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Horrible LCD in Moneual MonCaso 832 case

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
Does anyone have this case? Maybe I am missing something. I tried different iMON software versions but neither has backlight control.

It looks like LCD display is just blue bright annoying rectangle. Totally useless. Nothing can be seen on it unless you are one foot close. If I don't find a solution to lower backlight and increase contrast I will return the case. I doubt it can be fixed though. Seems to be very stupidly designed LCD display. Completely incapable of displaying any information in home theatre environment. Blue bright distracting box.

I see now how stupid it is to buy something without reading reviews. Could not find any for this case. When I bought it I assumed the display would be the same as Silverstone GD-01 or MFP51 – bright text on dark. It was wrong and it seems that no one else uses this type of LCD.

Will be pity to return the case though. It’s a very build case in every other aspect. Attractive look, fits perfectly to Yamaha receiver. I put in it Xeon E3110, Abit IP35 Pro, MSI heat pipe 8800GT, 4 GB DDR800 CAS 4 RAM, 2 WD AAKS HDDs, 500 and 750 GB. It stays very quiet and stable. GPU temperature (most critical considering airflow in this case) doesn’t rise above 58C under load.

Maybe to solder a resistor somewhere to lower backlight power? I asked Soundgraph and Moneual support, waiting for an answer.

And if I return it there isn’t much to buy. Silver Zalman HD160 Plus is out of stock everywhere. Not much else I would like. I covered that in previous thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=13203188

Check attached pictures.

1 and 4 - This is how it looks from 5 feet at the same angle if it was on bottom TV stand shelf and I was sitting on sofa. Note that the room is lit brighter than it would be when watching LCD TV. More likely user will be able to read as much information from LCD as seen here

2 and 3 - One and a half foot close. LCD shows “Winamp [Stop]” on 2. Pretty clear, eh?
LCD Contrast in IMON manager doesn’t help. Bold fonts improve a little – picture 3. But, I’m going to be starring at it from 2 feet distance. And it’s just way too bright. Power button is bright as well.


The black dots that are supposed to compose symbols are too small. Combined with too bright crazy backlight nothing can be read. Only big solid icons on the left side are distinguishable which are pretty much useless. There is no way to adjust LCD brightness.
That "WinAmp [Stop]" text on LCD is barely visible at 3 feet distance.
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post #2 of 47
I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you but I am also considering purchasing this case and have been surprised by the lack of reviews. The 932 got decent reviews all over the net but I guess nobody bothered to review the 832. I was going to let that slide and give the case a shot but first I'd like to find out if your LCD problem is an isolated incident or just poor design.

Searching AVS I had come across some complaints that long CD-ROMs won't fit in the 932, but no complaints at all about the 832. Please update this thread when (if?) you hear back from Moncaso support. Thanks.
post #3 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

I guess nobody bothered to review the 832.

I would imagine that someone tried to review it but then decided not to publish review because its conclusion would be too unkindly.

This LCD is really piece of crap and it's not an issue of my particular unit. If you take a look at Moncaso 832 photos on different shopping sites you will see that none of them show this LCD displaying anything useful - it's not designed for that. Even moneual.com exhibits empty LCD and I guess they had to illuminate the case with naval searchlight so the crazy LCD brightness would not be noticeable.

I got the response from Moneual

"Thank you for choosing our products.
Unfortunately we don't have solution for that so far.
it is true that the LED is too bright.
So we try to solve this problem in next model."

I wonder why they need to try when competitors have the solution (other LCD type) since long time ago.

But, putting LCD aside this case doesn't have any other issues when used with low heat components. CPU airflow is good. Powerful video cards may have cooling problems, but my 8800GT works perfectly fine.
And it has a lot of space for CD-ROM. I have 172 mm long ASUS but I'm sure 185 mm LG Blue-Ray will fit well even with longer video card than mine. You would have to route GPU power cable under the CD-ROM and the video has to be in 6th slot on motherboard - this way it will go just in between ODD and HDD cages.

I actually would keep it if I'm able to replace the LCD. Zalman 160 Plus silver can't be bought in USA right now and PCAlchemy don't even have any ETA from Zalman.

I probably could buy Silverstone MFP 51 front panel and take LCD from there. It has the same position of IR sensor. I will lose case buttons and volume knob in this case because Silverstone doesn't have connectors for them.
I wonder if I can connect two iMON LCDs to the same PC. One for use as LCD and IR sensor and another one (Moneual) hidden inside case just so buttons work. Most likely this will confuse iMON software.

Another choice is to buy different type of LCD like Matrix Orbital GX Typhoon, detach IR sensor from iMon board, solder wires to it and stick to IR window in front of Matrix Orbital board, then bury Moneual LCD deeply inside. I know, sounds like too much fuss.

What do you think? Does anyone have Matrix Orbital GX Typhoon? Could you measure dimensions of its LCD window?
post #4 of 47
Thread Starter 
I just put this case in place where it was intended to be in order to see if I can accommodate to the LCD. No way. It takes several seconds to adjust eyes to LCD brightness after watching TV and then still nothing can be seen.

The first photo is taken when room light was a little bright for watching TV. I typically lower it to the level shown on the second photo. Also on second photo I turned off TV ambilight.

Check the reflections on carpet floor. It's a freaking projector. How could designers expect people tolerate that?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2258/...2845f60d_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2179/...52fb660b_o.jpg
post #5 of 47
it would work insde a nice gaming Case as a UV eluminator...hehe
jk

Id just go to matrix orbital and buy a nice Massive VFD display and replace it...

Ive done the Mod on my LC14-S case, with a 4x20 VFD

I cant remember the name , but theres a compnay that sells very wide OLED's & VFD's(4x40 wide)..all LCD's are an eye sore in a HTPC.
post #6 of 47
Thread Starter 
shayking, thank you for the input. Although GX Typhoon LCD would probaby be fun, the photos I saw show that it may have too bright backlight as well. Not much reviews either. Scary to pay $100 with a good chance to waste time and money again.

What VFD have you bought? Is it better or does it have larger symbols than original LC16?
It looks like Moncaso LCD window is a bit wider. COuld not find any OLED displays except the one for Omaura and it's too small.

I thought maybe to buy this thing, VL System LIS MCE. Should fit my window just fine, I believe. It's 20x2 and it seems to have larger charachters than iMON VFDs do. And it is probably bigger than most of Matrix Orbital products. HD44780 compatible.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/52..._-_Silver.html

Does anyone have it? Is it Vista compatible?
post #7 of 47
miksh that second set of pictures was worth 1000 reviews. I can't believe the amount of light that LCD is putting out plus the reflections off your stand and the spotlight on the floor... geez.

It looks so ridiculous that I would have without a doubt said that your case was somehow defective until you also posted the reply from Moncaso support. Their answer is extremely disappointing and I can't believe that nobody would have spread this all over the net previously to warn others. I must thank you for doing just that.

At least now I know not to buy one but unfortunately the Moncaso was always one of my favorite cases aesthetically and with the huge price drop it really wasn't a bad value. Let us know if you manage to replace the LCD or swap in a VFD, as I may still consider the case depending on how much trouble that operation causes you.
post #8 of 47
Holy cow! that's udderly ridiculous. I bet some designer thought it'd be uber cool to put in the brightest LCD...and I'm also sure the same designer has never spent time watching any movie other than super bright anime and pixar films.
post #9 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

I can't believe that nobody would have spread this all over the net previously to warn others.

I am surprised with that either. I think all interested people should know.
I will type "Moncaso 832 review" so it would be easier for search engines to come up with this page when people are trying to find Moncaso 832 review. This thread is already on second place in google when searching this string. Moncaso 832P review, Moncaso 832B and original manufacturer - Dign Lab also should be mentioned.

I put some pictures with comments on flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2460443...7604098981308/
and I'm going to write a real review when all this is finished. Not sure where to post it. Of course, here. On newegg, maybe on LiveJournal.

Right now I have ordered VL System LIS MCE for $60 that I mentioned earlier. Seems to be one of very few choices. Things like GX Typhoon won't work because they also have IR sensor and MS doesn't tolerate two sensors in one system and I have to keep existing LCD connected. Plus GX Typhoon seems to be too bright as well.

In theory it looks like all I will have to do is unsolder IR sensor from Moncaso LCD, solder wires to it, bury Moncaso LCD inside the case, stick IR sensor to IR window and screw VL System in place of Moncaso LCD. If I'm lucky even the screw holes will fit because Moncaso LCD is also probably based on OEM board that can be put in 5.25" bay just like VL System.

Will see if it's true. Will keep you posted.

I should have embedded pictures in the body of posting before, I just missed that option. I think this picture should be at hand as a good example of what should be avoided when designing or buying HTPC case.

post #10 of 47
This is really the only thing standing between me and this case. Take a look at the Soundgraph page here:
http://www.soundgraph.com/Eng_/Produ...=1&leftMenu=43

Apparently, and I have no idea why, all of the sub-$350 HTPC cases with LCD use this stupid blue negative LCD, when they should have used the more legible white negative LCD, which of course is pictured, because it's just way better.

The much lauded Antec Fusion Black uses this LCD too, and for whatever reason, some users can't even use the official Soundgraph drivers, so not only do they have a bright blue rectangle, but it's severely crippled too.

If you do a search on the many unhappy Antec users out there, many have contacted Antec to request a replacement. And, many have found a slight imrovement to the later batches.

A few other cases I'm looking at include OrigenAE x11, Silverstone LC16-MR, and the Zalman HD135. I think the Zalman looks the best of those three, but I guess it will take more work to make everything uber-quiet. Keep this thread updated if you could...
post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by floepie View Post

A few other cases I'm looking at include OrigenAE x11, Silverstone LC17-MR, and the Zalman HD135. I think the Zalman looks the best of those three, but I guess it will take more work to make everything uber-quiet. Keep this thread updated if you could...

Omaura TF8 + OLED kit is under $350 and far better than those choices.
post #12 of 47
What's "far" better about it? Cooling isn't improved compared to the existing field of HTPC cases. It is also significantly shorter than those I mentioned. Furthermore, that case, while pretty, is a bit too designer with its odd square feet and two-tone matte/glossy black surface. I don't think it fits in well with high end audio gear.
post #13 of 47
Thanks for posting this review. I am now so disappointed. I've been trying to decide on a case for several months now, and nothing just seems to be to my liking. I found this case on newegg, looked at the features and pics, and was suddenly stuck with a sense of "this is the perfect design". I started looking to see if anyone had any luck with linux drivers for the lcd/buttons when I found this thread and my hopes just fell apart.

So disappointing to see one terrible feature absolutely kill an otherwise spectacular product.
post #14 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by floepie View Post

Apparently, and I have no idea why, all of the sub-$350 HTPC cases with LCD use this stupid blue negative LCD, when they should have used the more legible white negative LCD, which of course is pictured, because it's just way better.

Actually, looking at those photos I think this one is using the positive blue, not negative blue. It's a bright background with dark letters.
post #15 of 47
Yes, that's right. All the others, including the Zalmans, Antecs use the negative blue LCD. I think the Moncaso has the worst of all possible combinations for this LCD. I wonder if they can easily be replaced? I just wonder what they were thinking?
post #16 of 47
Thread Starter 


To me this looks how it is supposed to be. Replaced the LCD with VL system LIS MCE as I planned. VL system board is smaller than Moncaso LCD board so I had to superglue additional plastic parts as mountings. Also LIS consists of two boards and it's thicker than Moncaso LCD board so I had to get screw extenders (nipples they are called?). Other than that it mostly went as expected.

I attach additional pictures that explain the process. Don't have time now, can tell details later. Also pictures of final case assemly.

Overall I'm very pleased with the new VFD. Totally dark background, very good view angles, adjustable brightness. VL system software is good enough for me. Works with Vista MCE. LCD Smartie also works but I haven't used it much.

It's not that big of course. Standard VFD symbol size - 2.4 x 4.7 mm. I can read it from ~6 feet where I'm sitting but I have to look carefully. I think I have ~-85-90% vision so it may be better for others.

Anyway, it's good enough. Although I would have bought Zalman 160 Plus silver if it was available. Had to spend too much time on modifications of this Moncaso case.
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post #17 of 47
Thread Starter 
more case pictures
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post #18 of 47
Wow Miksh, job well done!

Your latest pictures show exactly what I would have assumed the Moncaso would look like from the factory. One half of me still thinks the Moncaso is the best looking HTPC case out there, and performing this LCD swap would be worth it in the end, but the other half of me is refusing to support such blatantly poor design in the first place. I'm interested in the OLED from Omaura but I honestly just don't care for the case design as much. Like
floepie, I don't think it fits in with my A/V gear.

floepie,
Are you sure that most or "all" of the competitive cases on the market use the positive blue LCD like Moncaso's? I'm just surprised that nobody has ever raised that point before. Are the other cases lightbulb substitutes like this one or are they just hard to read? Maybe that's the difference? It seems so obvious from that iMon site you linked to that negative white is the correct choice for this application, I can't believe such expensive cases wouldn't get that piece of the design right.

Well, hopefully this thread will serve to educate more consumers, as we were obviously failed by the mainstream review sites out there. Heck I may even call the manufacturer before I purchase my HTPC case just to verify the make/model/type of LCD they're using. This whole discovery has really put me off.
post #19 of 47
Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to mention that as I understand it nMediaPC uses the L.I.S. MCE VFD that Miksh was so happy with, and their cases are generally priced very well compared to the competition.

If you go here:
http://www.nmediapc.com/support_280VFD.htm
they're talking about the features of their VFD module and at the bottom there is this sentence:
"L.I.S MCE indicator displays software information of OS/ Network/ Direct X"

Anyways, I used to really like their HTPC500BAR which is reasonably priced around $160, but it's not quite as classy as the Moncaso or competitors. I had even almost bought this case until stumbling into the heavily discounted Moncaso. One thing that I liked is that it comes with a Vista MCE compatible IR receiver and remote, as well as a mounting tray for your XP MCE IR reciever in case (like me) you already have XP MCE and a remote. I like that flexibility so that I can choose whether or not to upgrade my OS down the line and already have the IR hardware available.

Unfortunately it seems like now they're out of stock everywhere? Directron doesn't have the black or silver model, Newegg only has the silver model left, hmm... something tells me maybe they're discontinued? Blah, back to square one.
post #20 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magius View Post

Wow Miksh, job well done!

floepie,
Are you sure that most or "all" of the competitive cases on the market use the positive blue LCD like Moncaso's? I'm just surprised that nobody has ever raised that point before. Are the other cases lightbulb substitutes like this one or are they just hard to read? Maybe that's the difference? It seems so obvious from that iMon site you linked to that negative white is the correct choice for this application, I can't believe such expensive cases wouldn't get that piece of the design right.

No, this is the only case I've seen that has the positive blue. All others it seems have the negative blue. Soundgraph must have run a major blue light special for the case designers to have been wooed that easily.

I wonder how much it would be and how easy it would be to simply drop in a negative white display from Soundgraph?
post #21 of 47
Can anyone tell me if this case more resembles the Zalman HD135 with its lack of rear fans or the Zalman HD160 which provides 2 80mm rear fans and a possible 92mm fan beneath the HDD rack. I haven't seen any photos of the inside of this case, and curiously, Moneaul doesn't show you any shots of it from the rear.

Magius, why do you say this case is heavily discounted? I show best price appox $280 or so, which I thought has been pretty steady.
post #22 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:


I wonder how much it would be and how easy it would be to simply drop in a negative white display from Soundgraph?

I actually considered that. This would be difficult if you want everything working including case buttons/volume knob. I contacted Soundgraph support about that. They told me they just ship LCDs, knobs, etc to OUE factories and the factories build the final product. In my case they could not offer me anything but to contact Moneual which I also did.

The closest OEM product that may fit is Thermaltake DH101 - it has the same case button configuration. But I guess Thermaltake is better be contacted in order to obtain iMON separately. I doubt they will bother with shipping just iMON. Plus I don't know the size of their PCB board and the location of IR sensor - some customization may be required.

Silverstone MFP-51 is the closest separate product with price ~$100. But if you use this you will lose case buttons/volume knob because Silverstone doesn't have connectors for them. Also Silverstone's PCB on which LCD is residing must be smaller than the one from Moncaso because FPM51 is 5.25" bay device, same as VL system so you probably will have to do what I did - extend its mounting.
iMON Ultra bay has different buttons so they won't work in Moncaso and its IR sensor is on the left side. PCB board will have to be shifted. Not sure if there will be room for that.
Also both Silverstone MFP-51 and Silverstone GD01 case seem to have LCD with brighter background than iMON Ultra bay and Zalman HD160 Plus. Don't know if their LCD is good enough for a dark room.

I also considered Matrix Orbital GX Typhoon LCD but it seems to be too bright on pictures.
Could not find any better solution than what I did. Omaura OLED kit should be better but where would I buy it?

Quote:


Can anyone tell me if this case more resembles the Zalman HD135 with its lack of rear fans

You can install two 60mm exhaust fans on the back side above motherboard I/O ports.
The case comes with 1 80 mm intake fan located at the bottom panel, left front corner, under HDD cage. There is a place for the same fan in the right corner too.
I installed all these fans and also attached 1 intake fan to the left side, close to the back. There is a vent but no mounting for fan, I just stuck it with electrical tape. This allowed to lower video core temperature from ~71 to 64 deg C under heavy load.

This case doesn't allow to install powerful exhaust fan system. However my setup is pretty quiet. I put 2 SilenX 60x25 exhaust fans to the back and they are silent at full speed. It does not overheat with components I selected. I overclocked Xeon E3110 to 3.6 Ghz, and MSI 8800 GT is factory overclocked. I guess even 71 C core temp would not kill it but you may have a problem cooling 8800 Ultra in this case.

The most noisiest things in my setup are hard drives (even at idle). Two Caviar SE 16 AAKS which I believe are considered rather quiet. The thing is they are located just beside air vents. I didn't try Hitachi tool to make them quieter (switching AAS or AAM?) because the noise actually is not that loud and it doesn't bother from 6 feet at all.

You can see the internals of the case on this picture from newegg. Even back fan vents are visible but under very sharp angle.
http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggIma...280-009-13.jpg
I can post more of my pictures later in the evening if anybody is interested.
post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by floepie View Post

Magius, why do you say this case is heavily discounted? I show best price appox $280 or so, which I thought has been pretty steady.

The only reason I say that is because this case used to sell for something like $500 when I first stumbled across it a year or two ago. I don't know when they lowered the price but I stumbled into the case again a few months ago and it costs less than $300 now. I believe you can now get the 982 version with the LCD for about the same price as what the 832 used to cost.

micksh,
It sounds like you did a lot of research regarding swapping out the LCD. I was just assuming the LCD/VFD was a standalone device and anything would work but from your post it appears that the volume knob and case buttons somehow interoperate with it? And the LIS MCE VFD that you bought somehow allows all of this to work like they would have originally? I'm still considering getting this case and doing the VFD swap so if you could elaborate on this aspect of hooking up the buttons and knob I'd appreciate it.

Thanks a lot!
post #24 of 47
Thread Starter 
iMON LCD/VFD is not standalone. Case buttons/volume knob don't have their own USB or other connection. They are connected to LCD PCB board only, they won't work without LCD.
And Moneual case buttons won't work with iMON Ultra bay, for example, because the buttons and their connectors on LCD PCB are different.
IR sensor is also the part of iMON. All these 3 things - LCD, IR sensor, buttons/knob have a single USB cable.

So there are two choices if you want to replace LCD while keeping buttons work: Either to find another iMON LCD that has exactly the same button configuration or to find LCD/VFD without IR from another company (to avoid conflict of 2 iMON devices) and keep the original Moncaso iMON inside the case connected through USB to MB, which is what I did.

If you have a look at "LIS and original LCD.jpg" that I attached last night you will see on the right from VL system board there is a bar wrapped around with black electrical tape. This is the original LCD that came with Moncaso case. It's still connected and I use it for everything except the LCD itself. "LIS mounted.jpg" shows case button connectors below VL system VFD board. These are to be connected to iMON.
And VL System LIS is used for VFD only. It has nothing to do with iMON stuff and it has its own software. Any non-Soundgraph VFD/LCD/OLED would work as long as they fit the case. Note the LCD window dimensions ~ 28 x 112 mm. LIS VFD is about 28 x 108 (of course character matrix is smaller).

I had to wrap original iMON LCD very carefully so none of those crazy lights come from it. It has to be turned on all the time. If I turn its backlight off through iMON software the case buttons won't work and it will turn on again after next system start.
When I put everything together inside the case I had to place wrapped iMON between ODD and right HDD cage, perpendicular to front panel. It would not fit behind LIS because of ODD cage, LIS is thick and there isn't enough room because of ODD support rails. Still I was able to connect everything.

Also note that despite the fact that LIS is an internal 5.25" bay device for some unknown reasons it is shipped with only external USB cable.
I didn't want to route the USB cable outside the case so I found an old USB bracket, broke it, extracted USB jacks from it and thus connected LIS to internal USB on MB. The combined cable is quite long at least 3 feet, I think) but I was able to mostly stuff it in between of ODD and card reader.

Another thing is it was difficult to darken power button. The button is located on small PCB and it was screwed to the case so strongly that screws could be broken with driver. I guess the most thing that manufacturer was afraid of is that someone trying to spoil their "uber-cool" button-flashlight design so they applied all forces to protect it from modders. But finally I unscrewed it and wrapped LEDs with dark blue tape.

Good luck!
post #25 of 47
wow Micksh, thanks for clarifying.

Honestly it's starting to sound like too much trouble to bother for me. It's a shame, because I really like the case, but I don't want to have to mess with all this modification just to get the case to a state that it should have come in from the factory.

Plus I tend to be on the OCD side so having a mess of thrown together parts in my case would probably eventually drive me crazy.

Thanks again though for all of the information.
post #26 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by floepie View Post

What's "far" better about it? Cooling isn't improved compared to the existing field of HTPC cases. It is also significantly shorter than those I mentioned. Furthermore, that case, while pretty, is a bit too designer with its odd square feet and two-tone matte/glossy black surface. I don't think it fits in well with high end audio gear.



Guess you never saw anything from Meridian. If anything, The Omaura cases blend in better than most "HTPC" cases. Take a look around, if it's not silver, it's matte/glossy black...
post #27 of 47
I bought one of the Moncaso 832's. The screen is ridiculously bright. Rather than replace the display I was thinking of trying to find some tinted film to apply to it.
post #28 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rein View Post



Guess you never saw anything from Meridian. If anything, The Omaura cases blend in better than most "HTPC" cases. Take a look around, if it's not silver, it's matte/glossy black...

The Omaura cases are very sharp indeed and have a very high end look. But, they certainly do not blend well with other AV gear. That's the problem with such beautiful cases. They all scream their own unique design, almost begging for the buyer to purchase all equipment in the rack to be manufactured by the same designer/company.

For every one AV piece that looks remotely similar to the Omaura, I could pick out 10 mainstream-to-high-end AV pieces that appear more similar to one of the Zalmans, OrigenAE's, or this case (aside from that bright LCD).
post #29 of 47
Thanks for the followup on all the work you did to deal with this. One thing I didn't notice was how much you paid for the extra LCD.

Its a shame about this case, because I was really liking the design. However, replacing the LCD on top of the $300 for the case was really more than I could justify (starting to edge closer to the one with the 7" touchscreen).

I started looking around and found the Thermaltake DH-101. I liked that case a lot. Not quite as much as the MonCaso. I prefer the MonCasos design, that that fact that it has the card reader built in. However, the DH-101 is a reasonably close second. From the photos, it appears to use the negative white LCD. And for only $200 it seemed good enough for me. I should have it by Tuesday or Wednesday.
post #30 of 47
I just picked up the Thermaltake DH101 but have not had a chance to use it yet.

I thought I would point out an "error" in the manufacturer specs. I was very pleased to see that I can actually get up to 3 MORE 3.5" SATA drives in this case. The specs mention the separate removable cage that can mount up to (3) 3.5" drives but only mention the (1) 5.25" bay that is occupied by the optical drive on the upper right.

This mounting for the optical drive is actually part of a 3-Bay 5.25" cage assembly. The lower 2 spaces however are covered over by the solid case front. So they cannot be used for more optical drives or something requiring external access. This potential extra mounting space is NOT mentioned anywhere on Thermaltake's site.

However, with a little creativity, you can easily use the bottom of this cage for up to 3 extra hard drives.

Another point not mentioned in the specs is that the entire case front can actually FLIP DOWN!!. In order to this, you need to have the top cover of the case slid open so that you can access a couple of release tabs. This exposes the drive space under the optical drive bay.

I plan on putting in a hot-swap SATA backplane in this spot that will provide 3 removable 3.5" drive trays in the 2-UP 5.25" space.
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