8 year old digital projector would be better than a new one, even a low priced one. I think the transition for you would have been smoother with a DLP. Not that it looks like a LCOS, just that it comes closer than an LCD. But LCOS projectors are dropping rapidly (as are other types as well). You'll probably have one soon.

Jim
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post #3 of 15
3/6/08 at 6:54am
Thread Starter 
The main reason that I opted for an LCD projector over a (lower cost) 720P DLP projector is the general lack of vertical lens shift and overall placement inflexibility with DLP.

The only area I would say the old JVC was clearly better than the new Epson is "filmlike smoothness". In every other area the new projector is as good or better.

The sort of good news is that my wife actually noticed the 'change' and she may be inclined to support the upgrade to 1080P LCOS without opening the kitchen granite/appliances/cabinets discussion.

Doug
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post #4 of 15
3/6/08 at 6:59am
Give the 720 about 100 to break in. I experienced the same feeling you are and was honestly amazed by the PQ change at around the 85 hour mark. It was literally night and day difference.
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post #5 of 15
3/6/08 at 7:49am
Break in periods with video tech? Never heard of such a thing. Are you sure you didn't just get used to the image or is there actual data to support video break in?

I'm not trying to be antogonistic, I'm honestly curious.
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post #6 of 15
3/6/08 at 7:55am
Did you calibrate it?
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post #7 of 15
3/6/08 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic_BomB View Post

Break in periods with video tech? Never heard of such a thing. Are you sure you didn't just get used to the image or is there actual data to support video break in?

I'm not trying to be antogonistic, I'm honestly curious.


I should be more clear. Its not really the PJ itself that requires the break in period, its the bulb. Which in turn has a dramatic effect on the quality of the projected image.
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post #8 of 15
3/6/08 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

I should be more clear. Its not really the PJ itself that requires the break in period, its the bulb. Which in turn has a dramatic effect on the quality of the projected image.

I'm still confused how that makes a difference. All the bulb can do AFAIK is get brighter, dimmer, or maybe change color slightly?
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post #9 of 15
3/6/08 at 8:46am
There's absolutely no question that many lamps require a break-in period to reach their stable brightness and color temperature levels. Many people say you should not calibrate your TV or projector until you've used it for a hundred hours or so. Now how much of a difference is this going to make for Onewolf's projector? I have no idea, but I don't think he'll be fully satisfied. Maybe after some form of calibration is done on it, he'll be happier.

Jim
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post #10 of 15
3/6/08 at 9:03am
I can say without any doubt that the difference in PQ on my very own HC720 was dramatic at around the 85 hour mark. Even my wife asked me what the hell I did to the projector.
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post #11 of 15
3/6/08 at 9:06am
Hi Onewolf, one thing to consider is also your source (since your projector has changed). I have an Epson 720 and I had similar issues until I got a PS3 (used as an upscalar for DVD movies). It has made a noticeable difference in the picture quality from my previous 480p source. I have a little bit of control over the smoothness through PS3 controls.

Did you consider getting a Panasonic AX-200? From what I read on this forum, it has the film-like smoothness that folks prefer.

Something else that is interesting to me. The first Epson 720 I received had smoother, soft PQ like what you are desiring. Unfortunately, it also made Dish HD look average, soft. The unit I exchanged it with makes HD look sharper, but I now see a little more grain, pixels on SD and films (although they look much sharper). I have also observed in my specific case that an ideal viewing distance with a 100" 16:9 screen is in the 13' range, anything shorter, and you can see some form of artifacts (for people with normal eyesight). Basically, it is also a quality control issue with these projectors, some of them appear to have been factory caliberated differently. As suggested by other folks, it might help to try and adjust settings to suit your viewing preferences.

I am still considering a 1080p, as my viewing distance is approx 11-12'
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post #12 of 15
3/6/08 at 12:09pm
Older technology is not always inferior. CRT is a good example.

JVC's g series use xenon bulbs, which are known for accurate colors. Also, g-series resolution is 1365 x 1050 using high fill-factor D-ila panels that present a pixel-free image at 3-5 feet from the screen.

The only areas of improvement I would expect would be:

digital inputs
scaling (g10 scaling sucks overall)
contrast
quieter (g10 is loud)


Pick your poison. The panny ax200 will definitely give you a pixel free image.
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post #13 of 15
3/8/08 at 7:43am
Thread Starter 
I did consider the Panny AX200 however it seemed to me that other than the AX200 being far superior with regards to SDE, the HC720 was superior in all other areas, and the HC720 costs less, you get a free replacement bulb, and it seems like some people have experienced issues with the AX200.

Unfortunately I couldn't find any stores in this area that have any of the projectors setup that I was interested in while trying to decide which technology/model to choose. They all had the Optoma HD-80 or Sony vw-60 setup shooting onto what I consider very small screens (92"-96"). One guy at a custom home theater place said that Sony offers large "payola" to display the Sony projectors.

I have one more "Con" to add to the HC720 after watching three HD DVDs last night. I found the noise/sound from the auto Iris to be very annoying during quiet passages of movies. The projector is mounted on the ceiling about 6' away from the primary seating location. I haven't decided yet whether to leave it on or turn it off. I get noticeably better black levels with the Iris enabled, but it sounds like water dripping into a aluminum pan. Aargh. But when the auto iris is disabled I'm watching a movie with soft dialog I am really enjoying how quiet the new projector is compared to the vacuum cleaner sounding old JVC DLA-G11.

Doug
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post #14 of 15
3/8/08 at 3:18pm
Mine makes a clunking noise with the iris turned on. So I leave it off and I think it looks fine that way. I think I have the wrong screen for it because I am getting hot spots where the screen looks too shiny in some white areas
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post #15 of 15
3/8/08 at 3:21pm
My HC720's iris makes a sound that I would describe as ticking/tapping. It isn't overly loud, but can be distracting in quiet movie scenes.
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